Release-critical Bugreport for March 24, 2000
Bug stamp-out list for Mar 24 03:07 (CST) Total number of release-critical bugs: 190 Number that will disappear after removing packages marked [REMOVE]: 5 -- Package: apache (debian/main) Maintainer: Johnie Ingram [EMAIL PROTECTED] 59365 cron script kills itself 60257 apache-ssl: upgrade changes DocumentRoot! 60486 Apache doesn't show README* in dir listings 60575 /etc/aliases: No such file or directory Package: autofs (debian/main) Maintainer: Justin Maurer [EMAIL PROTECTED] 52132 autofs: Race condition when expiring autofs submounts leaves daemon crippled [STRATEGY] Patch available, waiting for reply from upstream Package: base-config (debian/main) Maintainer: Joey Hess [EMAIL PROTECTED] 59247 apt-setup needs to allow for user interaction from apt-cdrom add Package: bash (debian/main) Maintainer: Matthias Klose [EMAIL PROTECTED] 58404 bash: *ap++ == 0x55 , segmentation fault out of nowhere! Package: bbdb (debian/main) Maintainer: Frederic Lepied [EMAIL PROTECTED] 59177 xemacs20 didn't compile bbdb-gnus on installation Package: bind (debian/main) Maintainer: Bdale Garbee [EMAIL PROTECTED] 59649 bind: Gives core dump Package: boot-floppies (debian/main) Maintainer: Debian Install System Team debian-boot@lists.debian.org 57625 base: PCMCIA cards not recognize during installation 58266 bf-2.2.7: PCMCIA network install is broken 58779 boot-floppies: Can't boot on my Powerpc 58857 The boot floppies do not work with milex raid on root. 60218 error when setting active partition 60306 Serial console does not work on initial boot 60370 libdb2 missing from base? 60371 base, installation glitches (configure network, start new system) 60956 ARM is not supported (patch included) Package: communicator (debian/contrib) Maintainer: Adam Heath [EMAIL PROTECTED] 60193 communicator: buss error when replying to message Package: communicator-smotif-461 (debian/non-free) Maintainer: Adam Heath [EMAIL PROTECTED] 42259 [TBF] If you open a menu and a cookie pops up, the browser hangs 43849 communicator-smotif: Floating point exception error Package: console-tools (debian/main) Maintainer: Yann Dirson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 60917 console-tools: preinst directory problem Package: debconf (debian/main) Maintainer: Joey Hess [EMAIL PROTECTED] 60160 Finnish mirrors not included Package: debiandoc-sgml (debian/main) Maintainer: Ardo van Rangelrooij [EMAIL PROTECTED] 60246 debiandoc-sgml: error handling in two commands is inappropriate 60313 debiandoc2latexps file.sgml removes file.dvi Package: debianutils (debian/main) Maintainer: Guy Maor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 59121 run-parts hangs during /etc/cron.daily runs Package: dgs (debian/main) Maintainer: Ryuichi Arafune [EMAIL PROTECTED] 60286 dgs_0.5.9.1+000228-3(unstable): build error (self dependency) Package: dhelp (debian/main) Maintainer: Marco Budde [EMAIL PROTECTED] 60853 dhelp: uses glimpse insecurely Package: dotfile-bash (debian/main) Maintainer: Debian QA Group debian-qa@lists.debian.org 60060 dotfile-bash doesn't start Package: dpkg (debian/main) Maintainer: Wichert Akkerman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 33237 /etc/alternatives/emacs not managed properly - /usr/bin/emacs doesn't run emacs20 [STRATEGY] Switches to manual-mode too quickly, maintainer will look at it this weekend. 58091 package name Eterm -- eterm Package: emacs19 (debian/main) Maintainer: Mark W. Eichin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 60977 emacs19_19.34-26.4(frozen): build error with setpgrp Package: emacsen-common (debian/main) Maintainer: Rob Browning [EMAIL PROTECTED] 60314 emacs-package-install crashes with octave psgml with emacs20xemacs21 Package: emwin (debian/main) Maintainer: A. Maitland Bottoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] 60773 emwin can't be installed, can't be removed Package: epic4 (debian/main) Maintainer: Joseph Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 58508 Epic pre2.503 has bugs which 2.505 has not Package: exim (debian/main) Maintainer: Mark Baker [EMAIL PROTECTED] 60871 exim_3.12-6.deb depends on libdb1.85, a non-existent package Package: fetchmail (debian/main) Maintainer: Paul Haggart [EMAIL PROTECTED] 43139 fetchmail flushed after failed delivery 50990 fetchmail: mail was fetched and deleted from server but never sent to local MTA Package: fetchmailconf (debian/main) Maintainer: Paul Haggart [EMAIL PROTECTED] 57287 generates wrong config files Package: ftape (debian/main) Maintainer: Christian Meder [EMAIL PROTECTED] 59502 raw ftape devices wrong Package: ftp.debian.org (pseudo) Maintainer: Guy Maor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 59641 nfs-kernel-server: conflicts with Standard package nfs-server 60698 pcmcia-modules-2.0.36 depends on nonexistent package 60702 Please remove mmm from Debian [potato woody] 60707 cricket depends on a nonexistent package 60784 Packages missing from woody only alpha-binaries archive
Re: Becoming a Pkg Mgr.
