Bug#765839: task-desktop: installs a non-working dekstop environment on all but 2 archs
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 02:45:11AM +0200, Christoph Anton Mitterer wrote: On Wed, 2014-10-22 at 01:28 +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote: Then you have no clue about what that means. What exactly do yo refer to? Not providing a default DE? I rather thought about a solution like the one the EU enforced on Microsoft with the browser selector: The interactive debian installation could just present a list of DE's that are commonly agreed to work in most cases for the current platform. E.g. majors like GNOME, KDE, LXDE, MATE, XFCE, perhaps also Cinnamon. And one could even make a sub menu like other desktop environments where one could select the rarer choices (bare X+twm, and so on). That lists could every time be randomised and no pre-selection being made. So you want to make it even harder for new users to work out how/what to install with Debian. Also, do you have any idea of what a mess this would also make of our installation media? Many/most users expect us to give them a system that will work without massive sets of questions and user tuning needed. That's what the various teams involved try to achieve. Anyway, this is thoroughly OT for a bug report. (sorry, Joey). Redirecting to -devel if you feel the need to continue... -- Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.st...@einval.com Support the Campaign for Audiovisual Free Expression: http://www.eff.org/cafe/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#765839: task-desktop: installs a non-working dekstop environment on all but 2 archs
Adam Borowski wrote: * powerpc in qemu (using an existing system on real metal, d-i on qemu) What specific real metal did you use to test gnome on powerpc? -- see shy jo signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Bug#765839: task-desktop: installs a non-working dekstop environment on all but 2 archs
On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 04:37:42PM -0400, Joey Hess wrote: Adam Borowski wrote: * powerpc in qemu (using an existing system on real metal, d-i on qemu) What specific real metal did you use to test gnome on powerpc? The parenthesis is not indented, it applies to both bullet points. I did not test armhf on qemu (as I own multiple pieces of real metal), and did not test powerpc outside qemu as I have no access to such a physical machine. Sorry if I was unclear. -- // If you believe in so-called intellectual property, please immediately // cease using counterfeit alphabets. Instead, contact the nearest temple // of Amon, whose priests will provide you with scribal services for all // your writing needs, for Reasonable and Non-Discriminatory prices. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#765839: task-desktop: installs a non-working dekstop environment on all but 2 archs
Hey. Shouldn't one change then the default rather to something that's actually working on ALL our platforms,... and not making special exceptions for GNOME all the way (or would any other software in Debian be allowed to get that default-status, if it only supports a fraction of systems (exim for default-mta, or that like)? Or is i386/amd64 in any way special (apart from the number of its users)? I still think, there shoudln't be a default DE at all. Cheers, Chris. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
Bug#765839: task-desktop: installs a non-working dekstop environment on all but 2 archs
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 02:15:58AM +0200, Christoph Anton Mitterer wrote: Hey. Shouldn't one change then the default rather to something that's actually working on ALL our platforms,... and not making special exceptions for GNOME all the way (or would any other software in Debian be allowed to get that default-status, if it only supports a fraction of systems (exim for default-mta, or that like)? Or is i386/amd64 in any way special (apart from the number of its users)? I still think, there shoudln't be a default DE at all. Then you have no clue about what that means. -- Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.st...@einval.com sladen I actually stayed in a hotel and arrived to find a post-it note stuck to the mini-bar saying Paul: This fridge and fittings are the correct way around and do not need altering -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#765839: task-desktop: installs a non-working dekstop environment on all but 2 archs
