Re: Ridiculously large packages

[Karl Goetz]

On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 23:45:15 +
Steve McIntyre  wrote:

> On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 08:49:07AM +1030, Karl Goetz wrote:
> >On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:21:27 +
> >Steve McIntyre  wrote:
> >> 
> >> and that caused the following packages to be removed because of
> >> dependencies:
> >
> >Could this say 'to be excluded' instead of 'to be removed'? I'm
> >worried it'll confuse people into thinking 'removed, what,
> >completely?'.
> 
> Doh! Of course. I had used "removed" twice originally then changed one
> but not the other... :-)

Thanks!
kk

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Re: Ridiculously large packages

[Steve McIntyre]

On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 08:49:07AM +1030, Karl Goetz wrote:
>On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:21:27 +
>Steve McIntyre  wrote:
>> 
>> And I now have code to generate the following as README.excluded on
>> CD1: (example from currently-running squeeze i386 CD run)
>> 
>> ==
>> For size reasons, the following packages were excluded from this disc
>> set:
>> 
>> nexuiz-data
>> openarena-data
>> 
>> and that caused the following packages to be removed because of
>> dependencies:
>
>Could this say 'to be excluded' instead of 'to be removed'? I'm worried
>it'll confuse people into thinking 'removed, what, completely?'.

Doh! Of course. I had used "removed" twice originally then changed one
but not the other... :-)

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And throw away the key
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Re: Ridiculously large packages somewhat Off Topic

[Bob Grabbe]

Is it just me or did anyone else think that the title of this thread was
suspiciously like a lot of spam that you get ?

- Original Message - 
From: "Karl Goetz" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 5:19 PM
Subject: Re: Ridiculously large packages



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Re: Ridiculously large packages

[Karl Goetz]

On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:21:27 +
Steve McIntyre  wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 04:18:54PM +, Steve McIntyre wrote:
> >On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 05:01:07PM +0100, Frans Pop wrote:
> >>On Friday 20 November 2009, Steve McIntyre wrote:
> >>> For now, I've added a cutoff of 300,000,000 bytes as a maximum
> >>> package size for adding to CDs. That means that the following 3
> >>> packages will be dropped from the squeeze CD builds:
> >>>
> >>>  306308472
> >>> pool/main/o/openarena-data/openarena-data_0.8.1-2_all.deb
> >>> 53450 pool/main/v/vtk/vtk-doc_5.2.1-11_all.deb 793400238
> >>> pool/main/n/nexuiz-data/nexuiz-data_2.5.2-1_all.deb
> >>>
> >>> The debian-cd code will automatically pick up on dependencies
> >>> too, so any packages that *depend* on these will also be dropped.
> >>
> >>Would it be possible to generate a list of excluded packages and
> >>add that as a README on CD1?
> >
> >Good idea, yes.
> 
> And I now have code to generate the following as README.excluded on
> CD1: (example from currently-running squeeze i386 CD run)
> 
> ==
> For size reasons, the following packages were excluded from this disc
> set:
> 
> nexuiz-data
> openarena-data
> 
> and that caused the following packages to be removed because of
> dependencies:

Could this say 'to be excluded' instead of 'to be removed'? I'm worried
it'll confuse people into thinking 'removed, what, completely?'.
Thanks,
kk

> ==
> 


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Re: Ridiculously large packages

[Steve McIntyre]

On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 04:18:54PM +, Steve McIntyre wrote:
>On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 05:01:07PM +0100, Frans Pop wrote:
>>On Friday 20 November 2009, Steve McIntyre wrote:
>>> For now, I've added a cutoff of 300,000,000 bytes as a maximum package
>>> size for adding to CDs. That means that the following 3 packages will
>>> be dropped from the squeeze CD builds:
>>>
>>>  306308472 pool/main/o/openarena-data/openarena-data_0.8.1-2_all.deb
>>>  53450 pool/main/v/vtk/vtk-doc_5.2.1-11_all.deb
>>>  793400238 pool/main/n/nexuiz-data/nexuiz-data_2.5.2-1_all.deb
>>>
>>> The debian-cd code will automatically pick up on dependencies too, so
>>> any packages that *depend* on these will also be dropped.
>>
>>Would it be possible to generate a list of excluded packages and add that 
>>as a README on CD1?
>
>Good idea, yes.