On Thu, Mar 23, 2000 at 10:32:06AM -0800, Jason C. Leach wrote: hi, How does one become a package manager? I could probably spair enough time to look after one. The New Maintainer team will be re-opening shortly. In the meantime, keep an eye on debian-devel-announce, start reading lists, look for something useful to do, maybe help to correct some bugs, and possibly take part in the sponsoring system (can't remember the URL to look at offhand; check out the -devel-announce archives for the last several months -- maybe it was last summer?). Read the policy and packaging manuals, the developer's reference and of course the Debian Social Contract and DFSG. Good luck! Julian -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Julian Gilbey, Dept of Maths, QMW, Univ. of London. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Debian GNU/Linux Developer, see http://www.debian.org/~jdg Donate free food to the world's hungry: see http://www.thehungersite.com/
Re: 5 days till Bug Horizon
Package: fetchmail (debian/main). Maintainer: Paul Haggart [EMAIL PROTECTED] [HELP] This package needs a new maintainer. (RB) 43139 fetchmail flushed after failed delivery 50990 fetchmail: mail was fetched and deleted from server but never sent to local MTA Is anyone looking at this one. These are both fixed in upstream 5.3.1 (and 5.3.3 is in woody). What is the recommended course of action on this - I would like to try and get involved - and personally know a maintainer who can sponsor me. Should I go for 5.3.3, 5.3.1, 5.3.4 (latest upstream) or attempting to backport the fixes in 5.2.3 (what is currently in potato) This late in the game, you need to backport the fixes to the version in potato. Make a diff of the changes against the current debian source, get it checked over by some knowledgable folks, and then have at it. I will have a go then :) Alan
Re: glibc-compat ???
On Thu, 23 Mar 2000, Robert Varga wrote: On Thu, 23 Mar 2000, Eric Weigel wrote: On Thu, 23 Mar 2000, Hamish Moffatt wrote: On Thu, Mar 23, 2000 at 02:42:26AM -0300, Taupter wrote: Strange. If i can remember, Slink has libc5 compatibility libs. Why not glibc2.0 compatibility libs for potato, as RH-based distros have? They're both libc 6.0 -- how would ld.so know which one you wanted? Any apps which run on 6.0 and not 6.1 are broken and should be fixed. Some things changed from 2.0 to 2.1 so that non broken binaries won't work. One I know about is stat, which is now a macro instead of a function call (breaks smbsh, even if you recompile it) Some other software doesn't work either. One I know about is IBM DB2 database. I don't know why it doesn't work, it just doesn't, and of course I don't have the source. I've thought about compatibility links, but like you said, they're both libc 6.0. Overall though, there doesn't seem to be a lot of broken stuff. The other one it breaks is Oracle 8.0, and one needs to convert Redhat compatibility libraries to be able install it, and a patch from Oracle. I have heard it also broke Applixware, but I am not sure. Robert Varga Applixware is absolutely ok. I personally run Applixware 4.4.2 on my home Potato box, on another Potato and a redhat 5.1 at the company, all of them work without any compat-packages. (Also true for Applixware 5.00M - a pre-release beta) --andor dirner Free science and free software are just two aspects of the same complex reality: long-term human survival. Support humankind, use Linux.
Re: epochs, circular dependancies, and other miscellany
Nick Cabatoff wrote: * epochs not being recognized. A concrete example is provided by a test case I did with cvs; for brevity we'll call it cvs_V instead of cvs_1.10.7-1.99.slink.y2k.1. I broke it into two packages, cvs_5:V and local-config-base-cvs_V-0. When I did a dpkg --purge cvs; apt-get update; apt-get install cvs it would retrieve whichever cvs (cvs_V or cvs_5:V) was in the ftp repository listed first in sources.list. Moreover, the retrieved file doesn't have the epoch prefix. Clearly I've misunderstood the functionning of epochs or apt-get; can someone enlighten me? Ignoring the larger context of your message, cvs in frozen can already be installed noninteractively. Just configure debconf to use the noninteractive frontend.. -- see shy jo
Anyone want to take over plotutils?
I'm trying to give up some of my less central packages because I'd like to spend more time on my others. Is anyone interested in plotutils? Thanks -- Rob Browning [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP=E80E0D04F521A094 532B97F5D64E3930
Re: glibc-compat and upgrading from Slink to Potato using dselect's FTP method.
Hello all I'm near from upgrading my Slink to Potato using dselect's FTP, but I'm afraid if it can drive my system _really_ bad (broken). I tried it six months ago, and the result was a reinstalling Slink from CDs. Did anyone try this way? Worked fine? Taupter
Re: Becoming a Pkg Mgr.
On Thu, Mar 23, 2000 at 10:32:06AM -0800, Jason C. Leach wrote: hi, How does one become a package manager? I could probably spair enough time to look after one. The New Maintainer team will be re-opening shortly. In the meantime, keep an eye on debian-devel-announce, start reading lists, look for something useful to do, maybe help to correct some bugs, and possibly take part in the sponsoring system (can't remember the URL to look at offhand; check out the -devel-announce archives for the last several months -- maybe it was last summer?). http://www.internatif.org/bortzmeyer/debian/sponsor/ Read the policy and packaging manuals, the developer's reference and of course the Debian Social Contract and DFSG. Good luck! Julian -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Julian Gilbey, Dept of Maths, QMW, Univ. of London. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Debian GNU/Linux Developer, see http://www.debian.org/~jdg Donate free food to the world's hungry: see http://www.thehungersite.com/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Shaul Karl [EMAIL PROTECTED] An elephant is a mouse with an operating system.
Re: glibc-compat ???
On 23-Mar-00, 18:08 (CST), Andor Dirner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 23 Mar 2000, Robert Varga wrote: The other one it breaks is Oracle 8.0, and one needs to convert Redhat compatibility libraries to be able install it, and a patch from Oracle. FWIW, I'm running Oracle 8i (SQL*Plus reports v 8.1.5) with the latest patches (as of a month ago) on a potato box with no obvious problems, I don't have any compatibility libs installed. steve -- Steve Greenland [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Please do not CC me on mail sent to this list; I subscribe to and read every list I post to.)
My SSH problems
Could anyone please send me the logs of my last tries to ssh into master? I only get a 'connection closed by foreign host' and want to forward that stuff to the provider. Thanks. Michael -- Michael Meskes | Go SF 49ers! Th.-Heuss-Str. 61, D-41812 Erkelenz| Go Rhein Fire! Tel.: (+49) 2431/72651 | Use Debian GNU/Linux! Email: Michael@Fam-Meskes.De | Use PostgreSQL!
