Re: RBL report..

[Jason Gunthorpe]

On Thu, 30 Mar 2000, Craig Sanders wrote:

> you were lucky enough to be able to set up something at work. many
> others will be able to setup something similar. debian developers
> should have the option of a uucp account from one of the debian servers
> (trivially easy for us to set up). 

I think we have been over this in various forms, I don't think we can do
it without some complications, it would be inapproriate use of sponsored
machines/bandwidth..

It would be better for someone else to provide a service like this.

Jason

Re: RBL report..

[Nils Jeppe]

On Thu, 30 Mar 2000, Craig Sanders wrote:

> yep. the DUL lists dynamic (dialup) IPs, it doesn't list static IPs.
> that's why it's called the MAPS Dialup User List.

Well then I have to agree, DUL is bad, because it's near impossible to
kill dial-in spammers, except to have their accounts revoked of
course. Blocking the IPs is really stupid and ineffective and whoever
thought of that bright idea should be given a very big Clue.

This however also means it's different enough from ORBS that I completely
fail to see how people can throw them in together.


-- 
 "Kif, if there's one thing I don't need it's your 'I don't think that's
  wise' attitude."
--- Zap Brannigan

Re: RBL report..

[Craig Sanders]

On Sun, Mar 26, 2000 at 08:56:26PM +1000, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 26, 2000 at 02:41:09AM -0800, Joseph Carter wrote:
> > The domain's technical contact.
> 
> Ideally, yes. In practice, I'd say that's no more likely to work
> than [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

a lot less likely. sending to [EMAIL PROTECTED] is the right thing to do
as a postmaster account or alias is required by the relevant RFCs.

"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" is the only address which is *required*. all of
the other common ones (hostmaster, webmaster, abuse, etc) are either
strongly recommended or just common practice/convention.

from section 6.3 of RFC-822:

 6.3.  RESERVED ADDRESS

  It often is necessary to send mail to a site, without  know-
 ing  any  of its valid addresses.  For example, there may be mail
 system dysfunctions, or a user may wish to find  out  a  person's
 correct address, at that site.

  This standard specifies a single, reserved  mailbox  address
 (local-part)  which  is  to  be valid at each site.  Mail sent to
 that address is to be routed to  a  person  responsible  for  the
 site's mail system or to a person with responsibility for general
 site operation.  The name of the reserved local-part address is:

Postmaster

 so that "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" is required to be valid.

 Note:  This reserved local-part must be  matched  without  sensi-
tivity to alphabetic case, so that "POSTMASTER", "postmas-
ter", and even "poStmASteR" is to be accepted.


this requirement is also mentioned in at least RFC-1123 ("Requirements
for Internet Hosts -- Application and Support"), RFC-1648 ("Postmaster
Convention for X.400 Operations"), and RFC-2142 ("MAILBOX NAMES FOR
COMMON SERVICES, ROLES AND FUNCTIONS").

craig

--
craig sanders

Re: RBL report..

[Nils Jeppe]

On Wed, 29 Mar 2000, Lawrence Walton wrote:

> Nils: you still need a DNS named, static, route-able IP to be your own host.

Only for incoming, and with incoming, you decide if you want to use ORBS
or not. I'd say most public providers don't use it, for obvious reasons.

ORBS only affects you when you send mail, and that you can do from
dynamic, too, if need be.

> Branden: You might consider getting a static.

The only way to live, imho. ;-)




-- 
 "Kif, if there's one thing I don't need it's your 'I don't think that's
  wise' attitude."
--- Zap Brannigan

Re: RBL report..

[Nathan E Norman]

On Wed, Mar 29, 2000 at 02:31:50PM -0700, Jason Gunthorpe wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 29 Mar 2000, Larry Gilbert wrote:
> 
> > Why is murphy.debian.org not adding a "Received:" header to show where
> > messages are originating?  This information is useful when trying to
> > track down actual spammers.  Is this being deliberately omitted or does
> > qmail just normally not include this info?
> 
> This is deliberately removed, we had some problems a year or so ago with
> the received lines getting too long for some mailers. We are looking at
> putting them back.

Couldn't the original Received: headers be renamed to X-Received: (or
something like that; although I could figure out how to make that
happen with formail I don't know my mail headers well enough to know
if X-Received is already used by something else).

-- 
Nathan Norman "Eschew Obfuscation"  Network Engineer
GPG Key ID 1024D/51F98BB7http://home.midco.net/~nnorman/
Key fingerprint = C5F4 A147 416C E0BF AB73  8BEF F0C8 255C 51F9 8BB7


pgpVUXATe6qvd.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: RBL report..

[Craig Sanders]

On Tue, Mar 28, 2000 at 07:14:58PM +, Alexander Koch wrote:

> DUL is interesting. I changed my mind on that. I rather say we use it
> since the amount of spam is certainly increasing the last weeks and
> DUL is understandable.
>
> Craig?

obviously, i agree - i've been arguing for us to use the DUL for ages.

most of the recent spam would have been blocked by using MAPS RSS
(relays.mail-abuse.org), though...and not by MAPS DUL.

IMO, we should use both. individually they are quite effective in
blocking spam, but they are even better when used together.

craig

--
craig sanders

Re: RBL report..

[Lawrence Walton]

On Thu, Mar 30, 2000 at 07:58:22AM +1000, Craig Sanders wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 29, 2000 at 01:21:52PM -0800, Lawrence Walton wrote:
> > Nils: you still need a DNS named, 
> 
> nope, DUL doesn't care whether you have a DNS entry and a matching
> reverse lookup.
> 
> > static, 
> 
> yep. the DUL lists dynamic (dialup) IPs, it doesn't list static IPs.
> that's why it's called the MAPS Dialup User List.
> 
> > route-able IP to be your own host.
> 
> DUL doesn't care if you are routeable or not (but it's a basic requirement
> for communicating on the net, anyway) 
> 
> 
> like most of the people arguing against the DUL, you are either wrong in
> your facts or deliberately spreading misinformation.
> 
> craig
> 
> --
> craig sanders
> 
> 
> -- 
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
Craig I meant you need those things to have a smtp HOST. You know; to send and 
recive email, I was not commenting about 
DUL in any form. So to say I was spreadding FUD is foolish, maybe you could of 
asked for more information, or 
asked me to defined the context better. Stow your flamethrower for somthing 
worthy of setting on fire. :>

-- 
*--* Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
*--* Voice: 425.739.4247
*--* Fax: 425.827.9577
*--* HTTP://www.otak-k.com/~lawrence/
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- - - - - - O t a k  i n c . - - - - - 

Re: RBL report..

[Craig Sanders]

On Wed, Mar 29, 2000 at 11:16:32PM +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 30, 2000 at 07:58:22AM +1000, Craig Sanders wrote:
> 
> > yep. the DUL lists dynamic (dialup) IPs, it doesn't list static IPs.
> > that's why it's called the MAPS Dialup User List.
>
> Unfortunately that is not correct. Both NTL's cablemodems and some of
> BT's ADSL modems are listed in the DUL. I'm sure it won't effect many
> people but Alan Cox will probably have problems (after all they are
> going to be the only options for many people in the UK).

read their policy. they explicitly state that if they make a mistake
and accidentally list a static IP then they will remove it from the DUL
immediately.

craig

--
craig sanders

Re: RBL report..

[Craig Sanders]

On Wed, Mar 29, 2000 at 11:01:12AM -0500, jpb wrote:
> Hamish Moffatt wrote:
> > On Tue, Mar 28, 2000 at 11:33:41PM -0800, Joseph Carter wrote:
> > > often than not knows better.  (Let pacbell.net's shoody NT mail server
> > > route MY mail?  NOT LIKELY!)
> > 
> > Have you ever had mail actually disappear through their server, or do
> > you just distrust it because it's running on NT? Seriously?
> > Hell, Joseph, have you ever stopped to read one of your own posts to
> > see what you really sound like?
> > 
> > > So there's at least a margin of error.  And don't you EVEN TRY to tell me
> > > that if I don't like my ISP that I should get another.  There are an awful
> > > lot of people out there who simply CAN'T DO THAT.  Expecting them to is
> > > even more of an example of just how wrong the DUL is from its beginning.
> > 
> > What is the exact reason why you cannot get another ISP Joseph?
> > Have you been blacklisted by all the others in your area already?
> 
> In a lot of areas, if you want DSL or cablemodem you're stuck with only
> one (usually pretty clueless) ISP to choose.  

> And fyi before I started using uucp over tcp, I used to lose mail
> going through bellsouth's server.

this is one of the several methods that have been suggested (numerous
times) for dialup/dynamic users to reliably receive and send their mail.

other methods suggested include: smtp-over-ssh and relay authentication
using pop-before-smtp, SMTP Auth, or SSL certificates as provided by
postfix-tls.

> Now that I switched to Time-Warner and a cablemodem, I still have to
> route my outgoing mail via uucp to my machine at work because the
> dynamic ips I get on my cablemodem are spamblocked by the servers at
> my brother's university.

this point has been made before - it doesn't matter whether debian uses
the DUL or not, dialup users are going to have to relay their mail
through legitimate mail hosts anyway as DUL is a very popular service
with mail system administrators, and getting more popular every day.
eventually users will have to relay their mail somehow if they want to
send any mail at all.

you were lucky enough to be able to set up something at work. many
others will be able to setup something similar. debian developers
should have the option of a uucp account from one of the debian servers
(trivially easy for us to set up). 

other, less fortunate, dialup users will have to beg or buy a mail
service from somewhere. providing this service could be done as a
commercial venture (there are already commercial services offering uucp
accounts), or as a non-profit co-operative. it's not rocket-science.

a free (or low cost) uucp mail service is a perfect adjunct to a
dynamic DNS service, it's not terribly difficult to set up or to
administer...and could be entirely automated just by performing the
necessary setup actions at the same time as the dynamic DNS setup is
done.

it wouldn't cost a lot to run - the price of a nice big machine (say
$5000), plus rack-space in a co-lo facility (dunno what it costs in the
US - can't be more than what it costs here in Australia which is around
$300/month - $AUD300 = $USD183). i'll over-estimate and say $10,000 for
the first year, and $3600 per year after that.

spread that cost out over 100 initial users, and you have a startup
cost of $100/person and $36/person per year after that for a reliable
mail service. that's well within the financial reach of a small-medium
sized group of peopleand that's even without attempting to get any
sponsorship for the project (maybe one of the linux hardware vendors
would donate a server for a good cause -- and for good publicity, of
course).

the only risk here is that someone - or some incorporated association
- has to take the risk of putting up the money for the server and the
first few months co-lo fees up front.


as a commercial venture, it's even easy to see how it could be
profitable - you've got low startup costs and low yearly co-location
costs. charge $5 or $10 (or perhaps more) per month and you've got
enough income to expand the service as needed (i.e. buy more servers and
more rack-space) AND make a nice little profit, not enough to retire on
but more than enough to pay for itself. provide a good reliable service
and you'll keep your customers for years - most people want to keep
their email address for as long as possible (forever, if they can).

hell, if nobody bothers doing it as a non-profit co-op, i'd be tempted
to run it as a commercial service myself.

the hardest thing would be screening out spammers from abusing the
service - but that may not be such a problem, setting up uucp would
be a barrier to entry for most spammersand you could require new
subscribers to send a PGP signed scan of a photo id card to prove their
identity (just like debian does for new developers).


BTW, by using stunnel and openssl you can ssl encrypt the entire uucp
session, giving you a secure AND reliable mail service. for a (very
brief) mini-howt

Debian Weekly News - March 28th, 2000

[Joey Hess]

-- 
Debian Weekly News 
http://www.debian.org/News/weekly/current/issue/
Debian Weekly News - March 28th, 2000
-- 

Welcome to Debian Weekly News, a newsletter for the Debian developer
community.

[8]Election results: Wichert Akkerman was re-elected Debian project
Leader. Congratulations to Wichert, and thanks to the other candidates
who volunteered for the job.

Debian 2.1r5 has been [9]released. Like the last couple of minor
releases, it consists of security and Y2K updates.

We're now past the second bug horizon. [10]28 packages were not fixed
in time, of those about 12 are too important to really be removed.
Though it is clear that bug horizons do work to reduce the [11]number
of release critical bugs, they're not as effective at motivating
people to fix bugs in very important packages.

Beware Debian's vast corporate might. This [12]article talks about how
ports of major distributions to the PowerPC may affect existing
distributions there: "Linux PPC and Yellow Dog Linux are relatively
new upstart companies when it comes to the Linux world, and they just
do not have the corporate power and user base that both Debian and
SuSE boast. Despite that small gaffe, it does raise some interesting
questions.

