Re: Switch to perl-5.005_02 ?
Hi, Raphael == Raphael Hertzog [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Raphael Le Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 07:21:06PM +0200, Richard Braakman écrivait: Let's wait till *after* the freeze and do that in the new unstable. I agree. Frankly, I think it's a bad idea to just break all those packages. Isn't there some way to create a smooth upgrade path? Raphael No. But it might no be a great problem, I tried to see how Raphael many packages would be broken : Raphael That makes 35 packages. Really not unreachable. I can fill Raphael the bugreports if needed. Please, no. The freeze is now less than two weeks away (if I remember correctly). Surely we can wait until after the freeze? Otherwise we start into the freeze with 35 broken packages. Our track record is bad enough that we should not tempt the fates before the freeze anyway. We are trying to get into a more frequent release cycle, which means changes like this should happen early in the release, not at the tail end. In fact, maybe we should consider a soft freeze in effect two weeks before the real freeze -- right around now. manoj who would really like to have a release before christmas this time; preferably by november, to catch the holiday season. -- Murray's Rule: Any country with democratic in the title isn't. Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.datasync.com/%7Esrivasta/ Key C7261095 fingerprint = CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05 CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E
Re: formal documents
Kikutani Makoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Do you accept a passport as the above formal documents ? Yes. [Though if there is any opportunity to meet another developer in real life and cross sign each others keys, this is the preferred method, where it's viable.] -- James
Re: gnome .debs
JM == Justin Maurer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: JM i have never used cvs-buildpackage, but would be willing to JM generate nightly .debs. what do people think of this? I and Marcus have trouble with cvs-buildpackage. Better wait/contact Manoj before you get into the strange problems we have. Ciao, Martin -- from a 1996 Microshit ad campaign: The less you know about computers the more you want Micro$oft! See! They do get some things right!
Re: what's after slink
On Sat, 3 Oct 1998, Martin Schulze wrote: Ben Gertzfield wrote: Here's what imdb.com says: Cast overview, first billed only: snip imdb.com lists the following named characters on the full cast page: Tom Hanks Woody (voice) Tim Allen Buzz Lightyear (voice) Don Rickles Mr. Potato Head (voice) Jim Varney Slinky Dog (voice) Wallace Shawn Rex (voice) John Ratzenberger Hamm (voice) Annie Potts Bo Peep (voice) John Morris (III) Andy (voice) Erik von Detten Sid (voice) Laurie Metcalf Mrs. Davis (voice) R. Lee Ermey Sergeant (voice) Sarah Freeman Hannah (voice) Penn Jillette TV Announcer (voice)
Re: Switch to perl-5.005_02 ?
Hi, Raphael == Raphael Hertzog [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Raphael Why not propose perl and perl-thread ? Each one would Raphael conflict with the other one, but that's not a problem. That *is* a problem. I would like to have both on my machine: the normal perl for production, and the threaded one to prototype with. manoj -- Fraternities have no SLACK, no matter how slack-jawed they may appear. I taught elementary calculus here at the University of SLACK for several years, and have observed these folks carefully. Although some of them looked like they had SLACK, it's clear to me that this was just the result of not getting enough sleep after the puking contest. I mean, those guys don't watch enough television to have real SLACK. William K Glunt ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.datasync.com/%7Esrivasta/ Key C7261095 fingerprint = CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05 CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E
Re: what's after slink
ah, but imdb is missing one important character (at least!). rc! the radio control car! i say rc should be 2.2, as i have before. # Justin Maurer GNOME Hacker # [EMAIL PROTECTED] Debian Developer # http://slashdot.org/ Slashdot Author # 09 84 FC 03 13 AA 4A AF F6 A4 85 9D 8C 96 B6 A4
Re: what's after slink
On Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 10:45:36PM -0400, Justin Maurer wrote: ah, but imdb is missing one important character (at least!). rc! the radio control car! i say rc should be 2.2, as i have before. Debian 2.2, on the FTP site, is called sid. If you guys want to discuss this, at least make it clear that you are talking about 2.3 or 3 or whaterver. hamm - slink - sid 2.0 - 2.1 - 2.2 For example, those of us doing the arm port are already using Sid. We won't have anything for slink. Ciao, -- David Welton http://www.efn.org/~davidw Debian GNU/Linux - www.debian.org
Re: gnome .debs
Hi, Martin == Martin Bialasinski [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: JM == Justin Maurer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: JM i have never used cvs-buildpackage, but would be willing to JM generate nightly .debs. what do people think of this? Martin I and Marcus have trouble with cvs-buildpackage. Better Martin wait/contact Manoj before you get into the strange problems Martin we have. I am leaving town for a week on a business trip, and hence won't be able to deal with this until I return. cvs-inject is a simple script; could one of you do me the favour of looking at a bash -x invocation (which I shall do next week) and see wherte the problem arises? The following ~/.cvsdeb.conf is known to work with cvs-inject. manoj # # This file is a bourne shell snippet, and is sourced by the # cvs-buildpackage script for configuration. # # # The following variables are available, derived from the changelog # file at run time # # $package: Name of the package # $version: The raw version of the package # $sversion: The version number stripped of epochs # $uversion: The upstream version # $tversion: Debian revision number, if any # # There is nothing preventing you from over riding any of those, or, # in fact, from modifying internal variables used in the script, # though you should know what you are doing before doing so, know # that all your warranties become void if you do so. # # Debugging information: The default value is 0 (no debugging # information is printed). To change the default behaviour, uncomment # the following line and set the value to 1. # # DEBUG=0 # # The directories. # # The root directory is used to set the default value of the work # directory, using the package name. The default value is # /usr/src/Packages (note that this directory is not created # automatically). To change the default behaviour, uncomment the # following line and set the value to match the local setup. # conf_rootdir='/usr/local/src/Packages' # The work directory. This directory is where the original sources are # expected, and this is where the module shall be exported from CVS. # If you set this value, the value of the root directory, either set # up above or on the command line, would be ignored. To change the # default behaviour, uncomment the following line and set the value to # match the local setup. # # conf_workdir=$rootdir/$package conf_forcetag='YES' conf_rootcommand='fakeroot' -- One good suit is worth a thousand resumes. Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.datasync.com/%7Esrivasta/ Key C7261095 fingerprint = CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05 CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E
Re: what's after slink
On Sat, 3 Oct 1998, David Welton wrote: : On Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 10:45:36PM -0400, Justin Maurer wrote: : : ah, but imdb is missing one important character (at least!). : rc! the radio control car! : : i say rc should be 2.2, as i have before. : : Debian 2.2, on the FTP site, is called sid. If you guys want to : discuss this, at least make it clear that you are talking about 2.3 or : 3 or whaterver. : : hamm - slink - sid : 2.0 - 2.1 - 2.2 : : For example, those of us doing the arm port are already using Sid. We : won't have anything for slink. I thought sid was a permanent unstable release, never to be released as stable. I don't have the original email in front of me, though. -- Nathan Norman MidcoNet 410 South Phillips Avenue Sioux Falls, SD mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.midco.net finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP Key: (0xA33B86E9)
Re: XEmacs, TeX, and Re: Lengthy Debian install procedures
On Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 09:27:29PM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree. It's too bad that he wasted time that he could have spent finishing _The Art of Computer Programming_ on trivia like typesetting. It's just that he realized that typesetting isn't trivia at all, but very interesting. And, IMHO, he was interested in it as an art. And furthermore, he tried some interesting Meta-ness on it, influencing a lot of geniuses (for example, Douglas Hofstadter). However, he is a mathematician, and, there was no typesetting systems for mathematicians only a few years ago. Books were written with a typing machine, and symbols added manually. Ever read some of those higher math books from the time before TeX was available? It's a pain to read them. TeX was a major relief for all scientists all over the world. And, he's still living, last time I checked, and is still working on TAOCP, very concentrated, as he says. Please see for more info: http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth Marcus -- Rhubarb is no Egyptian god.Debian GNU/Linuxfinger brinkmd@ Marcus Brinkmann http://www.debian.orgmaster.debian.org [EMAIL PROTECTED]for public PGP Key http://homepage.ruhr-uni-bochum.de/Marcus.Brinkmann/ PGP Key ID 36E7CD09
Re: what's after slink
On Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 06:57:54AM -0700, Bob Nielsen wrote: I thought 2.2 was going to be rc, and 3.0 would be woody. Johnnie Ingram was pushing for that one, as were a few others. But didn't an even earlier discussion conclude that woody should be bypassed as it would be offensive to some people. extremely innocent look Whyever for? It's just a word, a name used in a movie. Quite seriously, I think those few who would be offended take labels far too seriously, but then that's me. pgpiZpqTOwbtd.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: How about using bzip2 as the standard *.deb compression format?
On Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 08:37:12AM -0500, dsb3 wrote: I think we already went through this discussion a short while back. Unless I'm missing something new, it was pretty much decided that the memory overhead of bzip2 was too great for low-mem or slow PCs to handle. It'd STILL be nice to be able to use bzip2 for package source on REALLY BIG packages (Mozilla, X) very good point! those users with slow / low mem machines are less likely to be installing these packages anyway! Perhaps we could compromise by saying that anyone running these on a slow machine will be patient anyway and can deal with the extra slowness and disk thrashing of using bzip2? Old/slow/lomem machines can't properly compile X or Mozilla anyway. pgp0G9gISxbWZ.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: what's after slink
On Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 09:53:55PM -0500, Nathan E Norman wrote: On Sat, 3 Oct 1998, David Welton wrote: : Debian 2.2, on the FTP site, is called sid. If you guys want to : discuss this, at least make it clear that you are talking about 2.3 or : 3 or whaterver. : : hamm - slink - sid : 2.0 - 2.1 - 2.2 : : For example, those of us doing the arm port are already using Sid. We : won't have anything for slink. I thought sid was a permanent unstable release, never to be released as stable. I don't have the original email in front of me, though. Oh - I see... Hrmmm Well, now I feel stupid. I was wondering why no one responsed to my earlier post saying the same thing...:- Well.. my opinion would be to find a new series of names. These are kind of cool, but, for most people must seem sort of boring and uninspired. Hamm, slink, buzz.. They just don't evoke much more than an 'oh'. As far as something to replace them.. hrmm. Geography has been popular lately.. cities, rivers.. Something international would be good. Lakes? Seas? National parks? Drinks?:- Oh, wait, I have 'real' things to do.. enough brainstorming.. -- David Welton http://www.efn.org/~davidw Debian GNU/Linux - www.debian.org
Re: what's after slink
On Sat, 3 Oct 1998, David Welton wrote: As far as something to replace them.. hrmm. Geography has been popular lately.. cities, rivers.. Something international would be good. Lakes? Seas? National parks? Drinks?:- how about endangered species. e.g. tigers, cheetahs, whales, microsoft, etc. craig -- craig sanders
Re: gnome .debs
On Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 06:56:59PM -0400, Justin Maurer wrote: (for the purposes of this email, consider my sig my resume). i am an admin at a local high school. our shell server is a p233 with 128m ram and 12gb disk. it will soon be upgraded to 256mb, and sooner or later, a second processor. it sits on a t1, with incoming ftp supposed to be unfirewalled awhile ago (i can get around it, if necessary). the machie is idle 23 hours a day. i have never used cvs-buildpackage, but would be willing to generate nightly .debs. what do people think of this? This is in the works. Myself and Shaleh ahve talked about it, and Shaleh and Jim Pick have also been discussing it. I am sure Jim agrees with my that any help will be much appreciated ;) In any case, I believe the plan was to be able to add a line to your /etc/apt/sources.list something like this: ftp://ftp.jimpick.com/gnome or something liek that, and be able to download .debs of all gnoem cvs nightly. obviously a beefy machien would be good for that, I know Jim doesn't ahve a terrific one (at least from past postings?) and I have a p233mmx with 64mb ram (and greatly limited disk space...I could compile e, imlib, fnlib, esound, and stringlist prolly ;) So jump on in! Send an email to Jim, as I'm sure he knows more about this whole thing than I. I took a look at the cvs-buildpackage stuff, but haven't really figured it out yet. BTW, even though I dont' really use GNOME per se, I think its' a GREAT idea. :) Keep in touch. Brian -- Brian Almeida [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/~bma/ _ _ _ __| | ___| |__ (_) __ _ _ __ / _` |/ _ \ '_ \| |/ _` | '_ \ Debian GNU/Linux Developer | (_| | __/ |_) | | (_| | | | | PGP Key: 0x3A800C65 \__,_|\___|_.__/|_|\__,_|_| |_| http://www.debian.org Debian Linux: Because Size DOES Matter
Re: what's after slink
On Sun, Oct 04, 1998 at 01:59:15PM +1000, Craig Sanders wrote: On Sat, 3 Oct 1998, David Welton wrote: As far as something to replace them.. hrmm. Geography has been popular lately.. cities, rivers.. Something international would be good. Lakes? Seas? National parks? Drinks?:- how about endangered species. e.g. tigers, cheetahs, whales, microsoft, etc. Gnome seems to be headed down this path, at least with primates. I think things like tigers and cheetahs are maybe more suitable for sports cars, and not subtle enough... Whales are kind of neat. Debian Blue, Debian Gray, Debian Orca, Debian ummm ok, so we avoid sperm whale, just in case anyone hasn't picked up on the series... How about M$ execs? Debian Balmer Debian I dont konw any of the others.. Cutler? He's the NT guy, no? Hmm maybe Ian should pick something and we could ratify it. Or, since we picked something from Bruce's work, maybe something to do with Ian? What's he like? -- David Welton http://www.efn.org/~davidw Debian GNU/Linux - www.debian.org
GPL'd libforms dependent package
This a kind of interesting looking package. It is GPL'd but depends on a no-source-available library. I just reread the relevant portions of the GPL, but I'm no Talmudic scholar. Can the GPL be properly applied to this ? http://ifb.bv.tu-berlin.de/JOCHEN/XSTAB/xstab.html John Lapeyre [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tucson,AZ http://www.physics.arizona.edu/~lapeyre
Re: Switch to perl-5.005_02 ?
Manoj Srivastava wrote: That *is* a problem. I would like to have both on my machine: the normal perl for production, and the threaded one to prototype with. According to the mail I got from the maintainer, that is what he plans to do. /usr/bin/perl and /usr/bin/perl-thread, no conflicts. -- see shy jo
Installation Weirdness (dpkg-divert)
Hi, I'm experiencing a weird problem while installing slink. I'm just not sure what's at fault and therefore don't know which package to file a bug report against. I get the following: Preparing to replace modutils 2.1.85-11 (using .../base/modutils_2.1.121-4.deb) ... Adding `diversion of /usr/include/linux/kerneld.h to /usr/include/linux/kerneld.h.libc6 by modutils' Saving KDOPT setting from /etc/init.d/kerneld .. Your /etc/conf.modules is a symlink. I will replace this by a real file so update-modules can do it's work later. Removing obsoleted files: conf.generic conf.i386 conf.m68k conf.m68k.amiga conf.m68k.atari conf.m68k.mac Dpkg might ask you if you want the new configuration files in /etc/initd. This is generally a good idea, unless you have really changed any of these files. The KDOPT setting in /etc/init.d/kerneld will be saved even if you install a new version of this file. Unpacking replacement modutils ... dpkg: error processing /mnt/debian/dists/unstable/main/binary-i386/base/modutils_2.1.121-4.deb (--unpack): trying to overwrite `/usr/include/linux/kerneld.h', which is the diverted version of `(null)' (package:modutils) dpkg-deb: subprocess paste killed by signal (Broken pipe) then a bit later in the install I get: Unpacking dnsutils (from .../net/dnsutils_8.1.2-3.deb) ... Adding `diversion of /usr/bin/addr to /usr/bin/addr.bind by dnsutils' dpkg: error processing /mnt/debian/dists/unstable/main/binary-i386/net/dnsutils_8.1.2-3.deb (--unpack): trying to overwrite `/usr/bin/dig', which is the diverted version of `(null)' (package:dnsutils) dpkg-deb: subprocess paste killed by signal (Broken pipe) then yet again a bit further: Unpacking libc6-dev (from .../devel/libc6-dev_2.0.7u-2.deb) ... dpkg: error processing /mnt/debian/dists/unstable/main/binary-i386/devel/libc6-dev_2.0.7u-2.deb (--unpack): trying to overwrite `/usr/include/linux/kerneld.h', which is the diverted version of `L..xM...' (package:modutils) dpkg-deb: subprocess paste killed by signal (Broken pipe) As you can see it seems to be triggered by dpkg-divert in the installation scripts. The weird thing is that if i hold back modutils and dnsutils, and install them on a 2nd run thru' dselect, then all is well. I can reliably reproduce this. This has been happening for a while now. But the errors (as shown above) are slightly different now since the latest version of dpkg (1.4.0.30). It used to give segmentation fault. Using latest APT with Debian 2.0 cdrom as a base and a local sub-mirror of slink packages that I use. Any ideas? Thanks Greg
Re: what's after slink
On Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 06:32:58PM +0200, Martin Schulze wrote: [snip] 2.2 potatoe ^ LANG=US-vice-president perhaps? Adrian email: [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.poboxes.com/adrian.bridgett Windows NT - Unix in beta-testing. PGP key available on public key servers Debian Linux http://www.debian.org The superior Linux distribution
Craig Small here?
