Bug#762194: Debian has abandoned many users also on upgrades by the CTTE decision on December 4 2014

2014-12-05 Thread Svante Signell
Hello,

Looking at the IRC log
http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/collab-maint/debian-ctte.git/tree/meetings/20141204/debian-ctte.2014-12-04-18.00.log.txt
lines 197 to 280 reveals the plan.

Conclusion: quoting vorlon Steve Langasek: we recommend/support
systemd being the default init system for upgrades as well as new
installs

Action point: quoting dondelelcaro Don Armstrong:
#action dondelelcaro to draft affirmative resolution on #762194 noting
#757298 et al

More details: (if using apt, see also #757298 about the grub2 entry)

- upgrading from Wheezy/with sysvinit to Jessie can boot with  
init=/lib/sysvinit/init unless/until the sysvinit package is removed by
e.g. autoclean. 

CAUTION: don't autoclean until you have installed sysvinit-core if you
don't want systemd-sysv!

- dist-upgrading Wheezy/with sysvinit to Jessie will get systemd-sysv,
and sysvinit will be history!! (unless you install sysvinit-core on next
reboot (if your system boots))

- grub will obtain a menu entry to boot with init=/lib/sysvinit/init if
something goes wrong with the switch to systemd-sysv (unless you
dist-upgrade). If you are using some other bootloader, e.g. LILO you are
on your own.

- people not careful enough are on their own: quote from Tollef Fog Heen
at some point, it's the user shooting their foot off

I wonder what the people not having physical access, e.g. ssh, to their
boxes should do, not even able the see the boot screen?

Very nice conclusions and actions ;)


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Bug#762194: Debian has abandoned many users also on upgrades by the CTTE decision on December 4 2014

2014-12-05 Thread Adam Borowski
On Fri, Dec 05, 2014 at 07:31:06PM +0100, Svante Signell wrote:
 Looking at the IRC log
 http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/collab-maint/debian-ctte.git/tree/meetings/20141204/debian-ctte.2014-12-04-18.00.log.txt
 lines 197 to 280 reveals the plan.
 
 Conclusion: quoting vorlon Steve Langasek: we recommend/support
 systemd being the default init system for upgrades as well as new
 installs
 
 Action point: quoting dondelelcaro Don Armstrong:
 #action dondelelcaro to draft affirmative resolution on #762194 noting
 #757298 et al

I think the key point is:
18:50:04 dondelelcaro so for this bug, I'm happier that we actually have
concrete proposals, though I don't think any of them have had enough testing
18:50:29 ansgar I think two had issues with installing sysvinit in some
cases.
18:50:39 ansgar And the last one just arrived ~2 hours ago.
18:51:57 ansgar First proposal in 762194#124, I tested it in #142

which shows confusion as to whether the proposal works.  The idea is to move
the piece responsible for defaulting to systemd from pkg:init to
pkg:debootstrap -- and a move consists of two changes: removing in place A
then adding in place B.  What ansgar tested in #142 is removing only, with
obvious results.  I did try to dispel this confusion but this apparently
hasn't been noticed.

 More details: (if using apt, see also #757298 about the grub2 entry)
 
 - upgrading from Wheezy/with sysvinit to Jessie can boot with  
 init=/lib/sysvinit/init unless/until the sysvinit package is removed by
 e.g. autoclean. 
[...]
 I wonder what the people not having physical access, e.g. ssh, to their
 boxes should do, not even able the see the boot screen?

They'll have a nice drive to the data center... or, for embedded systems,
some extra fun of wildly varying kinds.

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