And I now have code to generate the following as README.excluded on
CD1: (example from currently-running squeeze i386 CD run)

==
For size reasons, the following packages were excluded from this disc set:

nexuiz-data
openarena-data

and that caused the following packages to be removed because of dependencies:

nexuiz
nexuiz-dbg
nexuiz-server
nexuiz-server-dbg
openarena
openarena-server
==

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Bug#557245: large packages dropped from CDs

[Holger Levsen]

package: release-notes
x-debbugs-cc: debian-cd@lists.debian.org, debian-de...@lists.debian.org

On Freitag, 20. November 2009, Steve McIntyre wrote:
> For now, I've added a cutoff of 300,000,000 bytes as a maximum package
> size for adding to CDs. That means that the following 3 packages will
> be dropped from the squeeze CD builds:
>
>  306308472 pool/main/o/openarena-data/openarena-data_0.8.1-2_all.deb
>  53450 pool/main/v/vtk/vtk-doc_5.2.1-11_all.deb
>  793400238 pool/main/n/nexuiz-data/nexuiz-data_2.5.2-1_all.deb
>
> The debian-cd code will automatically pick up on dependencies too, so
> any packages that *depend* on these will also be dropped.
>
> For DVD and BD disks we'll accept any size (for now).
>
> This should also be added to the release notes, please.

On Freitag, 20. November 2009, Frans Pop wrote:
> Would it be possible to generate a list of excluded packages and add that
> as a README on CD1?


cheers,
Holger


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Re: Ridiculously large packages

[Mathieu Malaterre]

On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Frans Pop  wrote:
> On Friday 20 November 2009, Steve McIntyre wrote:
>> If you ever want this to be available on Debian CDs, you're going to
>> have to do something about the size. For now, I'm going to blacklist
>> this package altogether.
>
> Even though they do technically still fit on a CD, you may want to consider
> excluding the following packages as well, as including them essentially
> means having roughly 4 CD images dedicated to 9 packages.
>
> 53450 vtk-doc_5.2.1-11_all.deb

Slightly off topic, but I have been login some recommendations to
divide the size of this package by at least a factor of 2.

Reference (will be updated whenever tracking system process my mail) :
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?package=vtk-doc

Cheers
-- 
Mathieu


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Re: nexuiz-data does not fit on a single CD

[Gustavo Noronha Silva]

On Fri, 2009-11-20 at 16:47 +0100, Mike Hommey wrote:
> It surely is a bug for those who care about CDs. But Zack's point is:
> should it be RC, normal, minor, or wontfix ?

minor =)

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Debian


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Re: Ridiculously large packages

[Steve McIntyre]

On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 05:01:07PM +0100, Frans Pop wrote:
>On Friday 20 November 2009, Steve McIntyre wrote:
>> For now, I've added a cutoff of 300,000,000 bytes as a maximum package
>> size for adding to CDs. That means that the following 3 packages will
>> be dropped from the squeeze CD builds:
>>
>>  306308472 pool/main/o/openarena-data/openarena-data_0.8.1-2_all.deb
>>  53450 pool/main/v/vtk/vtk-doc_5.2.1-11_all.deb
>>  793400238 pool/main/n/nexuiz-data/nexuiz-data_2.5.2-1_all.deb
>>
>> The debian-cd code will automatically pick up on dependencies too, so
>> any packages that *depend* on these will also be dropped.
>
>Would it be possible to generate a list of excluded packages and add that 
>as a README on CD1?

Good idea, yes.

-- 
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"C++ ate my sanity" -- Jon Rabone


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Re: nexuiz-data does not fit on a single CD

[Mike Hommey]

On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 01:33:29PM -0200, Gustavo Noronha Silva wrote:
> On Fri, 2009-11-20 at 15:23 +0100, Bernd Zeimetz wrote:
> > Ack. People which use computers which did not came with a DVD reader built 
> > in
> > are probably not able to play nexuiz anyway as it needs a pretty fastCPU and
> > graphics card to be fun :)
> 
> Well, you see, my current computer (Lenovo x200s) does not have an
> optical drive at all. I had to install Debian using an usb stick. It
> does have a fast enough CPU and graphics card to play nexuiz though,
> mind you.
> 
> My point is that the fact that our packages are showing the age of the
> media we still want to support should not be a bug.

