Bug#562234: Cache file location in violation of FHS
Alasdair G Kergon writes: > On Thu, Dec 09, 2010 at 08:46:50AM +0100, Goswin von Brederlow wrote: >> In what case does it break? > > That's the wrong question:) > > You should ask: Under what conditions are its hard-coded assumptions > about LVM metadata true? > > Alasdair Way to avoid answering. >From the BTS I gather that grub2 can't handle mirrored LVs. Support for snapshots suposedly was fixed. No report about pvmove. Anything else with LVM in the topic is about install failures and pretty vague. So if you know of a way other than mirrored LVs to make grub2 fail then please do report a bug. It works here[tm], which makes it hard to debug and fix suposed problems. MfG Goswin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-rc-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#562234: Cache file location in violation of FHS
On Thu, Dec 09, 2010 at 08:46:50AM +0100, Goswin von Brederlow wrote: > In what case does it break? That's the wrong question:) You should ask: Under what conditions are its hard-coded assumptions about LVM metadata true? Alasdair -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-rc-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#562234: Cache file location in violation of FHS
Alasdair G Kergon writes: > /etc/lvm has several functions. > > Read-only config - leave it where it is. Obviously. I was only meaning the writable parts. > cache_dir - in general can be cleared on each boot so a tmpfs location > would be fine or /var/cache or something Maybe /lib/init/rw/ then for it to work early during boot. Works without errors when pointed to /var/backups/lvm/ but it might have speed penalties. Not sure. > Metadata backups > ideally would be stored persistently outside lvm but otherwise > /var/backups sounds OK > > (The locations of the *writeable* parts are configurable from > inside the *readable* part.) > > On Wed, Dec 08, 2010 at 04:31:29PM +0100, Goswin von Brederlow wrote: >> Since grub2 can now too boot directly from lvm > > *Not* in general. It's unsafe for general use but works under certain > undocumented configurations. > > Alasdair D-I lets you install it that way without warnings and doesn't need expert mode to allow it. The unsafeness seems to be a secret. In what case does it break? When you are in the middle of a pvmove? When the LV is split between devices? MfG Goswin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-rc-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#562234: Cache file location in violation of FHS
/etc/lvm has several functions. Read-only config - leave it where it is. cache_dir - in general can be cleared on each boot so a tmpfs location would be fine or /var/cache or something Metadata backups ideally would be stored persistently outside lvm but otherwise /var/backups sounds OK (The locations of the *writeable* parts are configurable from inside the *readable* part.) On Wed, Dec 08, 2010 at 04:31:29PM +0100, Goswin von Brederlow wrote: > Since grub2 can now too boot directly from lvm *Not* in general. It's unsafe for general use but works under certain undocumented configurations. Alasdair -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-rc-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#562234: Cache file location in violation of FHS
Hi, the current cache file location (/etc/lvm) makes problems with a read-only / so something has to be done. On the other hand configuring it to /var/backups/ seems to work just fine all around. No problems so far even during boot (when /var isn't there yet). Since grub2 can now too boot directly from lvm and any software raid I think that /etc/lvm is far less likely to be on a non LVM parttion. Same can be said for /boot. So I see little to no drawback to using /var/backups, which is most likely on LVM. So I would suggest that the location for new installs should be /var/backups/lvm since that produces less problems overall. I'm a little conflicted what to do with exinsting installs, esspecially those where /etc is not on LVM. It would be greate to then leave the backup there but that would require some detection code and a dynamic lvm.conf (ucf?). Do you want to add some detection for a non LVM volume (/etc/lvm or /boot/lvm)? MfG Goswin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-rc-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#562234: Cache file location in violation of FHS
Hi. I'm not sure whether it's a good idea to make such exceptions to FHS. I mean that would dilute it more and more. Alasdair, could you please tell us which concrete problems you've had? btw: /boot is not always on non-LVM or really available. I for example have my /boot on an USB-stick... (fully encrypted disk including / ) I think it's also difficult to automatically put the backups on a non-LVM partition (there might be none). So I guess it's the users responsibility to make regular backups, but perhaps we could put a note to do so in README.Debian So I support Martin's request that this (the cache) should move, and I also would like to see the backups/archives moved. Guess /var/backups/ is the right place for the former. What are the archives exactly used for? If we change the location, would we also have to patch lvmdump? Cheers, Chris. This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-rc-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#562234: Cache file location in violation of FHS
If Debian wants to have a go at moving these files about, there are settings available in lvm.conf to do that. But it's an unnecessary overhead, not trivial to get the scripts right, introduces new failure modes (and recovery paths) and you might do better discussing revising the FHS to cater better for programs required during startup. At Red Hat we recently moved some multipath-tools data from /var to /etc because it was causing us too many support problems. Arguably the backup and archive files would be better stored in a writeable non-lvm recovery-type partition (some folk may be happy with a writeable /boot partition - I consider /boot should be read-only), as you may want access to them in order to recover your root filesystem if it's using LVM. Last time I looked at the FHS it had not considered these "real world" sorts of requirements so it seemed quite reasonable to me to override it until someone improves it. Alasdair -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-rc-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#562234: Cache file location in violation of FHS
Dear Debian hackers, Am Donnerstag, den 24.12.2009, 15:52 +1300 schrieb martin f krafft: > /etc/lvm/cache should live in /var, not /etc, since it is > automatically maintained, and not a configuration file anyhow. If it > cannot live in /var because that might not be mounted, use > /lib/init/rw and then later move it. Next to `/etc/lvm/archive/` and `/etc/lvm/backup/` this was also reported in #372207 [1] and Alasdair wrote: »Cache is required for speed - tools can be very slow without it.«. Thanks, Paul [1] http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=372207 [2] http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=372207#15 signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil
Bug#562234: Cache file location in violation of FHS
Package: lvm2 Version: 2.02.54-1 Severity: serious /etc/lvm/cache should live in /var, not /etc, since it is automatically maintained, and not a configuration file anyhow. If it cannot live in /var because that might not be mounted, use /lib/init/rw and then later move it. -- System Information: Debian Release: squeeze/sid APT prefers unstable APT policy: (500, 'unstable'), (500, 'stable'), (1, 'experimental') Architecture: i386 (i686) Kernel: Linux 2.6.31-1-686 (SMP w/1 CPU core) Locale: LANG=en_GB, LC_CTYPE=en_GB.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8) Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash Versions of packages lvm2 depends on: ii dmsetup 2:1.02.39-1 The Linux Kernel Device Mapper use ii libc62.10.2-2GNU C Library: Shared libraries ii libdevmapper1.02.1 2:1.02.39-1 The Linux Kernel Device Mapper use ii libreadline5 5.2-7 GNU readline and history libraries ii lsb-base 3.2-23 Linux Standard Base 3.2 init scrip lvm2 recommends no packages. lvm2 suggests no packages. -- debconf-show failed -- .''`. martin f. krafft Related projects: : :' : proud Debian developer http://debiansystem.info `. `'` http://people.debian.org/~madduckhttp://vcs-pkg.org `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing systems digital_signature_gpg.asc Description: Digital signature (see http://martin-krafft.net/gpg/)