Does the policy process need to be reformed? It certainly can have
problems, as in the case of the /usr/share/doc issue last year, when
things are added to policy without enough forethought. Ian Jackson
believes that the policy process needs to be [13]changed back to
something like what it was 2 years ago, with a few people having
absolute control over policy. Others [14]disagree, and think that
while adding a chairman to the process may be a good idea, the process
should remain in the hands of the people on the debian-policy mailing
list. This will be discussed further [15]on IRC on the 29th.

A thread about default colors of programs like mutt, ls, and so on has
raised some interesting issues. Anyone who is not a "bug-eyed alien"
with [16]ultraviolet vision has probably struggled to read dark blue
text on a black background, or bright yellow text on a white
background, before giving up and changing a program's colors to
something more usable. Two things are keeping Debian from changing the
colors by default: First, there's a lot of variation in [17]personal
preferences and setups; some use a black background, and some a white.
It's difficult to come up with default colors that work well on both
backgrounds. Second, large changes from upstream defaults are likely
to annoy just as many people as they please. So while we can fix
extremely bad default color choices, the rest will still have to be up
to the individual user.

A new master archive server is in the works, thanks to an impressive
[18]hardware donation from Sun. The new server will eventually take
over some of the duties of master.debian.org.

The amount of spam to Debian lists, the bug tracking system, and
individual developers has been on the rise lately. What can we do
about it? Jason Gunthorpe looked at the [19]effects of using 4
different RBLs. Most people agree that any additional spam-blocking
should be carefully considered, to make sure we don't also block
legitimate Debian users.

[20]Confirmation: Transmeta's Mobile Linux is based on Debian, as was
rumored earlier.

Every week Debian Weekly News reports on a very few of the more
important and newsworthy happenings in Debian. But don't be fooled by
the apparent slimness of these summaries. A lot is happening beneath
the surface, as [21]this letter points out:

  I was recently auditing some data I had collected from the Debian
  project and came across the following statistic: Code changes are
  submitted to or accepted by the Debian project once every 13
  seconds to 7 minutes (depending on time of day). In other words, in
  the time it takes to dial a 1-800 number, someone may have fixed a
  bug in or added a feature to Debian, sometimes before the first
  ring, and definitely before you finally get off the holding queue
  and talk to a real human being.
  _

References
8. http://www.debian.org/Lists-Archives/debian-devel-announce-0003/msg00016.html
9. http://www.debian.org/Lists-Archives/debian-announce-00/msg4.html
10. 
http://www.debian.org/Lists-Archives/debian-devel-announce-0003/msg00022.html
11. http://bugs.debian.org/~wakkerma/bugs/
12. http://www.macdiscussion.com/article_show.php3?article_id_var=190
13. http://www.debian.org/Lists-Archives/debian-policy-0003/msg00151.html
14. http://www.debian.org/News/weekly/current/issue/mail#1
15. http://www.debian.org/News/weekly/current/issue/mail#2
16. http://www.debian.org/Lists-Archives/debian-devel-0003/msg01096.html
17. http://www.debian.org/Lists-Archives/debian-devel-0003/msg01243.html
18

Re: Release-critical Bugreport for March 24, 2000

[Gregor Hoffleit]

Ok, I'm preparing a NMU for gnucash.

   Gregor
   

On Sat, Mar 25, 2000 at 06:48:39PM +1100, Tyson Dowd wrote:
> On 24-Mar-2000, Gregor Hoffleit <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Fri, Mar 24, 2000 at 03:15:02AM -0600, BugScan reporter wrote:
> > > Package: gnucash (debian/main)
> > > Maintainer: Tyson Dowd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >   60417  docs are split between /usr/doc/gnucash and 
> > > /usr/share/doc/gnucash
> > >   60615  gnucash: LANG=de_DE does weird things
> > >   60655  should depend on libesd0 | libesd-alsa0, not just libesd0
> > 
> > I just noticed that #60615 and 60655 are fixed in woody's gnucash package,
> > gnucash_1.2.5.cvs.2204-1.
> > 
> > #60417 is easy to fix.
> > 
> > If the maintainer doesn't speak up now, I will take
> > gnucash_1.2.5.cvs.2204-1, fix #60417 and upload it to frozen and
> > unstable as NMU.
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I'm the maintainer for gnucash.  An NMU would be great.  
> I've run out of time to work on this stuff at the moment.  I have a
> prospective new developer in the wings who would like to take over this
> package, but it hasn't been time to do this before potato is released.


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Re: RBL report..

[ben]

On Thu, Mar 30, 2000 at 07:58:22AM +1000, Craig Sanders wrote:

> yep. the DUL lists dynamic (dialup) IPs, it doesn't list static IPs.
> that's why it's called the MAPS Dialup User List.
> 
Unfortunately that is not correct. Both NTL's cablemodems and some of BT's ADSL 
modems are listed in the DUL. I'm sure it won't effect many people but Alan Cox 
will probably have problems (after all they are going to be the only options 
for many people in the UK).

Ben Thompson
> craig
> 
> --
> craig sanders
> 
> 
> -- 
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

-- 
It is better to remain silent and be considered a fool, than to speak and
remove all doubt.
-- Mark Twain

Re: RBL report..

[Craig Sanders]

On Wed, Mar 29, 2000 at 04:28:39PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 29, 2000 at 01:15:27PM -0800, Larry Gilbert wrote:
> > Why is murphy.debian.org not adding a "Received:" header to show where
> > messages are originating?  This information is useful when trying to
> > track down actual spammers.  Is this being deliberately omitted or does
> > qmail just normally not include this info?
> 
> Some MTA's -- and I don't know which ones -- apparently choke if there is
> more than n bytes' worth of Received: headers.
> 
> So, as I understand it, these are stripped out by murphy to help make sure
> the list mails get to all the recipients.

they are stripped out by smartlist on murphy. it would be easy enough to
stop it from doing so (and has been requested at least once). whether
that happens or not remains to be seen.

> A person who runs an SMTP listener on their own box could, of course,
> be sure to run a non-broken MTA, but some people don't do that because
> they've been intimidated into using a smarthost, which might run just
> such a broken MTA.

this is complete bullshit. sending and receiving mail is entirely
unrelated - or, more precisely, the relationship between the host(s) you
use to relay your outbound mail and the host(s) you use to pick up your
incoming mail from is completely and utterly arbitrary.

the reason why most dialup users receive mail at a remote mail server
(e.g. their ISP or a hotmail/yahoo/whatever account) is because they
a) don't have a domain or an MX record, b) get one or more free email
addresses along with their dialup account, c) don't bother setting up
uucp (which is the only reliable way of receiving mail for a domain on a
dialup address - SMTP delivery to dynamic IP addresses just doesn't work
reliably, and can not work reliably even if the end-user does make use
of one of the dynamic dns services)


> The anti-spam bigots enjoy seeing catch-22's like this.

the anti-DUL bigots love spreading disinformation and bullshit like this
to backup their shaky claims.

craig

--
craig sanders

Re: first draft "aptitude howto"

[Miquel van Smoorenburg]

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Bernd Eckenfels  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>With those two keys you usually will type 'u' and then 'f' in aptitude to
>reset it to its default working mode. In that mode you have a list of:
>
>If you have a packe selected, you will get information about it in the
>status line. The 'i' key will show the information/description of the
>package, the  key a more complete information about the debian
>package system values for this package. To leave the information screens,
>you can use the 'q' key. Within the main tree, the 'q' key will quit the
>program.

.. etc

I see you need to know a lot of keys. I think that is non-intuitive;
a full screen interface should have pulldown menus (perhaps with
shortcuts), a command line interface has switches.

I really hope someone comes up with a simple selfexplanatory
intuitive menu-based full-screen interface - it's the #1 thing
keeping people away from debian.

Mike.
-- 
Windows never had any potential for soundness or beauty. If you decide to
build a motorcycle, and you start with a bathtub, no good will ever come of it. 
-- Anonymous Coward

Re: RBL report..

[Craig Sanders]

On Wed, Mar 29, 2000 at 01:21:52PM -0800, Lawrence Walton wrote:
> Nils: you still need a DNS named, 

nope, DUL doesn't care whether you have a DNS entry and a matching
reverse lookup.

> static, 

yep. the DUL lists dynamic (dialup) IPs, it doesn't list static IPs.
that's why it's called the MAPS Dialup User List.

> route-able IP to be your own host.

DUL doesn't care if you are routeable or not (but it's a basic requirement
for communicating on the net, anyway) 


like most of the people arguing against the DUL, you are either wrong in
your facts or deliberately spreading misinformation.

craig

--
craig sanders

Re: RBL report..

[Larry Gilbert]

On Wed, 29 Mar 2000, Branden Robinson wrote:

> Some MTA's -- and I don't know which ones -- apparently choke if there is
> more than n bytes' worth of Received: headers.
> 
> So, as I understand it, these are stripped out by murphy to help make sure
> the list mails get to all the recipients.

Maybe murphy could somehow be made to insert the information into a
different header, then?  It would be nice to be able to report spam
problems to appropriate parties, but an easily-forged e-mail address
isn't enough evidence to go on.

Does anyone know which mail servers were choking on too many "Received:"
lines, and whether that is still a problem?

--
Larry Gilbert
Seattle, WA, USA
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: RBL report..

[Jason Gunthorpe]

On Wed, 29 Mar 2000, Larry Gilbert wrote:

> Why is murphy.debian.org not adding a "Received:" header to show where
> messages are originating?  This information is useful when trying to
> track down actual spammers.  Is this being deliberately omitted or does
> qmail just normally not include this info?

This is deliberately removed, we had some problems a year or so ago with
the received lines getting too long for some mailers. We are looking at
putting them back.

Jason

Re: RBL report..

[Branden Robinson]

On Wed, Mar 29, 2000 at 01:15:27PM -0800, Larry Gilbert wrote:
> Rather than contribute to the flame war, I would like to ask a question.
> Apologies if this is a total rookie question.
> 
> Why is murphy.debian.org not adding a "Received:" header to show where
> messages are originating?  This information is useful when trying to
> track down actual spammers.  Is this being deliberately omitted or does
> qmail just normally not include this info?

Some MTA's -- and I don't know which ones -- apparently choke if there is
more than n bytes' worth of Received: headers.

So, as I understand it, these are stripped out by murphy to help make sure
the list mails get to all the recipients.

A person who runs an SMTP listener on their own box could, of course, be
sure to run a non-broken MTA, but some people don't do that because they've
been intimidated into using a smarthost, which might run just such a broken
MTA.  The anti-spam bigots enjoy seeing catch-22's like this.  DoS attacks
in the name spam prevention is their favorite sport.  After all, no REAL
people (read: people with single-user machines and nailed-up IP's) get
hurt by such tactics.

-- 
G. Branden Robinson|I must despise the world which does not
Debian GNU/Linux   |know that music is a higher revelation
[EMAIL PROTECTED] |than all wisdom and philosophy.
roger.ecn.purdue.edu/~branden/ |-- Ludwig van Beethoven


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Re: What's changed in su/bash? "bash: fork: Resource temporarily unavailable"

[Jacob Kuntz]

is somebody running main(for(;;){fork();})? :)

Oliver Elphick (olly@lfix.co.uk) wrote:
> If I su, I then get the message "bash: fork: Resource temporarily unavailable"
> on almost every command I try.
> 
> I found that `exec sh' let me do things.  So it seems that something has
> changed in the set-up of bash or su
> -- 
> Oliver Elphick[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Isle of Wight  http://www.lfix.co.uk/oliver
>PGP key from public servers; key ID 32B8FAA1
>  
>  "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on 
>   your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge  
>   him, and he will direct your paths."  Proverbs 3:5,6  
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 

-- 
(jacob kuntz)[EMAIL PROTECTED],underworld}.net [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]
(megabite systems) "think free speech, not free beer." (gnu foundataion)

no freeramdisk? -> util-linux

[Eric Delaunay]

Hello,

  I'm attempting to write support for scsidev at boot time in conjonction with
a fork of hwtools to create a new scsitools package that will provide only the
scsi stuff of hwtools and compile on non-i386 Debian architectures.
However, my scripts will eventually make use of freeramdisk which is not
available on all architectures.  In fact, it is currently only provided by
loadlin on i386 :((  (see wishlist bug #49878).

I don't think it's worth creating a stand alone package for freeramdisk (which
is 3k) so the best package I found to move to is util-linux.

Do you agree with this proposal?  It should go under /bin or /sbin (/sbin
preferably) because I need it early at boot time, before any partition (like
/usr) is mounted.

I will file a bug against loadlin & util-linux if I get a consensus on it.

Thanks in advance.
 
-- 
 Eric Delaunay | S'il n'y a pas de solution, c'est qu'il n'y
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | a pas de problème.   Devise Shadok.

Re: RBL report..