[Please CC: any replies to me, since I'm not subscribed to your list] Craig Small [EMAIL PROTECTED] sent me mail about the Debian CD web pages on www.debian.org. Unfortunately, this address bounces (host scooter not found) and also his @debian.org address bounces (same reason). Does someone have a working address? Thanks in advance, Chris -- Christian Schwarz Do you know [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Debian GNU/Linux?[EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit PGP-fp: 8F 61 EB 6D CF 23 CA D7 34 05 14 5C C8 DC 22 BA http://www.debian.org http://fatman.mathematik.tu-muenchen.de/~schwarz/
user labels, about the future of APT
hi I am a Debian fanatic (but not yet a mantainer... I have no time) I just read the document about the future featueres of APT I have always thought that I would love to have one feature that I now describe as you propose , APT should manage groups of packets in a more flexible way than the presernt main/* non-free/* ecc Indeed there should be groups named basilar installation simple small X terminal gcc development WWW server machine : this is what ordinary people would expect from Debian (or, any OS) all the bove could be thought of as groups proposed by Debian, and are static, from the user view point. What I would propose is that there should be also dynamic groups defined the user, I will call them user labels. To exemplify, these are example of user's label work, study, amusement, trial, dependency, development They should be chosen , and attached, by the user to the package ; in particular when s/he installs/uninstall it Whats the catch? suppose that you want to try a new package : when you install it, you mark it as trial ; supp.that dpkg tell you that you need to there are some other packages to be installed (mostly, libraries) if you accept, apt marks them as dependency when you at a certain point want to install another package , and do not have disk space, you ask apt for a list of trial pkgs and delete some of them ; if it is not enough, you pass to the amusemnt ecc in particular, there shoudl be a direct command , lets call it unneeded dependency removal that removes all files that where installed because of dependency needs but that are not needed anymore: this one I would really love Note that to have the above command, you need to label the pkgs at installation, and then it may be interesting to extend the use of these labels as above so, I send this email to debian-devel... if the idea is accepted, it may be added in the list of specifications for APT thanks a.Mennucc1 -- -- Legal Warning: Anyone sending me unsolicited/commercial email WILL be charged a $100 proof-reading fee. Do NOT send junk email to me - consider this an official notice: By US Code Title 47, Sec.227(a)(2)(B), a computer/modem/printer meets the definition of a telephone fax machine. By Sec.227(b)(1)(C), it is unlawful to send any unsolicited advertisement to such equipment. By Sec.227(b)(3)(C), a violation of the aforementioned Section is punishable by action to recover actual monetary loss, or $500, whichever is greater, for each violation.
Re: Switch to perl-5.005_02 ?
Le Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 09:14:00PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava écrivait: That *is* a problem. I would like to have both on my machine: the normal perl for production, and the threaded one to prototype with. OK, I was wrong. I said it in the eventuality where perl and perl-thread would have the same binary-name (aka /usr/bin/perl) but in fact perl and perl-thread doesn't conflict each other. Furthermore it could have been handled by alternatives. Cheers, -- Hertzog Raphaël ¤ 0C4CABF1 ¤ http://www.mygale.org/~hra/
Re: Switch to perl-5.005_02 ?
Le Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 06:32:22PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava écrivait: I agree. I do not. Perl 5.005 and the new perl-thread seems to interest a lot of people. But if we don't switch to perl5.005 right now, they would presumably download the forthcoming perl5.005 package from the next (after freeze) unstable dist. If they do like that all their lib*-perl package will be broken and dkpg would not complain ! Furthermore if they do this they will have to download all their lib*-perl packages in order to have a consistent perl toolbox. But if all is done for slink, they will switch to the new packages without noticing that something has changed for perl. Do you see what I mean ? Please, no. The freeze is now less than two weeks away (if I remember correctly). Surely we can wait until after the freeze? Otherwise we start into the freeze with 35 broken packages. Really the only job to repair theses packages is : # dpkg -i perl_5.005_02-1.deb $ cd libmsgcat-perl-1.0 $ vim debian/control (add the depends line perl (= 5.005)) $ dch -v Recompiled for perl 5.005 $ build $ dupload And if a developer can't do that in the next 2 weeks, he can say it here and somedbody can do a NMU. We are trying to get into a more frequent release cycle, which means changes like this should happen early in the release, not at the tail end. I agree but in this precise case I don't think so. Cheers, -- Hertzog Raphaël ¤ 0C4CABF1 ¤ http://www.mygale.org/~hra/
Re: How about using bzip2 as the standard *.deb compression format?
Joseph Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Old/slow/lomem machines can't properly compile X or Mozilla anyway. Bzzt. I've compiled xfree86 for Debian/m68k on a 386/25 equivalent with only 14Mb (don't ask) of memory several times. Took 5 days, like, but it compiled ``properly''. -- James
Re: GTK Dselect - ALPHA 1
On Sun, Oct 04, 1998 at 12:14:40AM -0400, Brian Almeida wrote: On Sat, Oct 03, 1998 at 11:41:14PM +0100, Tom Lees wrote: Just a small tar.gz. Not many features are implemented at the moment - notably, it doesnt update the status file, and it doesnt lock the status area, but I'm releasing it for testing of the rest of it. To compile, cd gdselect, and run make. The binary is in gtk/gdselect. One question: the core size is rather large as it stands - is it worth reducing this by using an apt-style cache file in your opinion? (i.e. will people with low-memory, probably less than 24MB, run this?) Tell me what you think of the interface. The buttons at the bottom are meant to change the status. The actual installation is the Install/Apply menu option. Ummm...waht version of GTK+ do we compiel it with? 1.06 or 1.1.*? 1.1. -- Tom Lees [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.lpsg.demon.co.uk/ PGP Key: finger [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.lpsg.demon.co.uk/pgpkeys.asc.
Re: Compile new apache module / Anyone package it?
