source dependencies for source packages

[Matthias Klose]

We now have Build-Depends for source packages. What I do miss are
Source-Dependencies for Source-packages. Problem: gcc takes long to
build and test on some architectures. Adding cross compiler support
would increase the build time for some architectures to some cpu days
and disk requirements up to 1GB, which doesn't seem acceptable. And
packaging mistakes in architecture dependant packages (like gcc)
unfortunately are not so rare, so you have make some tries to get
correct binary packages. That's the schema which currently uses the
(still small?) binutils package.

1) A solution could be copying the source package and building cross
compilers from this package. But you would have to keep the "native"
and the "cross" source package in sync.

2) Another solution could be to keep the build infrastructure in one
source package and then setting one variable from outside to build the
needed cross compilers: TARGET= dpkg-buildpackge ...
Not sure if this is allowed by policy, because it requires manual
intervention in the build process.

3) Next solution could be 2), but setting the environment variable from
another source package (i.e. gcc-cross). For that scenario the source
scenario is needed. The advantages for this scenario is the
manangement of upstream source, build infrastructure and patches in
one source package. I do realize that the native gcc packages still
need to be recompiled for all architectures, when the build
infrastructure for one target architecture changes, but you wouldn't have
to recompile the native and the cross compilers for all
architectures. Saving disk space at build time as well.

4) Upload gcc source in a binary package and the build infrastructure
and patches in two other source packages. Source code duplication in
source and binary package. And a user usually doesn't recompile gcc.

I'd like some feedback
- about the introduction of source dependencies.
- and how to get this particular problem solved, if source
  dependencies are not acceptable

  Matthias

Addon: FHS doesn't say anything where to install files for cross
development platforms. gcc installs these files by default to
/usr//{bin,include,lib,...}, which is not allowed by FHS. OTOH
altgcc and libc5 use this location.

Where's ttmkfdir?

[Carl B. Constantine]

I'm wanted to add some TrueType fonts to my system for X4.0.2 to use but
can't seem to find the ttmkfdir util anywhere in the packages. Has someone
packaged this? Where is it? I searched descriptions and package names at
debian.org but no go.


-- 
Carl B. Constantine ([EMAIL PROTECTED])Phone: 250.953.2650
Open Source Solutions Inc.   Fax: 250.953.2659
4252 Commerce Circle, Victoria, BC.  V8Z 4M2  http://www.os-s.com/

 Up the line - out the server- past the firewall - nothing but Net!!

Re: Packages' use of dpkg-statoverride

[Joey Hess]

Joe Drew wrote:
> Is dpkg-statoverride meant to be used in a package, or only by sysadmins?

You can use it in a package's postinst if, for example, you ask "should
this program be suid?", and act on it by changing the permissions.

> I've got a package which currently asks whether the svgalib binary
> should be installed suid root. The safest way to do this, of course,
> would be to ship it 755, and then add the suid bit later. However,
> on installation, if the user says that the binary should be suid,
> should the postinst scripts call dpkg-statoverride? Or just set the suid
> bit?

Yes, call statoverride, I think.

-- 
see shy jo

Filenames too long

[Michelle Konzack]

Hello and good evening.

Now I have my POTATO-BOX and I have gotten new problems with 
too long filenames...

OK, I need to install mc and must do that with Floppys for the first time.
Normaly no problem because the Floppy has a minixfs and the directory /utils
with mc and mc-common... but the minixfs can not handel filenames longer as 
30 Characters.

Now I can not create the Packages File on the Floppy, because it ends on *.d

And then I was looking on my POTATO-Mirror and there are many Packages with 
filenames longer then 30 Characters.

My Question is:Who is responsable for this  ???

Now I must do all two times... rename files, copy...)

Thanks in advance
Michelle

-- 
Don't cc: me on mailinglists, I'm subscribed, if I write there.

Linux rebootet man in drei Fällen: 
Neuer Kernel, neue (Board-)Hardware, Stromausfall

Aber Windows rebootet man auch in drei Fällen: 
Schutzverletzung, Bluescreen, keinen Bock...

Packages' use of dpkg-statoverride

[Joe Drew]

Is dpkg-statoverride meant to be used in a package, or only by sysadmins?
I've got a package which currently asks whether the svgalib binary
should be installed suid root. The safest way to do this, of course,
would be to ship it 755, and then add the suid bit later. However,
on installation, if the user says that the binary should be suid,
should the postinst scripts call dpkg-statoverride? Or just set the suid
bit?

Re: Solving the compression dilema when rsync-ing Debian versions

[Otto Wyss]

>>> > gzip --compress-like=old-foo foo
>
>gzip creates a dictionary (that gets realy large) of strings that are
>used and encodes references to them. At the start the dictionary is
>empty, so the first char is pretty much unencoded and inserted into
>the dictionary. The next char is encoded using the first one and so
>on. That way longer and longer strings enter the dictionary.
>
...
>
>So, as you see, that method is not possible.
>
Okay lets asume gzip knows anyhow the table of the previous compression.
It starts compressing as usual, getting the first value to encode. Now
instead of just putting it at the first position it looks in the old
table and finds it at position 3. Gzip puts it at position 3 leaving the
first 2 unused. Now everthing goes fine until a value isn't found. This
time gzip appends it to the end of the table. Of course at a certain
point these to table diverge to much so gzip starts using a new table.

I don't know the outcome of such a compression but I think it will much
better correspond to the sources. Besides this algorithmus could be used as
gzip --compress=i386.gz

where i386 does contain a optimal table for i386 binaries. It will give
a better start compression rate while retaining an adaptable compression
and it allows to specify th optimal compression for any case.

I don't think mine is the best solution and I don't know if its working,
it just gives an idea how the problem could be solved. The principle is
to use the old compression scheme and adapt it as less as possible but
as much as necessary.

>But there is a little optimisation that can be used (and is used by
>the --rsyncable patch):
>
This is of course a very good solution, I only wouldn't call it
--rsyncable. I wouldn't make it an option at all. Anyhow it's not the
NonPlusUltra solution, there are cases where it will fail.

> > Maybe it's time to design a compression alogrithmus which has
> > this functionality (same difference rate as the source) from
> > the ground up.
>
>There are such algorithms, but they eigther allys use the same
>dictionary or table (like some i386.exe runtime compressors that are
>specialiesed to the patterns used in opcodes) or they waste space by
>adding the dictionary/table to the compressed file. Thats a huge waste
>with all the small diff files we have.
>
These all have fixed compression, as far as I know there isn't any which
combines a fixed with an adaptable compression. 

O. Wyss

Re: tar -I incompatibility

[Bernd Eckenfels]

On Wed, Jan 10, 2001 at 04:24:32AM -0600, Peter Samuelson wrote:
> (In defense of GNU fileutils, I don't think I've seen any two Unix
> versions of df with compatible output either.  The HP-UX 11 output is
> truly, ahem, interesting.)

HPUX has a df and a bdf, as far as i remeber. and they ship a GNU Version in
some extra dir.

Greetings
Bernd
-- 
  (OO)  -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] --
 ( .. )  [EMAIL PROTECTED],linux.de,debian.org} http://home.pages.de/~eckes/
  o--o *plush*  2048/93600EFD  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  +497257930613  BE5-RIPE
(OO)  When cryptography is outlawed, bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl!

Re: resolution of the tar -I issue

[Matt Zimmerman]

On Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 10:18:21PM -0800, Jakob 'sparky' Kaivo wrote:

> -[0-7][lmh] specify drive and density
> 
> I'm not sure exactly what that's for, but it does rule out -2. It kinda sucks
> when you completely run out of single character options. %-)

That's for specifying a tape drive and tape density setting.

-- 
 - mdz

Re: PERL MAINTAINERS SUCK - COMPLETE MORONS

[Adam Heath]

On Wed, 10 Jan 2001, Matt Zimmerman wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 10, 2001 at 09:01:40AM -0500, Daniel Martin wrote:
> 
> > Matt Zimmerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > 
> > > Well, if someone would like to configure the MTA that runs 
> > > bugs.debian.org to
> > > send CC's of all bug mail to another address, ...
> > 
> > You mean something other than signing up for debian-bugs-dist and
> > parsing the resulting traffic?
> > 
> > I realize that debian-bugs-dist isn't the same as getting the _input_
> > to the BTS, but if you want to maintain the same bug tracking numbers
> > you'll want the BTS to process the mail first in any case.
> 
> I don't know whether keeping the bug numbers synchronized is feasible or not,
> but I would probably try.  debian-bugs-dist doesn't seem to get copies of mail
> sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED], only the responses from the BTS.  I would rather 
> have the
> new system see every message that the BTS sees, and process everything for
> itself.  That way, if it would ever replace the existing BTS, we could be sure
> there were no dependencies on the old system.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] $ cat /org/bugs.debian.org/mail/.forward-default
|/usr/lib/debbugs/receive
[EMAIL PROTECTED] $ cat /org/bugs.debian.org/mail/.forward-owner  
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] $ cat /org/bugs.debian.org/mail/.forward-mailerrors 
/dev/null

It's just a matter of having the new system be in the correct .forward files.

BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK
Version: 3.12
GCS d- s: a-- c+++ UL P+ L !E W+ M o+ K- W--- !O M- !V PS--
PE++ Y+ PGP++ t* 5++ X+ tv b+ D++ G e h*! !r z?
-END GEEK CODE BLOCK-
BEGIN PGP INFO
Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Finger Print | KeyID
67 01 42 93 CA 37 FB 1E63 C9 80 1D 08 CF 84 0A | DE656B05 PGP
AD46 C888 F587 F8A3 A6DA  3261 8A2C 7DC2 8BD4 A489 | 8BD4A489 GPG
-END PGP INFO-

s/key anyone?

[Toni Mueller]

Hello,

I can't find the 'skey' program anywhere in the distributions.
Can anyone please tell me offhand why?

If this isn't a licensing question, then I surely will make
a stab at packaging this up! (and no, just saying "use otp
instead" isn't the answer).

Thank you!


Best Regards,
--Toni++

Re: Developer Behavior

[D-Man]

On Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 08:02:58AM +1100, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
| On Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 12:54:08AM +1100, Russell Coker wrote:
| > The thing is that a machine that can't load the correct kernel can be 
easily 
| > fixed, just use another machine to dd a kernel to a floppy.
| 
| You really need the kernel you have compiled for your machine,
| not just any kernel.
| 

Yes, but you should have made a rescue disk when you installed the
kernel.

| 
| Hamish
| -- 
| Hamish Moffatt VK3SB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| 

-D

Re: Developer Behavior

[John H. Robinson, IV]

On Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 08:02:58AM +1100, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 12:54:08AM +1100, Russell Coker wrote:
> > The thing is that a machine that can't load the correct kernel can be 
> > easily 
> > fixed, just use another machine to dd a kernel to a floppy.
> 
> You really need the kernel you have compiled for your machine,
> not just any kernel.

if you were able to install the system, then the generic kernel should be
able to work. at least enough to get youin to fix your LILO/GRUB.

-john

ITP: GPL Flash

[Brian Ristuccia]

http://www.swift-tools.com/Flash/

It's a netscape plugin, standalone player, and KDE screen saver capable of
displaying Macromedia Flash movies. Better than the Macromedia player since
we can distribute the actual software instead of just a lame installer. 

-- 
Brian Ristuccia
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Description: PGP signature

Re: 'export RESOLV_HOST_CONF= any file you want' local vulnerability

[Matt Zimmerman]

On Wed, Jan 10, 2001 at 09:55:29PM +1100, Hamish Moffatt wrote:

> On Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 07:19:53PM -0500, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> > I assume its purpose is to allow different resolver settings to be used with
> > individual programs.  For instance, perhaps one program should use DNS, 
> > while
> > another NIS, and still another only the local hosts file for name 
> > resolution.
> > For some programs, setting 'nospoof' will improve security; for others, it 
> > will
> > just cause some lookups to fail needlessly.
> 
> How does resolv.conf let you specify that? According to resolv.conf(5),
> resolv.conf is used for DNS only (which is what I always thought).
> You could accomplish the above if you could override /etc/nsswitch.conf
> though.

The environment variable in question lets you specify the location of
host.conf, not resolv.conf.

-- 
 - mdz

Re: Proposal: Reorganizing Python for Python 2.0

[Rob Tillotson]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> Now what if you install Python 2.0 and then call /usr/bin/python15?
> This will use the newly-compiled .pyc files which are incompatible.

Python handles this without doing anything nasty, thankfully... it
treats the unusable .pyc/.pyo file as if it was out-of-date or
nonexistent, and compiles the corresponding .py again.

The problem with this is that it can be quite slow, and if it needs to
be done repeatedly it defeats the purpose of having .pyc/.pyo files.
Also, if the code is in an unwritable directory -- as it will be, if
installed from a Debian package but run by a normal user -- the new
.pyc/.pyo couldn't be written anyway.  Thus, if the .pyc/.pyo files in
the package were compiled with 1.5, 2.0 would have to recompile the
.py source on every import, or vice versa.

--Rob

-- 
Rob Tillotson  N9MTB  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: mozilla 0.7

[Hamish Moffatt]

On Wed, Jan 10, 2001 at 02:26:42PM +0100, Arjan Drieman wrote:
> In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Brian Almeida wrote:
> >> I filed a bug report about the new mozilla 0.7 release. It looks
> >> like it's got PSM built in so it will comfort a lot of people.
> >> It would be highly appreciated if you could give it a whirl.
> >.%( WhoIs: MythDead
> >:%( address  : [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> >:%( away : Yes, I know its out, leave me the fuck alone 
> >
> >Bad move...
> 
> Is it recommended to send bug reports about new releases in general?  Or
> is it recommended not to?

A friendly email to @packages.debian.org after a few days
would be OK, a bug report straight away is poor form.

Hamish
-- 
Hamish Moffatt VK3SB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: PERL MAINTAINERS SUCK - COMPLETE MORONS

[Matt Zimmerman]

On Wed, Jan 10, 2001 at 09:01:40AM -0500, Daniel Martin wrote:

> Matt Zimmerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > Well, if someone would like to configure the MTA that runs bugs.debian.org 
> > to
> > send CC's of all bug mail to another address, ...
> 
> You mean something other than signing up for debian-bugs-dist and
> parsing the resulting traffic?
> 
> I realize that debian-bugs-dist isn't the same as getting the _input_
> to the BTS, but if you want to maintain the same bug tracking numbers
> you'll want the BTS to process the mail first in any case.

I don't know whether keeping the bug numbers synchronized is feasible or not,
but I would probably try.  debian-bugs-dist doesn't seem to get copies of mail
sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED], only the responses from the BTS.  I would rather 
have the
new system see every message that the BTS sees, and process everything for
itself.  That way, if it would ever replace the existing BTS, we could be sure
there were no dependencies on the old system.

-- 
 - mdz

Re: Developer Behavior

[Hamish Moffatt]

On Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 12:54:08AM +1100, Russell Coker wrote:
> The thing is that a machine that can't load the correct kernel can be easily 
> fixed, just use another machine to dd a kernel to a floppy.

You really need the kernel you have compiled for your machine,
not just any kernel.


Hamish
-- 
Hamish Moffatt VK3SB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: ITP: Bakery

[Joseph Carter]

On Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 02:06:22AM +0100, Mariusz Przygodzki wrote:
> > > Bakery is a C++ Framework for creating GNOME applications using Gnome--
> > > (gnomemm) and Gtk-- (gtkmm).
> >
> > What's the difference with Glade?
> 
> Eeee. What's the difference with Glade-- rather?
> 
> As you know Glade-- is backend for Glade for creating C++ programm source 
> skeletenon. Glade is a RAD tool to enable quick development of user 
> interface. Glade-- (or rather an application created with the aid of it) 
> functionality depends on libraries Gtk-- and Gnome-- entirely. 

Never should you generate source code with Glade.  The result is ugly and
not very good anyway.  There is libglade for this purpose.

-- 
Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Free software developer

 Exactly how much of a PITA is this in C?
 It's written in C++.
 Hence my question.
 I could do something like it in C.  Anyone who saw the results
   would think I was either a genius or out of my fucking mind.
   They'd be right on either count.



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Re: big Packages.gz file

[Goswin Brederlow]

> " " == Brian May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> "zhaoway" == zhaoway  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
zhaoway> This is only a small part of the whole story, IMHO. See
zhaoway> my other email replying you. ;)

>>> Maybe there could be another version of Packages.gz without
>>> the extended descriptions -- I imagine they would take
>>> something like 33% of the Packages file, in line count at
>>> least.

zhaoway> Exactly. DIFF or RSYNC method of APT (as Goswin pointed
zhaoway> out), or just seperate Descriptions out (as I pointed out
zhaoway> and you got it too), nearly 66% of the bits are
zhaoway> saved. But this is only a hack, albeit efficient.