[Branden Robinson]

On Wed, Mar 29, 2000 at 11:06:19PM +0200, Nils Jeppe wrote:
> Hey, please leave me out of that ;-) But would you please provide me with
> a link for DUL so I can finally check out what it's all about?

Leave you out of what?  I mailed the list, not you personally.

> But the points about ORBS are still valid, no matter what DUL is.

I wasn't talking about ORBS, I was talking about DUL.

I haven't visited the DUL site in quite some time, but IIRC it is
.

-- 
G. Branden Robinson|The errors of great men are venerable
Debian GNU/Linux   |because they are more fruitful than the
[EMAIL PROTECTED] |truths of little men.
roger.ecn.purdue.edu/~branden/ |-- Friedrich Nietzsche


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Re: RBL report..

[Alexander Koch]

On Wed, 29 March 2000 12:42:14 -0600, Steve Greenland wrote:
> Joseph's arguments, while occasionally strident, are not foolish. I
> find it interesting that his opponents devolve into name calling and
> obscenity.

You can read? Sure, you can.

I tried to explain some point to him on irc but I failed, no
talk seemed possible. Every word is one word too much, there
is no point in ppl saying "do this and I will leave as will
many others" and that was what was making me angry.

Have your way, I do not care anymore, let us keep it as it
is, no sweat. Damn, I am so lucky not living in the States,
we do not have such problems over here in stoneage Europe. ;->
Really, I have underestimated your strong-mindedness, I can
think and you have more than one point. But it has to do
with the continents, methinks.

EOT, now.

Thanks,
Alexander

-- 
Alexander Koch - <>< - WWJD - aka Efraim - PGP 0xE7694969 - ARGH-RIPE

Re: RBL report..

[Lawrence Walton]

On Wed, Mar 29, 2000 at 11:06:19PM +0200, Nils Jeppe wrote:
> 
> Branden,
> 
> Hey, please leave me out of that ;-) But would you please provide me with
> a link for DUL so I can finally check out what it's all about?
> 
> But the points about ORBS are still valid, no matter what DUL is. Being
> listed in orbs IS something you can change: Fix your server! And if you're
> dialup, you can change isp's as last result; if you're not dialup but dsl,
> leased line, or whatnot, you can just stop using any smarthost and thus be
> responsible for your own server and relaying (or lack thereof), since orbs
> lists individual ip's only.
> 
> 
> 
> Nils
> 
> 
> -- 
>  "Kif, if there's one thing I don't need it's your 'I don't think that's
>   wise' attitude."
>   --- Zap Brannigan
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 

Nils: you still need a DNS named, static, route-able IP to be your own host.

Branden: You might consider getting a static.
-- 
*--* Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
*--* Voice: 425.739.4247
*--* Fax: 425.827.9577
*--* HTTP://www.otak-k.com/~lawrence/
--
- - - - - - O t a k  i n c . - - - - - 

Re: RFP: bidwatcher

[Larry Gilbert]

Hi Bdale,

Since I'm the one maintaining the SourceForge version, maybe you and I
should talk. :-)

--
Larry Gilbert
Seattle, WA, USA
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


On Sun, 26 Mar 2000, Bdale Garbee wrote:

> The original author has abdicated, and a fork has occurred.  I'm currently
> using the version from Wayne Schlitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, which can be
> found at http://www.midwestcs.com/bidwatcher/.  There is another version
> at SourceForge, and the good news is the two folks didn't know they were
> working in parallel, and have now agreed to work towards a merge using the
> SourceForge site in the future.  The code is GPL'ed, and does not include
> the extra wording needed for GPL'ed code linking with QT.  That needs to be
> resolved before an upload.
> 
> Any takers?  

What's changed in su/bash? "bash: fork: Resource temporarily unavailable"

[Oliver Elphick]

If I su, I then get the message "bash: fork: Resource temporarily unavailable"
on almost every command I try.

I found that `exec sh' let me do things.  So it seems that something has
changed in the set-up of bash or su
-- 
Oliver Elphick[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Isle of Wight  http://www.lfix.co.uk/oliver
   PGP key from public servers; key ID 32B8FAA1
 
 "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on 
  your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge  
  him, and he will direct your paths."  Proverbs 3:5,6  

Re: RBL report..

[Larry Gilbert]

Rather than contribute to the flame war, I would like to ask a question.
Apologies if this is a total rookie question.

Why is murphy.debian.org not adding a "Received:" header to show where
messages are originating?  This information is useful when trying to
track down actual spammers.  Is this being deliberately omitted or does
qmail just normally not include this info?

--
Larry Gilbert
Seattle, WA, USA
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: RBL report..

[Nils Jeppe]

Branden,

Hey, please leave me out of that ;-) But would you please provide me with
a link for DUL so I can finally check out what it's all about?

But the points about ORBS are still valid, no matter what DUL is. Being
listed in orbs IS something you can change: Fix your server! And if you're
dialup, you can change isp's as last result; if you're not dialup but dsl,
leased line, or whatnot, you can just stop using any smarthost and thus be
responsible for your own server and relaying (or lack thereof), since orbs
lists individual ip's only.



Nils


-- 
 "Kif, if there's one thing I don't need it's your 'I don't think that's
  wise' attitude."
--- Zap Brannigan

Bug#49962: Old and new man pages - clean solution possible.

[Andreas Krüger]

Closing Bug 49962, Raphael Hertzog <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Everything has been said, and there's no clean
> solution. It would be a crude hack to make (all or most of
> the) packages conflict with an old man-db simply because
> the man page moved.

That'd be a crude hack indeed.  But aren't there any smarter
ways to go about this?


Here is an attempt at a clean solution:

Provide a new package "port-man-db".  This package is very
small, mainly consisting of one single shell - script
/usr/sbin/port-man-db .

This script checks wether man-db is installed on the system
at all.  If it isn't, the script does nothing.  If the
script finds the old man-db, the neccessary tweaking is done
to get it to accept new pages.  When the script runs a
second time on an old man-db system, it finds its own
tweaking in place and does nothing more.  If the script
finds the new man-db, nothing is done, either.

All new packages simply require this small "port-man-db"
package as a dependency.  As part of the installation
procedure, they call the script.


That's all there is to it.  I propose it's a clean and easy
solution.  Much cleaner as the present solution, at any
rate.


[The only case I can think of this would not solve:

A new package is installed on a system without previous
man-db installation.  Some time later, the old man-db is
installed.  This would leave the new manual pages
unreadable, but only until the next new package is
installed.]



> The Debian dependencies are used to ensure that a program
> will work, Debian is about software after all.

In my opinion, "man" is software, too.  Also, a program
that's not documented does not "work".


> For a complete consistency of your system (including
> documentation), you should use a precise distribution and
> not part of slink with part of potato.

I buy a set of CDs when a new official Debian release comes
out, and upgrade my entire system at that time.  From then
on, as time passes, I do not want to have to stick with the
old stuff.  Of certain software, I like to have the bleeding
edge version.  (And I am willing to be a beta tester and
submit bug reports dilligently.)  In short: Debian gets one
more beta tester, I get a nice up-to-date system, everybody
is happy.

On the other hand, I'm connected to the internet only
through a fairly slow line, so I don't want to make my ISP
happy by regularily upgrading the *entire* thing (they
charge by the minute).  Getting "a precise distribution" is
not an option for me, most of the time.

The Debian dependency system, by it's very existence, claims
what I do can be done.  The manual page problem does not, in
fact, break that claim.  Not even if you do consider manual
pages important (as, incidently, I do).


Coming back to your statement

> Debian is about software after all.

Debian is, again in my opinion, not about software.  We only
needed a big ftp server, if all we cared about were software.

Debian is about a lot of different software playing together
in a meaningful manner.  Debian is about integration.  To
"Debianize" a piece of software is to integrate it into the
Debian whole.


I took the liberty sending a reopen to
[EMAIL PROTECTED], with a command to reassign the
severity to "wishlist" (as this would be difficult to
implement).  Please, don't be offended.  It's your decision
wether you want to follow up on this or close it again - I
promise I won't reopen it a second time.  (But, again I say:
please, don't tell me it cannot possibly be done.)



With respect and gratitude for the good work Debian
maintainers do,

Andreas

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: RBL report..

[Branden Robinson]

On Wed, Mar 29, 2000 at 12:42:14PM -0600, Steve Greenland wrote:
> A. swbell has frequent problems with their mail-servers, both inbound
> (POP) and outbound (SMTP). I don't know (or care) what OS they run.
> 
> B. When I got my DSL line, swbell was the *only* ISP possibile in
> houston.

That's part of what is (very) darkly humorous about the blacklisting
bigots -- they don't have much of a grasp of realities in the telecom
marketplace at the consumer level.

For instance, when regulations preventing phone companies from providing
both local and long distance service in the same LATA were lifted, part of
the agreement said that those same phone companies had to permit
competition on the local loops if they wanted to peddle long distance to
their local customers.

Needless to say, a great many phone companies can now sell you both local
and long distance service, but local phone service competition is still
almost unheard of.  (Just one example: BellSouth here in Louisville has
been successfully stonewalling competing DSL providers on their wires for
at least a year, and are lobbying the state legislature for exemption from
a bill that would compel public utility companies in general to permit
competition.)

The cable companies are similarly trying to maintain monopolies over their
wires.

The result of this is that there is actually very little competition among
ISP's in any given geographic locality in the United States *except* in the
dialup market.

So when the bigots tell you to exercise your "rights" as a consumer and
change ISP's, they're either ignorant of this reality, or winking at each
other from behind their nailed-up IP's, knowing you'll either be paying a
lot for shitty service, and the privilege of getting off the DUL blacklist
(but you'd better pray they haven't blacklisted your ISP!).

They're like little kids who torture small animals -- as long as they're
not getting hurt themselves, it's just good clean fun to fuck with the
pathetic little creatures.

> C. Even though it's now possible to get other ISPs, it would roughly
> double my current ISP bill.

The blacklisters consider price no object, when it's someone else's money.

> D. DUL is discrimination, pure and simple. If Debian chooses to add a
> warning header based on it (so that those who choose to can filter),
> that's fine. If Debian starts to reject list mail based on DUL, I'd
> strongly consider leaving the project.

Agreed.

> Joseph's arguments, while occasionally strident, are not foolish. I
> find it interesting that his opponents devolve into name calling and
> obscenity.

Well, he could comport himself in such a way as to make his critics look
worse -- and he does have a history of being on the wrong side of some
issues :) -- but he's not in the wrong this time.

I have noticed that after screeching for statistics that would "prove" that
usage of DUL on murphy would all but eliminate spam on the Debian mailing
lists, none of those screechers has bothered to actually reply to the
following fact that Jason offered:

> DUL would seem to effect at most maybe 10 people, but it hasn't actually
> been shown to stop any spam - so this needs more investigation.

No blacklister has offered suggestions for followup on this issue -- they
simply continue to reiterate their faith in the righteousness and universal
applicability of the DUL blacklist (and wander off on tangents about ORBS).
They remind me of Creationists, who will marshal "facts" in defense of
their position, but when those "facts" are discredited, will simply
fallback on repeated blunt assertions of their conclusion, not caring that
their premises have been obliterated.

-- 
G. Branden Robinson|When I die I want to go peacefully in
Debian GNU/Linux   |my sleep like my ol' Grand Dad...not
[EMAIL PROTECTED] |screaming in terror like his passengers.
roger.ecn.purdue.edu/~branden/ |


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Processed: Old and new man - clean solution possible.

[Debian Bug Tracking System]

Processing commands for [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

> reopen 49962 =
Bug#49962: Debian FSS-upgrade process: man pages
Bug reopened, originator not changed.

> severity 49962 wishlist
Bug#49962: Debian FSS-upgrade process: man pages
Severity set to `wishlist'.

>
End of message, stopping processing here.

Please contact me if you need assistance.

Darren Benham
(administrator, Debian Bugs database)

Ian Jackson, please get me the hell off your blacklist.

[Branden Robinson]

Mar 29 15:20:15 apocalypse sendmail[7886]: e2T8qEi03048: [EMAIL PROTECTED], 
ctladdr=branden (1000/1000), delay=11:28:01, xdelay=00:00:21, mailer=esmtp, 
pri=6332789, relay=chiark.greenend.org.uk. [195.224.76.132], dsn=4.2.0, 
stat=Deferred: 450 Site not yet trusted, try later [Irritated]

Maybe you'd care to explain to me what's not trusted about my site?

Irritated?  *YOU'RE* irritated?

If you don't correct this at once I will be forced to re-evaluate my place
within a project that is nominally devoted to free and open communication among
its members and the rest of the world.

Since I cannot communicate with bug report filers from chiark.greenend.org.uk,
all bug reports submitted, past, present, or future,  by people from that host
will be summarily closed.