1) I would like to get some hints how to compile this and probably other modules for apache using Debian package apache-dev and not using the source code. I use: Makefile: --- default: mod_auth_mysql.c mod_log_mysql.c gcc -shared -I/usr/include/apache-1.3 \ mod_auth_mysql.c -lmysqlclient -o mod_auth_mysql.so gcc -shared -I/usr/include/apache-1.3 \ mod_log_mysql.c -lmysqlclient -o mod_log_mysql.so install: install -m 644 mod_auth_mysql.so /usr/lib/apache/1.3 install -m 644 mod_log_mysql.so /usr/lib/apache/1.3 clean: rm -f *~ rm -f *.so 3) I would like to see this modules packaged for Debian. If someone volunteers he may have it. If I understand how to do it and find some time before someone volunteers I might try it by myself. Looks trivial enough to me. If you want it, you can have it. If you can't do it, I'll be happy to apply for developer status and take both modules on. There's probably more such tiny modules lying around that might have to be included. mod_auth_pg95 comes to mind. But perhaps some of the apache/php/mod-perl/mod-pyapache guys'n girls could share their thoughts on the matter with us. -- Paul Stevens mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] NET FACILITIES GROUP PGP: finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Netherlandshttp://www.nfg.nl
Re: How about using bzip2 as the standard *.deb compression format?
On Sun, Oct 04, 1998 at 12:15:40PM +0100, James Troup wrote: Old/slow/lomem machines can't properly compile X or Mozilla anyway. Bzzt. I've compiled xfree86 for Debian/m68k on a 386/25 equivalent with only 14Mb (don't ask) of memory several times. Took 5 days, like, but it compiled ``properly''. I doubt it would compile on my 4 meg 486. Nor would it run there. pgpn0ZgJGOcE9.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: XEmacs, TeX, and Re: Lengthy Debian install procedures
On Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 09:27:29PM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree. It's too bad that he wasted time that he could have spent finishing _The Art of Computer Programming_ on trivia like typesetting. It's just that he realized that typesetting isn't trivia at all, but very interesting. And, IMHO, he was interested in it as an art. And furthermore, he tried some interesting Meta-ness on it, influencing a lot of geniuses (for example, Douglas Hofstadter). However, he is a mathematician, and, there was no typesetting systems for mathematicians only a few years ago. Books were written with a typing machine, and symbols added manually. Ever read some of those higher math books from the time before TeX was available? It's a pain to read them. TeX was a major relief for all scientists all over the world. And, he's still living, last time I checked, and is still working on TAOCP, very concentrated, as he says. Please see for more info: http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth Also, Addison-Wessley just rerpublished TAOCP redone in TeX. Sent my father a free set to have. :) Shaya
Re: what's after slink
As far as something to replace them.. hrmm. Geography has been popular lately.. cities, rivers.. Something international would be good. Lakes? Seas? National parks? Drinks?:- Famous Free Software personalities? Debian Stallman, Debian Raymond (ok, so I might get in trouble for that one), Debian Wall Trees? Oak, Maple ... How long is debian going to be around? There are literally millions of species of insect ... Will -- | [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | http://www.cis.udel.edu/~lowe/ | |PGP Public Key: http://www.cis.udel.edu/~lowe/index.html#pgpkey| -- | You think you're so smart, but I've seen you naked | | and I'll prob'ly see you naked again ... | | --The Barenaked Ladies, Blame It On Me | --
PGP in the US (Re: formal documents)
On Sun, Oct 04, 1998 at 12:47:45AM +0100, James Troup [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you accept a passport as the above formal documents ? Yes. [Though if there is any opportunity to meet another developer in Good. I asked this because Japanese developers who are planning to become maintainers feel difficulty to have an international call for the real-life identity verification. BTW. I'm a Japanese living in the United States, but not a permanent resident. I've heared that the usage of PGP in the States by a person like me is controversial. I posted this qestion to some related Mailing-Lists (such as mutt-users). Someone said No problem, someone said You shouldn't use it. I'm very confused. makoto -- Kikutani, Makoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Linux related only)
Does anyone use virtual-dev? (was Re: updated vs. bdflush -- which is better?)
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Avery Pennarun [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pavel Machek recently extended the bdflush package to efficiently handle hard disk spindown for power saving mode. I played with the changes, and it seems to work really well. Some time ago, I made a package called virtual-dev, which was supposed to help keep the hard disk spun down. (It works by putting /dev on a ramdisk.) More recent kernels, however, seem to be pretty good at avoiding accessing the disk without any outside help, so virtual-dev seems to be redundant already -- with things like the enhanced bdflush Avery mentions, I would expect it to become even more so. So I'd like to ask: does anyone actually use virtual-dev? If not, I'll ask that it be removed from the archive. -- Charles Briscoe-Smith White pages entry, with PGP key: URL:http://alethea.ukc.ac.uk/wp?95cpb4 PGP public keyprint: 74 68 AB 2E 1C 60 22 94 B8 21 2D 01 DE 66 13 E2
What's a suitable terminal type for xvt?
Some time ago, xterm's terminal emulation changed, and the xterm terminfo entry changed with it. Since xvt implements the emulation associated with the old version of xterm, I changed its terminal type to xterm-old. Of course, this means that, when logging in to other kinds of machines, the terminal type isn't recognised. However, I noticed recently that xterm now uses xterm-debian as its terminal type (because of a complaint from a colleague that it wasn't recognised by any other machines!), and that xterm-old seems to be the same as xterm. Is this true? When was this changed back? Should I change xvt back to xterm? Are there plans to muck about with this again in the future that I should know about? Thanks, -- Charles Briscoe-Smith White pages entry, with PGP key: URL:http://alethea.ukc.ac.uk/wp?95cpb4 PGP public keyprint: 74 68 AB 2E 1C 60 22 94 B8 21 2D 01 DE 66 13 E2
Re: PGP in the US (Re: formal documents)
On Sun, Oct 04, 1998 at 09:49:44AM -0400, Kikutani Makoto wrote: Do you accept a passport as the above formal documents ? Yes. [Though if there is any opportunity to meet another developer in Good. I asked this because Japanese developers who are planning to become maintainers feel difficulty to have an international call for the real-life identity verification. BTW. I'm a Japanese living in the United States, but not a permanent resident. I've heared that the usage of PGP in the States by a person like me is controversial. I posted this qestion to some related Mailing-Lists (such as mutt-users). Someone said No problem, someone said You shouldn't use it. I'm very confused. If you brought it with you (and can PROVE it) there is probably no problem in theory. I wouldn't put it past the gov't to try it, but if they do I'm sure the EFF and/or ALCU would be HAPPY to make a Very Very Big Issue out of it. Most of those who are citizens of the US who routinely export crypto or have done so in a public manner as an act of civil disobedience do so fully realizing the consiquences---but also fully realizing how silly the case is going to look when the EFF starts making press releases saying that someone was arrested for downloading a web page, then clicking a submit button to send the information downloaded back to the same server it was retrieved from.. You have to admit they'd look damned silly and it would probably look really bad for them justifying the crypto laws considering. I've participated in this. I can tell you that after 8 months, nothing has been done to me or to anyone else who has done this. I'm sure my fones are probably tapped and all that, but shrug I've always assumed that unsecure links are unsecure and that someone with enough money and power (the US gov't comes to mind) can probably crack a secure link as well. pgpOklIRhnO01.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Craig Small here?
