Re: 2.2r3 test images
On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, Bernd Hentig wrote: Well, nowadays 700 MB CD-R are even cheaper than 650 MB, so I really don't mind. Is there any *real* reason why the 650 MB limit is still kept ? I mean, 700 MB CD-R can be read by all modern CDROM drives except 1x/2x proprietary drives from about 10 years ago. Ok, I understand Pentium processors also have to be compatible with 8088 since there is so many software written for 8088, but does it really affect more than 0.001 % of all users ? Few people are aware that many of our old machines have ended up in developing countries, esp. through the many partnerships that schools/ universities have with similar institutions there. From what I've heard, Linux is quite popular there, because it has practically no hardware requirements. IMHO it would be wrong to add requirements when we can easily avoid that. I think your affected 0.001% is quite a bit too low -- however you don't generally hear of those users because they're not only a few years behind on hardware, but also on net connectivity. (BTW, as a .nl CD vendor I'm still burning 650MB CD-Rs, because _quality_ 700MB's are still more expensive here.) Regards, Anne Bezemer -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: 2.2r3 test images
On 26 Apr 2001, Mark Eichin wrote: I'd agree with keeping the standard limit (though if the automation eventually got to the point where you could just feed it a media size paramater, that would rock for building zip, jaz, orb, 700M-cd, flash-card, or other install images. There are a media-size parameters (for each generated image), but you still get an iso9660 image and most people wouldn't expect that on a zip disk or flash card ;-) Regards, Anne Bezemer -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: 2.2r3 test images
On Mon, 7 May 2001, J.A. Bezemer wrote: Few people are aware that many of our old machines have ended up in developing countries, esp. through the many partnerships that schools/ universities have with similar institutions there. From what I've heard, Linux is quite popular there, because it has practically no hardware requirements. IMHO it would be wrong to add requirements when we can easily avoid that. I think your affected 0.001% is quite a bit too low -- however you don't generally hear of those users because they're not only a few years behind on hardware, but also on net connectivity. This is also true of the Fourth World, the micro nations of the Pacific. (BTW, as a .nl CD vendor I'm still burning 650MB CD-Rs, because _quality_ 700MB's are still more expensive here.) I have just used up the last of a batch of 700 MB discs and I will not be using them again. Phil. - Philip Charles; 39a Paterson St., Dunedin, New Zealand; +64 3 4882818 Mobile 025 267 9420. I sell GNU/Linux CDs. See http://www.copyleft.co.nz [EMAIL PROTECTED] - preferred. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: 2.2r3 test images
On Mon 07 May, Alexander Skwar wrote: So sprach Philip Charles am Mon, May 07, 2001 at 12:26:07PM +: I have just used up the last of a batch of 700 MB discs and I will not be using them again. Uhm - how do you measure the quality of a CDR? I'm also a small vendor, and use cheap (? 1,- DM (USD 0,45)) 700 MB CDR's - upto now I've not experienced any problem at all, and also none of my customers has complained about the CDRs I use. I've found some people can't always read our CDs (written at 10-speed), but if I burn them slower (4 speed) they sometimes can - if this happens it seems to mean that the reading CD drive is getting a bit 'tired' - sometimes they just can't read them at all at any speed. And I've come across CDRs that will only write to expensive CDR media not cheap ones. These things are rare enough that's it's not clear what is incompatible with what and as it's a statistical measure it's hard to say how much (if at all) it depends on the cost of the CDR media. Wookey -- Aleph One Ltd, Bottisham, CAMBRIDGE, CB5 9BA, UK Tel (00 44) 1223 811679 work: http://www.aleph1.co.uk/ play: http://www.chaos.org.uk/~wookey/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: 2.2r3 test images
On Mon, 7 May 2001, Alexander Skwar wrote: So sprach Philip Charles am Mon, May 07, 2001 at 12:26:07PM +: I have just used up the last of a batch of 700 MB discs and I will not be using them again. Uhm - how do you measure the quality of a CDR? I'm also a small vendor, and use cheap (? 1,- DM (USD 0,45)) 700 MB CDR's - upto now I've not experienced any problem at all, and also none of my customers has complained about the CDRs I use. The number of coasters. My burner x8 burner (iomega) will drop its speed if it does not like the media. It dropped to x2 for 700 MB. On another el cheapo brand it dropped to x4 and produced coasters. With high quality 650 media, Verbatim - Mitsubishi, no problems. Who is the manufacturer of yours? Phil. - Philip Charles; 39a Paterson St., Dunedin, New Zealand; +64 3 4882818 Mobile 025 267 9420. I sell GNU/Linux CDs. See http://www.copyleft.co.nz [EMAIL PROTECTED] - preferred. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: 2.2r3 test images