-- 
G. Branden Robinson| Communism is just one step on the long
Debian GNU/Linux   | road from capitalism to capitalism.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | -- Russian saying
roger.ecn.purdue.edu/~branden/ |


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Re: how about a real unstable?

[Juergen A. Erhard]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

> "Andrew" == Andrew Lenharth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

[...]

Andrew> It is the unstable branch, lets take advantage of it and make it 
unstable 
Andrew> to start out with.  The sooner we can find problems and fix them, 
the
Andrew> shorter our release cycles will be, and the more upto-date our main
Andrew> packages will be.

Two reasons why this is generally not a good idea:

  + I'd guess for many developers their working machine is also their
development machine.  So, if they can't run unstable (because it
is) on their working machine, they can't run unstable, period.

Which would likely cause them to have to quit...

  + What if the release candidate of, say, perl 5.6 is *still* a
release candidate when *we* want to release?  Because we'd have
adapted the whole system to perl 5.6... we couldn't release until
5.6'd be stable.

This would cause us to be tied to the release schedules of
external projects.  Which'd be a bad thing.

On the other hand, Debian's already working like that *in some
areas*... like, for a long time the `zsh' package was the unstable
development version; it still is, but there's a zsh30 package which
contains the stable release.

What I mean is: we can *start* integration of unstable packages
early... but we cannot tie the system to these unstable releases, we
still have to build on the stable releases.

All this depends on the respective maintainers ability (mostly in
terms of time available) and willingness to do the work, that's about
all there is to it...

Bye, J

- -- 
Jürgen A. Erhard  eMail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  phone: (GERMANY) 0721 27326
  My WebHome: http://members.tripod.com/Juergen_Erhard
  George Herrimann's Krazy Kat (http://www.krazy.com)
  "Windows NT" is an acronym for "Windows? No thanks." -- Russ McManus
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aide and packaging problems

[Mike Markley]

OK. Michael Vogt and I spoke and he's fine with me maintaining the aide
package (I'm still waiting on new-maintainer, but it looks like it'll fully
reopen long before the cutoff for uploading packages to woody ;).
I do have one strange problem I'd like to ask about. I include in my
package a script called "aideinit" which just generates a new database and
asks you if you want to move the new db over the old one. Nothing major.
It's worked like a charm since I packaged this several weeks ago.
Yesterday (just before reading Joey's question about packaging this program,
oddly enough) I decided it was time to put debconf support in since I
finally had a personal potato box at my disposal. Now, however, a strange
thing happens. My aideinit script asks two questions (just an echo -n and
read) - whether or not you want to overwrite the current aide.db.new, and
whether or not you want to replace the aide.db with the aide.db.new.
Obviously it only asks the first question if it's necessary. During a
standalone run of the aideinit script all is well, but when it's run from
within postinst, the second question hangs. Throwing a set -x into all these
scripts shows that it's being successfully run, but when it does the "read"
it just doesn't seem to be taking my input. It never returns to the postinst
script, I have to break out of it, do a dpkg --pending --configure and tell
debconf *not* to run aideinit, and then run it manually (outside of
postinst). Here's the fragment from postinst that runs it:

db_get aide/aideinit
[ "$RET" = "true" ] && /usr/sbin/aideinit

Nothing insane. Also, here's the aideinit fragment that's having the
problem:
cat << EOF;

You will need to copy the file /usr/lib/aide/aide.db.new to
/usr/lib/aide/aide.db before aide uses it. It is advisable for you
to first look over the new db. Say y to the following question to
ignore this sage advice.

EOF
echo -n "Copy aide.db.new to aide.db [y/N]? "
unset yn
read yn
[ -n "$yn" ] || yn="n"
while true; do
case "$yn" in
   [yY]*)
cp -f /usr/lib/aide/aide.db.new /usr/lib/aide/aide.db
break
;;
   [nN]*)
exit 0
;;
esac
done

After sticking in a "echo" after the "while true; do" I've determined also
that it's not the loop - although my set -x output shows it's not reaching
the loop anyway:
You will need to copy the file /usr/lib/aide/aide.db.new to
/usr/lib/aide/aide.db before aide uses it. It is advisable for you
to first look over the new db. Say y to the following question to
ignore this sage advice.

+ echo -n 'Copy aide.db.new to aide.db [y/N]? '
Copy aide.db.new to aide.db [y/N]? + read yn
y
n

But again, it works just fine when *not* being run from postinst. This is a
potato system up-to-date as of about half an hour ago. Any ideas?

-- 
Mike Markley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
PGP: 0xA9592D4D 62 A7 11 E2 23 AD 4F 57  27 05 1A 76 56 92 D5 F6
GPG: 0x3B047084 7FC7 0DC0 EF31 DF83 7313  FE2B 77A8 F36A 3B04 7084

One of the advantages of being a captain is being able to ask for
advice without necessarily having to take it.
- Kirk, "Dagger of the Mind", stardate 2715.2

Re: first draft "aptitude howto"

[Steve Greenland]

On 29-Mar-00, 09:00 (CST), Robert Bihlmeyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
> (I'm also a first-time aptitude user)
> 
> Branden Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > (Remark: I think I would find the overloading of the '-' key confusing.
> > Please consider using a different key for hold operations.  'h' seems
> > intuitive but might be pressed by novices as an attempt to get help.  '!'
> > seems like another possible candidate for hold, a la "Stop!"  "Wait!"
> > "Achtung!" :) )
> 
> After think about it like this, it was quite natural for me:
> + accelerates, goes forward. Packages that are standing still (held or
>   simply not installed) will get in motion and move forward, if
>   possible
> - brakes, goes back. Packages that would otherwise tend to get
>   upgraded, will be held back by this; packages that are not in
>   motion (already held, or up-to-date) will go backwards by being
>   removed.

I find this confusing. It seems to imply that I have to hit + twice to
install a package and - twice to remove it. Very weird. What's wrong
with '=' ("keep the same")?

-- 
Steve Greenland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
(Please do not CC me on mail sent to this list; I subscribe to and read
every list I post to.)

Re: RBL report..

[Steve Greenland]

On 29-Mar-00, 07:16 (CST), Alexander Koch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
> On Wed, 29 March 2000 01:57:45 -0800, Joseph Carter wrote:
> > I'm not the only person here who thinks so.  Make Debian use all the
> > blacklists you want.  You'll find users and developers dropping like
> > flies.
> 
> If everything else fails, this is the best argument to bring
> up, really. Tell me why I should listen to you. It's the way
> of argueing and (probably) not shouting and what not.
> 
> You are making a fool of yourself for bringing up this
> argument, but that is just me.

A. swbell has frequent problems with their mail-servers, both inbound
(POP) and outbound (SMTP). I don't know (or care) what OS they run.

B. When I got my DSL line, swbell was the *only* ISP possibile in
houston.

C. Even though it's now possible to get other ISPs, it would roughly
double my current ISP bill.

D. DUL is discrimination, pure and simple. If Debian chooses to add a
warning header based on it (so that those who choose to can filter),
that's fine. If Debian starts to reject list mail based on DUL, I'd
strongly consider leaving the project.

Joseph's arguments, while occasionally strident, are not foolish. I
find it interesting that his opponents devolve into name calling and
obscenity.

Steve

-- 
Steve Greenland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
(Please do not CC me on mail sent to this list; I subscribe to and read
every list I post to.)

Re: Permissions/ownerships of /cdrom and /floppy

[Bruce Perens]

Permissions on mount points don't seem to make much difference. I was able to
mount a filesystem on a mount point with mode 0, and once mounted the
permissions come from the mounted filesystem, not the mount point.

Thanks

Bruce

Re: Is someone working on Jazz++ ?

[Will Lowe]

> > I tried, but it would not build and failed in several places.
> 
> Ditto.
> 

Yup.  I have actually resolved most of these issues (not all), and I've
been thinking about setting up a package.  I actually started working on a
package of the (still-alpha-quality) Gseq sequencer, but it needs some
work on the midi-handling code, so I've put it off until I have time to
rewrite that stuff.

> I'll take a look to see if I can get it working with current wxWindows
> (the ones that Ron's been packaging up lately) but I'm not entirely
> hopeful.

I'm almost positive it won't compile against anything in the 2.X wxWindows
set.  The API changes significantly, IIRC.  It _should_ build against
wxxt, which is the Xt-based wxWindows 1.X package in potato/woody, but who
wants to use _anything_ that looks like Xt apps do?  The other issue is
that the code, as released, doesn't work with ALSA 0.5.X. There are
patches available, but I haven't had time to look at them yet.

I'm in the middle of moving from the East Coast to the West due to a job
change, so time is short at the moment.  Hopefully, I'll get a chance to
look at both of these in about two weeks when I need to be done packing. 

Will

--
|   [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]  |
|   http://www.cis.udel.edu/~lowe/   |
|PGP Public Key:  http://www.cis.udel.edu/~lowe/index.html#pgpkey|
--

Re: how about a real unstable?

[John Haggerty]

I second this. I can't tell you how many times I have had to get the
source to something try to get it to compile and bang my head on the
computer for 10 hours trying to get it to work. Having say the newest
version of blackbox would be nice as well as some of the newer kernels,
the newest Xemacs and other aditions.

Plus integrating the e2compr kernel patch into the standard kernels
provided with debian would also be a plus.

On Tue, 28 Mar 2000, Andrew Lenharth wrote:

> I know others have expressed this, but a big reason we wind up with slower
> release cycles is we have a stable unstable.  i.e. unstable is rather
> stable.  Most of the other distributions start with the software that will
> be released by the time they release and start working with it early.
> 
> What I really mean: unstable should (as soon as work on potato is
> finished), have the new perl, xfree, apache, kernel, etc.  Even if they
> are still release canidates.  the sooner we have everything working with
> the new packages, the sooner we can release.  For example, to wait till
> perl 5.6 is out to try to integrate it could take longer that to start the
> integration process with a perl release canidate.
> 
> It is the unstable branch, lets take advantage of it and make it unstable 
> to start out with.  The sooner we can find problems and fix them, the
> shorter our release cycles will be, and the more upto-date our main
> packages will be.
> 
> Andrew Lenharth
> 
> Remember, never ask a geek "why";
>just nod your head and back away slowly... 
> 
> --
> 
> Given infinite time, 100 monkeys could type out the complete works of
> Shakespeare.
> Win 98 source code? Eight monkeys, five minutes.
> 
> --
> 
> 
> -- 
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 

Re: RBL report..

[jpb]

Hamish Moffatt wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Mar 28, 2000 at 11:33:41PM -0800, Joseph Carter wrote:
> > often than not knows better.  (Let pacbell.net's shoody NT mail server
> > route MY mail?  NOT LIKELY!)
> 
> Have you ever had mail actually disappear through their server, or do
> you just distrust it because it's running on NT? Seriously?
> Hell, Joseph, have you ever stopped to read one of your own posts to
> see what you really sound like?
> 
> > So there's at least a margin of error.  And don't you EVEN TRY to tell me
> > that if I don't like my ISP that I should get another.  There are an awful
> > lot of people out there who simply CAN'T DO THAT.  Expecting them to is
> > even more of an example of just how wrong the DUL is from its beginning.
> 
> What is the exact reason why you cannot get another ISP Joseph?
> Have you been blacklisted by all the others in your area already?

In a lot of areas, if you want DSL or cablemodem you're stuck with only
one (usually pretty clueless) ISP to choose.  And fyi before I started
using uucp over tcp, I used to lose mail going through bellsouth's
server.  I'd mail home a series of tarballs and get only some of the
parts.

Now that I switched to Time-Warner and a cablemodem, I still have to
route my outgoing mail via uucp to my machine at work because the
dynamic ips I get on my cablemodem are spamblocked by the servers at my
brother's university.

jpb
-- 
Joe Block <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
CREOL System Administrator

Social graces are the packet headers of everyday life.

Re: RBL report..

[Joseph Carter]

On Wed, Mar 29, 2000 at 01:16:11PM +, Alexander Koch wrote:
> btw - if you really need to find a smarthost that is working
> well I doubt you have to search for a long time. Mail is not
> just mail and I can imagine many "specials" for those like you
> that need a decent smarthost. It is just the right configuration 
> on a random MTA, all can do it. There are possibilities, after
> all.

I have NO INTENTION of using a smarthost.  I have a static IP with a
verifyable hostname.  I WILL NOT route my mail.  I flatly refuse to do so
unless and until such time as you can provide me with an RFC number which
deprecates running a mail server on a static IP address with an
identifyable host name.


I will not reply to the rest of the flamebait in the original message.

-- 
Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3
Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC
The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/)   44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3

<_Anarchy_> acf: maybe April 1 next year slashdot needs to run "Rob Malda
accepts new job as head of Debian project" 8)

Permissions/ownerships of /cdrom and /floppy

[Santiago Vila]

Hi.