 > At the risk of getting flamed, I investigated the possibility
 > of writing an apt-get method to support rsync. I would use this
 > to access an already existing private mirror, and not the main
 > Debian archive. Hence the server load issue is not a
 > problem. The only problem I have is downloading several megs of
 > index files every time I want to install a new package (often
 > under 100kb) from unstable, over a volume charged 28.8 kbps PPP
 > link, using apt-get[1].

I tried the same, but I used the copy method as template, which is
rather bad. Should have used http as starting point.

Can you send me your patch please.

 > I think (if I understand correctly) that I found three problems
 > with the design of apt-get:

 > 1. It tries to down-load the compressed Packages file, and has
 > no way to override it with the uncompressed file. I filed a bug
 > report against apt-get on this, as I believe this will also be
 > a problem with protocols like rproxy too.

 > 2. apt-get tries to be smart and passes the method a
 > destination file name that is only a temporary file, and not
 > the final file. Hence, rsync cannot make a comparison between
 > local and remote versions of the file.

I wrote to the deity mailinglist concerning those two problems with 2
possible sollution. Till now the only answere I got was "NO we don't
want rsync" after pressing the issue here on debian-devel.

 > 3. Instead, rsync creates its own temporary file while
 > downloading, so apt-get cannot display the progress of the
 > download operation because as far as it is concerned the
 > destination file is still empty.

Hmm, isn't there a informational message you can output to hint of the
progress? We would have to patch rsync to generate that style of
progress output or fork and parse the output of rsync and pass on
altered output.

 > I think the only way to fix both 2 and 3 is to allow some
 > coordination between apt-get and rsync where to put the
 > temporary file and where to find the previous version of the
 > file.

Doing some more thinking I like the second solution to the problem
more and more:

1. Include a template (some file that apt-get thinks matches best) in
the fetch request. The rsync method can then copy that file to the
destination and rsync on it. This would be the uncompressed Packages
file or a previous deb or the old source.

2. return wheather the file is compressed or not simply by passing
back the destination filename with the appropriate extension (.gz). So
the destination filename is altered to reflect the fileformat.

MfG
Goswin

Re: Proposal: Reorganizing Python for Python 2.0

[calvin]

Hello,

>   * we make /usr/bin/python point to python 2 thanks to alternatives
>   * we run a compileall.py in python/site-packages in order to
> get them byte-recompiled for 2.0
From the Python news file:
- Python bytecode files (*.pyc and *.pyo) are not compatible between
releases.

Now what if you install Python 2.0 and then call /usr/bin/python15?
This will use the newly-compiled .pyc files which are incompatible.

Bastian Kleineidam


pgpDestWj2Ani.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: IBM MWAVE multifunction card

[Michelle Konzack]

Hello,

I habe a miro MWAVE Connect 34 (SB kompatibel Soundcard + V.34 modem)
And I have tried to get them running under Linux... without success.

The MWAVE card using generaly the sofware wavetable and it is not disponibel 
under Linux. An hardware wavetable is unfortunately not availlable.

Michelle


Am 23:03 09.01.2001 +, Adrian Bridgett habt Ihr geschrieben:
MK>
MK>On Mon, Jan  8, 2001 at 21:49:17 -0800 (+), Ernest Tucker wrote:
MK>> I have an aptiva 2144-m51 with an mwave card.  I read
MK>> the incompatibility list.  If I boot the card under
MK>> win95 or dos7 and then soft boot to linux is there a
MK>> driver somewhere that will use the card?  I think it
MK>> has Sound Blaster compatibility as far as the port
MK>> drivers are concerned.
MK>
MK>I doubt it.  IBM has (finally) release MWave drivers for certain thinkpads,
MK>but I doubt these will work on your PC:
MK>
MK>http://oss.software.ibm.com/developer/opensource/linux/projects/mwave/
MK>
MK>Adrian
MK>
MK>Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MK>Windows NT - Unix in beta-testing. GPG/PGP keys available on public key
servers
MK>Debian GNU/Linux  -*-  By professionals for professionals  -*-
www.debian.org
MK>
MK>
MK> ##  Get the Power of Debian/GNU-Linux  ##
-- 
Don't cc: me on mailinglists, I'm subscribed, if I write there.

Linux rebootet man in drei Fällen: 
Neuer Kernel, neue (Board-)Hardware, Stromausfall

Aber Windows rebootet man auch in drei Fällen: 
Schutzverletzung, Bluescreen, keinen Bock...

Re: IBM MWAVE multifunction card

[Adrian Bridgett]

On Mon, Jan  8, 2001 at 21:49:17 -0800 (+), Ernest Tucker wrote:
> I have an aptiva 2144-m51 with an mwave card.  I read
> the incompatibility list.  If I boot the card under
> win95 or dos7 and then soft boot to linux is there a
> driver somewhere that will use the card?  I think it
> has Sound Blaster compatibility as far as the port
> drivers are concerned.

I doubt it.  IBM has (finally) release MWave drivers for certain thinkpads,
but I doubt these will work on your PC:

http://oss.software.ibm.com/developer/opensource/linux/projects/mwave/

Adrian

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Windows NT - Unix in beta-testing. GPG/PGP keys available on public key servers
Debian GNU/Linux  -*-  By professionals for professionals  -*-  www.debian.org

Re: debian-devel-digest Digest V101 #59

[mheyes]

Really really nice!






[EMAIL PROTECTED] on 01/10/2001 01:29:39 PM

Please respond to debian-devel@lists.debian.org

To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc:

Subject:  debian-devel-digest Digest V101 #59


Content-Type: text/plain

debian-devel-digest DigestVolume 101 : Issue 59

Today's Topics:
  ´ó½¹«°²¾«Ó¢¶Ô¹«°²Ôü×ÓµÄÑÏÕýͨ¸æ  [ "sa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ]
  Re: lynx 2.8.4dev.16 --with-ssl   [ Joseph Carter
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ]

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 01:42:16 +0800
From: "sa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, ,

Subject: ´ó½¹«°²¾«Ó¢¶Ô¹«°²Ôü×ÓµÄÑÏÕýͨ¸æ
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312"

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Re: Solving the compression dilema when rsync-ing Debian versions

[Andrew Lenharth]

> > No, this won't work with very many compression algorithms.  Most
> > algorithms update their dictionaries/probability tables dynamically based
> > on input.  There isn't just one static table that could be used for
> > another file, since the table is automatically updated after every (or
> > near every) transmitted or decoded symbol.  Further, the algorithms start
> > with blank tables on both ends (compression and decompression), the
> > algorithm doesn't transmit the tables (which can be quite large for higher
> > order statistical models).
> > 
> Well the table is perfectly static when the compression ends. Even if
> the table isn't transmitted itself, its information is contained in the
> compressed file, otherwise the file couldn't be decompressed either. 

But the tables you have at the end of the compression are NOT what you
want to use for the entire process.  The point of a dynamic table is to
allow the probabilities of different symbols to change dynamically as the
compression happens.  The tables used by the end of the file may be very
different than those used early in the file, to the point where they are
useless for the early part of the file.

Without fear of sounding redundent, EACH symbol is encoded with a
different set of tables.  That is the probability tables or dictionaries
are different for EACH and EVERY character of the file.  And as I said
before, the tables from latter in the compression (which you propose
using all the time) will not even generate the same compressed file as the
one they are based on nor will they be anywhere near optimal for the file.
That is, "gzip --compress-like=foo.gz foo" would generate a entirely
different foo.gz than "gzip foo" would.

I really suggets you investigate LZW based algorithms.  You would find
they do not behave as you think.  Only incredibly simple static
compression algorithms have the properties you desire.

Andrew Lenharth

Re: lynx 2.8.4dev.16 --with-ssl

[Joseph Carter]

On Tue, Jan 02, 2001 at 02:44:16PM +, Colin Watson wrote:
> >Since ssl support (configure --with-ssl) is now integrated in the main
> >lynx source, will lynx-ssl be obsolete? And will lynx has to go to
> >non-US? Or do we still need separate version?
> 
> Since lynx is GPLed, surely we shouldn't be linking it to OpenSSL at
> all? :( (Unless there's an exception I'm not aware of ...)

