Bug#727708: systemd jessie - jessie+1 upgrade problems

2013-12-16 Thread Adrian Bunk 
Hi Josselin,

reading through the systemd position statement [1], I ran into a 
statement that is either incomplete or incorrect:


The upstart position statement [2] states:

--  snip  --

systemd is hasty. ... While we are committed to having sane upgrade 
paths and not depend on such kernel features prematurely.

-- snip  --


The answer in the systemd position statement says:

--  snip  --

... Compatibility at upgrade time should not be a concern either, since 
the real outside interfaces (D-Bus, unit files, Debian configuration 
files) have always been stable (forward compatible) and will remain so. 
There will, most probably, be locked-in upgrades with udev from time to 
time, but it does not have any impact on the ability to upgrade systems.

--  snip  --


Can you give a pointer to what guarantees systemd upstream makes 
regarding supporting older kernels?


One example:

Assume kdbus gets merged into the upstream kernel after the kernel that 
ships with jessie.

Would it be guaranteed that the systemd in jessie+1 will still be able 
to work with the jessie kernel, or is there even the slightest risk that 
systemd upstream might at some point make kdbus a mandatory requirement?


And with systemd absorbing functionality like module loading I could 
even imagine nightmare scenarios where additionally the jessie+1 kernel 
would only work with a jessie+1 systemd.


Please clarify whether there is just a pointer to a statement from 
systemd upstream missing, or whether the statement Compatibility at 
upgrade time should not be a concern either is incorrect.


Thanks in advance
Adrian

[1] https://wiki.debian.org/Debate/initsystem/systemd
[2] https://wiki.debian.org/Debate/initsystem/upstart

-- 

   Is there not promise of rain? Ling Tan asked suddenly out
of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days.
   Only a promise, Lao Er said.
   Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed


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Re: Scheduling the next IRC Meeting (December 26th or some other day?)

2013-12-16 Thread Don Armstrong 
On Thu, 12 Dec 2013, Don Armstrong wrote:
 Currently the next IRC meeting is scheduled for
 date -d 'Thu Dec 26 18:00:00 UTC 2013'
 
 If not (or if someone else says that it won't), can you please indicate
 whether the following would work:
 
 1. 19th same time

From everyone who has responded, it looks like the 19th is the best day.

date -d 'Thu Dec 19 18:00:00 UTC 2013'

Does the 19th not work for anyone?


-- 
Don Armstrong  http://www.donarmstrong.com

Show me your flowcharts and conceal your tables, and I shall continue
to be mystified. Show me your tables, and I won't usually need your
flowcharts; they'll be obvious.
 -- Fredrick P. Brooks Jr., The Mythical Man Month


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