Re: 5 days till Bug Horizon
Le Thu, Mar 23, 2000 at 05:10:13PM -0500, Ben Collins écrivait: This late in the game, you need to backport the fixes to the version in potato. Make a diff of the changes against the current debian source, get it checked over by some knowledgable folks, and then have at it. I think this is quite stupid. fetchmail is an independant package, it won't break anything to use the version in woody ... and it would 10 times easier to do. I'am already going to upload fetchmail 5.3.3 to potato, check the other thread (I think it's on debian-qa). Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog 0C4CABF1 http://tux.u-strasbg.fr/~raphael/ pub CD Debian : http://tux.u-strasbg.fr/~raphael/debian/#cd Formations Linux et logiciels libres : http://www.logidee.com /pub
Fwd: Re: unable to execute
-- Forwarded Message -- Subject: Re: unable to execute Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 21:12:12 -0800 From: Tristan Savatier [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dushara Jayasinghe wrote: I downloaded mpegtv 1.1.0.20-3 (.deb version) from linuxberg and installed it in Corel Linux -which seems to be the same as debian. However, when I tried to execute mtv I get the error 'Segmentation fault' What could cuase this problem? We don't know yet. looks like a problem with the Debian distribution (mtv works fine with all other Linux distributions). It would help if you could forward this message to the Debian support team, since the problem is on their side. Thanks. -t ---
Re: Bash, Keys, Potato
On Thu, Mar 23, 2000 at 06:17:21PM -0300, Rodrigo Castro wrote: I started with no .inputrc, no /etc/profile, no /etc/inputrc and even so I had problems with letter E (upcase only). Any idea? Even with no setup, no config files, I get no success. I upgraded my libreadline4 today and it didn't work either. Hmm, since you are from brazil you might not be used a key layout 100% identical to a North American keyboard. You may have fallen victim to Yann Dirson's 100%-bug-free console-data package. Install the kbd package, and from the console (not X), use the showkey command to determine what scan code is being generated by the E key. If none, you either have a hardware problem or a kernel problem. Otherwise, your console keymap is messed up and you should file a bug against the console-data package. Don't feel bad; Yann Dirson has the default keymap set to some French thing -- this affects every Debian user in the world, and most of the world isn't France. I guess some people take the figurative expression lingua franca too literally. :) -- G. Branden Robinson|Software engineering: that part of Debian GNU/Linux |computer science which is too difficult [EMAIL PROTECTED] |for the computer scientist. roger.ecn.purdue.edu/~branden/ | pgpmq7W4p7ADs.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: blue on black is unreadable
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 13:50:59 -0600
From: Steve Greenland [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: debian-devel@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: blue on black is unreadable
There only are 16 colours, so deciding to never use 4
({dark ,}{blue,red}) of them seems like a bad idea. Brightening them up so
they look good on a black background is good, since hardly anything uses
dark-but-not-black background colours.
No, you doen't use them. I use them a lot, to highlight urls and headers
in mutt, for example.
You're right that I don't use them all, but I do have colour highlighting
stuff turned on in mutt, and I use jed with syntax highlighting for C,
LaTeX, and HTML (in an xterm, not xjed). The thing is that I always have a
black background or else a colour that was already light
Is there a reason why /etc/X11/Xresources/xterm defaults to black on white
instead of gray90 on black?
Because that's what xterms do (by default) on every other single X
implementation ever done? (Ok, that's probably an exageration...but not
completely misleading, either.)
Is that enough of a reason to not change it? Does it break any programs
specifically?
With my colour mods to make ls output visible, could the default
change to be gray90 on black? Most new users won't get around to
finding the xterm resources file for a long time, and I imagine they
would be happier with black bg xterms until they do.
I wouldn't. A lot of people I work with wouldn't. (Many would, of
course). I, for example, find it easier to read black text on light
backgrounds in xterms. My favorite is black on blanchedAlmond. I
don't, however, think that should be Debian's global default.
Hmm, that looks not bad. I notice that my adjusted bright-blue and blue
colours are still dark enough to be easily seen on the blanchedAlmond
background. However, symlinks, device files, and named pipes come out almost
invisible on that background. (I assume you have a nice DIRCOLORS setting
that fixes that, though.) I don't remember if the default on a fresh install
is to have ls use colours or not, but if it is then something should be done
so stuff isn't nearly invisible in an xterm. (If the default is to not use
colours, then leaving it the way it is is ok, I guess.)
(I wonder if the preference for light-on-dark vs dark-on-light depends
on ambient light conditions?)
I usually like to work in a relatively dark room. I think I'm nocturnal or
something (looks at clock... :(
We should cater
to users who don't know where you change everything by having a nice set of
default colours. This isn't like keymaps and stuff, since it only looks
different, and isn't nearly so hard to get used to.
We do cater to them. We have window managers that support themes and
easy ways to change them.
Hrm, I've never used a heavyweight window manager with themes for more than
a few minutes. I think I noticed that the GNOME terminal lets you change
the colour scheme to fairly closely match the Linux console, which seems to
be where the ls default colours work best. (ls's default colours were
definitely chosen with a light-on-dark terminal in mind.)
We have a nice set of default colors. They are easy to modify (in the
xterm case, if you don't have the desire to mess with Xresources, -fg
and -bg work quite nicely). Are they they best possible defaults?
Probably not. But if you change them, probably for every person who you
made happier, there's another you've pissed off.
Why do so many people want to believe that their personal preferences
represent universal truth? I agree that demonstrably bad defaults
(dark-on-dark) should be changed. But the reality is that things like
color selection are such a personal-preference issue that *most* people
will eventually tweak them to their preference, and the best we can (and
should) do is use a *workable* default, and go on.
(If there is a 90% consensus that we change the xterm default to white
on black, and change the kernel definition (or whatever) of blue to
something lighter, then fine, do it. But I strongly believe that you
won't get anywhere near that much agreement.)
I'm one of those people who thought that my preference was universal truth
on this subject. I realize there are a lot of things that I like configured
differently from most people, and that there isn't any one set of settings
that is best for everyone. In the case of terminal colours, I thought most
people really did use black bg terminals, or at least dark something, like
blue. Also, real VT100s and VT220s have black bg screens with amber text.
There's a precedent for black bg terminals outside of X.
If it's not the case that almost everyone uses black bg terms, then I agree
that we shouldn't change it. In my experience, changing xterm colours is
one of the first things I after an install to localize the box to my tastes.
