Re: debian cd image download website
Maximilian Haeussler,+33612827616 On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 9:45 AM, GONG Jie gongjie@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 8:23 PM, Maximilian Haeussler maximili...@gmail.com wrote: the debian website is horribly complicated for beginners who just want to give debian a try. One example: http://www.debian.org/CD/netinst/ (...) There needs to be some minimal advice on the website (directly, not in the FAQ or some obscure manual) which image to select for people that do not know all processor architecture names by heart, i.e. most of us who are not experts in the history of the Intel family and the whole chip industry. It is simply not very straightforward to select AMD if you just bought Intel. Please read the installation guide before you are doing installation. [1] http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/installmanual No. It is the other way round: One has to SELECT your architecture to read an installation guide. Users who do not know their architecture do not know which installation guide they should read. They will definitely look into AMD if they bought Intel. This architecture problem is bugging me since the introduction of IA64. Read the Debian ports page [2], if you are use other then i386. This page do have a note in the IA-64 section. IA-64 is not EM64T. [2] http://www.debian.org/ports/ a) There is no link to the ports page from the downloads page. So users cannot easily find it. b) Thanks, but I can read wikipedia myself. It did not have a question. It was a suggestion for future improvement of the debian website. Here are some discussions on forums and debian-user of people that ran into exactly this problem. Please note that all these discussions could have been avoided by adding one single sentence explaining that most users with a modern processor should choose AMD64. http://osdir.com/ml/*debian*-user-*debian*/2009-05/msg01471.html www.nabble.com/Which-*Debian*-for-*Intel*-Core2Duo-td19611014.html linkhttp://omgili.com/jmp/7aBdisT0NOrtJyaR5tC034cGIDdIIxzUpStbTgLeW67TaLOrASNr9XGzbMLThQcofPq7lB5gdLjlRQq0VaTNnyWkE5Mnh8eaR9tLMiontr3Tq6Q56sZg4doRTcEKjwPxpbUOUdPjCwI.ZCIClMYDtwauUp9t.GhOtsGkCnyLc5JckEE5KkcLOcnrKx5.PJDn See also this bug: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=421338 So the debian installer developers are aware of the problem. I admit that a double-architecture torito CD is one (technical) solution. But the problem could be solved so easily with just 1 or 2 more sentences on the website! BTW, debian-cd@lists.debian.org is not the proper mailing-list for this question. You may send to debian-am...@lists.debian.org or debian-u...@lists.debian.org. No, debian-user is for questions on debian. I did not have a question. It might be possible that debian-cd might not be the right mailing list. But if the mailing address in the footer of a page is not responsible for this webpage: Can anyone tell me how to reach the people that manage this part of the debian website? Thanks Max -- Regards, GONG Jie (龚颉) Email: n...@mamiyami.com
Re: debian cd image download website
On Wednesday 16 September 2009, Maximilian Haeussler wrote: Please read the installation guide before you are doing installation. [1] http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/installmanual No. It is the other way round: One has to SELECT your architecture to read an installation guide. Users who do not know their architecture do not know which installation guide they should read. They will definitely look into AMD if they bought Intel. This architecture problem is bugging me since the introduction of IA64. The installation guide _does_ mention this though. It can be seen both in the architecture table http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch02s01.html.en#id2756248 and in the section on CPU support just below that: http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch02s01.html.en#id2756691 I've just added an explicit caution in the version for IA64. Cheers, FJP -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-cd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: debian cd image download website
On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 1:25 PM, Frans Pop elen...@planet.nl wrote: On Wednesday 16 September 2009, Maximilian Haeussler wrote: Please read the installation guide before you are doing installation. [1] http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/installmanual No. It is the other way round: One has to SELECT your architecture to read an installation guide. Users who do not know their architecture do not know which installation guide they should read. They will definitely look into AMD if they bought Intel. This architecture problem is bugging me since the introduction of IA64. The installation guide _does_ mention this though. It can be seen both in the architecture table http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch02s01.html.en#id2756248 and in the section on CPU support just below that: http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch02s01.html.en#id2756691 - The architecture table does not say what EM64T is though being the first and only document that someone who is installing debian will consult. The architecture table should mention that AMD64 is the currently most common form of processor. Something along the lines: When in doubt... / You probably want... / If you don't know what to select here, please read ... ) (if you have a non-Itanium processor... - The section on CPU support does not say that all new Intel desktop processors are EM64T. It does not explain EM64T. - But: There is whole PARAGRAPH + a FOOTNOTE on stupid 386 processors that really no one cares about since 10 years! However, Debian GNU/Linux lenny will *not* run on 386 or earlier processors. Despite the architecture name i386, support for actual 80386 processors (and their clones) was dropped with the Sarge (r3.1) release of Debian[2 #ftn.id2756732]. (No version of Linux has ever supported the 286 or earlier chips in the series.) I've just added an explicit caution in the version for IA64. Thanks for the caution. It seems that this caution used to be there some time ago already from what I can see from the forum discussions. I think a similar caution would be also important on other pages: - http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/installmanual should link to a page where the different architectures are explained (If you do not know what these acronyms mean, see xxx...) A simple use case: You are a new user and type debian.org. You click on Getting Debian. You think Easy!. You click Download an image. Bump. You're stuck. No mentions of what to select then. No link to an explanation of the different architectures. cheers Max
debian cd image download website
Hallo, the debian website is horribly complicated for beginners who just want to give debian a try. One example: http://www.debian.org/CD/netinst/ I studied computer science, obtained a PhD, started using linux in 1995 and just downloaded again the wrong netinst image (IA64), burnt it and could't boot my workstation from it. There needs to be some minimal advice on the website (directly, not in the FAQ or some obscure manual) which image to select for people that do not know all processor architecture names by heart, i.e. most of us who are not experts in the history of the Intel family and the whole chip industry. It is simply not very straightforward to select AMD if you just bought Intel. cheers Max
