Bug#775527: live-images: upgrade splash to Jessie theme
No problem, and thanks for taking care of that :) On Tue, 2015-02-17 at 21:45 +0100, juliette Belin wrote: Hi, i'm very busy this month, sorry for the delay! I assume I am correct in thinking that you had no intention for any of the boot screen (grub/syslinux/isolinux) images you have supplied to be used in this way for install/live boot menus, but it might be helpful to the discussion if you could please confirm this correct, i wasn't aware of this usage. Your image looks good, i'll add it to the archive on the lines artwork. Thank you very much for taking the time to create it! Regards, Juliette -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#775527: live-images: upgrade splash to Jessie theme
Hi, i'm very busy this month, sorry for the delay! I assume I am correct in thinking that you had no intention for any of the boot screen (grub/syslinux/isolinux) images you have supplied to be used in this way for install/live boot menus, but it might be helpful to the discussion if you could please confirm this correct, i wasn't aware of this usage. Your image looks good, i'll add it to the archive on the lines artwork. Thank you very much for taking the time to create it! Regards, Juliette 2015-02-12 21:28 GMT+01:00 jnqnfe jnq...@gmail.com: On 11/02/2015 14:01, juliette Belin wrote: I just upload a new archive with the svg isolinux file and the lock screen that I have forgotten to add few weeks ago. Could you please tell me again what is needed to complete the theme ? Hi Juliette, Per the official artwork requirements you've supplied everything that was asked for, however there is another image which is needed which isn't listed in those requirements, and which I believe the Debian d-i/cd teams seem to just be taking it upon themselves to create (and not doing a perfect job of doing so imo). The image in question is the bootloader splash used for the boot menu of the official install media, and which is also used by live CD media produced with live-build. I have attached a screenshot (wheezy-install.png) from a Wheezy install disc to be clear about what image I am talking about. Daniel contacted you in relation to provisioning an updated Lines based version of this image for use with the live-build tool (for which he is the maintainer). I assume I am correct in thinking that you had no intention for any of the boot screen (grub/syslinux/isolinux) images you have supplied to be used in this way for install/live boot menus, but it might be helpful to the discussion if you could please confirm this. As you can see at [1] and [2] the Debian d-i and cd teams have once again taken the base theme assets and generated the required splash image themselves for install disc use (I assume you did not create it and send it to them privately). I have also attached a copy of these including a png conversion of the d-i svg. I am not trying to be antagonistic over the Debian d-i/cd teams creating this, though I am in favour of the theme artist doing it; this entire discussion simply developed in relation to getting an updated image available for live-build. As a perfectionist, I am not entirely happy with the images the d-i and cd teams have produced, specifically with the 'GNU/Linux' text they have added. If you look at the png conversion of the d-i svg, the letter spacing gets messed up (presumably a bug in the conversion software, which can be gotten around by converting the text to a path). The cd team's png is different, better letter spacing, but it's too far to the right, and otherwise still doesn't look right to me. On the 16th of last month, having only seen the cd team png, and noticing that the svg used by live-build for Wheezy was different and better in respect to the 'GNU/Linux' text (I have only just now recognised that it is an exact copy of the d-i svg, previously I had thought Daniel had made it), for a variety of reasons I took it upon myself to produce a fresh svg of this. To be clear, I was not trying to take any credit, I was just recreating their image as an svg (not knowing about the d-i svg at that point) partly in order to fix their messy 'GNU/Linux' text, and partly because an svg copy is wanted for live-build. I have attached a copy of the image I created (jnqnfe.zip). Basically I just took your grub svg, resized the background to exactly 640x480 (it was a little large), moved and resized the logo components to the right place/size (dropping the '8'), and recreated the 'GNU/Linux' text, which I then converted to a path. I am not looking for any credit for the svg I produced. I am perfectly happy for you to adopt it into your archive and claim the copyright, and equally happy for you to recreate it yourself if you like. Unlike with Wheezy, Daniel seems to wants to use an image created directly by the theme author this time around, and not the svg produced by the d-i team, presumably so that he can properly attribute copyright to the theme author. Currently he has adopted your syslinux image, on the basis that this is the image you have supplied (and syslinux is used for the live CD boot menu). I feel that this is completely the wrong image to be useing for live Cd boot menus. I am writing a separate email to him at the same time as this one to argue against use of that image. It would perhaps be helpful if you could recreate the image I made, or at least adopt ownership of mine if that is acceptable, in order to help address the copyright issue and allow what I feel to be the correct image to be used in live-build. I will try to see If I can get the artwork requirements amended to include creation
Bug#775527: live-images: upgrade splash to Jessie theme