Other Unix users I know do similarly, I think.
I thought that most
Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 24, 2000
On Fri, Mar 24, 2000 at 03:15:02AM -0600 , BugScan reporter wrote:
Bug stamp-out list for Mar 24 03:07 (CST)
Total number of release-critical bugs: 190
Number that will disappear after removing packages marked [REMOVE]: 5
--
Package: apache (debian/main)
Maintainer: Johnie Ingram [EMAIL PROTECTED]
59365 cron script kills itself
60257 apache-ssl: upgrade changes DocumentRoot!
60486 Apache doesn't show README* in dir listings
60575 /etc/aliases: No such file or directory
Package: autofs (debian/main)
Maintainer: Justin Maurer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
52132 autofs: Race condition when expiring autofs submounts leaves daemon
crippled
[STRATEGY] Patch available, waiting for reply from upstream
Package: bash (debian/main)
Maintainer: Matthias Klose [EMAIL PROTECTED]
58404 bash: *ap++ == 0x55 , segmentation fault out of nowhere!
this one is likely to stay
Package: bind (debian/main)
Maintainer: Bdale Garbee [EMAIL PROTECTED]
59649 bind: Gives core dump
fix in Incoming
Package: communicator (debian/contrib)
Maintainer: Adam Heath [EMAIL PROTECTED]
60193 communicator: buss error when replying to message
normal communicator behaviour :(
Package: communicator-smotif-461 (debian/non-free)
Maintainer: Adam Heath [EMAIL PROTECTED]
42259 [TBF] If you open a menu and a cookie pops up, the browser hangs
43849 communicator-smotif: Floating point exception error
see above
Package: debconf (debian/main)
Maintainer: Joey Hess [EMAIL PROTECTED]
60160 Finnish mirrors not included
this is RC?
Package: dhelp (debian/main)
Maintainer: Marco Budde [EMAIL PROTECTED]
60853 dhelp: uses glimpse insecurely
fix in Incoming
Package: dotfile-bash (debian/main)
Maintainer: Debian QA Group debian-qa@lists.debian.org
60060 dotfile-bash doesn't start
Joy said he will do an upload
Package: exim (debian/main)
Maintainer: Mark Baker [EMAIL PROTECTED]
60871 exim_3.12-6.deb depends on libdb1.85, a non-existent package
fix installed some time ago
60988 general: problem with ssh install due to lack of gmp2 package in
frozen
this one should be closed, because user had stable in non-US sources.list
Package: gpm (debian/main)
Maintainer: Zephaniah E. Hull [EMAIL PROTECTED]
59793 gpm: gpm won't start from remote telnet session
should be fixed now
Package: lsof (debian/main)
Maintainer: Jim Mintha [EMAIL PROTECTED]
57203 lsof does not build with 2.3 kernel headers [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Log
for failed build of lsof_4.48-1 (dist=frozen)]
this is a problem, but not RC (IMHO)
Package: man-db (debian/main)
Maintainer: Fabrizio Polacco [EMAIL PROTECTED]
60339 How about testing packages before uploading them? 2.3.14 dies on
unpack
new man-db installed, so maybe it fixes this
Package: modconf (debian/main)
Maintainer: Boot Floppies team debian-boot@lists.debian.org
60182 New screen is drawn on wrong tty if changing tty while module
detection
RC?
Package: netbase (debian/main)
Maintainer: Anthony Towns [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[STRATEGY] Maintainer has fixed upload ready, coordination with sysvinit
is required.
59282 networking killed too early
this should be fixed in Incoming and maybe others
59377 netbase: can't build
60367 portmap isn't started on changing runlevels, breaking NIS/YP and NFS
startup
60374 netbase: networking doesn't play well with NFS root
60517 prerm of netbase hangs
60770 netbase: inetd upgrade breaks services
Package: netscape (debian/contrib)
Maintainer: Adam Heath [EMAIL PROTECTED]
60619 netscape: Error message: 'Bus error' when trying to run netscape.
old story
Package: python-base (debian/main)
Maintainer: Gregor Hoffleit [EMAIL PROTECTED]
61004 Python-base 1.5.2-9 still depends on libdb1.85
this is a SPARC build problem, on i386 it's OK
Package: spamfilter (debian/main)
Maintainer: Brian White [EMAIL PROTECTED]
60704 spamfilter depends on nonexistent package
geez, filing 2 bug reports, because the previous had been tagged only as
normal, but grave? But yes, he's right about the wrong dependency.
Package: tar (debian/main)
Maintainer: Bdale Garbee [EMAIL PROTECTED]
60824 tar: doesn't build from source (src/Makefile.in not up to date)
fix in Incoming
Package: tetex-base (debian/main)
Maintainer: teTeX maintainers [EMAIL PROTECTED]
42698 tetex-base: The french option of babel is broken
fix should be in preparation
Package: tetex-bin (debian/main)
Maintainer: teTeX maintainers [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[HELP] Christoph has set up a mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED]
to discuss work on these packages.
36671 tetex-bin: xdvi fails on gzipped files
Petr Cech
--
Debian GNU/Linux maintainer - www.debian.{org,cz}
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: blue on black is unreadable
Peter Cordes [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Unless the darkish colours get used as alternate background colours, they
are wasted. There only are 16 colours, so deciding to never use 4
({dark ,}{blue,red}) of them seems like a bad idea. Brightening them up so
they look good on a black background is good, since hardly anything uses
dark-but-not-black background colours.
No it isn't. By acting against the ANSI standard, you will just move
the problem to other configurations: Users logged in from Non-Debian
machines will still see the unreadable combination. Just not using
black/blue is more prudent.
It's bad that we're stuck with this ...
Is there a reason why /etc/X11/Xresources/xterm defaults to black on white
instead of gray90 on black?
Because some people think it is the superior combination (it works
good on paper). Others think exactly the opposite.
With my colour mods to make ls output visible, could the default
change to be gray90 on black?
With this being highly religious a decision, I'd rather chicken out
and say: leave it be.
