Bug#636783: TC casting vote
On 22/05/14 at 10:14 -0700, Steve Langasek wrote: On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 03:56:26PM +0100, Ian Jackson wrote: We have had some discussion about this. No-one seems to have objected to the suggestion that the DPL, rather than the TC chairman, should have a casting vote in TC decisions. I'm therefore intending to roll this up into my TC GR(s). I don't recall seeing this discussion. I don't agree that this is a good structural change, for similar reasons to Tollef. Same here. Additionally: 1/ it would feel quite strange if the DPL suddenly had to dig deeply into a controversial issue at the end of the voting period, without taking part in the earlier technical discussion. 2/ the DPL is not chosen using the same criteria as the TC members, and we may very well have a DPL that is not trusted by the project for his/her technical skills. So it would mean turning a technical decision into a political one. 3/ a recent GR (the code of conduct one) showed that Developers were not big fans of the idea of deferring out-of-the-usual-scope decisions to the DPL. Lucas signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Bug#636783: TC casting vote
On Fri, 2014-05-23 at 08:32 +0200, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: On 22/05/14 at 10:14 -0700, Steve Langasek wrote: On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 03:56:26PM +0100, Ian Jackson wrote: We have had some discussion about this. No-one seems to have objected to the suggestion that the DPL, rather than the TC chairman, should have a casting vote in TC decisions. I'm therefore intending to roll this up into my TC GR(s). I don't recall seeing this discussion. I don't agree that this is a good structural change, for similar reasons to Tollef. Same here. Additionally: 1/ it would feel quite strange if the DPL suddenly had to dig deeply into a controversial issue at the end of the voting period, without taking part in the earlier technical discussion. 2/ the DPL is not chosen using the same criteria as the TC members, and we may very well have a DPL that is not trusted by the project for his/her technical skills. So it would mean turning a technical decision into a political one. 3/ a recent GR (the code of conduct one) showed that Developers were not big fans of the idea of deferring out-of-the-usual-scope decisions to the DPL. The solution is simple: Have an odd number of members in the TC. Then no casting vote is needed at all. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/1400830927.17164.2.ca...@g3620.my.own.domain
Bug#636783: TC casting vote
On 23/05/14 at 09:42 +0200, Svante Signell wrote: On Fri, 2014-05-23 at 08:32 +0200, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: On 22/05/14 at 10:14 -0700, Steve Langasek wrote: On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 03:56:26PM +0100, Ian Jackson wrote: We have had some discussion about this. No-one seems to have objected to the suggestion that the DPL, rather than the TC chairman, should have a casting vote in TC decisions. I'm therefore intending to roll this up into my TC GR(s). I don't recall seeing this discussion. I don't agree that this is a good structural change, for similar reasons to Tollef. Same here. Additionally: 1/ it would feel quite strange if the DPL suddenly had to dig deeply into a controversial issue at the end of the voting period, without taking part in the earlier technical discussion. 2/ the DPL is not chosen using the same criteria as the TC members, and we may very well have a DPL that is not trusted by the project for his/her technical skills. So it would mean turning a technical decision into a political one. 3/ a recent GR (the code of conduct one) showed that Developers were not big fans of the idea of deferring out-of-the-usual-scope decisions to the DPL. The solution is simple: Have an odd number of members in the TC. Then no casting vote is needed at all. No, one can rank two options at the same level. Lucas -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140523075233.ga20...@xanadu.blop.info
Bug#636783: TC casting vote
(Or having to abstain from a vote) On May 23, 2014 4:45 AM, Svante Signell svante.sign...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, 2014-05-23 at 09:52 +0200, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: On 23/05/14 at 09:42 +0200, Svante Signell wrote: On Fri, 2014-05-23 at 08:32 +0200, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: The solution is simple: Have an odd number of members in the TC. Then no casting vote is needed at all. No, one can rank two options at the same level. Then add to the rules that doing that is forbidden. Or count the number of TC members voting on the two problematic options and choose the one having most votes. (the only remaining problem the would be that all TC members rank two options equal: this probability would be very small) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/1400834527.17164.9.ca...@g3620.my.own.domain
Bug#636783: TC casting vote
Svante Signell svante.sign...@gmail.com writes: The solution is simple: Have an odd number of members in the TC. Then no casting vote is needed at all. I don't believe that's true, or that any simple transformation of the vote process can make that true. The casting vote is not used to break numeric ties. It's used to select a winning option from the Schwartz set. Given how Condorcet works, I don't believe there is a way to ensure the Schwartz set always has only one member by manipulating the number of voters. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/87fvk0torw@windlord.stanford.edu
Bug#636783: TC casting vote
We have had some discussion about this. No-one seems to have objected to the suggestion that the DPL, rather than the TC chairman, should have a casting vote in TC decisions. I'm therefore intending to roll this up into my TC GR(s). Ian. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/21374.4122.154474.480...@chiark.greenend.org.uk
Bug#636783: TC casting vote
]] Ian Jackson We have had some discussion about this. No-one seems to have objected to the suggestion that the DPL, rather than the TC chairman, should have a casting vote in TC decisions. I think it's a bad idea. The CTTE is a technical body. The DPL is a political leader. Having political leaders make technical decisions is bad policy. It also means the CTTE is no longer self-contained and half the point of having a chairman disappears. -- Tollef Fog Heen UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/m2ppj5ah41@rahvafeir.err.no
