Bug#792307: closed by Brian Potkin <claremont...@gmail.com> (Re: Bug#863974: hplip should not require systemd)

[Christian Mueller]

Correct, sorry, I've been running without any systemd components for 
such a long time that I forgot the details. Either way, systemd 
components are currently pulled in and activated (logind-systemd).


I don't have a good example for Linux off the top of my head because 
I've removed systemd a long time ago but maybe an example from OS X 
(which seems to be the origin of quite a few concepts introduced with 
systemd) explains my general problem: the socket used for X11 is stored 
in a private tmp diretory which can't be accessed by other users, thus I 
can't su to another login and still use X11 programs. That's what breaks 
my workflow - I usually have two or three different logins active on the 
same desktop and private tmp directories break things for me sooner or 
later. Of course I can set up a shared directory accessible by all users 
but that's not the point. Plus the ever-growing list of tmpfs mount 
points is really getting to me.


I know that ConsoleKit is no longer maintained but that's what I'm using 
right now because it's set up as a dependency. Maybe it would be 
possible to ditch all dependencies to "fast user switching" without 
systemd and go back to the old way of things where ownership of console 
devices is set to whoever logs into a local console when no other 
console is active. This way, folks who don't want Linux turned into 
something resembling Windows or OS X can work the way they're used to 
and all others can have systemd and all the things that come with it...


Like I said, I'm more than happy to provide a patch for policykit that 
does all that dynamically, i.e. doesn't need hard dependencies to 
systemd but uses it when present, dynamically loading the systemd libs. 
But if there's no interest it would be a waste of time. I'd also be 
willing to step up as maintainer for ConsolKit if that helps. Or both.


On 06/04/2017 11:05 AM, Simon McVittie wrote:

On Sat, 03 Jun 2017 at 22:50:58 +0200, Christian Mueller wrote:

(separate temp mount points for
each user) which, apart from the incredible clutter in the list of mounted
file systems, breaks my workflows (I need a single /tmp for all users).

systemd-logind mounts a small tmpfs at /run/user/$uid for each concurrent
user, as its way to implement XDG_RUNTIME_DIR without letting users cause
denial of service by filling up /run. /tmp remains visible to all users.


Just having a version of policykit-1 compiled without systemd
dependencies would solve all our issues and it's a tiny little change in the
rules file.

The change is tiny, but the support burden is not.

To be able to implement the policies that it provides, polkit needs a
way to determine which users are logged-in, which of those logged-in
users are local (getty, xdm etc. but not ssh), and which of those local
users are on the active VT. Historically, that was implemented by
ConsoleKit, which no longer has upstream maintainers[1], and does not
appear to have Debian maintainers either. On Linux systems (with
either systemd, sysvinit + systemd-shim or Upstart + systemd-shim)
the replacement is systemd-logind.

 S

[1] https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/ConsoleKit/

Bug#792307: closed by Brian Potkin <claremont...@gmail.com> (Re: Bug#863974: hplip should not require systemd)

[Simon McVittie]

On Sat, 03 Jun 2017 at 22:50:58 +0200, Christian Mueller wrote:
> (separate temp mount points for
> each user) which, apart from the incredible clutter in the list of mounted
> file systems, breaks my workflows (I need a single /tmp for all users).

systemd-logind mounts a small tmpfs at /run/user/$uid for each concurrent
user, as its way to implement XDG_RUNTIME_DIR without letting users cause
denial of service by filling up /run. /tmp remains visible to all users.

> Just having a version of policykit-1 compiled without systemd
> dependencies would solve all our issues and it's a tiny little change in the
> rules file.

The change is tiny, but the support burden is not.

To be able to implement the policies that it provides, polkit needs a
way to determine which users are logged-in, which of those logged-in
users are local (getty, xdm etc. but not ssh), and which of those local
users are on the active VT. Historically, that was implemented by
ConsoleKit, which no longer has upstream maintainers[1], and does not
appear to have Debian maintainers either. On Linux systems (with
either systemd, sysvinit + systemd-shim or Upstart + systemd-shim)
the replacement is systemd-logind.

S

[1] https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/ConsoleKit/

Bug#792307: closed by Brian Potkin <claremont...@gmail.com> (Re: Bug#863974: hplip should not require systemd)

[Christian Mueller]

Hi Brian,

I just realized that my bug report, #792307, got merged with #863974 
which may have the same underlying cause but a different interpretation 
of the results. Yes, just installing the systemd binary won't enable it 
as the active init system but another part of the dependency chain, 
libpam-systemd, already imports some of the systemd patterns (separate 
temp mount points for each user) which, apart from the incredible 
clutter in the list of mounted file systems, breaks my workflows (I need 
a single /tmp for all users).


Debian always maintained that systemd would be optional and I would hope 
for a little more flexibility when it comes to [reasonable] requests to 
allow setting up desktop systems without having systemd bits and pieces 
getting in the way. Just having a version of policykit-1 compiled 
without systemd dependencies would solve all our issues and it's a tiny 
little change in the rules file. We would simply have two alternatives 
for policykit-1, one with and one without systemd. Or dynamic support at 
runtime. If there's anything I can do to help getting this implemented, 
especially the runtime detection, please let me know - I'm more than 
happy to put this together but only if I this is not a lost cause 
because nobody is interested in accepting this as a patch, anyway.