On 12/02/2015 04:27, Daniel Baumann wrote: On 02/11/15 20:19, jnqnfe wrote: Why are we now using the simple black syslinux theme instead of the official install disc theme? it's the one Juliette provided in her tarball. Right, but Juliette is only going by the stated requirements at [1] to determine what images to create and supply in her archive. These requirements simply list, under the boot screen heading: - GRUB 2: 640x480, 24bit, file PNG. - Isolinux: 640x300px, 4bit color depth (means: 16 colors). View Make Sys Image. - Syslinux: 640x300px, 16bit color depth (means: 65,536 colors), in PNG format. - Plymouth: a SVG file (or at the very least a collection of PNGs for the different elements of scene and background). There is no implication anywhere that Juliette means for any of the images she has produced for the above to be used for install/live boot menus, nor by the Debian artwork proposal outlines that any of these would be used for that, and no-one so far has properly communicated to her than an image for such use is needed. If we look at the Wheezy 'joy' theme archive [2] this also only contains boot images per the above requirements. It does not contain a copy of the image actually used by the debian d-i/cd teams as a boot menu splash for the official install media. I would assume that they took the base theme assets and produced that image themselves. Furthermore at [3] and [4] you'll see that again with Jessie they are doing the very same thing. I am supportive of a notion that this image should actually be being produced by the theme artist as part of the artwork proposal, thus allowing correct and proper copyright attribution (perhaps we can have the requirements amended to list it). I am against use of the syslinux image currently selected for live-images though, I think it's completely the wrong one to be using. If the issue with the image I supplied myself was down to copyright attribution, I am perfectly happy to give up any claim of ownership/copyright I may have on it to Juliette, and for Juliette to adopt it as her own, or equally happy for her to produce her own copy. I had no intention of wanting any credit/claim over this, after all, all I did was take her individual asset components and place them on top of each other in a particular layout, then add the text 'GNU/Linux', hardly something I can or would want to claim as mine. :) I'm writing a separate email to Juliette at the same time as this to explain things. [1] https://wiki.debian.org/DebianDesktop/Artwork/Requirements [2] https://wiki.debian.org/DebianArt/Themes/Joy [3] http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/d-i/debian-installer.git/tree/build/boot/x86/pics/ [4] http://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/sid/main/installer-amd64/current/images/cdrom/debian-cd_info.tar.gz -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#775527: live-images: upgrade splash to Jessie theme
On 11/02/2015 19:06, Daniel Baumann wrote: nothing, only the svg was missing, thanks. Regards, Daniel Why are we now using the simple black syslinux theme instead of the official install disc theme? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#775527: live-images: upgrade splash to Jessie theme
tag 775527 + pending thanks On 02/11/15 15:01, juliette Belin wrote: Could you please tell me again what is needed to complete the theme ? nothing, only the svg was missing, thanks. Regards, Daniel -- Address:Daniel Baumann, Donnerbuehlweg 3, CH-3012 Bern Email: daniel.baum...@progress-technologies.net Internet: http://people.progress-technologies.net/~daniel.baumann/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#775527: live-images: upgrade splash to Jessie theme
Hi, I just upload a new archive with the svg isolinux file and the lock screen that I have forgotten to add few weeks ago. Could you please tell me again what is needed to complete the theme ? thank you regards, Juliette 2015-02-09 7:00 GMT+01:00 jnqnfe jnq...@gmail.com: On 09/02/2015 04:24, Richard Nelson wrote: First forgive me for not taking the time to say Thank you to Juliette for the very, very nice theme! Indeed! To me it seems very redundent to have multiple backgrounds for boot loaders. I am sure there is some technical reason, but the menuing can be clearly labeled such as Live, Grub, etc all use case, or even make your own if that is what you desire. But providing a baseline unified boot background for all cases to leverage would make sense. Now if booting live media _must_ require a different background (again not sure why) then have an installed boot background and a live background for theme submission. Furthermore it seems very logical to me to include them in some package, say desktop-base so other packages can avoid reinventing the wheel. Firstly, it is not simply for live media that this image design is wanted, it is also for the (official) install media. The reason for requiring a different image to the one you point to is not technical, it is merely cosmetic, but it is shown in a very prominent place, where we want things to look good. The grub splash image you're pointing to was so designed with the logos towards the bottom to to the constraint of trying to keep them clear of the content displayed by the otherwise default appearance of a grub2 menu (the menu list entries and the block of instructional text underneath), which otherwise could cause readability issue due to poor contrast if they overlapped. Thus this is perfect for an otherwise unthemed installed copy of grub, as you end up with after installing Debian, which you only see for a moment in booting your computer. On the other hand we have the boot menus displayed when you load an install or live disc. This default look isn't suitable here, although functional, it would look overly/terribly messy as a disc boot menu design. Here things are themed much more heavily to make things look more clean and tidy. This also then allows us more freedom with placement of logo components in the underlying splash image, leading to an even greater result.