Hi it seems that the debian 2.2rev3 is coming out now. I am looking with rsync -avH rsync://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd I am copyng the images in my mirror. rsync -avH rsync://aurolinux.mit.edu/ Stefano -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: 2.2r3 test images
Bernd Hentig [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hello Hi, You'll be pleased to hear that I gave open.hands.com (a.k.a cdimage.debian.org) a brain transplant today, so instead of being an Athlon on a VIA chipset motherboard, it's now a PIII 750, on an Intel chipset, with 512MB of new RAM That means you have *downgraded* the system ? Nah -- it was an Athlon 650 which I'd guess is supposed to be slower, unless you're saying any migration to Intel is a downgrade by definition? Regardless of theoretical comparisons, the PIII seems to be driving the disks something like 3 times faster during the mkisofs, for example (this is purely a subjective measure, by watching it, so is probably wildly inaccurate) What was the reason for this decision ? The old Athlon/VIA combo was flakier than a snowstorm when moving a lot of data from/to the disks. To the extent that I don't think it managed to create more than 3 CD images in a row without crashing, but worse than that, it was flipping bits coming of off the disks about once every 200MB (i.e. 3 or 4 bad bits per CD) which also makes one wonder what people were downloading from the archive. This was with every combination of 2.2.17/2.2.19/2.4.3/2.4.3-ac11, DMA on/off, IDE1 in use or not, etc. that i could think of in about 7 hours of sodding about trying to get it stable. So that's why I made that decision. I know that there have been problems with VIA chipsets on Athlon mainboards, but these should have gone with kernel 2.4.3 ? Bzzt. wrong --- unless of course all this was caused by an unrelated hardware fault, but the reported symptoms seem to match what's been reported, and I tried it with the latest -ac11 patch, so I think it's not been fixed. What do people think about this? This matches the (slightly broken) state of the main archive at present, so either I kludge debian-cd to exclude bulkmail, or we wait (and wait?) for the archive to be fixed. What is the difference between bulkmail and bulk_mailer from majordomo ? No idea --- don't really care to be honest. Please report how you get on with these images, because the sooner I get positive feadback, the sooner i can declare them official. Cheers, Phil. P.S. I just noticed that the alpha CDs came out with a 698865664 byte CD 1_NONUS, which is too big, so I'll have to re-do them. Well, nowadays 700 MB CD-R are even cheaper than 650 MB, so I really don't mind. Is there any *real* reason why the 650 MB limit is still kept ? I mean, 700 MB CD-R can be read by all modern CDROM drives except 1x/2x proprietary drives from about 10 years ago. Ok, I understand Pentium processors also have to be compatible with 8088 since there is so many software written for 8088, but does it really affect more than 0.001 % of all users ? I've no idea, but I'd guess that there might be a problem pressing larger CDs in bulk --- would someone that actually presses CDs in bulk care to enlighten us? As it happens, we can fit the CDs onto 3x650 per architecture at present, so we might as well, because otherwise we just have a slightly emptier CD#3, but the extra space could be handy in future, so could anyone that knows a good reason not to go to 700MB / image in the future, please tell us what it is. I'm only aware that the new CD-R 90/99 may pose some problems on modern drives and that the CD-R 144/200 need a BIOS or even laser upgrade to be read successfully. Maybe it's time for a Debian DVD ;-) (yes, I will test this with debian-cd once I can get hold of a DVD-R burner or compatible DVD-RW) Apparently making DVDs poses interesting problems because of the 2GB file size limit. I hear there is a solution, but didn't find out what it was. Cheers, Phil. -- Say no to software patents! http://petition.eurolinux.org/ Philip Hands. +44 (0)20 7744 6244 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Alcove -- Liberating Software http://www.alcove.com/ http://www.hands.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.uk.debian.org/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: 2.2r3 test images