Thanks,
--Christian

On 06/03/2017 09:57 PM, Debian Bug Tracking System wrote:

This is an automatic notification regarding your Bug report
which was filed against the policykit-1 package:

#792307: policykit-1: There should be a variant of policykit-1 which doesn't 
depend on systemd

It has been closed by Brian Potkin .

Their explanation is attached below along with your original report.
If this explanation is unsatisfactory and you have not received a
better one in a separate message then please contact Brian Potkin 
 by
replying to this email.

Bug#863974: hplip should not require systemd

[Julian Andres Klode]

Control: reopen -1
Control: reassign -1 policykit-1
Control: forcemerge 792307 -1

On Fri, Jun 02, 2017 at 05:20:51PM +0200, Julian Andres Klode wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 02, 2017 at 10:10:57AM -0400, Mark Murawski wrote:
> > Package: hplip
> > Version: 3.16.11+repack0-3
> > Severity: important
> > 
> > * What led up to the situation?
> > # apt-get install hplip
> > 
> > Outcome:
> > Building dependency tree
> > Reading state information... Done
> > The following additional packages will be installed:
> > hplip-data libhpmud0 libpam-systemd libsane-hpaio policykit-1 
> > printer-driver-hpcups printer-driver-postscript-hp systemd
> > Suggested packages:
> > hplip-doc hplip-gui python3-notify2 system-config-printer systemd-ui 
> > systemd-container
> > The following NEW packages will be installed:
> > hplip libpam-systemd policykit-1 printer-driver-postscript-hp systemd
> > The following packages will be upgraded:
> > hplip-data libhpmud0 libsane-hpaio printer-driver-hpcups
> > 4 upgraded, 5 newly installed, 0 to remove and 2119 not upgraded.
> > 
> > My distribution is set up with sysvinit.  There is no reason that 
> > installing a printer driver should require switching init systems
> 
> HPLIP requires PolicyKit, PolicyKit requires libpam-systemd. And it does not 
> switch
> init systems, it just installs the systemd package. If you don't like that, 
> consider
> contributing to PolicyKit and see how that can be changed.

I take that back. Look at https://bugs.debian.org/792307 - the bug is
tagged wontfix. So let's reopen that and merge it with the other bug,
that's a bit cleaner.

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  |  Ubuntu Core Developer |
When replying, only quote what is necessary, and write each reply
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Bug#863974: hplip should not require systemd

[Mark Murawski]

Package: hplip
Version: 3.16.11+repack0-3
Severity: important

* What led up to the situation?
# apt-get install hplip

Outcome:
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
The following additional packages will be installed:
hplip-data libhpmud0 libpam-systemd libsane-hpaio policykit-1 
printer-driver-hpcups printer-driver-postscript-hp systemd
Suggested packages:
hplip-doc hplip-gui python3-notify2 system-config-printer systemd-ui 
systemd-container
The following NEW packages will be installed:
hplip libpam-systemd policykit-1 printer-driver-postscript-hp systemd
The following packages will be upgraded:
hplip-data libhpmud0 libsane-hpaio printer-driver-hpcups
4 upgraded, 5 newly installed, 0 to remove and 2119 not upgraded.

My distribution is set up with sysvinit.  There is no reason that installing a 
printer driver should require switching init systems


-- Package-specific info:

-- System Information:
Debian Release: 8.5
  APT prefers testing
  APT policy: (750, 'testing')
Architecture: amd64 (x86_64)

Kernel: Linux 4.9.7 (SMP w/8 CPU cores; PREEMPT)
Locale: LANG=C, LC_CTYPE=C (charmap=ANSI_X3.4-1968)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash
Init: sysvinit (via /sbin/init)

Versions of packages hplip depends on:
ii  adduser3.113+nmu3
ii  coreutils  8.23-4
ii  cups   1.7.5-11+deb8u1
ii  hplip-data 3.16.11+repack0-2
ii  libc6  2.24-9
ii  libcups2   1.7.5-11+deb8u1
ii  libdbus-1-31.10.18-1
ii  libhpmud0  3.16.11+repack0-2
ii  libsane1.0.24-8+deb8u1
ii  libsane-hpaio  3.16.11+repack0-2
ii  libsnmp30  5.7.3+dfsg-1.7
ii  libssl1.0.01.0.1t-1+deb8u5
ii  libusb-1.0-0   2:1.0.19-1
ii  lsb-base   4.1+Debian13+nmu1
pn  policykit-1
ii  printer-driver-hpcups  3.16.11+repack0-2
ii  python 2.7.13-2
ii  python-dbus1.2.0-2+b3
ii  python-gobject-2   2.28.6-12+b1
ii  python-imaging 2.6.1-2+deb8u2
ii  python-pexpect 3.2-1
ii  python-reportlab   3.1.8-3+deb8u1
ii  wget   1.16-1

Versions of packages hplip recommends:
ii  avahi-daemon  0.6.31-5
pn  printer-driver-postscript-hp  
ii  sane-utils1.0.24-8+deb8u1

Versions of packages hplip suggests:
pn  hplip-doc  
pn  hplip-gui  
pn  python-notify  
pn  system-config-printer