Bug#775527: live-images: upgrade splash to Jessie theme
On 02/11/15 20:19, jnqnfe wrote: Why are we now using the simple black syslinux theme instead of the official install disc theme? it's the one Juliette provided in her tarball. -- Address:Daniel Baumann, Donnerbuehlweg 3, CH-3012 Bern Email: daniel.baum...@progress-technologies.net Internet: http://people.progress-technologies.net/~daniel.baumann/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#775527: live-images: upgrade splash to Jessie theme
On 08/02/2015 01:28, Richard Nelson wrote: For live-medium-install I changed my dependecy from syslinx-themes-debian to desktop-base which happens to include /usr/share/images/desktop-base/lines-grub.png. Perhaps this could be just copied to isolinux.png since I am using it and it appears nice. That is not the image we want, that's the splash used for an installed grub bootloader. Juliette created and provided this in her Lines theme package [1], and I accidentally used it in the first version of my 775527 patch. Juliette also provided a syslinux version, which is simply a black background with grey/white logos, a tweaked update of the existing one used at least in live images created and provided by the debian-cd team. This again is not actually what we want. What we want is a Lines version of the splash used by the official install discs. Juliette did not provide this in the downloadable lines-theme archive. The debian-cd team seem to have perhaps created a png version of this themselves, which you can find buried in a debian-cd_info archive in the mirrors. However: 1) No svg version is supplied. 2) The swirl logo is slightly different if you look really closely, to the version I produced from the very latest Lines theme assets archive (I haven't looked at older ones to try and understand why). 3) The addition of the 'GNU/Linux' text, (for which Juliette provided no asset, so I assume the debian-cd team just copied and pasted from the Wheezy splash), looks awful (as it does in the official Wheezy install discs). The Wheezy svg that has been distributed via live-images may have been a recreation; as this bit of text at least was different (and better) than the official splash, though the rendering of this text was still somewhat poor after being converted to a png (bug in the conversion software perhaps?), which can be improved by converting the text to a path (shapes). So, not knowing whether Julliette might be too busy, undertook generating a suitable splash for us myself (and gave a copy to the debian-cd team) to use for install/live media. I used the latest archive of Juliette's Lines assets, and replaced the 'GNU/Linux' text with an entirely new copy, rendered in the same 'liberation sans' font as the previous live-images svg had used, and converted to a path this time. The final copy of which (v4) is available attached to bug #775527. I have actually since found an svg buried in the d-i source code (build/boot/x86/pics/lines.svg). The swirl is still slightly different to the one I used. The 'GNU/Linux' text doesn't look as bad as the png in the debian-cd_info archive, so I'm wondering if its buggy conversion software that's to blame, if that is responsible for the difference. I haven't heard back at all from the debian-cd theme about the tweaked splash I sent them. [1] https://wiki.debian.org/DebianArt/Themes/Lines -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#775527: live-images: upgrade splash to Jessie theme
On 09/02/2015 04:24, Richard Nelson wrote: First forgive me for not taking the time to say Thank you to Juliette for the very, very nice theme! Indeed! To me it seems very redundent to have multiple backgrounds for boot loaders. I am sure there is some technical reason, but the menuing can be clearly labeled such as Live, Grub, etc all use case, or even make your own if that is what you desire. But providing a baseline unified boot background for all cases to leverage would make sense. Now if booting live media _must_ require a different background (again not sure why) then have an installed boot background and a live background for theme submission. Furthermore it seems very logical to me to include them in some package, say desktop-base so other packages can avoid reinventing the wheel. Firstly, it is not simply for live media that this image design is wanted, it is also for the (official) install media. The reason for requiring a different image to the one you point to is not technical, it is merely cosmetic, but it is shown in a very prominent place, where we want things to look good. The grub splash image you're pointing to was so designed with the logos towards the bottom to to the constraint of trying to keep them clear of the content displayed by the otherwise default appearance of a grub2 menu (the menu list entries and the block of instructional text underneath), which otherwise could cause readability issue due to poor contrast if they overlapped. Thus this is perfect for an otherwise unthemed installed copy of grub, as you end up with after installing Debian, which you only see for a moment in booting your computer. On the other hand we have the boot menus displayed when you load an install or live disc. This default look isn't suitable here, although functional, it would look overly/terribly messy as a disc boot menu design. Here things are themed much more heavily to make things look more clean and tidy. This also then allows us more freedom with placement of logo components in the underlying splash image, leading to an even greater result. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#775527: live-images: upgrade splash to Jessie theme