James Troup [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Philip Hands [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What do people think about this? This matches the (slightly broken) state of the main archive at present, so either I kludge debian-cd to exclude bulkmail, or we wait (and wait?) for the archive to be fixed. As I (IIRC) said on IRC, I'd suggest you kludge debian-cd or exclude bulkmail; fixing the archive (without breaking anything else) is non-trivial unfortunately and combined with my current lack of free time I'm not likely to get it done e.g. this week, I'm afraid. True --- I'll do that then (which means there'll be new images turning up over the next few hours. Cheers, Phil. -- Say no to software patents! http://petition.eurolinux.org/ Philip Hands. +44 (0)20 7744 6244 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Alcove -- Liberating Software http://www.alcove.com/ http://www.hands.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.uk.debian.org/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: 2.2r3 test images
On 26 Apr 2001, Philip Hands wrote: I've no idea, but I'd guess that there might be a problem pressing larger CDs in bulk --- would someone that actually presses CDs in bulk care to enlighten us? As it happens, we can fit the CDs onto 3x650 per architecture at present, so we might as well, because otherwise we just have a slightly emptier CD#3, but the extra space could be handy in future, so could anyone that knows a good reason not to go to 700MB / image in the future, please tell us what it is. Cheers, Phil. 10 % of my customers use old cdrom drives. They need 650 MB CD because it can not read 700 MB CD. Debian has a lot of the smart old timers. They like Debian because it is smart enough to let people in without a high barrier to entry. 1500 US for a brand new machine with all of the whizbangs is a high barrier to entry. Mexico and Spain would be on M$ if we demand that you get a new machine. Cheers, Bill Bennet. Where the only monopoly we support has a Boardwalk and a Baltic Avenue. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: 2.2r3 test images
www.compgeeks.com; look under systems in the sidebar... http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=GEN603 $284, though it has a winmodem (which I pulled, and installed a $9 asound ethernet card from elsewhere on compgeeks) (I have no connection with compgeeks - I've just bought a half dozen systems from them. It's amazing how cheap you can run a startup company if you're motivated :-) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: 2.2r3 test images
So sprach Philip Charles am Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 10:51:40PM +: Burn the DVDs from the file system using a mkhybrid | cdrecord pipe? Uhm, why not first write it to disk? Alexander Skwar -- How to quote: http://learn.to/quote (german) http://quote.6x.to (english) Homepage: http://www.digitalprojects.com | http://www.iso-top.de iso-top.de - Die günstige Art an Linux Distributionen zu kommen Uptime: 2 days 10 hours 42 minutes -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: 2.2r3 test images
On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, Alexander Skwar wrote: So sprach Philip Charles am Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 10:51:40PM +: Burn the DVDs from the file system using a mkhybrid | cdrecord pipe? Uhm, why not first write it to disk? Now that there does not seem to be a file size limit, it saves HDD space. Hard links and all that. Phil. - Philip Charles; 39a Paterson St., Dunedin, New Zealand; +64 3 4882818 Mobile 025 267 9420. I sell GNU/Linux CDs. See http://www.copyleft.co.nz [EMAIL PROTECTED] - preferred. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: 2.2r3 test images
I'd agree with keeping the standard limit (though if the automation eventually got to the point where you could just feed it a media size paramater, that would rock for building zip, jaz, orb, 700M-cd, flash-card, or other install images. But it would *merely* be cool - I don't think there's much justification for convincing anyone else to do the work :-) Older 700M media was also sometimes a bit out-of-tolerance and didn't burn reliably on the higher speeds of some burners; not as much of a problem right now, but it has come up. ps. 1500US for a brand new machine? bah. I tend to buy 6-month-stale machines on compgeeks, so $350 for a decent (600mhz or greater, 10g/64M) mini tower without monitor - pop in a debian cd, instant server. For a desktop machine I throw in more memory (for running netscape :( -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