The following bug (#25847) is currently assigned to base-files:

> The mountpoints /cdrom and /floppy are set to g+wxs. However, I think that
> the g+w flag is of no use here, as when a fstab entry with 'user' option
> enabled is mounted, the access flags are changed and the mount point is
> owned by respective user since then anyway. So the g+w just allows users in
> the cdrom and floppy groups to store files on your root partition (when
> /cdrom resp. /floppy is not mounted), which I don't consider useful.
> 
> I doubt that the g+s is of any use as well, and so is the setting of the
> gids of these mountpoints to group cdrom resp. floppy.

I think the submitter is right, and will therefore make /floppy and /cdrom
to be mode 755 and root.root. However, I'm not a guru on mount options.
If there is anybody who find the current permissions useful then please
speak now, before I change them.

[ I'm Cc:ing the former base-files maintainer ].

Thanks.

-- 
 "dbc49d6f9bc68e1a56b1c0f6ba9dcd11" (a truly random sig)

Test

[Maurizio Boriani]

Excuse this mail , it is only a test
- 
Maurizio Boriani
General Services (Systemist)
20138 Milano - Via Mecenate 76/3 - Italy
Tel. 02/509081 - Fax 02/50908080 - E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: xterm and gnome-terminal have diferent defaults? [was: Bug#60753: mutt: /etc/Muttrc should not use colors]

[Christian Marillat]

 "FB" == Franklin Belew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

[...]

FB> This is actually a bug in libzvt2, I have submitted a patch to libzvt2 to 
FB> comply with debian xterm specs. Hopefully the maintainer will apply this 
FB> and upload to potato soon

I've make a more friendly patch for libzvt2.

Soon in potato.

Christian

Re: first draft "aptitude howto"

[Robert Bihlmeyer]

(I'm also a first-time aptitude user)

Branden Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> (Remark: I think I would find the overloading of the '-' key confusing.
> Please consider using a different key for hold operations.  'h' seems
> intuitive but might be pressed by novices as an attempt to get help.  '!'
> seems like another possible candidate for hold, a la "Stop!"  "Wait!"
> "Achtung!" :) )

After think about it like this, it was quite natural for me:
+ accelerates, goes forward. Packages that are standing still (held or
  simply not installed) will get in motion and move forward, if
  possible
- brakes, goes back. Packages that would otherwise tend to get
  upgraded, will be held back by this; packages that are not in
  motion (already held, or up-to-date) will go backwards by being
  removed.

I think I read something to that effect in the aptitude docs. Perhaps
it would help putting a similar explanation into the howto.

> (As a die hard vi user, I suggest making 'j' and 'k' also perform
> navigation operations as well.  :) )

That wouldn't hurt, yes. Although commanding the thing with just your
keypad, would be cool, too (/ = quit, * = go, anyone?) .

[Agreeing to Brandon's other remarks]

> I don't know what "turkis" means; I guess I'll have to try aptitude out to
> learn.  :)

Or try `translate' and guessing :

$ translate türkis
türkis :: turquoise

Robbe

-- 
Robbe

Re: MiniVend Debian package

[Stefan Hornburg]

Robert Ramiega <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Wed, Mar 29, 2000 at 01:51:35PM +0200, Stefan Hornburg wrote:
> > Normally linuxia.de is well connected, but I uploaded both archives
> > to ftp://www.ecoservice.de/debian/. This at least geographically
> > closer to Poland (I assume you come from this country).
>  Could You please put source packages somewhere also? (www.ecoservice.de
> would be great as i'm from Poland too) I'm using PowerPC and would like to
> try MiniVend

I upload the complete stuff to both sites now.
Please note that 4.03-2 is the current version.

Ciao
Racke

-- 
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Unser Fokus liegt auf Open-Source-Software (MiniVend, Debian GNU/Linux, etc.)

Re: Encryption Builds

[Ben Collins]

On Wed, Mar 29, 2000 at 04:46:29AM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 28, 2000 at 02:28:49PM -0800, Brent Fulgham wrote:
> > Can anyone refresh my memory as to the legality of encryption-enabled builds
> > of software inside the U.S.  Did we (like Kernel.org) decide it was okay to
> > host this in U.S.-based servers, or are we still recommending
> > that members of the free world do such builds?
> > 
> > If the answer is to not build inside the U.S., I need a non-US developer
> > to help me build a SSL module for AOLserver.
> 
> A flamewar on -private between myself, Manoj, and Ben Collins led to the
> conclusion that it's not yet safe to distribute crypto in the U.S.  I
> posted another message to -devel a few minutes ago with more information.

I think what he is asking is if it's ok for him to build it and upload it
to non-US. IMO, this is perfectly legitimate, but who knows for sure.
Given that RedHat now includes GnuPG in it's 6.2 distribution, I'm
thinking he can do it.

-- 
 ---===-=-==-=---==-=--
/  Ben Collins  --  ...on that fantastic voyage...  --  Debian GNU/Linux   \
` [EMAIL PROTECTED]  --  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  --  [EMAIL PROTECTED] '
 `---=--===-=-=-=-===-==---=--=---'

Re: RBL report..

[Hamish Moffatt]

On Wed, Mar 29, 2000 at 03:07:59AM -0800, Joseph Carter wrote:
> First: YOUR SPAM IS NOT MY FUCKING PROBLEM.
> 
> Second: Broadband providers are not a commodity.  And they're usually not
> cheap.
> 
> Third: The difference in cost between my DSL service and any other
> broadband service (even with lest bandwidth!) is almost exponentially more
> expensive.  You've not offered to pay the difference.  (Nor do I suspect
> that you could afford it..)

Fuck off. Since you really have no idea whether I can afford the
difference or not, since you don't know me from a bar of soap,
you just prove that you are a dickhead with comments like that.

I am on broadband (cable modem) myself. I know how much it costs here,
and I'm sure it's more than it costs there. 

I don't use my provider's mail server. It's a no brainer to find someone to 
find someone who will relay mail for you. No doubt someone on this list
would volunteer if you bothered to ask. Craig Sanders pointed out a bunch 
of solutions which you've not addressed at all. You're just arguing because 
you like a good whinge, not because you have anything to say. Typical.


Hamish
-- 
Hamish Moffatt VK3SB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: RBL report..

[Hamish Moffatt]

On Wed, Mar 29, 2000 at 01:57:45AM -0800, Joseph Carter wrote:
> I have read them.  (I did write them after all.)

One does not necessarily follow based on the other.


Hamish
-- 
Hamish Moffatt VK3SB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: MiniVend Debian package

[Robert Ramiega]

On Wed, Mar 29, 2000 at 01:51:35PM +0200, Stefan Hornburg wrote:
> Normally linuxia.de is well connected, but I uploaded both archives
> to ftp://www.ecoservice.de/debian/. This at least geographically
> closer to Poland (I assume you come from this country).
 Could You please put source packages somewhere also? (www.ecoservice.de
would be great as i'm from Poland too) I'm using PowerPC and would like to
try MiniVend

-- 
 Robert Ramiega  | [EMAIL PROTECTED]  IRC: _Jedi_ | Don't underestimate 
 UIN: 13201047   | http://www.plukwa.net/ | the power of Source

Re: RBL report..

[Alexander Koch]

On Wed, 29 March 2000 01:57:45 -0800, Joseph Carter wrote:
> I'm not the only person here who thinks so.  Make Debian use all the
> blacklists you want.  You'll find users and developers dropping like
> flies.

If everything else fails, this is the best argument to bring
up, really. Tell me why I should listen to you. It's the way
of argueing and (probably) not shouting and what not.

You are making a fool of yourself for bringing up this
argument, but that is just me.

btw - if you really need to find a smarthost that is working
well I doubt you have to search for a long time. Mail is not
just mail and I can imagine many "specials" for those like you
that need a decent smarthost. It is just the right configuration 
on a random MTA, all can do it. There are possibilities, after
all.

But I will not argue with you like before. pmyp.

Alexander

-- 
Artificial Intelligence stands no chance against Natural Stupidity.
Alexander Koch - <>< - WWJD - aka Efraim - PGP 0xE7694969 - ARGH-RIPE

Re: MiniVend Debian package

[Stefan Hornburg]

Branden Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Wed, Mar 29, 2000 at 12:53:12PM +0200, Stefan Hornburg wrote:
> > Branden Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > 
> > > On Wed, Mar 29, 2000 at 10:11:57AM +0200, Stefan Hornburg wrote:
> > > > OK, now as MV 4.03 is out, there is a Debian package available now
> > > > for testing.
> > > 
> > > Excellent.  I've long been awaiting an upgrade to the mv command.
> > 
> > Oh, don't you know that Linux is case-sensitive ?
> 
> You obviously overlooked the headers in my message... :)

And you my virtual smilie. :-)

Ciao
Racke

-- 
LinuXia Systems, eCommerce and more => http://www.linuxia.de/ or 0511-3941290.
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Unser Fokus liegt auf Open-Source-Software (MiniVend, Debian GNU/Linux, etc.)

Re: Potato - update-alternatives (Ian Jackson) and window managers - doubt (and Slink to Potato Success)

[Wichert Akkerman]

Previously Branden Robinson wrote:
> gnome-session itself does NOT provide window management services.
> The package also doesn't depend on a real window manager.

True.

> I think having it masquerade as a window manager could lead to people not
> having a window manager installed at all.

Hmm, can't really argue with that either.

> If the system administrator wants to modify the default, system-wide X
> session file to call gnome-session, he can.  /etc/X11/Xsession is a
> conffile.

I usually add gnome-session as an alternative for x-window-manager and
that works quite well.

Wichert.

-- 
   
 / Generally uninteresting signature - ignore at your convenience  \
| [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.liacs.nl/~wichert/ |
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Re: Debconf & LDAP (Was: Debconf question)

[Wichert Akkerman]

Previously Turbo Fredriksson wrote:
> I'll have a look at it, and see what I can come up with...

Be warned that I reasonably know what I would like to see there and
there is already code (gconf) which implements it. I really need to
check what the build and runtime-dependencies for gconf are though,
I haven't looked at it in a while :(.

Wichert.

-- 
   
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Re: Entering in the Official Debian's distribution

[Stephane Bortzmeyer]

On Wednesday 29 March 2000, at 13 h 59, the keyboard of 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> How can a programmer have the right of putting his own program on the
> Official Debian's Distribution ?

#ifdef I_WANT_TO_BE_A_DEBIAN_MAINTAINER_MYSELF

Debian lesson #1 

Debian lesson #2 

#else

The inclusion of a package into Debian depends only on one maintainer packaging 
the software and uploading it. There is no central decision or vote to include 
or reject a package. Therefore, you have to find a volunteer (any Debian 
maintainer, they are several hundreds). Asking on debian-devel is a good idea, 
just be sure you include the licence and the address to download your software.

#endif

Re: Entering in the Official Debian's distribution

[Josip Rodin]

On Wed, Mar 29, 2000 at 01:59:19PM +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> How can a programmer have the right of putting his own program on the
> Official Debian's Distribution ?
> 
> I have heard something about the PGP key, but I haven't a clear idea.

Please read the information in Debian Developer's Reference, chapter
`Applying to become a maintainer', at:

http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/developers-reference/ch-new-maintainer.html

-- 
Digital Electronic Being Intended for Assassination and Nullification

Re: how about a real unstable?

[Josip Rodin]

On Wed, Mar 29, 2000 at 12:08:31PM +0200, Petr Cech wrote:
> > grep experimental /etc/apt/sources.list, please?
> 
> deb http://samosa.debian.org/debian/project/experimental/ /

Here's a prettier one, as discussed on IRC :)

deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ project/experimental/

-- 
Digital Electronic Being Intended for Assassination and Nullification

Entering in the Official Debian's distribution

[lorenzo . zampese]

How can a programmer have the right of putting his own program on the
Official Debian's Distribution ?

I have heard something about the PGP key, but I haven't a clear idea.

Please, is there anybody who can explain it to me ?

Thank you.

Re: MiniVend Debian package

[Branden Robinson]

On Wed, Mar 29, 2000 at 12:53:12PM +0200, Stefan Hornburg wrote:
> Branden Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > On Wed, Mar 29, 2000 at 10:11:57AM +0200, Stefan Hornburg wrote:
> > > OK, now as MV 4.03 is out, there is a Debian package available now
> > > for testing.
> > 
> > Excellent.  I've long been awaiting an upgrade to the mv command.
> 
> Oh, don't you know that Linux is case-sensitive ?

You obviously overlooked the headers in my message... :)

-- 
G. Branden Robinson|Murphy's Guide to Science:
Debian GNU/Linux   |If it's green or squirms, it's biology.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] |If it stinks, it's chemistry.
roger.ecn.purdue.edu/~branden/ |If it doesn't work, it's physics.