It surely is a bug for those who care about CDs. But Zack's point is:
should it be RC, normal, minor, or wontfix ?

Mike


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Re: Ridiculously large packages

[Frans Pop]

On Friday 20 November 2009, Steve McIntyre wrote:
> For now, I've added a cutoff of 300,000,000 bytes as a maximum package
> size for adding to CDs. That means that the following 3 packages will
> be dropped from the squeeze CD builds:
>
>  306308472 pool/main/o/openarena-data/openarena-data_0.8.1-2_all.deb
>  53450 pool/main/v/vtk/vtk-doc_5.2.1-11_all.deb
>  793400238 pool/main/n/nexuiz-data/nexuiz-data_2.5.2-1_all.deb
>
> The debian-cd code will automatically pick up on dependencies too, so
> any packages that *depend* on these will also be dropped.

Would it be possible to generate a list of excluded packages and add that 
as a README on CD1?


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Re: nexuiz-data does not fit on a single CD

[Steve McIntyre]

On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 02:00:18PM +0100, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
>Package: nexuiz-data
>Version: 2.5.2-1
>Severity: serious
>
>Any reason for not reporting this as a proper bug? Doing that with this
>post.

True, should have done that too. Thanks. :-)

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Re: nexuiz-data does not fit on a single CD

[Gustavo Noronha Silva]

On Fri, 2009-11-20 at 15:23 +0100, Bernd Zeimetz wrote:
> Ack. People which use computers which did not came with a DVD reader built in
> are probably not able to play nexuiz anyway as it needs a pretty fastCPU and
> graphics card to be fun :)

Well, you see, my current computer (Lenovo x200s) does not have an
optical drive at all. I had to install Debian using an usb stick. It
does have a fast enough CPU and graphics card to play nexuiz though,
mind you.

My point is that the fact that our packages are showing the age of the
media we still want to support should not be a bug.

See you,

-- 
Gustavo Noronha Silva 
Debian


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Re: Ridiculously large packages

[Steve McIntyre]

On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 04:21:21PM +0100, Frans Pop wrote:
>On Friday 20 November 2009, Steve McIntyre wrote:
>> If you ever want this to be available on Debian CDs, you're going to
>> have to do something about the size. For now, I'm going to blacklist
>> this package altogether.
>
>Even though they do technically still fit on a CD, you may want to consider 
>excluding the following packages as well, as including them essentially 
>means having roughly 4 CD images dedicated to 9 packages.
>
>53450 vtk-doc_5.2.1-11_all.deb
>395642608 root-system-doc_5.24.00-1_all.deb
>357422076 sauerbraten-data_0.0.20090504-1_all.deb
>306308472 openarena-data_0.8.1-2_all.deb
>250166552 fgfs-base_1.9.0-1_all.deb
>235440078 kwwidgets-doc_1.0.0~cvs20090825-2_all.deb
>220393788 alien-arena-data_7.0-1_all.deb
>211831974 fgfs-base_1.0.0-2_all.deb
>206728944 ember-media_0.5.7-1_all.deb
>
>The selection was size >2 from:
>.../debian/pool$ ls -lR | grep "\.deb$" | awk '{print $5 " " $8}' | \
>   sort -rn | head -n 25

For now, I've added a cutoff of 300,000,000 bytes as a maximum package
size for adding to CDs. That means that the following 3 packages will
be dropped from the squeeze CD builds:

 306308472 pool/main/o/openarena-data/openarena-data_0.8.1-2_all.deb
 53450 pool/main/v/vtk/vtk-doc_5.2.1-11_all.deb
 793400238 pool/main/n/nexuiz-data/nexuiz-data_2.5.2-1_all.deb

The debian-cd code will automatically pick up on dependencies too, so
any packages that *depend* on these will also be dropped.