Greetings, On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 1:42 PM, jnqnfe jnq...@gmail.com wrote: On 08/02/2015 01:28, Richard Nelson wrote: For live-medium-install I changed my dependecy from syslinx-themes-debian to desktop-base which happens to include /usr/share/images/desktop-base/lines-grub.png. Perhaps this could be just copied to isolinux.png since I am using it and it appears nice. That is not the image we want, that's the splash used for an installed grub bootloader. Juliette created and provided this in her Lines theme package [1], and I accidentally used it in the first version of my 775527 patch. First forgive me for not taking the time to say Thank you to Juliette for the very, very nice theme! I offered the above resource as a suggestion for three reasons: 1. I elected to use it. 2. Available for use in a package now, 3. I much preferred it over the isolinux. To me it seems very redundent to have multiple backgrounds for boot loaders. I am sure there is some technical reason, but the menuing can be clearly labeled such as Live, Grub, etc all use case, or even make your own if that is what you desire. But providing a baseline unified boot background for all cases to leverage would make sense. Now if booting live media _must_ require a different background (again not sure why) then have an installed boot background and a live background for theme submission. Furthermore it seems very logical to me to include them in some package, say desktop-base so other packages can avoid reinventing the wheel. Juliette also provided a syslinux version, which is simply a black background with grey/white logos, a tweaked update of the existing one used at least in live images created and provided by the debian-cd team. This again is not actually what we want. What we want is a Lines version of the splash used by the official install discs. Juliette did not provide this in the downloadable lines-theme archive. The debian-cd team seem to have perhaps created a png version of this themselves, which you can find buried in a debian-cd_info archive in the mirrors. However: 1) No svg version is supplied. 2) The swirl logo is slightly different if you look really closely, to the version I produced from the very latest Lines theme assets archive (I haven't looked at older ones to try and understand why). 3) The addition of the 'GNU/Linux' text, (for which Juliette provided no asset, so I assume the debian-cd team just copied and pasted from the Wheezy splash), looks awful (as it does in the official Wheezy install discs). The Wheezy svg that has been distributed via live-images may have been a recreation; as this bit of text at least was different (and better) than the official splash, though the rendering of this text was still somewhat poor after being converted to a png (bug in the conversion software perhaps?), which can be improved by converting the text to a path (shapes). So, not knowing whether Julliette might be too busy, undertook generating a suitable splash for us myself (and gave a copy to the debian-cd team) to use for install/live media. I used the latest archive of Juliette's Lines assets, and replaced the 'GNU/Linux' text with an entirely new copy, rendered in the same 'liberation sans' font as the previous live-images svg had used, and converted to a path this time. The final copy of which (v4) is available attached to bug #775527. I did look at that image generated by the said patch, and the image looks nice. I have actually since found an svg buried in the d-i source code (build/boot/x86/pics/lines.svg). The swirl is still slightly different to the one I used. The 'GNU/Linux' text doesn't look as bad as the png in the debian-cd_info archive, so I'm wondering if its buggy conversion software that's to blame, if that is responsible for the difference. I haven't heard back at all from the debian-cd theme about the tweaked splash I sent them. [1] https://wiki.debian.org/DebianArt/Themes/Lines Perhaps the resolution to this bug has the potential to improve the landscape of backgrounds for booting and also provide unification of theme work for the most fantastic Debian operating system.
Bug#775527: live-images: upgrade splash to Jessie theme
Greetings, On Sat, Feb 7, 2015 at 12:07 AM, Daniel Baumann daniel.baum...@progress-technologies.net wrote: Daniel Baumann wrote: in order to use the Lines theme for the debian-live images, we need an svg of the isolinux.png. Can you upload one to the themes page? Juliette, any news on this? For live-medium-install I changed my dependecy from syslinx-themes-debian to desktop-base which happens to include /usr/share/images/desktop-base/lines-grub.png. Perhaps this could be just copied to isolinux.png since I am using it and it appears nice. Hope this information assists. -- Address:Daniel Baumann, Donnerbuehlweg 3, CH-3012 Bern Email: daniel.baum...@progress-technologies.net Internet: http://people.progress-technologies.net/~daniel.baumann/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-live-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54d5aba8.1070...@progress-technologies.net
Bug#775527: live-images: upgrade splash to Jessie theme
Daniel Baumann wrote: in order to use the Lines theme for the debian-live images, we need an svg of the isolinux.png. Can you upload one to the themes page? Juliette, any news on this? -- Address:Daniel Baumann, Donnerbuehlweg 3, CH-3012 Bern Email: daniel.baum...@progress-technologies.net Internet: http://people.progress-technologies.net/~daniel.baumann/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-dist-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