AFAIK, there isn't.  =(

-- 
Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Free software developer

 come on
 it's a pico clone
 it's *meant* to be annoying



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不能对人民实行专政

――致全国公安干警、武警的一封公开信

李克江

我是一名有四十多年工龄的老公安，亲身经历了发生在中国大地上的大小运动，遭遇过
社会的各种问题，工作带来的欣慰和愧疚都曾有过。现在，看到发生在眼前的这场轰轰
烈烈的清理气功的政治运动，看到咱们公安在其中横冲直撞，不由不使人想起作为专政
工具的我们，在过去执行错误路线后所遭受的身败名裂和良心谴责。我不能不向广大的
公安干警――我的同行们道出我的肺腑之言。

当前的这场斗争，无论从表面上看还是从手段来看，比过去的“三反五反”都有过之而
无不及。那时即便是抓人，也不是全国范围内的随意乱抓，也得先按照一定的法律程
序，由法院审判了再由我们公安部门执行。而现在抓人根本不必由法院裁定，就凭党中
央直接发文下令，说抓谁就抓谁，公安部门作为应声工具执令。既不“以法”，也不
“依法”，而是党说了算。这究竟置国法于何处？更有甚者，见到练功者就抓，就抄，
就封，就打！真令人既痛心又担心。

法轮功，说到底也只是练功人在心灵上的寄托，是信仰上的选择。信仰，既有传统的，
又有新创的。这是宇宙赋予人类的一种本能活动，是人的权利，谁也无权干预。不能因
为是共产党执政，就得要求全体人民都信仰共产主义，奉行党的宗旨。这未免也太霸道
了。作为党员，执行党章，是他的责任和义务，责无旁贷。但用一党的章程替代国家宪
法，以党代政，这是一种专制政治，是历史的倒退。邓小平领导下取得的改革成果被一
下子给砸得粉碎，改革开放二十年来的大好局面一下子倒退到文革，甚至退得更远。文
革至少还没有动用专政工具在全国范围内大面积抓人。

对法轮功的批判，我觉得有些地方明显地不对劲，难以服人。说他们七年来练功练死了
700多人，平均每年死100多人，不管这个数目是不是真实的，如果这一条就够得上给人
家定为邪教的话，那去年尉建行亲口披露的由于我们党和政府的各级干部的违法施政造
成一年内死亡13000人的事实，又该怎么看？是法轮功死亡人数的100多倍呀！如果照这
个逻辑推的话，那我们的党不也就成了邪教而应予以否定和取缔吗？再说国家关于恶性
事故的判别是有标准的，得超过千分之三才算超标，而法轮功的恶性事故率才在千万分
之三点五（按国家公布的200万法轮功学员计算），是国家标准的万分之一，这比国家
医疗部门的恶性事故低一万倍，也比国家政治恶性事故低一万余倍。

不知大家感受到没有，在这第二次文革中，我们公安又摊上了扮演一个不光彩的角色的
使命。当我们坚决地镇压邪恶势力危害社会的活动，打击刑事犯罪份子时，人民拥护我
们，赞颂我们，尊敬我们；而这一次，人民是在用什么目光看我们啊！他们见了我们就
躲着走，又怕又恨；说我们警察比国民党还国民党，说江总书记比法西斯还法西斯；骂
我们狐假虎威、为虎作伥、欺压百姓；骂我们拿着税民的血汗钱，穿着人民的血汗衣，
却恩将仇报，镇压衣食父母，要遭天谴；他们给我们的干警暗中打红豆黑豆，要以后算
总帐。这也难怪他们，老百姓的日子真够苦的了，哪家没有一两个失业（下岗）的？还
要折腾他们，能有好气？

有些年轻的公安干警，没经历过政治运动，不知天高地厚，成天耀武扬威，图一时痛
快，不计后果，不留余地，弄得全国上下鸡犬不宁，民怨沸腾。有个年轻干警只因一位
被抓的女法轮功学员不交出功法资料，就用烟头把人家的胳膊烫得伤痕斑斑；有个干警
对关押的法轮功学员任意体罚，把他看不顺眼的拖到烈日下曝晒，拳打脚踢，直到打累
了才住手，然后得意地狂笑：“真过瘾！好久没这样痛快地打了！”还有两个年轻干警
就在天安门人民英雄纪念碑下，抓住一位年仅20岁左右的姑娘当场就拖住胳膊左右开
弓，拳脚相加，引起过路群众的强烈谴责；有的地方干警将抓住的练功学员集中关押，
12小时不让上厕所，30小时才让吃饭，每人交200～1200元罚款才让走人。这样违法执
法的现象太多了，一位80岁的老人老泪纵横地对我说：“我第一次亲眼看到咱们的警察
这样地打人民群众……”；一位老知识分子悲愤地问道：“苍天呀！这些人怎么了？人
们的良心、理性到哪儿去了？!道德何在？！天理何在？！”我是过来人，感到问题严
重极了。物极必反，照此状况发展下去，后果不堪设想。我要告诉大家的是，历史的教
训不能不汲取！要为自己留条后路。

文革那阵的左派当时是多么得意，打、砸、抢，不可一世。十年后呢？有的成了阶下
囚，有的受人唾弃抬不起头。

所以，我劝大家严肃地、认真地想一想：当执行镇压人民的任务时，我们该怎么办？

虽然我们是专政的工具，端的是“公安”和“武警”的饭碗，不能不执令，但是干法有
深有浅，有真有假。因为，我们首先应该是一个有良心的人。我们是国家的执法部门，
应该维护国家宪法不遭受践踏，维护人民利益不受侵犯。在不得不执行恶法时，要能给
人民留条活路就留条活路，也是给自己留条活路，俗话说：与人方便与己方便。不能公
开支持受压迫者，就暗中给予同情，网开一面，多积点德。同行们，不要不分青红皂白
地为专制政权尽忠尽职了，更不能为虎作伥，助纣为虐。要知道，善有善报，恶有恶
报，不是不报，时候未到，时候一到，一定全报。

任何事情都会随着时间的推移过去。对气功的镇压肯定是经不起历史的考验的。不要只
看到现在这么铺天盖地，惊心动魄，到头来这段历史肯定会重新评说。

希望到那时，你能够说：我的所作所为没有违背良心，我没有做对不起人民的事。甚至
能够说：我给了人民以全力的帮助。



给年轻警官的一封信

老友：古人说：“哀莫大于心死”，我认为：“哀莫大于自己的政治信仰破灭！”这比
心死还可怕。

你曾欣赏我的血气方刚、见义勇为的性格；羡慕我志得意满的运气。可是，如今这些曾
使我骄傲的东西却使我痛苦万分，无力自拔！

你是知道我的，从小就立志要当一个护国护民的堂堂警官，头戴大盖帽，身着警官服，
国徽头上顶，惩恶扬善，匡扶正义，在司法界轰轰烈烈地建功立业。命运对我也特别关
照，高中毕业后就考上了公安大学；大学毕业后，先后到了几个省的基层实习，在打击
不法犯罪份子斗争中屡立大功。现在本市当上了市公安局刑警大队长，可谓一路春风得
意。尽管在工作实践中，也碰到了许多在大学里在书本上找不到答案的问题，比如，党
内干部尤其是领导干部的特权意识和特权行为十分严重的问题；党组织和党的领导干部
的意志常凌驾于法律之上，干扰法律的情况十分严重的问题；各级党委、政府的干部严
重贪污腐化制止不力的问题；尤其在公、检、法、司界出现的上层干部的贪赃枉法问
题，有的高级司法干部贪污上千万元甚至上亿元，令人触目惊心；以及对持不同政见人
士的严厉打击已超过宪法规定的严重问题；但我还是相信了党的宣传，认为这仅是个别
现象，是改革进程中必然会出现的一些问题，总会逐步得到纠正和清除的。

可是，从7月20日接到紧急命令参予了全国上下的打击法轮功运动以来，我的心就一直
没有安宁过！我想不通，江总书记为什么竟重操早在二十二年前就被历史和全国人民唾
弃了的毛泽东首创的文革手法，甚至有过之而无不及？为什么不惜破坏我国安定团结的
局面，发动铺天盖地的全党、全军、全民共诛气功界，挑战、扫荡中国传统文化，开展
唯物主义批判唯心论的政治大斗争？尤其令人不解和痛心的就是他们肆意践踏宪法，而
我竟也不得不违心地违法执法。宪法，这可是我视为神圣无上的国家大法，并誓用生命
和鲜血捍卫的东西啊！

一部宪法，我能倒背如流，我已将保卫它溶入到我的神圣职责之中。

宪法第二章第35条明文规定：中华人民共和国公民有言论、出版、集会、结社、游行、
示威的自由。第37条明文规定：中华人民共和国公民的人身自由不受侵犯，任何公民，
非经人民检察院批准或者决定或者人民法院决定，并由公安机关执行，不受逮捕；禁止
非法拘禁和经其它方法剥夺或者限制公民的人身自由，禁止非法搜查公民的身体。第38
条明文规定：中华人民共和国公民的人格尊严不受侵犯。禁止用任何方法对公民进行侮
辱、诽谤、陷害。第39条明文规定：中华人民共和国公民的住宅不受侵犯。禁止非法搜
查或者非法侵入公民的住宅。江泽民总书记曾代表我国在联合国人权公约上签字，联合
国《公民及政治权利国际盟约》的第18条也明文规定：人人有思想、信仰、及宗教之自
由。第19条第一款也明文规定：人人有保持意见不受干预之权利。第二款：人人有发表
自由之权利，此种权利包括以语言、文字或出版物、艺术或自己选择的其他方式，不分
国界，寻求、接受及传播各种消息及思想之自由。

