Bug#795158: explain spelling-error-in-description for 'allow to'

2015-08-11 Thread Niels Thykier
On 2015-08-11 09:56, chrysn wrote:
 Package: lintian
 Version: 2.5.34
 Severity: minor
 

Hi,

Thanks for reporting this bug.

I am CC'ing debian-l10n-english for a bit of assistance.  I got two
@English for you. :)

 The spelling-error-in-description correction Allow to - Allow one
 to is hard to understand without further explanation.
 

@English: Do you have a suggestion for how we explain this simpler than
the below?  I suspect the long (sentence theoretical) explanation is not
going to help the average reader.


My understanding of it is: Allow (when used with to) is always a
transitive verb.  That is, it must apply to an object.
Consider the following sentence:

  I allow my dog to go outside.

Here allow is a transitive verb, which is applied to my dog, which
is the object (sentence structure wise).  What the correction is
complaining about is that it sees an instance of:

 I allow to go outside.

This sentence is invalid and is missing something.  It could have been
a passive voice missing a verb and in wrong tense (e.g. I am allowed
to go outside) or it could be missing an object (a la the previous
example above).

Note: In the suggested correction, lintian always uses one as the
object.  I am not sure if a place-holder might have been better.  E.g.

  allow to - allow missing-word to

 With openscad, it reports the Allow to open multiple files menu line.

Which, to my understanding, grammatically does not make a lot of sense.
 If it is a menu line, it might make sense to word it slightly
different.  An example could be:

  Open multiple files

Menu lines tend to imperative anyway (orders to the computer).

 I've checked with several native speakers and a dictionary, and nothing
 gives me an indication on 'allow to' being wrong; at best, people have
 suggested Allow opening multiple files, but on a either would work
 basis.
 

I am not sure there is a general consensus that either would work here.

 * @English, what is your take on this?

 The report overview shows that the 'allow' case makes up roughly half of
 the spelling-error-in-description cases.
 
 Could you clarify on this?
 
 Thanks
 chrysn
 

Presumably, people are not in a hurry to fix spelling mistakes or/and
(like you) were unsure on how to fix the particular spelling mistake.

Thanks,
~Niels


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Bug#795158: explain spelling-error-in-description for 'allow to'

2015-08-11 Thread chrysn
Package: lintian
Version: 2.5.34
Severity: minor

The spelling-error-in-description correction Allow to - Allow one
to is hard to understand without further explanation.

With openscad, it reports the Allow to open multiple files menu line.
I've checked with several native speakers and a dictionary, and nothing
gives me an indication on 'allow to' being wrong; at best, people have
suggested Allow opening multiple files, but on a either would work
basis.

The report overview shows that the 'allow' case makes up roughly half of
the spelling-error-in-description cases.

Could you clarify on this?

Thanks
chrysn


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Bug#795158: explain spelling-error-in-description for 'allow to'

2015-08-11 Thread Justin B Rye
Niels Thykier wrote:
 The spelling-error-in-description correction Allow to - Allow one
 to is hard to understand without further explanation.
 
 
 @English: Do you have a suggestion for how we explain this simpler than
 the below?  I suspect the long (sentence theoretical) explanation is not
 going to help the average reader.
 
 My understanding of it is: Allow (when used with to) is always a
 transitive verb.  That is, it must apply to an object.
 Consider the following sentence:
 
   I allow my dog to go outside.
 
 Here allow is a transitive verb, which is applied to my dog, which
 is the object (sentence structure wise).  What the correction is
 complaining about is that it sees an instance of:
 
  I allow to go outside.
 
 This sentence is invalid and is missing something.  It could have been
 a passive voice missing a verb and in wrong tense (e.g. I am allowed
 to go outside) or it could be missing an object (a la the previous
 example above).

Yes - allow to open files is missing an object.  Most English
transitive verbs are pretty easygoing about being turned into
intransitives like this, but to allow is one of the exceptions
(along with e.g. to merit - you can't say does this merit? - or
to recognise - you can't say I recognise).

It can be hard to notice the absence of an object with allow since
it can get one in any of several ways -
 • this option allows you to open files
 • this option allows opening files
 • this option allows files to be opened
(That third one's particularly silly if you imagine the files begging
to be opened...)

It also gets some camouflage from the fact that allow to open files
is already missing a *subject*, which readers might take to imply that
this is the sort of context where conciseness matters more than
grammaticality.  (In fact, no, it's just phrased as an imperative, and
imperatives regularly drop their subject.)

Then, some regions of the US allow allow as an intransitive meaning
believe, but this is strongly dialectal.

You can often get away with it, just as you can get away with
pronouncing world as vurlt, but it makes you really easy to spot 
as a non-native-speaker.  When I'm doing documentation reviews on
debian-l10n-english, a package description that starts with This
package allows to... is usually the first sign that I'll have lots of
work to do.
 
 Note: In the suggested correction, lintian always uses one as the
 object.  I am not sure if a place-holder might have been better.  E.g.
 
   allow to - allow missing-word to

That proposed replacement text with one is probably the most likely
quick fix to work in the largest number of cases, but it does also have
the disadvantage of introducing a use of one which is slightly
clunky (especially if the text has already been referring to generic
users as you).

Using missing-word has the drawback that it makes it even harder
to guess just what's supposed to be missing.  Are you saying it needs
to be allow trying to?

It occurs to me that you might try:

allow to - allow users to

which is likely to work about as often.  Mind you, when this comes up
on d-l-e my preferred fix is usually to try to eliminate the word
allow from the text completely, since it's almost always useless
padding, and often technically untrue - I was already *allowed* to
open files before this package came along!  And indeed this menu
option isn't proposing to change the user's authorisation levels.
 
 With openscad, it reports the Allow to open multiple files menu line.
 
 Which, to my understanding, grammatically does not make a lot of sense.
  If it is a menu line, it might make sense to word it slightly
 different.  An example could be:
 
   Open multiple files
 
 Menu lines tend to imperative anyway (orders to the computer).

(Which as I was saying is why there's no explicit subject.)
 
 I've checked with several native speakers and a dictionary, and nothing
 gives me an indication on 'allow to' being wrong; at best, people have
 suggested Allow opening multiple files, but on a either would work
 basis.
 
 I am not sure there is a general consensus that either would work here.
 
  * @English, what is your take on this?

I've given this particular non-nativism pride of place on my d-l-e
style guide page:
 http://www.xibalba.demon.co.uk/jbr/linux/esl.html#b1;
 
 The report overview shows that the 'allow' case makes up roughly half of
 the spelling-error-in-description cases.
 
 Could you clarify on this?
 
 Thanks
 chrysn
 
 Presumably, people are not in a hurry to fix spelling mistakes or/and
 (like you) were unsure on how to fix the particular spelling mistake.

Also, an awful lot of packages get uploaded once with halfhearted
package descriptions and then left to rot.  If lintian could detect
missing definite articles, the overview for that would show errors in
lots of packages that nobody would ever bother NMUing.
-- 
JBR with qualifications in linguistics, experience as a Debian
sysadmin, and probably no clue