For DVD and BD disks we'll accept any size (for now).

This should also be added to the release notes, please.

-- 
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.st...@einval.com
"It's actually quite entertaining to watch ag129 prop his foot up on
 the desk so he can get a better aim."  [ seen in ucam.chat ]


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Re: Ridiculously large packages

[Frans Pop]

On Friday 20 November 2009, Steve McIntyre wrote:
> If you ever want this to be available on Debian CDs, you're going to
> have to do something about the size. For now, I'm going to blacklist
> this package altogether.

Even though they do technically still fit on a CD, you may want to consider 
excluding the following packages as well, as including them essentially 
means having roughly 4 CD images dedicated to 9 packages.

53450 vtk-doc_5.2.1-11_all.deb
395642608 root-system-doc_5.24.00-1_all.deb
357422076 sauerbraten-data_0.0.20090504-1_all.deb
306308472 openarena-data_0.8.1-2_all.deb
250166552 fgfs-base_1.9.0-1_all.deb
235440078 kwwidgets-doc_1.0.0~cvs20090825-2_all.deb
220393788 alien-arena-data_7.0-1_all.deb
211831974 fgfs-base_1.0.0-2_all.deb
206728944 ember-media_0.5.7-1_all.deb

The selection was size >2 from:
.../debian/pool$ ls -lR | grep "\.deb$" | awk '{print $5 " " $8}' | \
sort -rn | head -n 25

Cheers,
FJP


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Re: nexuiz-data does not fit on a single CD

[Gustavo Noronha Silva]

On Fri, 2009-11-20 at 14:00 +0100, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
>   the Debian CD team (in the person of Steve McIntyre) has noted the
> enormous size of nexuiz-data, which means the package won't fit on a
> single CD. I'm setting severity serious because this de facto means the
> package cannot be distributed to our CD users. I agree that the severity
> can be controversial since we have other ways of distributing packages;
> feel free to downgrade, better if after discussion with the release team
> (even better by reducing the size ;-))

This is silly. I haven't seen bug reports about packages not fitting in
diskettes, and it would not make any sense if they were filed! =).

The world moved on, CDs are getting too small. It's a technical
limitation which can be overcome by using the network, or bigger media,
such as DVDs. While I think blacklisting the package for CDs is a
pragmatical decision, making the package smaller should be just
desirable, not a (specially RC!) bug.

See you,

-- 
Gustavo Noronha Silva 
Debian


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Re: nexuiz-data does not fit on a single CD

[Ben Armstrong]

On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:59:07 -0200
Gustavo Noronha Silva  wrote:
> On Fri, 2009-11-20 at 14:00 +0100, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
> This is silly. I haven't seen bug reports about packages not fitting in
> diskettes, and it would not make any sense if they were filed! =).

I thought this was why we had dpkg-split, so not exactly the same
problem.

> The world moved on, CDs are getting too small. It's a technical
> limitation which can be overcome by using the network, or bigger media,
> such as DVDs. While I think blacklisting the package for CDs is a
> pragmatical decision, making the package smaller should be just
> desirable, not a (specially RC!) bug.

Or supporting dpkg-split for this case too?  But probably not worth the
effort for just a handful of packages that arguably would benefit from
being broken into more manageable-sized packages anyway.

Ben
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Re: nexuiz-data does not fit on a single CD

[Bernd Zeimetz]

Gustavo Noronha Silva wrote:
> On Fri, 2009-11-20 at 14:00 +0100, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
>>   the Debian CD team (in the person of Steve McIntyre) has noted the
>> enormous size of nexuiz-data, which means the package won't fit on a
>> single CD. I'm setting severity serious because this de facto means the
>> package cannot be distributed to our CD users. I agree that the severity
>> can be controversial since we have other ways of distributing packages;
>> feel free to downgrade, better if after discussion with the release team
>> (even better by reducing the size ;-))
> 
> This is silly. I haven't seen bug reports about packages not fitting in
> diskettes, and it would not make any sense if they were filed! =).
> 
> The world moved on, CDs are getting too small. It's a technical
> limitation which can be overcome by using the network, or bigger media,
> such as DVDs. While I think blacklisting the package for CDs is a
> pragmatical decision, making the package smaller should be just
> desirable, not a (specially RC!) bug.