On Wed, 2014-10-22 at 01:28 +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote: Then you have no clue about what that means. What exactly do yo refer to? Not providing a default DE? I rather thought about a solution like the one the EU enforced on Microsoft with the browser selector: The interactive debian installation could just present a list of DE's that are commonly agreed to work in most cases for the current platform. E.g. majors like GNOME, KDE, LXDE, MATE, XFCE, perhaps also Cinnamon. And one could even make a sub menu like other desktop environments where one could select the rarer choices (bare X+twm, and so on). That lists could every time be randomised and no pre-selection being made. I'd expect that the average Debian user knows what he/she wants anyway, so I don't think we'd have a lot users who sit in front of that screen and basically don't know how to move on. And even if there would be such users, when the tasksel maintainers make a good choice of the majors list, then it shouldn't really matter what such user selects, since anything would work for him. Additionally one might even provide some additional information about each of the DEs, which may help in the selection process. And one could provide a parameter that allows a selection for batch-installation. All that would basically once and for all stop/solve any of the lengthy discussions a la why isn't XYZ the default, ABC sucks and I hate it. And Debian wouldn't implicitly discriminate all the other DE's by choosing XYZ as the default. Cheers, Chris. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
Bug#765839: task-desktop: installs a non-working dekstop environment on all but 2 archs
Dude, if you thinkn that posting offtopic stuff to a bug report is the way to convince people of something, you might want to think again. -- see shy jo signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Bug#765839: task-desktop: installs a non-working dekstop environment on all but 2 archs
Adam Borowski wrote: I have tried Gnome3 on: * an armhf laptop, Omega OAN133, with: * framebuffer * proprietary Mali drivers * an armhf desktop, hardkernel Odroid U2 (also Mali) * powerpc in qemu (using an existing system on real metal, d-i on qemu) What was the result of all these tests? Proposed solutions: 1. revert to xfce by default :p 2. make task-desktop arch:any, with gnome first on amd64 and i386, and xfce (or mate...) elsewhere 3. remove the task-gnome-desktop package on !amd64 !i386 Set a better default on a per-arch basis in default_desktop -- see shy jo signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Bug#765839: task-desktop: installs a non-working dekstop environment on all but 2 archs
On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 01:55:48PM -0400, Joey Hess wrote: Adam Borowski wrote: I have tried Gnome3 on: * an armhf laptop, Omega OAN133, with: * framebuffer * proprietary Mali drivers * an armhf desktop, hardkernel Odroid U2 (also Mali) * powerpc in qemu (using an existing system on real metal, d-i on qemu) What was the result of all these tests? Everywhere the same: Oh no! Something has gone wrong on a white screen. Replacing gdm3 with lightdm allows logging in, which gives the same screen. Cinnamon shows a different message. I got more arms but not a single piece of hardware of other architectures. I can check more in qemu if you want, though. Meow! -- // If you believe in so-called intellectual property, please immediately // cease using counterfeit alphabets. Instead, contact the nearest temple // of Amon, whose priests will provide you with scribal services for all // your writing needs, for Reasonable and Non-Discriminatory prices. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#765839: task-desktop: installs a non-working dekstop environment on all but 2 archs
Source: task-desktop Version: 3.28 Severity: important Hi! By dropping gnome-fallback, Gnome3 has effectively dropped support for all architectures other than amd64 and i386 (possibly armhf on Nvidia Tegra?). Yet in current debian-installer, gnome3 is installed by default, only to show: Oh no! Something has gone wrong A problem has occured and the system can't recover. Please log out and try again. with a [Log Out] button that doesn't even work. This is because Gnome3 requires specific GL rasterizers that are provided: * in hardware: Nvidia (inc. nouveau), Radeon (free and non-free), Intel drivers, but not eg. Mali proprietary * in software: llvmpipe llvmpipe is compiled only on five architectures: amd64, i386, armhf, kfreebsd-amd64 and kfreebsd-i386. Out of these five, kfreebsd-* don't count because systemd. In theory, Gnome3 should work with llvmpipe on armhf, but sadly, in practice it doesn't, in any setup I tried. I don't know gnome's underpinnings enough to debug this further, beyond installing it and giving it a working X11 setup. I have tried Gnome3 on: * an armhf laptop, Omega OAN133, with: * framebuffer * proprietary Mali drivers * an armhf desktop, hardkernel Odroid U2 (also Mali) * powerpc in qemu (using an existing system on real metal, d-i on qemu) Out of other -desktop tasks, I've checked that XFCE, LXDE, KDE and Mate work, and Cinnamon does not (not surprising as it's a Gnome3 front). Proposed solutions: 1. revert to xfce by default :p 2. make task-desktop arch:any, with gnome first on amd64 and i386, and xfce (or mate...) elsewhere 3. remove the task-gnome-desktop package on !amd64 !i386 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