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Re: MiniVend Debian package

[Stefan Hornburg]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Grendel) writes:

> ** On Mar 29, Stefan Hornburg scribbled:
> > Branden Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > 
> > > On Wed, Mar 29, 2000 at 10:11:57AM +0200, Stefan Hornburg wrote:
> > > > OK, now as MV 4.03 is out, there is a Debian package available now
> > > > for testing.
> > > 
> > > Excellent.  I've long been awaiting an upgrade to the mv command.
> > 
> > Oh, don't you know that Linux is case-sensitive ?
> Not that I like the exchange of your point of view :), but I've got a
> question - is there any other place one can fetch the archive from? Download
> from linuxia.de goes slwly :(( (0.1Kb/s...)

Normally linuxia.de is well connected, but I uploaded both archives
to ftp://www.ecoservice.de/debian/. This at least geographically
closer to Poland (I assume you come from this country).

Ciao
Racke

-- 
LinuXia Systems, eCommerce and more => http://www.linuxia.de/ or 0511-3941290.
Unsere Partner: Cobolt NetServices (http://www.cobolt.net), CAPCON Systemhouse
(http://www.capcon-systemhouse.com), ecoservice gmbh (http://www.ecoservice.de)
Unser Fokus liegt auf Open-Source-Software (MiniVend, Debian GNU/Linux, etc.)

Re: MiniVend Debian package

[Stefan Hornburg]

Michael Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Wed, Mar 29, 2000 at 12:53:12PM +0200, Stefan Hornburg wrote:
> > Branden Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > 
> > > On Wed, Mar 29, 2000 at 10:11:57AM +0200, Stefan Hornburg wrote:
> > > > OK, now as MV 4.03 is out, there is a Debian package available now
> > > > for testing.
> > > 
> > > Excellent.  I've long been awaiting an upgrade to the mv command.
> > 
> > Oh, don't you know that Linux is case-sensitive ?
> 
> Distributing both mv and MV is hideous from a UI standpoint and
> shouldn't even be considered, IMHO. I *can* do a lot of things I
> *shouldn't* do...

To be serious, MV is a common abbreviation for MiniVend. There is
actually no executable "MV".

Ciao
Racke

-- 
LinuXia Systems, eCommerce and more => http://www.linuxia.de/ or 0511-3941290.
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Unser Fokus liegt auf Open-Source-Software (MiniVend, Debian GNU/Linux, etc.)

Re: important vs release critical bugs

[Richard Braakman]

On Wed, Mar 29, 2000 at 09:24:38PM +1000, Brian May wrote:
> That sounds good in theory, but does it work in practise? I don't
> think so.

Last time I checked, we were fixing some 30 bugs per day.  Let's not
look only at the unmaintained packages.

> I have a number of bugs, which I consider important, but not release
> critical, that are at two years old. Some of these bugs should be easy
> to fix, often I never received a single reply.
> 
> I don't have time to chase up the maintainer when he/she does not
> reply to my messages...

If you don't, and nobody else does, and the maintainer apparently has
no time for it... then the bug is not that important, is it?
If it is, make time for it.

Simply putting it on some list of "important bugs" will not magically
change any of that.  Pretty soon that list will contain most of our
bugs database and it will be useless.  200 release-critical bugs are
already too many to deal with.  (We got 21 new ones just today.  
Simply reading all of them takes more than an hour.)

Richard Braakman

Re: ITP: manpages-da

[Paul Slootman]

On Tue 28 Mar 2000, Peter Makholm wrote:
> Paul Slootman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > Wouldn't manpages-dk be the correct name?
> 
> That depends
> 
> The two letter language code is da and the two letter country code is
> DK (making the correct locale: LC_ALL=da_DK)
> 
> There shouldn't be any problem using the manpages in Greenland (ie
> da_GL) but if you're speaking english in Denmark (en_DK) you shouldn't
> use them.
> 
> Making a long story short: I think we should use the language code and
> not the country code. 

You're right, of course. I did indeed confuse the language and country.


Paul Slootman (would be using LANG=en_NL if it existed)
-- 
home:   [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.wurtel.demon.nl/
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debian: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  http://www.debian.org/
isdn4linux: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.isdn4linux.de/

Re: MiniVend Debian package

[Michael Stone]

On Wed, Mar 29, 2000 at 12:53:12PM +0200, Stefan Hornburg wrote:
> Branden Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > On Wed, Mar 29, 2000 at 10:11:57AM +0200, Stefan Hornburg wrote:
> > > OK, now as MV 4.03 is out, there is a Debian package available now
> > > for testing.
> > 
> > Excellent.  I've long been awaiting an upgrade to the mv command.
> 
> Oh, don't you know that Linux is case-sensitive ?

Distributing both mv and MV is hideous from a UI standpoint and
shouldn't even be considered, IMHO. I *can* do a lot of things I
*shouldn't* do...

-- 
Mike Stone


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Re: MiniVend Debian package

[Grendel]

** On Mar 29, Stefan Hornburg scribbled:
> Branden Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > On Wed, Mar 29, 2000 at 10:11:57AM +0200, Stefan Hornburg wrote:
> > > OK, now as MV 4.03 is out, there is a Debian package available now
> > > for testing.
> > 
> > Excellent.  I've long been awaiting an upgrade to the mv command.
> 
> Oh, don't you know that Linux is case-sensitive ?
Not that I like the exchange of your point of view :), but I've got a
question - is there any other place one can fetch the archive from? Download
from linuxia.de goes slwly :(( (0.1Kb/s...)

marek


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Re: MiniVend Debian package

[Stefan Hornburg]

Branden Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Wed, Mar 29, 2000 at 10:11:57AM +0200, Stefan Hornburg wrote:
> > OK, now as MV 4.03 is out, there is a Debian package available now
> > for testing.
> 
> Excellent.  I've long been awaiting an upgrade to the mv command.

Oh, don't you know that Linux is case-sensitive ?

Ciao
Racke

-- 
LinuXia Systems, eCommerce and more => http://www.linuxia.de/ or 0511-3941290.
Unsere Partner: Cobolt NetServices (http://www.cobolt.net), CAPCON Systemhouse
(http://www.capcon-systemhouse.com), ecoservice gmbh (http://www.ecoservice.de)
Unser Fokus liegt auf Open-Source-Software (MiniVend, Debian GNU/Linux, etc.)

Re: important vs release critical bugs

[Brian May]

> "Richard" == Richard Braakman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Richard> If you think a bug is particularly important, then by all
Richard> means do whatever you can to fix it, or call attention to
Richard> the bug in some other way.  Severity "normal" does not
Richard> mean "please ignore this bug until the sun goes out".

That sounds good in theory, but does it work in practise? I don't
think so.

I have a number of bugs, which I consider important, but not release
critical, that are at two years old. Some of these bugs should be easy
to fix, often I never received a single reply.

I don't have time to chase up the maintainer when he/she does not
reply to my messages...

As an example, have a look at #24082 - the upstream authors supplied a
patch. Approx one year later, I asked the maintainer: has the patch
been applied? No answer. Chances are, the patch is now meaningless, as
the maintainer has taken to long to reply... Or, perhaps it was
applied ages ago, but didn't solve the problem (I haven't checked this
within the last year, I try to use another non-free program instead).

Another bug, I consider important, but not release critical is #23193.
Never one reply. If the maintainer was unsure how to fix the problem,
then he could always have asked me, or debian-devel.

Or, bug #34752, which makes mailx unusable for large mail items
(segmentation fault). The longer it takes for the maintainer to
respond, the harder and more inconvenient it is for me to reproduce (I
may have deleted my test data ages ago).

Also, look at bug #22961, I think this should be easy to fix (it
involves a shell script), and while it is purely "aesthetic", I haven't
had any replies.

Not to mention documentation bugs that are two years old, eg
#29183...

My guess is #25653 and #25756 can be closed, will investigate later.

I could go on and on... Then there a fresh bugs in potato that look
like the might be following the same path. See #58757, for
instance. Then again, perhaps this bug *should* be important, oh
sorry, it is... (not sure if this package has been affected by the
last bug horizon or not, if this was discussed, then sorry, I missed
it).

Disclaimer: some of these bugs may have been fixed, I know some
haven't.
-- 
Brian May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: Signing Packages.gz

[Robert Bihlmeyer]

Anthony Towns  writes:

> Well, it'd be nice to be able to do so, to verify that a mirror hasn't
> been compromised, but no, you're right.

Actually I don't care that much if the mirror is compromised, if it
affects only packages that I don't install. If it affects some of
those packages, I will notice and alert the mainainer.

> Actually, now I think about it, the Packages file itself is valuable
> information. Consider a Packages file that doesn't actually changes the
> .deb's, but changes the netbase entry, say to read:
> 
>   Package: netbase
>   Depends: vim
>   Conflicts: nvi, emacsen
> 
> and leaves everything else the same.

Nice one. Though, not possible the way I envision the "signed
Packages.gz". Imagine the following:

Package: cvs
Version: 1.10.7-7
Priority: optional
[...]
installed-size: 944
Signature-DSS: @[EMAIL PROTECTED])N871I=F4@:6YF;RUF:6QE('9I97=E<@H`

Package: cvs-buildpackage
[...]
Signature-DSS: L5')Y(&!U=65N8V]D92`M+6AE;'`G(&9O Per-package signatures would naturally accompany the package, not the
> Packages.gz file.

No, see above.

> Speaking about `more secure than the debian machines themselves' is
> meaningless. If you can compromise the debian machines themselves,
> you're home and hosed. You can do anything and everything.

Not true! If you have a trusted key of a developer, no amount of
fiddling with the debian machines could corrupt the source packages
this developer uploaded without you noticing. Because .dsc files are
signed by their maintainer's key. This won't work for binary packages,
though. And that could be changed.

> No, it doesn't. And what would such a mirror actually *do*? Just mirror
> master as it gets compromised, and end up compromised itself?

The premise was that master is not easily compromised (and if it is,
we're hosed anyway at the moment). But remember that users can't
download from master, they have to use a by definition less secure
mirror. A direct mirror under the auspices of the Debian admin-team
would be a possibility for users to get it "straight from the horse's
mouth".

> Huh? .debs are never created and uploaded without any intervention,
> as I understand it. Including ports.

Aha. Sorry for being ignorant. So per-package signing could use either
the maintainer's key, or the porter's. It would have been a problem if
building port had been automated.

-- 
Robbe

Re: RBL report..

[Joseph Carter]

On Wed, Mar 29, 2000 at 06:56:47PM +1000, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
> > often than not knows better.  (Let pacbell.net's shoody NT mail server
> > route MY mail?  NOT LIKELY!)
> 
> Have you ever had mail actually disappear through their server, or do
> you just distrust it because it's running on NT? Seriously?

I've read their status page.  I check it about twice a day.  Very long
periods of "you cannot send mail" and "sorry for anything that was lost"..
Would YOU trust such a server if those sorts of issues were common?

I won't.


> > So there's at least a margin of error.  And don't you EVEN TRY to tell me
> > that if I don't like my ISP that I should get another.  There are an awful
> > lot of people out there who simply CAN'T DO THAT.  Expecting them to is
> > even more of an example of just how wrong the DUL is from its beginning.
> 
> What is the exact reason why you cannot get another ISP Joseph?
> Have you been blacklisted by all the others in your area already?

First: YOUR SPAM IS NOT MY FUCKING PROBLEM.

Second: Broadband providers are not a commodity.  And they're usually not
cheap.

Third: The difference in cost between my DSL service and any other
broadband service (even with lest bandwidth!) is almost exponentially more
expensive.  You've not offered to pay the difference.  (Nor do I suspect
that you could afford it..)

-- 
Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3
Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC
The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/)   44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3

 Thunder-: when you get { MessagesLikeThisFromYourHardDrive }
 Thunder-: it either means { TheDriverIsScrewy }
 or
 { YourDriveIsFlakingOut BackUpYourDataBeforeIt'sTooLate
PrayToGod }

Re: Is someone working on Jazz++ ?

[Diana Galletly]

On Wed, 29 Mar 2000, Branden Robinson wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 24, 2000 at 08:56:15AM -0300, Eduardo Marcel Macan wrote:
> > Hello, I noticed Jazz++ (www.jazzware.com) is now released under
> > the GPL, is there anyone working on it? Unfortunately I don't have the time
> > to do it, but I'd like to see it packaged. It is the best linux midi 
> > sequencer nowadays.
> 
> I tried, but it would not build and failed in several places.

Ditto.

> It is written mostly in C++, and I don't know C++.  Not to mention the fact
> that I do have one or two other packages on my plate.