Christian Schwarz wrote: [Please CC: any replies to me, since I'm not subscribed to your list] Craig Small [EMAIL PROTECTED] sent me mail about the Debian CD web pages on www.debian.org. Unfortunately, this address bounces (host scooter not found) and also his @debian.org address bounces (same reason). Does someone have a working address? That should be his current address. Regards, Joey -- Unable to locate coffee, operator halted. -- Stefan Farsch
Re: GTK Dselect - ALPHA 1
On Sun, Oct 04, 1998 at 12:44:36PM +0100, Tom Lees wrote: 1.1. I am using the libgtk1.1 1.1.2-2 and libgtk1.1-dev 1.1.12-2 packages With the default setup: -- Script started on Sun Oct 4 11:30:52 1998 make[1]: Entering directory `/home/balmeida/gdselect/gtk' gcc -g -Wall -Werror -I/home/balmeida/gdselect/include -I/usr/X11R6/include -I/usr/lib/glib/include -c main.c -o main.o gcc -g -Wall -Werror -I/home/balmeida/gdselect/include -I/usr/X11R6/include -I/usr/lib/glib/include -c tree.c -o tree.o cc1: warnings being treated as errors tree.c: In function `populate_tree': tree.c:57: warning: implicit declaration of function `gtk_ctree_remove' tree.c: In function `populate_tree_pri': tree.c:230: warning: implicit declaration of function `gtk_ctree_insert' tree.c:232: warning: assignment makes pointer from integer without a cast tree.c:273: warning: assignment makes pointer from integer without a cast tree.c:283: warning: assignment makes pointer from integer without a cast tree.c:294: warning: assignment makes pointer from integer without a cast tree.c:313: warning: assignment makes pointer from integer without a cast tree.c: In function `populate_tree_st': tree.c:360: warning: assignment makes pointer from integer without a cast tree.c:401: warning: assignment makes pointer from integer without a cast tree.c:411: warning: assignment makes pointer from integer without a cast tree.c:422: warning: assignment makes pointer from integer without a cast tree.c:441: warning: assignment makes pointer from integer without a cas make[1]: *** [tree.o] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/balmeida/gdselect/gtk' make: *** [all-subdirs] Error 2 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [~/gdselect]: exit Script done on Sun Oct 4 11:31:10 1998 Removed -Werror from Make.system: Script started on Sun Oct 4 11:31:25 1998 /dev/ttypa: Operation not permitted [EMAIL PROTECTED] [~/gdselect]: make make[1]: Entering directory `/home/balmeida/gdselect/gtk' gcc -o gdselect main.o tree.o info.o options.o dpkg.o util.o ../dpkg/db/dpkg-db.a -L/usr/lib -L/usr/X11R6/lib -lgtk -lgdk -rdynamic -lgmodule -lglib -ldl -lXi -lXext -lX11 -lm -g -Wall tree.o: In function `populate_tree': /home/balmeida/gdselect/gtk/tree.c:57: undefined reference to `gtk_ctree_remove' tree.o: In function `populate_tree_pri': /home/balmeida/gdselect/gtk/tree.c:230: undefined reference to `gtk_ctree_insert' /home/balmeida/gdselect/gtk/tree.c:271: undefined reference to `gtk_ctree_insert /home/balmeida/gdselect/gtk/tree.c:281: undefined reference to `gtk_ctree_insert' /home/balmeida/gdselect/gtk/tree.c:293: undefined reference to `gtk_ctree_insert' /home/balmeida/gdselect/gtk/tree.c:311: undefined reference to `gtk_ctree_insert' tree.o:/home/balmeida/gdselect/gtk/tree.c:358: more undefined references to `gtk_ctree_insert' follow make[1]: *** [gdselect] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/balmeida/gdselect/gtk' make: *** [all-subdirs] Error 2 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [~/gdselect]: exit Script done on Sun Oct 4 11:31:43 1998 -- Brian Almeida [EMAIL PROTECTED] Resident Technology Advisor for ARC/Stubbs Phone: 4095 Pager: 315-9746
Re: PGP in the US (Re: formal documents)
On Sun, Oct 04, 1998 at 07:57:40AM -0700, Joseph Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm a Japanese living in the United States, but not a permanent resident. I've heared that the usage of PGP in the States by a person like me is controversial. I posted this qestion to some related Mailing-Lists (such as mutt-users). Someone said No problem, someone said You shouldn't use it. I'm very confused. If you brought it with you (and can PROVE it) there is probably no problem in theory. Yes, my PGP is an international version which was built in Japan, and I brought it in my laptop. But of course I can't prove it. I've considered to join Debian maintainer before. But I gave up it because the PGP problem is not clear. Thanks for the responce. makoto -- Kikutani, Makoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Linux related only)
Re: what's after slink
Previously Martin Schulze wrote: The namespase lasts for five more releases. Or do I misunderstand something? On a related note, do we want to continue using names from pixar movies now that Bruce is gone? Wichert. -- == This combination of bytes forms a message written to you by Wichert Akkerman. E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: http://www.wi.leidenuniv.nl/~wichert/ pgpY3H0SKK38j.pgp Description: PGP signature
pine in other distributions
I'm sorry, Pine again (and again and...). Does anybody know if other distributions (RedHat, slack...) have Pine package ? If they have it, I assume their license policy is not hard as Debian. I know one Japanese company is selling Linux CDs which contain a Japanese version of Pine. In fact, the company is PHT Japan. Strictly speaking, their distribution isn't RedHat, but almost the same type distribution using RPM. makoto -- Kikutani, Makoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Linux related only)
Re: pine in other distributions
Kikutani Makoto wrote: I'm sorry, Pine again (and again and...). Does anybody know if other distributions (RedHat, slack...) have Pine package ? They have. If they have it, I assume their license policy is not hard as Debian. Indeed. Debian is know for its maximum pickyness wrt copyrights and licenses. There is a pine-src package which will build a local pine.deb. Regards, Joey -- Unable to locate coffee, operator halted. -- Stefan Farsch
Re: what's after slink
On a related note, do we want to continue using names from pixar movies now that Bruce is gone? i see no reason not to. they are nice names, the only problem is that we may be running out of good ones (i admit, rc was a stretch) # Justin Maurer GNOME Hacker # [EMAIL PROTECTED] Debian Developer # http://slashdot.org/ Slashdot Author # 09 84 FC 03 13 AA 4A AF F6 A4 85 9D 8C 96 B6 A4
Re: PGP in the US (Re: formal documents)
Joseph Carter writes: If you brought it with you (and can PROVE it) there is probably no problem in theory. It doesn't matter where he got it. It is entirely legal for anyone to use or distribute strong crypto in the US. The only restriction is on export. He is perfectly safe as long as he does not take it with him when he goes home. -- John HaslerThis posting is in the public domain. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Do with it what you will. Dancing Horse Hill Make money from it if you can; I don't mind. Elmwood, Wisconsin Do not send email advertisements to this address.