Ack. People which use computers which did not came with a DVD reader built in
are probably not able to play nexuiz anyway as it needs a pretty fastCPU and
graphics card to be fun :)


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nexuiz-data does not fit on a single CD

[Stefano Zacchiroli]

Package: nexuiz-data
Version: 2.5.2-1
Severity: serious

Any reason for not reporting this as a proper bug? Doing that with this
post.

On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 10:36:10AM +, Steve McIntyre wrote:
> Umm...
> 
> Package: nexuiz-data
> Installed-Size: 782252

Dear maintainer,
  the Debian CD team (in the person of Steve McIntyre) has noted the
enormous size of nexuiz-data, which means the package won't fit on a
single CD. I'm setting severity serious because this de facto means the
package cannot be distributed to our CD users. I agree that the severity
can be controversial since we have other ways of distributing packages;
feel free to downgrade, better if after discussion with the release team
(even better by reducing the size ;-))

Cheers.

-- 
Stefano Zacchiroli -o- PhD in Computer Science \ PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7
z...@{upsilon.cc,pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -<>- http://upsilon.cc/zack/
Dietro un grande uomo c'è ..|  .  |. Et ne m'en veux pas si je te tutoie
sempre uno zaino ...| ..: | Je dis tu à tous ceux que j'aime


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Re: Ridiculously large packages

[Cyril Brulebois]

Cyril Brulebois  (20/11/2009):
> And you didn't see Urban Terror and its 700+ MB yet! Speaking of
> which, what's the status of data.debian.org? IIRC, it's been in the
> pipe for 2+ years at the very least (was already mentioned during
> DC'07). :)

OOH. http://ftp-master.debian.org/wiki/projects/data/

Mraw,
KiBi.


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Re: Ridiculously large packages

[Michelle Konzack]

Am 2009-11-20 10:36:10, schrieb Steve McIntyre:
> Umm...
> 
> Package: nexuiz-data

> Size: 793400238
> 
> If you ever want this to be available on Debian CDs, you're going to
> have to do something about the size. For now, I'm going to blacklist
> this package altogether.

Does Debian realy continue to offer CD's in the future?
I have already problems to get one...  :-/
Where ever you go, you can find DVD.

Note:   The OpenSource Game I am working on  with  a  group
will be never distributed on a CD because there are
already over 10 files bigger then a  800 MByte  CD.
Maybe on 50 GByte BlueRay medias.  :-D

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening
Michelle Konzack
Systemadministrator
Tamay Dogan Network
Debian GNU/Linux Consultant

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Re: Ridiculously large packages

[Cyril Brulebois]

Steve McIntyre  (20/11/2009):
> If you ever want this to be available on Debian CDs, you're going to
> have to do something about the size. For now, I'm going to blacklist
> this package altogether.

And you didn't see Urban Terror and its 700+ MB yet! Speaking of
which, what's the status of data.debian.org? IIRC, it's been in the
pipe for 2+ years at the very least (was already mentioned during
DC'07). :)

Mraw,
KiBi.


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Ridiculously large packages

[Steve McIntyre]

Umm...

Package: nexuiz-data
Priority: optional
Section: games
Installed-Size: 782252
Maintainer: Debian Games Team

Architecture: all
Version: 2.5.2-1
Recommends: nexuiz (>= 2.5.2) | nexuiz-server (>= 2.5.2)
Suggests: nexuiz-music (>= 2.5.2)
Conflicts: nexuiz (<< 2.5.2), nexuiz-server (<< 2.5.2)
Filename: pool/main/n/nexuiz-data/nexuiz-data_2.5.2-1_all.deb
Size: 793400238
...

If you ever want this to be available on Debian CDs, you're going to
have to do something about the size. For now, I'm going to blacklist
this package altogether.

-- 
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< sladen> I actually stayed in a hotel and arrived to find a post-it
  note stuck to the mini-bar saying "Paul: This fridge and
  fittings are the correct way around and do not need altering"


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