可是，如今却逼着我去践踏它，亵渎它，咱们的作法实在太离谱、太触目惊心，太令人
羞愧难当了。动用所有宣传舆论工具去批判气功功法，却不给人家丁点说话分辩的权利
；动用上百万武警和公安肆无忌惮地抓捕、打骂、封杀手无寸铁的民间练气功人士和团
体，而且既不经检察院批准，也没经法院判决，就凭一党的指令，我公安机关就得违法
执行。甚至对其所谓骨干判刑，竟不许找辩护律师为之出庭辩护。文革也只是提出抓反
革命，还没大肆抓捕练功的人！连对罪大恶极的“四人帮”公开审判时，也允许指定辩
护律师为其辩护。而现在，竟创下了建国50年来非法执法之最！见练功的就抓、就打，
就抄家，不仅抓本人，还要抓其家属、抓其亲朋好友，搞封建专制的株连九族；任意砸
掉人家的饭碗，抢东西，不让人说话，哪儿还有半点民主政治的气息？！

民主政治，是以公意为根据，以法律为准绳，人民有参予国事或对国事有自由发表意见
的权利，如有违反公意的法律，政府当局应负责任。而现在我国实行的政治，明显是一
人和一党为实现自己的目标独揽国家权力，不受任何约束的专制政治，甚至掺杂特务政
治！我的心冷到了极点。如果说刚开始我还能以自己善良之心，去假设这是单位个别领
导受极左思潮作祟，搞扩大化。但当我明确知道了这是公安部贾春旺部长在亲自指挥，
由总书记江泽民亲自部署的这场政治斗争时，老友啊，我还能自欺欺人、装聋作哑吗？
百姓用血汗养育着我们这三百万公安、四百万武警，是希望我们能保卫他们，使他们安
居乐业，使国泰民安，可现在要我们反过来，去镇压我们的衣食父母，天理何在？每当
我看到他们射向我们公安干警那仇视的目光时，我的心里在打颤、在流血！

这一个多月来，我想了很多，也学了不少。你知道，我对气功原本是不感兴趣的。可是
卷进这场政治运动后，我开始用新的眼光审视它了。这段时间里，我反复研究了新闻舆
论界的批判性文章，千篇一律的表态让人感到中国政吏的奴性；一些老牌“揭伪”斗
士，加上一些名不见经传的文人墨客，他们纷纷粉墨登场，鹦鹉学舌，陈词烂调，无法
自圆其说的批判，令人感到像吃了一只绿苍蝇，恶心得无法吐出；反倒是那些著名的科
学家、大知识分子绝大多数都保持了沉默，既不表示对党中央发起的这场斗争的看法，
也不批判法轮功。本市一名著名的作家朋友曾私下里和我说：他本人不相信法轮功，但
他决不在这个时候站出来批判法轮功，因为现在当局对法轮功是采取的政治镇压，自己
参与进去，不就成了官方压制言论的工具了吗？落井下石，太不光彩！丧失了做人的气
节，何况，针对上千万人的大镇压，肯定又是一个大冤案，迟早要受到法律的清算！老
友啊，他的一席铮铮之语狠狠地剌激了我，一介书生尚有此气节，我堂堂七尺执法干警
竟无胆量站出来为维护法律的尊严，为维护人民的权利说话！实在无地自容！

痛定思痛，我将最近搜缴来的各主要门派的气功资料认真地进行了研读，虽然有些论点
不敢苟同，有些内容确属无稽之谈；可是在里面我发现了真理之光。从那些深入浅出的
论述中，我似乎明白了为什么当局要不遗余力地封杀中国传统文化。

原来鲁迅先生早就提出，中国文化的根柢全在道教。而道家的精髓，则是古代的人体炼
养技术，对人类长生道路的追求。现在气功界里已有了超越古人的突破，远远超过了马
克思主义哲学的三大规律。尤其精彩的部分就是被现代人称之为“心物辩证法”部分，
这部分全面论述了宇宙的精神与物质之间的关系，是宇宙全维观的认识论和方法论。这
自然是坚持马列主义的执政党难以相容的。这些材料里还有大量的用气功进行实证实修
的范例，它们从实践的角度证明了以上理论的正确性，从生命科学的角度掘了马列主

Re: Bug#81823: incorrect dependency

[Mariusz Przygodzki]

On Wednesday 10 January 2001 16:39, Dr. Guenter Bechly wrote:
> Package: glademm
> Version: N/A; reported 2001-01-10
> Severity: important

> glademm recommends glade, but glade conflicts with glade-gnome, thus
> glademm cannot be installed together with glade-gnome. The correct
> dependency should be that glademm recommends glade OR glade-gnome!!!

glademm recommends glade
glade conflicts with glade-gnome
glade-gnome conflicts, provides and replaces glade

conclusion: glademm can be installed together with glade-gnome

-- 
Mariusz Przygodzki|  Good judgement comes from experience.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  |  Experience comes from bad judgement.
http://www.dune.home.pl   |
GPG KeyID: 0x42FAD771 
GPG Fingerprint: 1990 F07B FFB4 BE0B FF26 10C2 BE2B 965C 42FA D771

Re: Developer Behavior

[Petr Cech]

On Wed, Jan 10, 2001 at 07:55:04AM -0700 , John Galt wrote:
> Of course, the .conf in lilo.conf implies that packages really shouldn't
> futz with it without warning.  I really don't remember a exception in

yes. though lilo.conf is always autogenerated - either by boot floppies or
by liloconfig (sp?).

anyway - use grub :)
Petr Cech
-- 
Debian GNU/Linux maintainer - www.debian.{org,cz}
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Obviously the only rational solution to your problem is suicide.

Bug#81769: Addition to "Does not boot from CD-Rom"

[ecky]

Again something strange:

I get the system booting from CD-Rom if I modify the boot
option with the SCSI-BIOS setup tools that ship with the
controller. This just does not work as expected. Before I set
the device ID which should be booted to the ID of the CD-Rom
which did not work out. Now, just accidently, i set the ID to
n+1 (ID of CD-Rom was 4 = n, so n+1=5) and it works.
What's that - certainly a workaround :-) but nevertheless strange!

cheers
ecky

Re: PERL MAINTAINERS SUCK - COMPLETE MORONS

[Ola Lundqvist]

On Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 04:06:35PM -0800, Ralph Jennings wrote:

The problem is not that easy to solve I think. Basicly the problem is
that you upgrade a tool that the install program depends on. If you install
the perl-5.6 package before anything alse things will probably work just
fine.

The problem as I have encounterd it is that packages got removed before
(including some old perl packages) perl-5.6 is (fully) installed.
If that happens perl will not work properly and everything will fail. So
you have to install all the perl stuff manually and then things work just
fine.

I think the problem is with apt, not perl itself.

// Ola

-- 
 - Ola Lundqvist ---
/  [EMAIL PROTECTED] Björnkärrsgatan 5 A.11   \
|  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 584 36 LINKÖPING |
|  +46 (0)13-17 69 83  +46 (0)70-332 1551   |
|  http://www.opal.dhs.org UIN/icq: 4912500 |
\  gpg/f.p.: 7090 A92B 18FE 7994 0C36  4FE4 18A1 B1CF 0FE5 3DD9 /
 ---

Re: Developer Behavior

[Russell Coker]

On Thursday 11 January 2001 01:55, John Galt wrote:
> >> > 1)  This situation does not stop a running machine from working, it
> >> > will only stop it from booting.
> >>
> >> Oh, well, as long as THAT'S all it is...
> >
> >The thing is that a machine that can't load the correct kernel can be
> > easily fixed, just use another machine to dd a kernel to a floppy.
> >
> >A machine which boots up but which has broken keyboard mapping or broken
> > NSS is much more effort to fix.
> >
> >Also if you have something like NSS break on you then you can logout and
> > then when you realise that you've done the wrong thing it's too late,
> > you're machine is stuffed because you can't login as root again!  If your
> > lilo.conf is wrong then you have between now and your next reboot to fix
> > it.
>
> Of course, the .conf in lilo.conf implies that packages really shouldn't
> futz with it without warning.  I really don't remember a exception in
> policy for things that are correctable before next reboot.