Re: How about using bzip2 as the standard *.deb compression format?
Joseph Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes in gratuitous QP: On Sun, Oct 04, 1998 at 12:15:40PM +0100, James Troup wrote: Old/slow/lomem machines can't properly compile X or Mozilla anyway. Bzzt. I've compiled xfree86 for Debian/m68k on a 386/25 equivalent with only 14Mb (don't ask) of memory several times. Took 5 days, like, but it compiled ``properly''. I doubt it would compile on my 4 meg 486. I don't; I compiled kernels on the same machine when it only had 4Mb. Nor would it run there. And I know it ran on my Falcon with 4Mb... -- James
Intent to package: Debian-Bookmarks
Hi ! I hereby formally intent to package the debian-bookmarks package ! :-) It is a package that I like to create that - like the name says - just contains bookmarks. It is intendet for both, Linux newbies and advanced users and will hopefully contains lots of usefull links about Linux, computer as well as non-computer topics. I had the idea because in this fast growing net, there are very much information that you simply do not find, as well as many very good and informative sites that everybody knows - except you :-) So if you have links that you like - mail them. Ecspecially if you have national links. read you, -christian- Below the first idea of a directory structure. Ideas welcome. /usr/bin/bookmarks-convert Converts html pages to bookmarks for several browsers like netscape, lynx, which one do YOU want /usr/share/debian-bookmarks/debian-bookmarks.html * dwww and such things * national sites - national search engines - national FTP servers - misc non-computer stuff * search - international normal- and meta- - ftp - email - news - listen - special - more_engines * Linux - Linux User Groups - Distributions (yes, also the others :-)) - Projects (gnome,kde,dosemu..) - Other Stuff * Documentation - References (html,sql,C...) - Web Sites (FAQ Archives...) * Programming - Languages (incl. special FTP Sites) - Projects (gnome,kernel..) * Games (linux-quake...) * Security - Privacy - Cryptology * Misc -- Linux - the choice of the GNU generation ! Christian Hammers * Oberer Heidweg 35 * D-52477 Alsdorf * Tel: 02404-25624 50 3C 52 26 3E 52 E7 20 D2 A1 F5 16 C4 C9 D4 D3 1024/925BCB55 1997/11/01
Re: what's after slink
Wichert Akkerman wrote: Previously Martin Schulze wrote: The namespase lasts for five more releases. Or do I misunderstand something? On a related note, do we want to continue using names from pixar movies now that Bruce is gone? I don't see a reason for not continuing this scheme. Even stronger I believe that changing it everytime the namespace founder leaves would be a very stupid idea. We should discuss a new naming scheme in five years when there are no names left (~12 names, 3 releases per year plus some names from successor movies -- 5 years). Regards, Joey -- Unable to locate coffee, operator halted. -- Stefan Farsch
Intent to package octave-sp
I intent to release an 'octave-sp' package. This will contain the 'semidef-oct' port by A.S.Hodel of the 'semidef' package by Lieven Vandenberghe [EMAIL PROTECTED] and Stephen Boyd [EMAIL PROTECTED]. It provides functions for semidefinite programming which can be used to solve nonlinear convex optimization problems. The semidef package contains the following statement in the file COPYRIGHT: COPYRIGHT 1994 LIEVEN VANDENBERGHE AND STEPHEN BOYD Permission to use, copy, modify, and distribute this software for any purpose without fee is hereby granted, provided that this entire notice is included in all copies of any software which is or includes a copy or modification of this software and in all copies of the supporting documentation for such software. This software is being provided as is, without any express or implied warranty. In particular, the authors do not make any representation or warranty of any kind concerning the merchantability of this software or its fitness for any particular purpose. The additional code by A. S. Hodel is released under the GNU GPL. -- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] According to the latest official figures, http://rosebud.ml.org/~edd 43% of all statistics are totally worthless.
Re: pine in other distributions
On Sun, Oct 04, 1998 at 05:52:47PM +0200, Martin Schulze [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anybody know if other distributions (RedHat, slack...) have Pine package ? They have. If they have it, I assume their license policy is not hard as Debian. Indeed. Debian is know for its maximum pickyness wrt copyrights and licenses. There is a pine-src package which will build a local pine.deb. I see. According to the past pine discussions, it seemed that Pine must be distributed with its source. Is this correct ? I couldn't read such restriction directly from Pine's CPYRIGHT. The reason why I'm asking this is that the company is distributing (not selling) binary only CDs. makoto -- Kikutani, Makoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Linux related only)
Re: How about using bzip2 as the standard *.deb compression format?