--
Robbe
Intention to hijack: {i,w}{danish,swedish}
I intent to hijack the danish and swedish ispell dictionary and wordlist. The packages seems unmaintained and have 4 unaknowledged bugs more than 200 days old. I have unsucessfully tried to contact the maintainer but got no respons. If anyone else is willing to do the swedish packages they are welcome, if not I would try taking care of them. If noone objects within a week I will begin to look at the packages and process the bugs and upload new packages to frozen some days after that. -- They say that a neutral character would get either Fire or Frost Brand.
ITP: manpages-da
In SSLUG (swedish/danish LUG) we have begun translating man-pages to danish. when we have finished a nice set (like file-utils) I will make a debian package out of it. -- You can get a genuine Amulet of Yendor by doing the following: --More--
Re: Do we have a package of W3C's www-lib library?
On Friday 10 March 2000, at 15 h 4, the keyboard of Stephane Bortzmeyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do my eyes deceive me or are we really without a package of Libwww - the W3C Protocol Library, http://www.w3.org/Library/. One Debian developer made an unofficial package but which I find too rapidly made, so I made mine: ftp://ftp.internatif.org/pub/debian/UNOFFICIAL/ (aptable source) The packages are libw3c-libwww5 and libw3c-libwww-dev. I do *not* intend to upload them or to maintain them. I need this package for my work, but I have no time to take care of it (it is a huge and complicated package, 100 % free but long to compile). Candidates welcome.
Re: glibc-compat
On Thu, 23 Mar 2000, Peter Cordes wrote: Is it possible to run stuff that is linked against glibc-2.0.7 (rh5.2 used that, so I imagine a lot of commercial stuff linked against that, or at least people have old commercial stuff linked against it and would rather not pay for a new version.) Can you LD_PRELOAD (an old) libc? (with a wrapper script to set LD_PRELOAD.) Is there a way to do it at all without using chroot or hacking ld.so for special cases? Obviously it is possible, but is it possible practically and usefully? Hi all, I'd like to know this as well! Yes, I know, the correct thing to do is to ask politely the vendor to re-compile under glibc2.1, and I plan to do that. But at the same time I'd like to know if there's a quick fix for this. I originated this whole thread in debian-user; the app that does not work for me is the F compiler from Imagine1 (www.uni-comp.com/imagine1). It's a free (as in beer) commercial compiler, which has been recently made available in its full version. The errors appear in the linking stage, it seems the run-time library (libf90.a) needs glibc2.0. People with glibc2.1 under RedHat or Suse can run it successfully by installing compat-glibc-5.2-2.0.7.1.i386.rpm, and then using -L/usr/i386-glibc20-linux/lib on the compile command line. TIA, Jose
Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 24, 2000
On 03/24/00 Petr Cech wrote: Package: communicator (debian/contrib) Maintainer: Adam Heath [EMAIL PROTECTED] 60193 communicator: buss error when replying to message normal communicator behaviour :( At GUADEC Keith Packard told me that some problems with netscape/ communicator was actually a bug in xlib. Maybe someone could try to reproduce this bug with XFree86 4.0 and backport the fix if it works there? lupus -- - [EMAIL PROTECTED] debian/rules
Re: of bash and ...sbin/
Robert Woodcock [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Without going in depth as to what traceroute and ping are (a fruitless flame war) Facts can not build a flame war. Opinions (about depth or somesuch) can. suffice it to say that I disagree with your deeper comment. Ok. These 'boundaries' are completely arbitrary, since as pointed out earlier, Herbert Xu isn't willing to change traceroute. Perhaps we should ask Dan Quinlan? Indeed. This way all Linux variants can go through this change. Traditionally, it was /sbin/traceroute and it makes sense to reverse this decision only when a new standard mandates it. [mv /usr/bin/mtr /usr/sbin/mtr ?] If it is really to go in sbin, then I shall also take the suid-bit off of it, since obviously only root will be using it anyway. Nope. Users will still want to use it. FWIW, suid should be replaced by a capability, anyway, sooner or later. -- Robbe
Is someone working on Jazz++ ?
Hello, I noticed Jazz++ (www.jazzware.com) is now released under the GPL, is there anyone working on it? Unfortunately I don't have the time to do it, but I'd like to see it packaged. It is the best linux midi sequencer nowadays. Regards, -- Eduardo Marcel Maçan[EMAIL PROTECTED] Colégio Bandeiranteshttp://www.colband.com.br
UPS setup problems (apcuspd and genpower)