I never said that it's desirable behaviour.  I am working on fixing it ASAP!

I am just saying that there are many more serious things that can go wrong 
and which have gone wrong for me while tracking unstable.

-- 
http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark
http://www.coker.com.au/postal/   Postal SMTP/POP benchmark
http://www.coker.com.au/projects.html Projects I am working on
http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page

Re: Developer Behavior

[John Galt]

On Thu, 11 Jan 2001, Russell Coker wrote:

>On Wednesday 10 January 2001 03:23, Branden Robinson wrote:
>> On Wed, Jan 10, 2001 at 02:34:39AM +1100, Russell Coker wrote:
>> > 1)  This situation does not stop a running machine from working, it will
>> > only stop it from booting.
>>
>> Oh, well, as long as THAT'S all it is...
>
>The thing is that a machine that can't load the correct kernel can be easily 
>fixed, just use another machine to dd a kernel to a floppy.
>
>A machine which boots up but which has broken keyboard mapping or broken NSS 
>is much more effort to fix.
>
>Also if you have something like NSS break on you then you can logout and then 
>when you realise that you've done the wrong thing it's too late, you're 
>machine is stuffed because you can't login as root again!  If your lilo.conf 
>is wrong then you have between now and your next reboot to fix it.

Of course, the .conf in lilo.conf implies that packages really shouldn't
futz with it without warning.  I really don't remember a exception in
policy for things that are correctable before next reboot.

>

-- 
Pardon me, but you have obviously mistaken me for someone who gives a
damn.
email [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Bugs about new upstream versions

[Marcelo E. Magallon]

>> Lars Wirzenius <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

 > Most packages are maintained by developers who are getting their job done
 > properly. They will notice the new upstream version and will update the
 > bug as soon as they can. Filing bugs will only take up their time.

 Let me put it this way: if I get a bug report that says "foobar 0.2 came
 out this morning" its only effect will be to delay the release of a 
 debian package by at least a couple of days.  OTOH, if it says "foobar
 0.2 is been out for a couple of months now" you'll probably get a friendly
 message thanking you for the reminder and possibly a package within 24
 hours.

 In other words: stop pestering Myth about a new mozilla package unless
 you want to have a package next year.

--
Marcelo

Re: RTP: Stegfs

[Andreas Schuldei]

* Andreas Schuldei ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [010108 00:35]:
> The main author seems to have abandoned it. The last available patch is
> against 2.2.14, and some kernel interfaces changed since then. Some
> conceptional finetuning and additional features would be nice, too. 

This is not correct. The author is alive and well and is working on stegfs.

Re: Developer Behavior

[Branden Robinson]

On Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 12:54:08AM +1100, Russell Coker wrote:

> From: Russell Coker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Branden Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
debian-devel@lists.debian.org

This was CC'ed to me why, exactly?

-- 
G. Branden Robinson |   Religion is something left over from the
Debian GNU/Linux|   infancy of our intelligence; it will
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  |   fade away as we adopt reason and science
http://www.debian.org/~branden/ |   as our guidelines.  -- Bertrand Russell


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ITP: phpGroupWare -- Web based GroupWare application

[Luca De_Vitis]

 Package: wnpp
 Severity: wishlist

phpGroupWare is a web based GroupWare system. It comes with serveral core apps
for email, calendar, todo list, address book, file manager, and a notepad. 

It also provides a framework for add-on applications to integrate seamlessly
in phpGroupWare. Some samples are a bookmark manager, a trouble ticket system,
a weather reporter, a phone log, a chat program, and a forum system. There are
many more in development, and you can develop your own as well. 

homepage: http://www.phpgroupware.org
licence: GNU GPL
-- 
Luca - De Whiskey's - De Vitis
Undergraduate Student of Computer Science at Bologna University.
aliases: Luca ^De [A-Z][A-Za-z\-]*[iy]'\?s$
e-mail: devitis at (students dot )?cs dot unibo dot it
homepage: http://www.Students.CS.UniBO.IT/~devitis
anti SPAM: s/\ dot\ /./ , s/ at /@/  && solve_regex(e-mail)

Re: PERL MAINTAINERS SUCK - COMPLETE MORONS

[Daniel Martin]

Matt Zimmerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Well, if someone would like to configure the MTA that runs bugs.debian.org to
> send CC's of all bug mail to another address, ...

You mean something other than signing up for debian-bugs-dist and
parsing the resulting traffic?

I realize that debian-bugs-dist isn't the same as getting the _input_
to the BTS, but if you want to maintain the same bug tracking numbers
you'll want the BTS to process the mail first in any case.

Re: devfsd also (was: NMU of sitecopy ?)

[Russell Coker]

On Wednesday 10 January 2001 06:40, Brian Frederick Kimball wrote:
> The devfsd package could also use an NMU or two.  It has apparently been
> ignored by Tom Lee for months.  Almost all of its bugs appear to be
> fairly trivial, and he's only responded to one of the 11 open bugs (and
> that response was three months ago).
>
> I'm not trying to 'dis' Tom; he may very well have good reasons for his
> current withdrawal from debian.  Its just that SOMETHING needs to be
> done with his packages.

Currently I have enough work to do.  In about a month's time I will be 
prepared to take over the devfsd package as it's an area that I am interested 
in (and it shouldn't be too difficult to maintain - I don't anticipate the 
need to make any major changes).

If someone else wants to do it then I'd be happy to send them patches and to 
test out new versions before they release them.

In this case I am not interested in doing NMU's.  I'll either take it over in 
Feb (if Tom is willing to give it to me and no better qualified person 
volunteers) or send patches and do testing for whoever is maintaining it at 
that time.

-- 
http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark
http://www.coker.com.au/postal/   Postal SMTP/POP benchmark
http://www.coker.com.au/projects.html Projects I am working on
http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page

Re: Developer Behavior

[Russell Coker]

On Wednesday 10 January 2001 03:23, Branden Robinson wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 10, 2001 at 02:34:39AM +1100, Russell Coker wrote:
> > 1)  This situation does not stop a running machine from working, it will
> > only stop it from booting.
>
> Oh, well, as long as THAT'S all it is...

The thing is that a machine that can't load the correct kernel can be easily 
fixed, just use another machine to dd a kernel to a floppy.

A machine which boots up but which has broken keyboard mapping or broken NSS 
is much more effort to fix.

Also if you have something like NSS break on you then you can logout and then 
when you realise that you've done the wrong thing it's too late, you're 
machine is stuffed because you can't login as root again!  If your lilo.conf 
is wrong then you have between now and your next reboot to fix it.

-- 
http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark
http://www.coker.com.au/postal/   Postal SMTP/POP benchmark
http://www.coker.com.au/projects.html Projects I am working on
http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page

Re: mozilla 0.7

[Jordi Mallach]

On Wed, Jan 10, 2001 at 02:26:42PM +0100, Arjan Drieman wrote:
> Is it recommended to send bug reports about new releases in general?  Or
> is it recommended not to?

I'd say it's not bad if it's been out for a LONG time and the packages
haven't been updated for ages.
But I don't think the day after a release someone should be filing bugs, no.

-- 
Jordi Mallach Pérez || [EMAIL PROTECTED] || Rediscovering Freedom,
   aka Oskuro in|| [EMAIL PROTECTED]  || Using Debian GNU/Linux
 Reinos de Leyenda  || [EMAIL PROTECTED]  || http://debian.org

http://sindominio.net  GnuPG public information:  pub  1024D/917A225E 
telnet pusa.uv.es 23   73ED 4244 FD43 5886 20AC  2644 2584 94BA 917A 225E


pgpEVTnigiCXJ.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: mozilla 0.7

[Arjan Drieman]

In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Brian Almeida wrote:
>> I filed a bug report about the new mozilla 0.7 release. It looks
>> like it's got PSM built in so it will comfort a lot of people.
>> It would be highly appreciated if you could give it a whirl.
>.%( WhoIs: MythDead
>:%( address  : [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>:%( away : Yes, I know its out, leave me the fuck alone 
>
>Bad move...

Is it recommended to send bug reports about new releases in general?  Or
is it recommended not to?


Arjan

Re: mozilla 0.7

[Brian Almeida]

On Wed, Jan 10, 2001 at 03:13:28PM +0200, Eray 'exa' Ozkural wrote:
> I filed a bug report about the new mozilla 0.7 release. It looks
> like it's got PSM built in so it will comfort a lot of people.
> It would be highly appreciated if you could give it a whirl.
.%( WhoIs: MythDead
:%( address  : [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
:%( away : Yes, I know its out, leave me the fuck alone 

Bad move...