If your mighty 386/25 with 4MB can make World the entire X distribution and custom kernels then surely it won't sweat a little bit of bzip2 decompressing... and since you spend a lot less time downloading a bzip2ed *.deb, the extra time bzip2 would take by swapping and thrashing the disk should balance out nicely. Christopher James Troup wrote: Joseph Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes in gratuitous QP: On Sun, Oct 04, 1998 at 12:15:40PM +0100, James Troup wrote: Old/slow/lomem machines can't properly compile X or Mozilla anyway. Bzzt. I've compiled xfree86 for Debian/m68k on a 386/25 equivalent with only 14Mb (don't ask) of memory several times. Took 5 days, like, but it compiled ``properly''. I doubt it would compile on my 4 meg 486. I don't; I compiled kernels on the same machine when it only had 4Mb. Nor would it run there. And I know it ran on my Falcon with 4Mb... -- James -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
intent to package tochnog
License: GPL tochnog is a finite element analysis program. http://info.uibk.ac.at/c/c8/c813/tn_release/tnhome.html The author calls the executable 'tn' . I should probably change this to 'tochnog' or 'tng' or something. John John Lapeyre [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tucson,AZ http://www.physics.arizona.edu/~lapeyre
Re: pine in other distributions
Kikutani Makoto wrote: On Sun, Oct 04, 1998 at 05:52:47PM +0200, Martin Schulze [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anybody know if other distributions (RedHat, slack...) have Pine package ? They have. If they have it, I assume their license policy is not hard as Debian. Indeed. Debian is know for its maximum pickyness wrt copyrights and licenses. There is a pine-src package which will build a local pine.deb. I see. According to the past pine discussions, it seemed that Pine must be distributed with its source. Is this correct ? I haven't looked at the copyright yet since pine is out of interest for me. From what I saw on the lists the copyrights fails at permitting us to distribute (modified) binaries. Generally speaking all .deb files contain *modified* binaries. That's why there is only a source package. Regards, Joey -- Unable to locate coffee, operator halted. -- Stefan Farsch
Right way to sync
What is the *right* way to sync to slink (or any other distribution)? I looked into dftp and found that it seems more like a method for installing new packages than keeping in sync with the most recent versions. The main thing I'm trying to avoid the duplicate package install problem. For example, dselect gets very confused when I have more than one package version present in my distribution directory. It installes the lower numbered one first and then goes through the successive versions upgrading. This caused a problem with X, for example, when some of the files moved and the uninstall scripts weren't clever enough to handle the soft links. -- Marc Singer
Intent to package: audiofile
I have recently taken over maintainership of Esound from Scott Ellis. While I was going thru the package, I ntoiced that esdplay (an intelligent audio player for esd) requires audiofile to work. Audiofile is a sepearte module in GNOME CVS, but may be found at http://www.68k.org/~michael/audiofile/ The latest version is 0.1.5. Audiofile is released under the GPL. I did not see it listed in dselect/slink as of a few minutes ago. If there are no objections, I will package it. Thanks. Brian -- Brian Almeida [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/~bma/ _ _ _ __| | ___| |__ (_) __ _ _ __ / _` |/ _ \ '_ \| |/ _` | '_ \ Debian GNU/Linux Developer | (_| | __/ |_) | | (_| | | | | PGP Key: 0x3A800C65 \__,_|\___|_.__/|_|\__,_|_| |_| http://www.debian.org Debian Linux: Because Size DOES Matter
Re: PGP in the US (Re: formal documents)
Kikutani Makoto writes: Yes, my PGP is an international version which was built in Japan, and I brought it in my laptop. The international version infringes the RSA patent and so the owner of the patent (PKP?) could theoretically sue you for using it in the US. All they could get is an injunction ordering you to stop, though. There is no real chance that they would bother. If you are feeling paranoid, delete your international version and install the US one. But of course I can't prove it. There is no reason why you would need to do so. The munitions export laws (unrelated to the patent issue) forbid the export of strong pgp from the US, regardless of its origin. You are safe from those as long as you stay in the US. Theoretically, you should delete pgp from your laptop before you take it home. 1) It is not a violation of US law for anyone to use any kind of pgp anywhere. The US has no laws restricting the use of cryptography. 2) It is not a violation of US law to bring any kind of pgp into the US. Infringing a patent is not a crime. 3) It is a violation of US law to export any kind of pgp from the US. This is true even if you brought it here in the first place. 4) It is an infringement of the RSA patent to use pgp-i in the US. You are extremely unlikely to be sued, though. 5) It is not an infringement of the RSA patent to use any kind of pgp outside the US. I've considered to join Debian maintainer before. But I gave up it because the PGP problem is not clear. Don't export it and you are safe from the US Government. Don't use pgp-i in the US and you are safe from PKP. -- John HaslerThis posting is in the public domain. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Do with it what you will. Dancing Horse Hill Make money from it if you can; I don't mind. Elmwood, Wisconsin Do not send email advertisements to this address.
texconfig runs (was Re: Lengthy Debian install procedures)
I suspect strongly that many packages are doing full 'texconfig init' runs rather than running texconfig only for their relevant packages. An example in this case is jadetex. It runs (it's own copy of) 'texconfig init' rather than just generating .fmt's for what it is installing (jadetex and pdfjadetex). I suspect we can eliminate a lot of the delay w/ installing packages like jadetex. I've just done a big NMU of jadetex but I didn't want to fix this since my concept of the true function of texconfig is a little clear, I'm not a TeX wizard, etc. I'll submit a bug against jadetex and also take a look at other packages which run texconfig. Any TeX gurus who have comments or ideas should please feel free to reply to me or to this list. .A. P. [EMAIL PROTECTED]URL:http://www.onShore.com/