A few days ago, I posted this to the debian-users list, but got no takers. Perhaps someone here has some ideas. Thanks. . I recently purchased an APC Back-UPS Pro 650, but have been unable to get the UPS the daemons to interact with my system. The system is a Dell Workstation 410 Linux hilbert 2.2.13 #1 SMP Fri Mar 17 13:57:34 EST 2000 i686 unknown with a current potato configuration via a fresh potato install (gotta love the new ext2 fs and MD5 passwords!) The apcupsd is communicating well with the APC unit: /etc/apcuspd.status shows: APC : Mar 22 09:06:42 CABLE: APC Cable 940-0095A UPSMODEL : Back-UPS Pro 650 UPSMODE : Stand Alone UPSNAME : UPS_IDEN ULINE: 119.5 Volts MLINE: 119.5 Volts NLINE: 118.8 Volts FLINE: 60.0 Hz VOUTP: 119.5 Volts LOUTP: 049.4 Load Capacity BOUTP: 13.8 Volts BCHAR: 100.0 Batt. Charge TIME : 17.0 Minutes SENSE: HIGH WAKEUP : 000 Cycles SLEEP: 020 Cycles LOTRANS : 106.0 Volts HITRANS : 127.0 Volts CHARGE : 000.0 Percent BFAIL: 0x08 Status Flag ALARM: Always LASTEVNT : POWER FAILURE LOWBATT : 02 Minutes The apcupsd.conf is appended at the end. Despite having put an explicit TIMEOUT 300 in the configuration file, the machine stays up and the battery winds down. When the AC plug is pulled to test, the BFAIL tag changes to 0x10, the LASTEVENT is updated, the voltages go to zero and the battery charge diminishes. At *no* time are any messages printed to the terminal windows (to indicate power failure, warning logouts imminent, power resumed, etc). So I am rather confused. apcupsd collects valid data but /usr/sbin/powersc doesn't act on it. I have also tried genpower (/sbin/genpowerd /dev/ttyS0 apc-pnp) (which is the correct type for the APC Cable 940-0095A. The /etc/upsstatus *always* says OK even if the plug is pulled. Any suggestions would be most welcome. Thanks Tom ## apcupsd.conf v1.0 ## # # apcupsd POSIX config file # Updated for Debian/GNU Linux by Leon Breedt ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) # CONTROL string CONTROL /usr/sbin/powersc # UPSCABLE [ simple | smart | #940-00(20B,23A,24B,24C,24G,95A,95C) | #940-15(24C) | #ether ] # UPSCABLE 940-0095A # UPSTYPE [ backups | sharebasic | netups | # backupspro | smartvsups | # newbackupspro | backupspropnp | # smartups | matrixups | sharesmart ] # UPSTYPE backupspropnp # UPSCLASS [ standalone | shareslave | sharemaster | netslave | netmaster ] UPSCLASS standalone # UPSMODE [ disable | share | net | sharenet ] UPSMODE disable #DEVICE string /dev/serial port DEVICE /dev/ttyS0 #LOCKFILE path to lockfile LOCKFILE /var/lock #ACCESS string [ true | false ] Enable Access Support ACCESS true # ANNOY int 30 0 disables ANNOY 30 # DELAY int 60 0 disables DELAY 60 # NOLOGON string [ disable | timeout | percent | minutes | always ] NOLOGON timeout # PROCFS int 120 0 disables update rate procfs-type of current statu s PROCFS 30 # LOGGING int 500 0 disables rate update log file of current status LOGGING 300 # TIMEOUT time is seconds to run on UPS, powerfails TIMEOUT 300 # BATTERYLEVEL precent of battery charge for shutdown 10 BATTERYLEVEL 10 # MINUTES time in minutes of remainning battery charge before shutdown 5 MINUTES 5 # SENSITIVITY char H,M,L default H SENSITIVITY H # WAKEUP int 0,60,180,300 Cycles default 0 WAKEUP 60 # SLEEP int 20,180,300,600 Cycles default 20 SLEEP 20 # LOTRANSFER int 0,1,2,3 default 2 LOTRANSFER 2 # HITRANSFER int 0,1,2,3 default 2 HITRANSFER 3 # RETURNCHARGE int 0,1,2,3 default 3 RETURNCHARGE 1 # BEEPSTATE char 0,T,L,N default 0 BEEPSTATE L # SELFTEST string 336,168,ON,OFF default 336 SELFTEST 336 # # UPSNAME string UPSNAME UPS_IDEN # REPLACE string date format mm/dd/yy #REPLACE 12/13/93 # BATTCMD string #BATTCMD # TIMECMD string #TIMECMD # LOADCMD string #LOADCMD # LIMITCMD string #LIMITCMD # PWRCMD string #PWRCMD # RETCMD string #RETCMD # REMOTECMD string #REMOTECMD # NETTIME int #NETTIME 100 # NETPORT int #NETPORT # MASTER string #MASTER # SLAVE string #SLAVE #SLAVE #SLAVE #SLAVE #SLAVE #SLAVE #SLAVE #SLAVE #SLAVE #SLAVE # USERMAGIC string #USERMAGIC # HTTPACCESS [ true | false ] enable web-interface - defaults to false #HTTPACCESS true # HTTPPORT port port to use for interface - defaults to 1999 #HTTPPORT 1999
Re: blue on black is unreadable
Peter Cordes [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In the case of terminal colours, I thought most people really did use black bg terminals, or at least dark something, like blue. Also, real VT100s and VT220s have black bg screens with amber text. There's a precedent for black bg terminals outside of X. Light (Amber, Green, Gray) on Black terminals probably made the most sense, back then. Most people will concur that a light background means too much eyestrain on CRT rates of 60 Hz or less. Low-end computers followed this trend (C64: amazingly readable lightblue/darkblue, Amiga: white/darkblue, IBM-PC: Gray,Green/Black) With the advent of powerful workstation monitors delivering 70 Hz or more, the most glaring problem of black/white became less and less important. I'll throw in another URL:http://www.dgp.toronto.edu/people/ematias/faq/S/S-9.html (Anwers from comp.human-factors to Which screen colors look best / produce the least eye strain?) -- Robbe
ITP: libsafe-hole-perl
This perl module (Safe::Hole) is needed for packaging MiniVend, which is in progress. Ciao Racke
Re: epochs, circular dependancies, and other miscellany
On Mar 23, Joey Hess wrote: Ignoring the larger context of your message, cvs in frozen can already be installed noninteractively. Just configure debconf to use the noninteractive frontend.. Fine, except I can't use frozen right now and cvs was just an example.
Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 24, 2000
Package: emacs19 (debian/main) Maintainer: Mark W. Eichin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 60977 emacs19_19.34-26.4(frozen): build error with setpgrp Already NMU'd. Package: exim (debian/main) Maintainer: Mark Baker [EMAIL PROTECTED] 60871 exim_3.12-6.deb depends on libdb1.85, a non-existent package Binary only recompile fixes this, in incoming. Package: modconf (debian/main) Maintainer: Boot Floppies team debian-boot@lists.debian.org 60182 New screen is drawn on wrong tty if changing tty while module detection A solution for this was suggested. Needs to use `tty` instead of a hardcoded /dev/tty. Package: saytime (debian/main) Maintainer: Charles Briscoe-Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] 60733 saytime only screeches almost ununderstandably I've never had this problem. It even works on my sparc, and has worked for my i386 since I first used it in bo. Perhaps this is a DMA problem that the user has setup wrong with their mono? Package: scalapack (debian/main) Maintainer: Philipp Frauenfelder [EMAIL PROTECTED] 55272 scalapack: can't build from source 58386 scalapack_1.6-12(frozen): build error (undefined symbols) 60530 scalapack: fails to build on sparc Checking into this as I write this email. -- ---===-=-==-=---==-=-- / Ben Collins -- ...on that fantastic voyage... -- Debian GNU/Linux \ ` [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ' `---=--===-=-=-=-===-==---=--=---'
Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 24, 2000
On Fri, Mar 24, 2000 at 10:30:21AM -0500, Ben Collins wrote: Package: saytime (debian/main) Maintainer: Charles Briscoe-Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] 60733 saytime only screeches almost ununderstandably I've never had this problem. It even works on my sparc, and has worked for my i386 since I first used it in bo. Perhaps this is a DMA problem that the user has setup wrong with their mono? I don't have this problem either, maybe a sound card problem? -- *--* Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *--* Voice: 425.739.4247 *--* Fax: 425.827.9577 *--* HTTP://www.otak.com/~lawrence/ -- - - - - - - O t a k i n c . - - - - -
Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 24, 2000
Petr Cech wrote: Package: man-db (debian/main) Maintainer: Fabrizio Polacco [EMAIL PROTECTED] 60339 How about testing packages before uploading them? 2.3.14 dies on unpack new man-db installed, so maybe it fixes this While we're on this, we ran into this problem last night with and upgrade of slink - potato. Apt kept on failing saying dpkg failed, something about -fsys-tarfile. So we then typed: apt-get install dpkg apt and then reran the upgrade and the problem went away. Go figure... -- Martijn van Oosterhout [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trust the computer industry to shorten Year 2000 to Y2K. It was this kind of thinking that caused the problem in the first place.
Re: blue on black is unreadable
On 24-Mar-00, 03:22 (CST), Peter Cordes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Steve Greenland [EMAIL PROTECTED] Because that's what xterms do (by default) on every other single X implementation ever done? (Ok, that's probably an exageration...but not completely misleading, either.) Is that enough of a reason to not change it? Does it break any programs specifically? It doesn't break programs, particularly, but it breaks configurations -- people whove changed only the foreground or background, or people who've set up other program's coloring to work on a black-on-white xterm. (I assume you have a nice DIRCOLORS setting that fixes that, though.) No, I think colored ls is the spawn of the devil. :-) (Actually I find colored ls a huge distraction, and all the information I need is provided by the '-F' option of ls) (I wonder if the preference for light-on-dark vs dark-on-light depends on ambient light conditions?) I usually like to work in a relatively dark room. I think I'm nocturnal or something (looks at clock... :( And I tend to work in well lit rooms, even at night -- so from our amazing sample of two, there is a correlation! [*big snip*] You've got a lot of valid points; I agree that black-on-white xterms do glare a little, although I've never had a real problem with them (when I use other people's systems, I hardly ever mess with the colors, even for a few days of work.) But the current defaults are defensible: it's the world-wide X standard default. Anything else amounts to personal preference and will promote a continuous stream of bug reports and complaints. Steve -- Steve Greenland [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Please do not CC me on mail sent to this list; I subscribe to and read every list I post to.)
Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 24, 2000
Hi, On Fri, Mar 24, 2000 at 03:15:02AM -0600, BugScan reporter wrote: Package: imlib-progs (debian/main) Maintainer: Ossama Othman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 60052 imlib-progs: imlib_config segfaulting without /etc/imlib/imrc I'll fix this later today. Sorry for the delay folks. End of academic quarter crunch has been taking alot of my time. :-( -Ossama -- Ossama Othman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Distributed Object Computing Laboratory, Univ. of California at Irvine 1024D/F7A394A8 - 84ED AA0B 1203 99E4 1068 70E6 5EB7 5E71 F7A3 94A8
Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 24, 2000
On Fri, Mar 24, 2000 at 03:15:02AM -0600, BugScan reporter wrote: Package: gnucash (debian/main) Maintainer: Tyson Dowd [EMAIL PROTECTED] 60417 docs are split between /usr/doc/gnucash and /usr/share/doc/gnucash 60615 gnucash: LANG=de_DE does weird things 60655 should depend on libesd0 | libesd-alsa0, not just libesd0 I just noticed that #60615 and 60655 are fixed in woody's gnucash package, gnucash_1.2.5.cvs.2204-1. #60417 is easy to fix. If the maintainer doesn't speak up now, I will take gnucash_1.2.5.cvs.2204-1, fix #60417 and upload it to frozen and unstable as NMU. Gregor pgpaWT8inEN5b.pgp Description: PGP signature
Signing Packages.gz
Hi, To my understanding the package process is fairly secure on the incoming side of Debian's package managment system. Maintainers sign their uploads which prevents a man-in-the-middle attack. These packages are then checksumed in Packages.gz, but nowhere is that file signed, that I know of. This opens up the users to an ftp man-in-the-middle attack during the upgrade process. The only way a user can currently be sure he has a system from the code the maintainers use is to compile all the packages himself (I'm speaking from a truly paranoid security standpoint here :) ), since the *dsc files are signed. So my question is, what are your thoughts on adding a signature to the current Packages.gz file, or adding a similar *dsc file for it, which is then signed? Are there any reasons why this hasn't been done yet besides the obvious nobody has time? :-) Thanks. Please CC me on replies, since I'm not on the list. - Chris -- --- Chase the dream, not the competition. - motto of the Nemesis Air Racing Team
Re: blue on black is unreadable
On Fri, Mar 24, 2000 at 03:29:07PM +0100, Robert Bihlmeyer wrote: With the advent of powerful workstation monitors delivering 70 Hz or more, the most glaring problem of black/white became less and less important. Even on 85Hz or even higher vertical frequencies, I find black-on-white XTerms quite hard to read. When you combine that with the fact that most people aren't using 640*480 resolution anymore, but (much) higher modes, but the font size in XTerm doesn't enlarge automagically with the screen resolution (why should it, one might ask), you get something barely usable. I may be an exception since I usually wear photo-sensible glasses to prevent eye-strain (and headaches), but I can't say I've seen many other `normal' people satisfied by the default XTerm appearance. BTW, FWIW, when in X, I use 1024*768*32*85, gray-on-black XTerm, font size 20. Although I still prefer the console :) -- enJoy -*/\*- don't even try to pronounce my first name
Re: blue on black is unreadable
On 24-Mar-00, 10:19 (CST), Steve Greenland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (I wonder if the preference for light-on-dark vs dark-on-light depends on ambient light conditions?) I usually like to work in a relatively dark room. I think I'm nocturnal or something (looks at clock... :( And I tend to work in well lit rooms, even at night -- so from our amazing sample of two, there is a correlation! And the link (http://www.dgp.toronto.edu/people/ematias/faq/S/S-9.html) that someone else provided said this: In an experiment with light- or dark-adapted subjects identifying target letters within a letter string from positive or negative displays, I also found interactions between adaptation level and display polarity (Fischer, 1992). Thus, the display of choice probably depends on your workplace illumination. (presumably with a sample count of more than 2) It also said this: Saturated blue should not be used for the presentation of fine detail, because the central part of the fovea is relatively insensitive to that color. For similar reasons, blue is an excellent background color. (Of course, that promotes light-on-dark) sg -- Steve Greenland [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Please do not CC me on mail sent to this list; I subscribe to and read every list I post to.)