It is also reliant on wxWindows 1.68.  Granted, one might not always use
the *most* up-to-date version of things, but 1.68 is prehistoric now, and
people are generally advised to upgrade.

I'll take a look to see if I can get it working with current wxWindows
(the ones that Ron's been packaging up lately) but I'm not entirely
hopeful.  Someone with version 1.68 might have more luck if they want
to try ...

Diana.
-- 
+  Diana Galletly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  +
+   http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~galletly/   +

Re: how about a real unstable?

[Petr Cech]

On Wed, Mar 29, 2000 at 12:13:45PM +0200 , Josip Rodin wrote:
> grep experimental /etc/apt/sources.list, please?

deb http://samosa.debian.org/debian/project/experimental/ /

Petr Cech
--
Debian GNU/Linux maintainer - www.debian.{org,cz}
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: how about a real unstable?

[Josip Rodin]

On Wed, Mar 29, 2000 at 08:19:18AM +0200, Petr Cech wrote:
> > > This is what experimental is for, no?
> > > 
> > > Unstable is for unstable Debian, not necessarily unstable software. The
> > > experimental distribution is much more appropriate for unstable upstream
> > > software.
> > 
> > agreed with the addition that experimental must also be apt'able.
> 
> it is.

grep experimental /etc/apt/sources.list, please?

-- 
Digital Electronic Being Intended for Assassination and Nullification

Re: RBL report..

[Joseph Carter]

On Wed, Mar 29, 2000 at 12:06:19PM +0200, Josip Rodin wrote:
> > Hell, Joseph, have you ever stopped to read one of your own posts to
> > see what you really sound like? 
> 
> I agree, knghtbrd, you sound too fanatical(sp?). Calm down, and perhaps
> people will pay more attention to what you're saying.

I have read them.  (I did write them after all.)

ORBS and DUL _are_ that bad - or worse!  DUL _is_ discrimination based on
assumptions about a person's connection type and ORBS _is_ blacklist
terrorism.


I'm not the only person here who thinks so.  Make Debian use all the
blacklists you want.  You'll find users and developers dropping like
flies.

-- 
Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3
Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC
The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/)   44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3

There is no snooze button on a cat who wants breakfast.

Re: RBL report..

[Josip Rodin]

On Wed, Mar 29, 2000 at 06:56:47PM +1000, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
> Hell, Joseph, have you ever stopped to read one of your own posts to
> see what you really sound like? 

I agree, knghtbrd, you sound too fanatical(sp?). Calm down, and perhaps
people will pay more attention to what you're saying.

-- 
Digital Electronic Being Intended for Assassination and Nullification

Re: MiniVend Debian package

[Branden Robinson]

On Wed, Mar 29, 2000 at 10:11:57AM +0200, Stefan Hornburg wrote:
> OK, now as MV 4.03 is out, there is a Debian package available now
> for testing.

Excellent.  I've long been awaiting an upgrade to the mv command.

-- 
G. Branden Robinson| A committee is a life form with six or
Debian GNU/Linux   | more legs and no brain.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | -- Robert Heinlein
roger.ecn.purdue.edu/~branden/ |


pgp6q02Oj3vjm.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Paradise

[Branden Robinson]

On Tue, Mar 28, 2000 at 03:53:22PM -0600, Jeffrey Watts wrote:
> Hello, I'm a member of the Paradise Netrek development team.  Paradise
> Netrek is a X based game that started as Xtrek back in 1986.  It is a
> multiplayer, real-time, Internet game.
> 
> Paradise has undergone a revival recently, and active development has
> resumed.
> 
> The Paradise Netrek developers would like to work with Debian to get
> Paradise included in Debian GNU/Linux.
> 
> Please let me know what I need to do or who I need to contact.  I should
> be on debian-devel but feel free to CC me.

Sounds great, but the first thing we need to know is:

What's the license on Paradise Netrek?

If it is DFSG-free (and it is if it uses the GPL, LGPL, MIT, or BSD without
advertising clause licenses), then you're bound to generate enthusiasm.  :)

-- 
G. Branden Robinson| Never underestimate the power of human
Debian GNU/Linux   | stupidity.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | -- Robert Heinlein
roger.ecn.purdue.edu/~branden/ |


pgp5s3ga38OpK.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Encryption Builds

[Branden Robinson]

On Tue, Mar 28, 2000 at 02:28:49PM -0800, Brent Fulgham wrote:
> Can anyone refresh my memory as to the legality of encryption-enabled builds
> of software inside the U.S.  Did we (like Kernel.org) decide it was okay to
> host this in U.S.-based servers, or are we still recommending
> that members of the free world do such builds?
> 
> If the answer is to not build inside the U.S., I need a non-US developer
> to help me build a SSL module for AOLserver.

A flamewar on -private between myself, Manoj, and Ben Collins led to the
conclusion that it's not yet safe to distribute crypto in the U.S.  I
posted another message to -devel a few minutes ago with more information.

-- 
G. Branden Robinson|Suffer before God and ye shall be
Debian GNU/Linux   |redeemed.  God loves us, so He makes us
[EMAIL PROTECTED] |suffer Christianity.
roger.ecn.purdue.edu/~branden/ |-- Aaron Dunsmore


pgpIrw6tWgb9M.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: WNPP

[Branden Robinson]

On Tue, Mar 28, 2000 at 08:58:38AM +0200, Radovan Garabik wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 27, 2000 at 08:27:29PM -0500, Brian Almeida wrote:
> > ...or maybe not.  It's got cryptographic hashing algos (tiger, sha1, etc), 
> > so
> > I probably can't package it due to wonderful US laws. Drat.
> 
> Strange... I read everywhere that US export restrictions are now gone.
> (e.g. just a minute ago the announcement of redhat 6.2)

New regulations were adopted in January that lift some of the restrictions
on cryptographic software, but it's still treated specially by U.S. law.
What's more, those changes were deliberately temporary, and are up for
review next month and may be revoked or replaced.

It is too soon to tell whether the U.S. is going to join the free world
when it comes to crypto or not.  Louis Freeh (Director of the FBI)
testified before Congress this week, and muttered ominously about increases
in "cyber-crime".  You can rest assured that he trotted out his usual
apocalyptic horsemen of child pornography, illegal drug trafficking, and
terrorism on U.S. soil to try and scare Congress into permitting universal
warrantless wiretaps, key escrow, and other acts of urination on the Fourth
Amendment.

-- 
G. Branden Robinson|The errors of great men are venerable
Debian GNU/Linux   |because they are more fruitful than the
[EMAIL PROTECTED] |truths of little men.
roger.ecn.purdue.edu/~branden/ |-- Friedrich Nietzsche


pgpFFu2lBWToW.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Is someone working on Jazz++ ?

[Branden Robinson]

On Fri, Mar 24, 2000 at 08:56:15AM -0300, Eduardo Marcel Macan wrote:
>   Hello, I noticed Jazz++ (www.jazzware.com) is now released under
> the GPL, is there anyone working on it? Unfortunately I don't have the time
> to do it, but I'd like to see it packaged. It is the best linux midi sequencer
> nowadays.

I tried, but it would not build and failed in several places.

It is written mostly in C++, and I don't know C++.  Not to mention the fact
that I do have one or two other packages on my plate.

Someone who does, please adopt this package.  As added incentive, if you get
it working, you'll a get a "avoid-Overfiend-bitch-out-for-free" card.  This
offer is valid for a limited time only!  Not for pets or small children.

-- 
G. Branden Robinson| Communism is just one step on the long
Debian GNU/Linux   | road from capitalism to capitalism.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | -- Russian saying
roger.ecn.purdue.edu/~branden/ |


pgp9aDvRHtXfI.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: RBL report..

[Hamish Moffatt]

On Tue, Mar 28, 2000 at 11:33:41PM -0800, Joseph Carter wrote:
> often than not knows better.  (Let pacbell.net's shoody NT mail server
> route MY mail?  NOT LIKELY!)

Have you ever had mail actually disappear through their server, or do
you just distrust it because it's running on NT? Seriously?
Hell, Joseph, have you ever stopped to read one of your own posts to
see what you really sound like? 

> So there's at least a margin of error.  And don't you EVEN TRY to tell me
> that if I don't like my ISP that I should get another.  There are an awful
> lot of people out there who simply CAN'T DO THAT.  Expecting them to is
> even more of an example of just how wrong the DUL is from its beginning.

What is the exact reason why you cannot get another ISP Joseph?
Have you been blacklisted by all the others in your area already?


Hamish
-- 
Hamish Moffatt VK3SB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: Uninstallable packages & testing

[Richard Braakman]

On Tue, Mar 28, 2000 at 01:20:33PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
>   tkirc (not installable on any arch, depends on ircii, which isn't in
>   potato or woody)

ircii is now in non-us.

Richard Braakman

Re: Debconf & LDAP (Was: Debconf question)

[Turbo Fredriksson]

> "Joey" == Joey Hess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Joey> Turbo Fredriksson wrote:
>> Where's the design specs of the rest of the system so far?

Joey> http://kitenet.net/doc/debconf/specification.html

I'll have a look at it, and see what I can come up with...


-- 

nuclear Saddam Hussein strategic AK-47 Mossad Khaddafi BATF Nazi
supercomputer colonel explosion Honduras NSA Marxist World Trade
Center

Re: 0 days till bug horizon

[Richard Braakman]

On Wed, Mar 29, 2000 at 03:05:26PM +1000, Brian May wrote:
> How do you say "this bug is important enough to be fixed for frozen"?
> 
> Often, for instance, there are times when a really simple bug causes a
> package to break seriously for some users. While the package should
> not get dropped if it isn't fixed in time, it still looks bad for
> Debian as a whole if this stuff gets released.

Basically that means you need to make up your mind :-)
Either the bug means the package is unfit for release, and the package should
be dropped or the release delayed until it is fixed; or it does not.

Certainly it would be good if such a bug were fixed before the release,
but that is true for nearly any bug, and we'd end up never releasing
anything.

If you think a bug is particularly important, then by all means do whatever
you can to fix it, or call attention to the bug in some other way.  Severity
"normal" does not mean "please ignore this bug until the sun goes out".

If you mark a bug release-critical, then that means I have to worry about
it, and have to make other people worry about it.  Please don't do that
unless the bug really is critical to the release.

Richard Braakman

MiniVend Debian package

[Stefan Hornburg]

OK, now as MV 4.03 is out, there is a Debian package available now
for testing. If you have a spare system, please try it out and
blame me for problems.

NOTE: This is not for production use !!

More infos and download: http://www.linuxia.de/minivend/mvgoesdebian.en.html
Any comments will be appreciated. 

Ciao
Racke

-- 
LinuXia Systems, eCommerce and more => http://www.linuxia.de/ or 0511-3941290.
Unsere Partner: Cobolt NetServices (http://www.cobolt.net), CAPCON Systemhouse
(http://www.capcon-systemhouse.com), ecoservice gmbh (http://www.ecoservice.de)
Unser Fokus liegt auf Open-Source-Software (MiniVend, Debian GNU/Linux, etc.)

Re: debconf: how to configure non-interactive install

[Thomas Gebhardt]

Hi,

> Do you want to go in and change defaults in the database? Yes, that's
> doable, though there is no well-polished program to do it as of yet.

yes, that's what I want to do. My aim is to use FAI (Fully automated
installation, cf. http://www.informatik.uni-koeln.de/fai/) for
the installation of potato. Currently FAI tries to install the
packages non-interactively with the default values (using
various heuristics such as '(yes "" | dpkg --configure -a') and
configures the system with cfengine. It would be nice to supply
a native debconf method for configuration.

I will be absent for a couple of weeks in the near future, so don't
bother if I do not reply to emails.

Thanks, Thomas

Re: Debconf & LDAP (Was: Debconf question)

[Joey Hess]

Turbo Fredriksson wrote:
> Where's the design specs of the rest of the system so far?

http://kitenet.net/doc/debconf/specification.html

-- 
see shy jo

Re: Paradise

[Stephane Bortzmeyer]

On Tuesday 28 March 2000, at 15 h 53, the keyboard of Jeffrey Watts 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> The Paradise Netrek developers would like to work with Debian to get
> Paradise included in Debian GNU/Linux.

Thanks for your interest in Debian and welcome here.

First, you should tell what your licence is 
( if you want food for 
thought). Since Debian is about free software 
, this is the first thing we usually 
consider.

Second, the inclusion of a package into Debian depends only on one maintainer 
packaging the software and uploading it. There is no central decision or vote 
to include or reject a package. Therefore, you have to find a volunteer (any 
Debian maintainer, they are several hundreds). Asking on debian-devel is a good 
idea, just be sure you include the licence and the address to download your 
software.

