Bug#551926: [Python-modules-team] Bug#551926: cannot be installed together with pip or pip-python
Hi Raphael, On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 16:52, Raphael Hertzog hert...@debian.org wrote: Hi, On Sun, 21 Mar 2010, Carl Chenet wrote: I'm a new maintainer for the python-pip package and it would be great to solve this blocking issue. The python-pip and pip packages have quite the same popcon, and it is hard to select one using the name pip. I think the issue has been open for long enough without clear consensus. Hence all packages should rename their /usr/bin/pip to something else and document the difference vs upstream in README.Debian. BTW, finding new names is hard, but choosing a 3 letter acronym is a recipe for problems... Please take care to coordinate with other depending packages if needed (virtualenv for python-pip?). of course I'm s little biased on this, but I'm attending Pycon italia and 2 talks (over the 4 given by know) already provide explicit references to pip and also about how to use it (that's as simple as pip install module). I don't know how strong is the tool 'pip' into the perl world, but it's absolutely well known, used and strongly suggested (along with virtualenv) in the Python world, so diverging from its original name would be another source of frustration for the python community willing to use debian (and that community is already being harmed several times). Regards, -- Sandro Tosi (aka morph, morpheus, matrixhasu) My website: http://matrixhasu.altervista.org/ Me at Debian: http://wiki.debian.org/SandroTosi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-rc-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#551926: [Python-modules-team] Bug#551926: cannot be installed together with pip or pip-python
Hi, On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 4:51 AM, Sandro Tosi mo...@debian.org wrote: I think the issue has been open for long enough without clear consensus. Hence all packages should rename their /usr/bin/pip to something else and document the difference vs upstream in README.Debian. BTW, finding new names is hard, but choosing a 3 letter acronym is a recipe for problems... I don't want to keep beating this dead horse, but the position from the Perl community is that: 1. We picked the name 'pip' first (the release of Perl's pip precedes Python's pip) 2. The author of Python's pip was informed of the naming conflict on his blog 3. The author chose to ignore it And now we're in this mess. So, either the author is a jerk, or he just didn't think anyone would be installing both on the same system. But as we have the 'pip' package name, I think it is fair we get the 'pip' script name. I see no reason for Perl's pip to have to change its name, simply because the author of Python's pip chose a name which was already in use by someone else, and because the author was already informed that something like this might happen, and chose to proceed anyway. of course I'm s little biased on this, but I'm attending Pycon italia and 2 talks (over the 4 given by know) already provide explicit references to pip and also about how to use it (that's as simple as pip install module). What happens if someone releases a script called 'sh' and wants to install it to /usr/bin/sh? Despite being informed that obviously it conflicts with peoples' shells. I consider this a similar problem, but on a much smaller scale (obviously Perl's pip is not as popular as sh), but the point is still valid. would be another source of frustration for the python community willing to use debian (and that community is already being harmed several times). Rather than cripple Perl's pip, if it's really not in use by anyone, I think we should just remove the pip package and let Python take over the name and /usr/bin path. But if it is in use, then given the author of the Python script had advance warning, I think the Python community effectively did this harm to themselves. I do not think it is unreasonable to think of script names the same as module names, as: on a first-come, first-served basis -- it is the responsibility of each author to do a search to make sure they are not picking the same names as anyone else. Not only did he fail to do adequate research, he failed to predict this would happen and change the name accordingly. In summary: if we do not need the Perl version, remove it. If we need the Perl version, its name should stay as 'pip'. This decision should be made irrespective of Python's pip, because Perl's pip came first (so I think it deserves that privilege). Cheers, Jonathan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-rc-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#551926: [Python-modules-team] Bug#551926: cannot be installed together with pip or pip-python
On Sat, 08 May 2010 08:27:40 -0400, Jonathan Yu wrote: I see no reason for Perl's pip to have to change its name, simply because the author of Python's pip chose a name which was already in use by someone else, and because the author was already informed that something like this might happen, and chose to proceed anyway. The situation as I see it: * Both upstream authors want to keep the name. * Sandro wants the python package to keep pip, Jonathan wants the perl package to keep pip. * Deadlock. I guess that's why Raphaël pointed to the default resolution in such situations: | Hence all packages should rename their /usr/bin/pip to something else and | document the difference vs upstream in README.Debian. In summary: if we do not need the Perl version, remove it. pip doesn't have any rdepends. I was curious what it was needed for in the first place; I had a hunch about padre, and indeed: #v+ padre (0.59.ds1-1) unstable; urgency=low [..] + remove pip from dependencies [..] -- Damyan Ivanov d...@debian.org Fri, 09 Apr 2010 12:03:52 +0300 [..] padre (0.48.ds2-1) unstable; urgency=low * New Upstream Version + new dependencies: [..] - pip 0.13 [..] -- Damyan Ivanov d...@debian.org Thu, 29 Oct 2009 17:40:10 +0200 #v- And indeed, the graphs on http://qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?packages=pip look much like the dates when pip was added/removed as a dependency of padre. I'm not sure how useful/needed/... pip is on its own. But looking at the (non-existant) rdepends and the popcon values I think RMing it would be a viable solution. Cheers, gregor -- .''`. http://info.comodo.priv.at/ -- GPG key IDs: 0x8649AA06, 0x00F3CFE4 : :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, developer - http://www.debian.org/ `. `' Member of VIBE!AT SPI, fellow of Free Software Foundation Europe `-NP: Spider Murphy Gang: Rock'n Roll Schuah signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Bug#551926: [Python-modules-team] Bug#551926: cannot be installed together with pip or pip-python
reassign 551926 ftp.debian.org retitle 551926 RM: pip -- tool for scripted and third-party CPAN distribution installation thanks On Sat, 08 May 2010, gregor herrmann wrote: I'm not sure how useful/needed/... pip is on its own. But looking at the (non-existant) rdepends and the popcon values I think RMing it would be a viable solution. Ack, thanks for the investigation, it's a better outcome than having several divergences compared to upstream. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog Like what I do? Sponsor me: http://ouaza.com/wp/2010/01/05/5-years-of-freexian/ My Debian goals: http://ouaza.com/wp/2010/01/09/debian-related-goals-for-2010/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-rc-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Processed: Re: Bug#551926: [Python-modules-team] Bug#551926: cannot be installed together with pip or pip-python
Processing commands for cont...@bugs.debian.org: reassign 551926 ftp.debian.org Bug #551926 [pip,python-pip] python-pip and pip: error when trying to install together Bug reassigned from package 'pip,python-pip' to 'ftp.debian.org'. retitle 551926 RM: pip -- tool for scripted and third-party CPAN distribution installation Bug #551926 [ftp.debian.org] python-pip and pip: error when trying to install together Changed Bug title to 'RM: pip -- tool for scripted and third-party CPAN distribution installation' from 'python-pip and pip: error when trying to install together' thanks Stopping processing here. Please contact me if you need assistance. -- 551926: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=551926 Debian Bug Tracking System Contact ow...@bugs.debian.org with problems -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-rc-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