Problem with Mail-Followup-To: header (was Release-critical Bugreport for March 24, 2000)
Even in your message ossama, I see that there is the username (ossama) in the Mail-Followup-To: header. I see also that every message with this error comes from a 1.1.9i version of mutt. What about it? bye Christian -- | Christian Surchi | www.firenze.linux.it/~csurchi| www. | | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | gnu. | | FLUG: www.firenze.linux.it | Debian GNU/Linux: www.debian.org | org | Real computer scientists don't comment their code. The identifiers are so long they can't afford the disk space.
ITP: freeswan
I intend to package FreeS/WAN, the Linux IPSec
framework, available at www.freeswan.org.
I can hopefully provide kernel-patch packages
for 2.0, 2.2 and 2.3 (2.4) kernels.
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED],havoc,gaeshido}.fi,{debian,wanderer}.org,stonesoft.com}
unix, linux, debian, networks, security, | Chaos reigns within.
kernel, TCP/IP, C, perl, free software, | Reflect, repent, and reboot.
mail, www, sw devel, unix admin, hacks. | Order shall return.
Re: ITP: freeswan
Tommi Virtanen wrote: I intend to package FreeS/WAN, the Linux IPSec framework, available at www.freeswan.org. I can hopefully provide kernel-patch packages for 2.0, 2.2 and 2.3 (2.4) kernels. Great, does anybody know what kind of compatibility exists between freeswan and f-secure-vpn and sonicwall-vpn and checkpoint-vpn They all say that they are rfc-compliant -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] * vaan olkoon teidän puheenne 'on,on' tahi 'ei,ei' * * mitä siihen lisätään on pahasta.Matteus 5:37 *
Re: ITP: freeswan
Lauri Tischler was said to been seen saying: Great, does anybody know what kind of compatibility exists between freeswan and f-secure-vpn and sonicwall-vpn and checkpoint-vpn They all say that they are rfc-compliant FreeS/WAN is supposed to be able interop with checkpoint and NAI's solution among others... I have a sonicwall here in the office but haven't been able to test it although sonicwall claims to interop with checkpoint which would seem that freeswan would interop with it... Respectfully, Jeremy T. Bouse UnderGrid Network Services, LLC -- ,-, | Jeremy T. Bouse - UnderGrid Network Services, LLC - www.UnderGrid.net | | All messages from this address should be atleast PGP/GPG signed | | Public PGP/GPG key available through http://wwwkeys.us.pgp.net| | If received unsigned (without requesting as such) DO NOT trust it! | | [EMAIL PROTECTED] - NIC Whois: JB5713 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] | `-' pgpaJ6o5IGuLL.pgp Description: PGP signature
OTP and potato
I haven't been able to use my old, locally compiled, PAM module for one time passwords with potato. If somebody has a working setup I'd like to know how did he made it... -- ciao, Marco
Re: 5 days till Bug Horizon
On Fri, 24 Mar 2000, Raphael Hertzog wrote: Le Thu, Mar 23, 2000 at 05:10:13PM -0500, Ben Collins écrivait: This late in the game, you need to backport the fixes to the version in potato. Make a diff of the changes against the current debian source, get it checked over by some knowledgable folks, and then have at it. I think this is quite stupid. fetchmail is an independant package, it won't break anything to use the version in woody ... and it would 10 times easier to do. I'am already going to upload fetchmail 5.3.3 to potato, check the other thread (I think it's on debian-qa). Ok then... I won't do anything. Better subscribe to debian-qa as well then. One day I'll find something useful to do :( Alan
Re: 5 days till Bug Horizon
On Fri, Mar 24, 2000 at 11:24:23PM +, Alan Clucas wrote: Ok then... I won't do anything. Better subscribe to debian-qa as well then. One day I'll find something useful to do :( You're quite welcome to go through the netbase bugs, and send in patches. I've got a major redesign of a fundamental interface that needs doing [0], some obscure bugs that need fixing, and some manpages that need writing and/or fixing... It's not hard to find something to do if you're willing to look, and you're not too picky... Cheers, aj [0] update-inetd needs a rewrite. It also needs to remain more or less compatible. It also needs to end up being very tidy and flexible. I'll end up working on this eventually, if no one else does, but if someone else it first... -- Anthony Towns [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://azure.humbug.org.au/~aj/ I don't speak for anyone save myself. GPG encrypted mail preferred. ``The thing is: trying to be too generic is EVIL. It's stupid, it results in slower code, and it results in more bugs.'' -- Linus Torvalds pgpSmt2t5wHyq.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: OTP and potato
On Fri, Mar 24, 2000 at 11:06:08PM +0100, Marco d'Itri wrote: I haven't been able to use my old, locally compiled, PAM module for one time passwords with potato. If somebody has a working setup I'd like to know how did he made it... Maybe if you explained exactly what isn't working, you'de get better results. -- ---===-=-==-=---==-=-- / Ben Collins -- ...on that fantastic voyage... -- Debian GNU/Linux \ ` [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ' `---=--===-=-=-=-===-==---=--=---'