-- 
Brian Almeida  | http://people.debian.org/~bma
Debian Developer   | [EMAIL PROTECTED]

mozilla 0.7

[Eray 'exa' Ozkural]

Hi Myth and all,

I filed a bug report about the new mozilla 0.7 release. It looks
like it's got PSM built in so it will comfort a lot of people.
It would be highly appreciated if you could give it a whirl.

Regards,

__
Eray

Re: limitation in build-depends

[Julian Gilbey]

On Wed, Jan 10, 2001 at 03:12:42PM +1100, Brian May wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> The build-depends is limited when it comes to compiling a package
> based on a number of different and incompatible libraries.
> 
> Take Kerberos for an example - it has two implementations MIT and
> Heimdal. Currently, this requires two separate source packages, in
> order to set the build-depends correctly. This is despite the fact
> that most of the code is exactly the same.
> [...]

So if you only have one source package, you would have to run the
debian/rules build rule *twice*, once for each different set of
installed libraries to make the binary packages.  My understanding of
the build system is that all binary packages are required to be built
from a single run of debian/rules build.  Otherwise craziness ensues
for the autobuilders.  I would recommend for these few isolated
instances that two separate (essentially identical) source packages
would be sensible.  If this starts becoming a common issue, it might
be worth investigating further.

(NB It might be worth then putting a check into the package build that
the correct library is installed.  You may well have already done
this, though.)

   Julian

-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

 Julian Gilbey, Dept of Maths, Queen Mary, Univ. of London
   Debian GNU/Linux Developer,  see http://people.debian.org/~jdg
  Donate free food to the world's hungry: see http://www.thehungersite.com/

Bug#81769: Does not boot from CD-Rom

[ecky]

Package: General
Version: 2.2

When I try to boot from CD on my SCSI system it does only
boot, when CD-Rom is the SCSI device with the highest priority.
In this case it does not boot from the hard-drive. Do I switch
the SCSI IDs it boots from the harddrive but not from CD-Rom.
In case the hard-drive has no boot-sector system hangs up, even
though the bootable CD is in and detected. One might think that
it is a SCSI problem, but however it works out with a Win2000
CD (it does boot on any ID). Strange, what's the problem here?

I'm using adaptec AHA-2940UW with pentium system (Award
Bios). All devices are conected to the narrow (50pin) bus.
current ID-setup: HD1 01, HD2 02, CD-Rom 04, Jaz 05,
Tape 06. Termination on Host and tape (last on chain & cable).
The CD-Set I try to install is Debian 2.2 "Joel 'Espy' Klecker"
Release

ecky

Re: 'export RESOLV_HOST_CONF= any file you want' local vulnerability

[Hamish Moffatt]

On Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 07:19:53PM -0500, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> I assume its purpose is to allow different resolver settings to be used with
> individual programs.  For instance, perhaps one program should use DNS, while
> another NIS, and still another only the local hosts file for name resolution.
> For some programs, setting 'nospoof' will improve security; for others, it 
> will
> just cause some lookups to fail needlessly.

How does resolv.conf let you specify that? According to resolv.conf(5),
resolv.conf is used for DNS only (which is what I always thought).
You could accomplish the above if you could override /etc/nsswitch.conf
though.

There's probably some nasties in this option somewhere.

Hamish
-- 
Hamish Moffatt VK3SB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: Creeping featuritis (was: Re: tar -I incompatibility)

[Hamish Moffatt]

On Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 06:23:44PM -0500, Jacob Kuntz wrote:
> from the secret journal of Sam Couter ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> > No it's not. It does one thing (Advanced Package Management), and does it
> > fairly well. Just because the thing it does is a complex task doesn't mean
> > it's got creeping featuritis. If it tried to do more than just package
> > management, that would be a different story.
> 
> right, like if it tried to read mail or interpert lisp (which are the
> primary indicators of featuritis).

I fail to see how these examples demonstrate that bzip2 options
on tar are creeping featuritis. If anything, it demonstrates that
it is not. It's not as if tar has bzip2/gzip built in.


Hamish
-- 
Hamish Moffatt VK3SB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Amaya still maintained ?

[Gregor Hoffleit]

Hi Steve,

are you still maintaining amaya ? The package is very much out of date
(3.2.1-1 is in sid, while upstream is now at 4.2.1, which has significant
improvements). 

The BTS lists three bugs reports regarding new upstream versions, and you
didn't even reply to any of them.


db.debian.org lists no date for your last occurrence on a Debian list; my
search gave that you made an upload of pump on Oct 22, so I guess you're
still with the project.

If I don't get a reply to this mail, I think I'll go on and make an NMU of
amaya with the most recent upstream version.


Gregor

Re: tar -I incompatibility

[Peter Samuelson]

[cas]
> on every non-linux machine i have to use, the first thing i do is
> download and compile all the GNU tools including tar.  i then change
> the PATH setting to include /usr/local/bin/gnu at the start.

I used to do that, but then I got burned by 'df'.  Debugging that one
involved wading through pages and pages of very poorly written vendor
ksh scripts, so I guess I learned my lesson.

(In defense of GNU fileutils, I don't think I've seen any two Unix
versions of df with compatible output either.  The HP-UX 11 output is
truly, ahem, interesting.)

I've also been hit once trying to use bash as a root login shell.  Some
scripts that come with proprietary software actually don't have #!
lines at the top, they just assume ksh.  Oops.

Yes, for the most part you can drop GNU utilities right in.  But I no
longer put them in front of the path for root or other system-oriented
accounts.

Peter

Re: Path modification

[Philip Blundell]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Jon Eisenstein wr
ites:
>I recently filed a bug report (80092) against the nmh package regarding
>the location of its program files. It installs files into /usr/bin/mh,
>which isn't in the path, making running the program difficult until the
>reason is found.

The nmh manual page is quite explicit about this:

   To get started using nmh, put the directory /usr/bin/mh on
   your  $PATH.  This is best done in one of the files: .pro­
   file, .login, or .cshrc in your  home  directory.   (Check
   the  manual entry for the shell you use, in case you don't
   know how to do this.)

As others have mentioned, this is the way MH has always operated.  I don't 
think there's any reason to change the behaviour.

p.

Key Signing in IPC9

[Moshe Zadka]

Hi!
I've long ago gave up hope of any Debian developer in Israel to sign
my key. I'm going to be in IPC9 (International Python Confrerence)
between March 4 and 8. It's in Long Beach Hilton, Calfornia. If you
are going to attend, or just happen to live near Los-Angeles,
please let me know.

Thanks in advance,
-- 
Moshe Zadka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!

Bug#81768: marked as done (general: no autoclean)

[Debian Bug Tracking System]

Your message dated Wed, 10 Jan 2001 10:39:05 +0100
with message-id <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
and subject line Bug#81768: general: no autoclean
has caused the attached Bug report to be marked as done.

This means that you claim that the problem has been dealt with.
If this is not the case it is now your responsibility to reopen the
Bug report if necessary, and/or fix the problem forthwith.

(NB: If you are a system administrator and have no idea what I am
talking about this indicates a serious mail system misconfiguration
somewhere.  Please contact me immediately.)

Darren Benham
(administrator, Debian Bugs database)

--
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 10 Jan 2001 10:23:06 +0100
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 10:23:06 +0100
From: Kiss Gabor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: general: no autoclean
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
X-Mailer: bug 3.2.10
Delivered-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Package: general
Version: 20010110
Severity: low

Sorry for not specifying the category more precisely.

I use several Debian 2.2s, with kernel module loading (i.e. no kerneld).
Some systems has 'cron' others use 'anacron'.
I found, that there is no crontab entry that removes unused modules
from memory. However I remember in 2.1 cron ran "rmmod -a" every
five minutes.
(Yes, I can fix this on my own hosts. ;-)

Regards

Gabor

-- System Information
Debian Release: 2.2
Kernel Version: Linux gatling 2.2.17 #1 Wed Oct 18 13:29:10 CEST 2000 i586 
unknown


---
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Wed, 10 Jan 2001 10:39:06 +0100
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 10:39:05 +0100
From: Wichert Akkerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Kiss Gabor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Bug#81768: general: no autoclean
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; from [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Wed, Jan 10, 2001 
at 10:23:06AM +0100
Delivered-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Previously Kiss Gabor wrote:
> I use several Debian 2.2s, with kernel module loading (i.e. no kerneld).
> Some systems has 'cron' others use 'anacron'.
> I found, that there is no crontab entry that removes unused modules
> from memory. However I remember in 2.1 cron ran "rmmod -a" every
> five minutes.