Re: Debconf & LDAP (Was: Debconf question)

[Turbo Fredriksson]

> "Joey" == Joey Hess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Joey> Turbo Fredriksson wrote:
>> Ahh, I see... I was looking through the sources a little, but i
>> couldn't find the 'main file' so to speak... :)
>> 
>> How much is done, need any help? We need it at work, and i can
>> do much of this on 'official company time' :)

Joey> There's a big hole in the spec debconf implements, where the
Joey> specification of the backend database should be. That hole
Joey> needs to be plugged, but going in and writing code is not
Joey> the answer, we need a design.

Ofcource... 'Design first, code later' is my middle name... Usually :)

Where's the design specs of the rest of the system so far?

-- 

NORAD Delta Force Nazi Mossad Ortega explosion radar terrorist [Hello
to all my fans in domestic surveillance] strategic supercomputer
cracking Clinton SDI fissionable

Re: RBL report..

[Joseph Carter]

On Wed, Mar 29, 2000 at 09:17:46AM +0200, Alexander Koch wrote:
> > Yes there is more spam, but I've been looking and I haven't seen that much
> > (if any at all) would be blocked by DUL.
> 
> I personally think the DUL is "most harmless" RBL and the "most
> legitimate" (bad wording probably) for use. And if it only catches
> on spam a week it is worth it, methinks.

Yeah - too bad blacklists your average linux installation right?  And even
your average linux user who knows how to set up a proper smarthost more
often than not knows better.  (Let pacbell.net's shoody NT mail server
route MY mail?  NOT LIKELY!)

DUL listed my own (STATIC!) IP until a week ago.  I complained loudly to
the people responsible and was told by the idiots at pacbell that of
course the DSL IPs were listed in the DUL - they wanted you to use their
servers since that's what they provide them for.  Application of a cluebat
was necessary, I'm told that none of the static IP DSL users are DUL
listed anymore.


So there's at least a margin of error.  And don't you EVEN TRY to tell me
that if I don't like my ISP that I should get another.  There are an awful
lot of people out there who simply CAN'T DO THAT.  Expecting them to is
even more of an example of just how wrong the DUL is from its beginning.


RSS and RBL at least are measures taken to combat known spammer friendly
sites.  DUL discriminates on what kind of connection you supposedly have.
ORBS is just rediculous.

-- 
Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3
Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC
The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/)   44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3

 red dye causes cancer, haven't you heard? (;
 fucking everything causes cancer, haven't you heard?
 =>
 no, that causes aids

Re: RBL report..

[Alexander Koch]

On Tue, Mar 28, 2000 at 02:02:23PM -0700, Jason Gunthorpe wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Mar 2000, Alexander Koch wrote:
> > DUL is interesting. I changed my mind on that. I rather say
> > we use it since the amount of spam is certainly increasing
> > the last weeks and DUL is understandable.
> 
> Yes there is more spam, but I've been looking and I haven't seen that much
> (if any at all) would be blocked by DUL.

I personally think the DUL is "most harmless" RBL and the "most
legitimate" (bad wording probably) for use. And if it only catches
on spam a week it is worth it, methinks.

I do not have the exact figures, unfortunately.

Alexander

Re: Signing Packages.gz

[Chris Frey]

Robert Bihlmeyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> That's just the point: the security of a singly-signed Packages.gz
> would not be much higher than that of the ftp sites themselves.
> Nothing to win, here.

Actually I'm not concerned right now with the security of the main
debian ftp site.  While that's important, I assume that has already
been handled.

I just want to make sure that the packages I download come from Debian
and not some man-in-the-middle.  I can do that now on a maintainer level
by using the source.  But I cannot check that the binary I got really
came from Debian people.

And if Packages is signed, I would expect whoever or whatever signs it
to also check that the packages listed inside that file actually came
from a Debian maintainer.  As far as I understand it, this is possible
since the package upload (binary) is also signed by the maintainer.

It seems like the only path that does not have at least some cryptographic
safety is the path from Debian to the poor user. :-)

And I hope Potato's Packages file can be signed so I don't have to wait
for Woody.  Even if I have to manually download the Packages file, check
the signature, then update my system - even that will save me *hours* of
work!

- Chris

Re: how about a real unstable?

[Petr Cech]

On Tue, Mar 28, 2000 at 01:48:01PM -0800 , Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote:
> > This is what experimental is for, no?
> > 
> > Unstable is for unstable Debian, not necessarily unstable software. The
> > experimental distribution is much more appropriate for unstable upstream
> > software.
> > 
> agreed with the addition that experimental must also be apt'able.  Getting

it is.

Petr Cech
--
Debian GNU/Linux maintainer - www.debian.{org,cz}
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]

OT: Debian-Documentation for SelfLinux?

[Andreas Tille]

Hello,

I want to help the authors of the German SelfLinux project.
They are searching for German documentation of Debian and the
license of it.  Unfortunately I didn't looked for such stuff and
I'm currently not able to do some investigation, because of
short time.  Could anyone possibly help these guys?

Kind regards

  Andreas.


-- Forwarded message --
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 00:03:40 +0100
From: Matthias Kleine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Debian-Doku fuer SelfLinux?

Liebe Debian-Freunde in der Liste!

Ich meine mich zu erinnern, daß es vom Debian-Projekt eine eigene
Dokumentation gibt (nur in Englisch oder auch in Deutsch?), darunter
auch einführende Linux-Kapitel. Ist diese Doku komplett GPL (wie man
annehmen sollte)? Mit wem wäre denn ggf. Kontakt aufzunehmen, um
darüber zu reden, ob Teile dieser Doku auch ins SelfLinux-Projekt mit
aufgenommen werden können?

Dabei sollen die Texte freilich ins SelfLinux-Format gebracht,
entsprechend angepaßt, verlinkt und indiziert werden, es geht also
nicht um reines Kopieren. Vielmehr wollen wir die vorhandenen
Ressourcen möglichst optimal ausnutzen und uns nicht unnötig Arbeit
machen, wenn durchaus gutes Material bereits vorliegt.

Danke für Hinweise,
Matthias

 -- 
SelfLinux  http://www.selflinux.de  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
News: Formatreferenz 0.2 ist raus - http://www.selflinux.de/doku

Re: 0 days till bug horizon

[Ben Collins]

Sorry, simple reply for the sake of testing out poor mail server.

Ben

Re: 0 days till bug horizon

[Brian May]

> "Richard" == Richard Braakman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Richard> On Tue, Mar 28, 2000 at 10:03:33AM +1000, Brian May
Richard> wrote:
>> I set the severity to important, as I feel that bbdb support is
>> important for gnus, and also, because I think it should be easy
>> to fix (if you know what you are doing --- I don't).
Richard> [...]
>> I don't think it is worth dropping the package though.

Richard> Classic mistake.  The "important" severity is misnamed.
Richard> It doesn't mean "this bug is important", it means "this
Richard> package is unfit for release".

How do you say "this bug is important enough to be fixed for frozen"?

Often, for instance, there are times when a really simple bug causes a
package to break seriously for some users. While the package should
not get dropped if it isn't fixed in time, it still looks bad for
Debian as a whole if this stuff gets released.

-- 
Brian May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: WNPP\

[Mike Markley]

I've already got it packaged. I posted to debian-devel about it some time
ago. I'm working out a couple of minor issues with the potato binary
package, the slink one's up. See ftp.madhack.com/debian.

I plan to post some info on the postinst problem I'm running into tomorrow,
when I have better access to my potato system at work.

On Mon, Mar 27, 2000 at 12:39:52PM -0800, Joey Hess wrote:
> Someone should package AIDE (http://www.cs.tut.fi/~rammer/aide.html). It's
> a free tripwire replacement.
> 
> -- 
> see shy jo
> 
> 
> -- 
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

-- 
Mike Markley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
PGP: 0xA9592D4D 62 A7 11 E2 23 AD 4F 57  27 05 1A 76 56 92 D5 F6
GPG: 0x3B047084 7FC7 0DC0 EF31 DF83 7313  FE2B 77A8 F36A 3B04 7084

... The prejudices people feel about each other disappear when then get
to know each other.
- Kirk, "Elaan of Troyius", stardate 4372.5

Re: Paradise

[Jeffrey Watts]

On Wed, 29 Mar 2000, Neil Hunt wrote:

> I'm in the process of debianising the vanilla server, and a few of the
> clients, if you wish, I can also take care of the paradise server.

Unfortunately, this cannot be done.  I have discovered that the Paradise
server code has an annoying "non-commercial use" clause that prohibits
distribution for a fee.

I'm working to correct the copyright and license problems with Paradise.

The client meets the specifications, though the license is weak and poorly
written.  Contact me off-list and we'll work on something.

The client has had a major overhaul, and the two trees (TedTurner and
standard) have been merged.  In addition, Dave Ahn has merged in many
fixes from the Bronco client.  We are planning a new release Real Soon
Now.

Thanks,
Jeffrey.

o---o
| Jeffrey Watts |
| [EMAIL PROTECTED] o---o
| Systems Programmer | "I think the reason American cars aren't  |
| Network Systems Management |  as good as Japanese cars is due to the   |
| Sprint Communications  |  difference in dinosaurs.  Any clunker|
o|  with a motor can outrun Barney, but it   |
 |  takes a real speedster to escape |
 |  Godzilla."   |
 |  -- Dave James|
 o---o

mozilla under frozen

[Kenneth Scharf]

Think I may have a bug report for Mozilla.  Twice I
tried to use it to download a rather large file (iso
cd rom image) and after about 50-100 megs or so my
computer went into a swap fit with constat disk
thrashing.  I was running mozilla under gnome desktop
with sawmill as the window manager.  I can use
commandline ftp just fine to download the same file
with no swapping.  I have 128mb of ram and a 255mb
swap partition  

=
Amateur Radio, when all else fails!

http://www.qsl.net/wa2mze

Debian Gnu Linux, Live Free or .



__
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com

Re: Paradise

[Neil Hunt]

Hi Jeffrey,
I'm in the process of debianising the vanilla server, and a few of the clients, 
if you wish, I can also take care of the paradise server.

Neil
On Tue, Mar 28, 2000 at 03:53:22PM -0600, Jeffrey Watts wrote:
> Hello, I'm a member of the Paradise Netrek development team.  Paradise
> Netrek is a X based game that started as Xtrek back in 1986.  It is a
> multiplayer, real-time, Internet game.
> 
> Paradise has undergone a revival recently, and active development has
> resumed.
> 
> The Paradise Netrek developers would like to work with Debian to get
> Paradise included in Debian GNU/Linux.
> 
> Please let me know what I need to do or who I need to contact.  I should
> be on debian-devel but feel free to CC me.
> 
> Thanks,
> Jeffrey.
> 
> o---o
> | Jeffrey Watts |
> | [EMAIL PROTECTED] o---o
> | Systems Programmer | "Is uniformity [of religion] attainable?  |
> | Network Systems Management |  Millions of innocent men, women, and |
> | Sprint Communications  |  children, since the introduction of  |
> o|  Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, |
>  |  fined, imprisoned; yet we have not   |
>  |  advanced one inch towards uniformity.|
>  |  -- Thomas Jefferson, "Notes on Virginia" |
>  o---o
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 

-- 
Neil Hunt
HuntCorp
Perth, Western Australia
0414 306 238

Neurotics build castles in the sky,
Psychotics live in them,
And psychiatrists collect the rent.

Re: Paradise

[David Starner]

On Tue, Mar 28, 2000 at 03:53:22PM -0600, Jeffrey Watts wrote:
> Hello, I'm a member of the Paradise Netrek development team.  Paradise
> Netrek is a X based game that started as Xtrek back in 1986.  It is a
> multiplayer, real-time, Internet game.
> 
> Paradise has undergone a revival recently, and active development has
> resumed.
> 
> The Paradise Netrek developers would like to work with Debian to get
> Paradise included in Debian GNU/Linux.
> 
> Please let me know what I need to do or who I need to contact.  I should
> be on debian-devel but feel free to CC me.

It's simple really. There's two ways: one, you get a developer to jump
up and say "I want to package Paradise!". If this doesn't success in doing
that, the other is to package it yourself (there's plenty of documentation
and thousands of examples.) Then ask this list for someone to sponsor it 
into Debian. Assuming that it has a DFSG (Debian Free Software Guidelines) 
compliant license and it's packaged right, someone should be willing to
do that. 

-- 
David Starner - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Only a nerd would worry about wrong parentheses with
square brackets. But that's what mathematicians are.
   -- Dr. Burchard, math professor at OSU

Beta Testing

[John and Donna Bristle]

I would like to join the beta test team.  I am presently a software test
engineer for Ontrack Data International and do alpha test of software
that is used for data recovery.

I am interested in Linux and would like to help in whatever way I can.

John Bristle

[EMAIL PROTECTED]