Re: Bug#532515: on making decisions vs letting things happen
On Sun, Jul 05, 2009 at 03:53:06PM +0200, Frans Pop wrote: On Sunday 05 July 2009, Frans Pop wrote: I must say that I'm not at all sure that the change to include Recommends wasn't done prematurely or too lightly. It is quite likely to also affect the server tasks in quite a big way and could have a major impact on the contents of CD images if not handled correctly. So does that mean you feel that the policy manual's description of Recommends is wrong, or that Debian installations should be unusual by default? Realistically, either (a) the Recommends were correct or (b) nobody was going to bother fixing them until they started being installed by default as policy says they should be. It's one thing to say that something is premature, but the previous situation was just a deadlock. I also feel it is rather inconsistent to have tasksel install Recommends while debootstrap and base-installer do not. debootstrap is a slightly odd case (because it's also used to construct explicitly minimal systems, in which case the rules seem different) and I've long been unsure about how it should behave. Maybe it just needs an option for it. I think it's more important for tasksel to be consistent with the default configuration of apt than with how the base system is installed, though. -- Colin Watson [cjwat...@debian.org] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-cd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Bug#532515: on making decisions vs letting things happen
(Adding d-cd to CCs.) On Sunday 05 July 2009, Josselin Mouette wrote: Le samedi 04 juillet 2009 à 16:46 -0400, Joey Hess a écrit : * After stable was released, many more maintainers began assuming recommends would be installed by default. These recommends had to be manually noticed and tracked in tasksel. IIRC there was a case where the omission of a recommended package could have potentially left X nearly unusable. (Don't remember the details.) [...] At this point it became clear to me that it was time to make tasksel install recommends by default, since manually tracking them in tasks wasn't feasable going forward[2]. * At that point, I reviewed packages that were only in task lists due to being recommended, and removed them. This had a nice benefit in simplifying the gnome-desktop task[1]. [...] I agree that feedback from the CD team would be nice. I’ll ask them to do a simulation once the GNOME 2.26 metapackages are ready. Anyway fitting all of this on the first CD is out of question. The primary package still being gnome-desktop-environment, I guess we should focus the size efforts on this one and ensure it can still fit on one CD. The first full DVD needs to be considered too. It's supposed to support installing all four desktop environments without the use of a mirror. In general debian-cd may need to be modified as AFAIK currently it does not consider Recommends at all when deciding which packages to include on which CD. It might be an option to extend d-cds functionality in such a way that Recommends do get considered, but only _after_ dependencies for all tasks relevant for a CD/DVD set. I must say that I'm not at all sure that the change to include Recommends wasn't done prematurely or too lightly. It is quite likely to also affect the server tasks in quite a big way and could have a major impact on the contents of CD images if not handled correctly. I also wonder what impact it will have on the total installed size of the different desktop environments and server tasks as documented in the manual. Quite likely testing task installs in emulators will be a bigger pain than it already is and the available space check in tasksel for the desktop task will probably need adjustment (4GB instead of the current 3GB?). One option could of course be to not change d-cds functionality at all and only install Recommends if available (either from additional CDs or a mirror), which does seem to fit its purpose. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-cd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Bug#532515: on making decisions vs letting things happen
On Sunday 05 July 2009, Frans Pop wrote: I must say that I'm not at all sure that the change to include Recommends wasn't done prematurely or too lightly. It is quite likely to also affect the server tasks in quite a big way and could have a major impact on the contents of CD images if not handled correctly. I also feel it is rather inconsistent to have tasksel install Recommends while debootstrap and base-installer do not. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-cd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