This is not a bug, it is a deliberate choice. The problem with "rmmod -a"
is that:
1. it spins up the disk on laptops, which is unwanted
2. it can tickle a race in the kernel related to module unloading, which
   is really uwanted
3. not unloading modules generally doesn't hurt you at all

Wichert.

-- 
   
 / Generally uninteresting signature - ignore at your convenience  \
| [EMAIL PROTECTED]  http://www.liacs.nl/~wichert/ |
| 1024D/2FA3BC2D 576E 100B 518D 2F16 36B0  2805 3CB8 9250 2FA3 BC2D |

Bug#81768: general: no autoclean

[Kiss Gabor]

Package: general
Version: 20010110
Severity: low

Sorry for not specifying the category more precisely.

I use several Debian 2.2s, with kernel module loading (i.e. no kerneld).
Some systems has 'cron' others use 'anacron'.
I found, that there is no crontab entry that removes unused modules
from memory. However I remember in 2.1 cron ran "rmmod -a" every
five minutes.
(Yes, I can fix this on my own hosts. ;-)

Regards

Gabor

-- System Information
Debian Release: 2.2
Kernel Version: Linux gatling 2.2.17 #1 Wed Oct 18 13:29:10 CEST 2000 i586 
unknown

Proposal: Reorganizing Python for Python2 (and fixes for the previous proposal)

[Jérôme Marant]

Hi all,

  I'm reposting this mail on -devel as not all python modules maintainers
  are -python subscribers. Discussions will continue on -python.
  This version contains small modifications from the one firstly posted
  on -python.

Proposal: Reorganizing Python for Python 2.
---

  The purpose of the proposal is to regorganise python in order to make
  multiple versions and modules installed at the same time.
  
  1) Problem:
- we want python 2 to enter debian ASAP
- we do not want to duplicate packages for python 2
- the python version number is hard coded in the path to
  python modules.
[FIX:
- some packages are GPLed and can not (yet) be run with python2.
]

  2) Proposal:  
I'm proposing to reorganise the python tree as follows (I'm considering
  only site packages in this case, are this is what is problematic) :
  
  /usr/lib/python/1.5/site-packages
This directory contains python 1.5.2 modules that are not compatible
with greater version of python (i.e. 2.0)

  /usr/lib/python/2.0/site-packages
This directory contains python 2.0-specific modules. These are not 
compatible
with earlier versions of python (i.e. 1.5).

  /usr/lib/python/site-packages
This directory contains python packages that are runnable "with
all pythons".

  3) Sceneries:
. Python 1.5 was installed and we decide to install 2.0
  python 1.5 specific packages are installed in ...python/1.5/site-packages
  other packages are installed in ...python/site-packages

  * we make /usr/bin/python point to python 2 thanks to alternatives
  * we run a compileall.py in python/site-packages in order to
get them byte-recompiled for 2.0

. 1.5 and 2.0 are both present on the system
  and we uninstall 1.5

  * nothing to do

. 1.5 and 2.0 are both present on the system
  and we want to uninstall 2.0

  * we remove the alternative so that /usr/bin/python points to 1.5
  * we run compileall.py in python/site-packages in order to get them
byte-recompiled for the earlier version (i.e. 1.5)

. 2.0 in the only one installed

  * nothing to do

  4) Modifiying the interpreters:
.The interpreters have to dynamically look for the following path, in
the following order:
- /usr/lib/python//site-packages
- /usr/lib/python/site-packages

. postint
  Add compileall for /usr/lib/python/site-packages

. postrm
  Add compileall for /usr/lib/python/site-packages if another
  interpreter is present on the system.

. control
  Add a versioned provides, Provides: python (= 2.0)
  [FIX: I'm not sure this versioned provides would work if
   we want both 1.5 and 2.0 to be installed at a time]


  5) Modifying site packages:
People will have to check the compatibility of they modules with
1.5 and 2.0 and install them in the new tree as explained in the
proposal.

So, 3 kinds of dependencies :
  Depends: python (>= 2.0)  for /usr/lib/python/2.0
  [FIX: Depends: python2]

  Depends: python (>= 1.5), python (<= 1.5.2) for /usr/lib/python/1.5
  [FIX: Depends: python (>= 1.5)]

  Depends: python (>= 1.5) for /usr/lib/python/site-packages
  [FIX: Depends: python (>= 1.5) | python2]


  Did I miss something ?

  6) If this can be implemented, we'll have to:

  - make new python 1.5 packages
  - release python 2.0 in experimental
  - change our packages to test the new implementation
  - fill bug report for all python packages
  - once tested, we'll be ready for woody.

  Any comment, ideas ?

  Thanks.

  Cheers,

-- 
Jérôme Marant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

http://jerome.marant.free.fr


-- 
Jérôme Marant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

http://jerome.marant.free.fr

Re: ITU: freeswan 1.8

[Rene Mayrhofer]

Adam Heath wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 8 Jan 2001, Rene Mayrhofer wrote:
> 
> > [snip]
> 
> Could you please run dpkg-scanpackages, and dpkg-scansources, so that we can
> use apt to install this stuff?  Txs.
Done. It should not be apt-able with
deb ftp://ftp.vianova.at/pub/gibraltar source/
deb-src ftp://ftp.vianova.at/pub/gibraltar source/

But please use with care. Our server is poorly connected, so please only use
this if you desperately want to test freeswan before it is uploaded into
unstable (should be in less than a week).

best greet
Rene

Re: gimp 1.1

[Kevin Dalley]

It would help if you could warn me before upgrading libgimp* in
incompatible ways.  If you told me about gimp1.2, I missed it, and I
apologize.

Since gimp1.2 is really the new stable gimp, can't it be in a package
called gimp?  The libraries are incompatible and need to be different
packages, but the package containing the executable can remain the
same.  I know that provides sort of allows this, but it seems simpler
to give the stable version of the gimp executable the name gimp, even
though there are incompatibilities between different version of gimp.
Unless there is an objection, I will continue to use the names sane
and xsane for the versions of the executables which work with the
stable version of gimp.  The reorganization of sane may force me to
reconsider this issue.

Joey Hess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Ben Gertzfield wrote:
> > > "Joey" == Joey Hess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > 
> > Joey> Do we actually need gimp1.1 and associated packages anymore? 
> > Joey> gimp1.2 in in unstable.
> > 
> > Nope, go ahead and toss it if we can get the other libgimp1.1 using
> > packages out too..
> 
> Looks like only gimp-python and [x]sane-gimp1.1 are holding this back,
> so I just filed bugs on them.
> 
> -- 
> see shy jo
> 

-- 
Kevin Dalley
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: News about Debian Conference... and have an happy new year !

[Andreas Tille]

On Tue, 9 Jan 2001, Thierry Laronde wrote:

> After that the subjects proposed :
Proposals:

  Debian Jr

  Coding Parties
 I expect more people with Laptops than last year (at least I know
 one person who has got one ;-) ...).  So lets organize topics top
 *work* on in the evening ours.  May be we could stay in the rooms
 longer than it was possible last year.

Kind regards

 Andreas.

Brendan O'Dea as Debian Perl developer

[Darren/Torin/Who Ever...]

While off on yet more travel earlier today, I confronted my lack of
progress in packaging Perl for Debian.  For too long, I've been denying
it.  But I have to face that my life is simply not currently structured
to have time to maintain Perl like I should.  Brendan has been patient
over the months that it's taken me to make this decision and has helped
me with NMUs.

I offered and he accepted the maintainership of Debian Perl.

I will miss maintaining Perl since I've been doing it since 1995 and
Perl 5.002.  But it needs to go to someone who *does* have the time and
love to dedicate to Debian and Perl.

Good luck, Brendan.
-- 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]><[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]>
Darren Stalder/2608 Second Ave, @282/Seattle, WA 98121-1212/USA/+1-206-ELF-LIPZ
@Make a little hot-tub in your soul.  @

Re: resolution of the tar -I issue

[Jakob 'sparky' Kaivo]

Bernd Eckenfels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 06:08:23PM -0500, Michael Stone wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> > sounds very good.
> 
> besides that -j ("junkzip"?) is NON-DESCRIPTIVE at all. -Z or -2 would be
> better... but thats an Upstream Issue I guess.

-Z is for piping through compress, and is (I believe) legacy
 compatible to a number of proprietary tars.

-[0-7][lmh] specify drive and density

I'm not sure exactly what that's for, but it does rule out -2. It
kinda sucks when you completely run out of single character
options. %-)