Re: Description to man pages

[Tille, Andreas]

Hello,

in general I like the idea of descriptions of manpages.  I would like it
even more if it would regard i18n descriptions which are produced by
the ddtp server.

Kind regards

Andreas.


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Re: O: gnu-standards -- GNU coding standards

[Glenn Maynard]

On Tue, Apr 09, 2002 at 05:32:16PM -0700, Mark Rafn wrote:
> I'm not certain I agree.  Point one of the social contract is "Debian Will 
> Remain 100% Free Software".  The obvious reading of this is that anything 
> that is not free software cannot be in Debian.  

I tend to doubt that *either* was intended when this was created.  It can be
read either way, and there's probably not going to be a consensus.  Everyone's
going to read it in whatever way suits what they want.

I happen to think that everything in Debian should be treated as software
as far as the DFSG is concerned.  It'd be convenient for me to read that
sentence as you say--but I doubt this particular fine point of the
statement was intended either way.

It'd be nice if people would stop fixating on interpreting that statement
and instead figure out what *should* be done.  The statement's ambiguous.
It won't help.

By the way, the issue of that statement's interpretation is not settled.
Please don't state your interpretation as more than an interpretation. 

-- 
Glenn Maynard


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Please compile treetool for ia64

[Tille, Andreas]

Hello,

it would be nice if treetool could be available for all released architectures.
Cureently only ia64 is missing.

auric:~> madison treetool
  treetool |2.0.2-1 |stable | source, alpha, arm, i386, powerpc, 
sparc  treetool |2.0.2-2 |   testing | source, alpha, arm, i386, m68k, 
powerpc, sparc
  treetool |2.0.2-3 |  unstable | ia64
  treetool |   2.0.2a-1 |  unstable | source, alpha, arm, hppa, i386, m68k, 
powerpc, s390, sparc

Could any kind soul please do the job or just poin to an ia64 box with
installed build dependencies?

Kind regards

 Andreas.


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Re: Please compile treetool for ia64

[Bdale Garbee]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Tille, Andreas) writes:

> Could any kind soul please do the job or just poin to an ia64 box with
> installed build dependencies?

Done.

Bdale


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[REQ] rebuild gmetadom, gtkmathview and lablgtkmathview on HPPA

[Stefano Zacchiroli]

I and the upstream author have fixed the C++ problem that inhibit
gmetadom to build on HPPA with g++ 3.0.

Could someone then rebuilt gmetadom and two of the packages that depend
on it on HPPA?

The three packages are the ones of the subject given in the order in
which they have to be rebuilt. (They depends on each other in this order
so the need is to: build one, install it and the proceed with the
following one).

TIA,
Cheers.

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[EMAIL PROTECTED] | ICQ# 33538863 | http://www.cs.unibo.it/~zacchiro
"I know you believe you understood what you think I said, but I am not
sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant!" -- G.Romney


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Re: Debian's problems, Debian's future

[Michael Bramer]

On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 10:25:22AM +1000, Martijn van Oosterhout wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 09, 2002 at 05:02:34PM +0200, Michael Bramer wrote:
> > you propose to add 'some' diff files for all files on ftp-master.d.o? 
> > 
> > With rsync we need only one rsync-checksum file per normal file and
> > all apt's need only download the neededs parts.
> > 
> > You get the point?
> 
> With the standard rsync algorithm, the rsync checksum files would actually
> be 8 times larger than the original file (you need to store the checksum
> for each possible block in the file).

I don't see that the checksum file is larger than the origanl file. If
the checksum file is larger, we will have more bytes to download... This
was not the goal.

> What you are suggesting is that the server store checksums for precalculated
> blocks on the server. This would be 4 bytes per 1k in the original file or
> so. The transaction proceeds as follows:
> 
> 1. Client asks for checksum list off server
> 2. Client calculates checksums for local file
> 3. Client compares list of server with list of client
> 4. Client downloads changed regions.

Yes, this is the way..

> Note, this is not the rsync algorithm, but the one that is possibly
> patented.

maybe I don't understand the rsync algorithm...

IMHO the rsync algorithm is:
 1.) Computer beta splits file B in blocks.
 2.) calculate two checksums 
 a.) weak ``rolling'' 32-bit checksum
 b.) md5sum
 3.) Computer B send this to computer A.
 4.) Computer A search in file A for parts with the same checksums from
 file B
 5.) Computer A request unmatch blocks from computer B and 
 build the file B.

I get this from /usr/share/doc/rsync/tech_report.tex.gz

right? 

The _only_ difference is: precalculate the checksums on computer B

Or maybe store the calculated checksums in a /var/cache/rsync/ cache
dir. 


sorry, I know that partentes don't have any logic, but this is the same
algorithm, only with some cache. Comments?

Gruss
Grisu
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Re: Debian's problems, Debian's future

[Robert Tiberius Johnson]

On Tue, 2002-04-09 at 17:25, Martijn van Oosterhout wrote:
> What you are suggesting is that the server store checksums for precalculated
> blocks on the server. This would be 4 bytes per 1k in the original file or
> so. The transaction proceeds as follows:
> 
> 1. Client asks for checksum list off server
> 2. Client calculates checksums for local file
> 3. Client compares list of server with list of client
> 4. Client downloads changed regions.
> 
> Note, this is not the rsync algorithm, but the one that is possibly
> patented.

This looks like an interesting algorithm, so I decided to compare it to
the diff scheme analyzed in 
http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2002/debian-devel-200204/msg00502.html

The above message also gives my analysis methodology.

The results:


- The following table summarizes the performance of the checksum-based
scheme and the diff-based scheme under the assumption that users tend to
perform apt-get update often.  I think disk space is cheap and bandwidth
is expensive, so 20 days of diffs is the best choice.

Scheme Disk space Bandwidth
---
Checksums (bwidth optimal)26K   81K
diffs (4 days)32K  331K
diffs (9 days)71K   66K
diffs (20 days)  159K   27K

- The analysis is unfairly favorable to the checksum scheme, because I
do not count the bandwidth required to request all the changed blocks,
only the bandwidth used to transmit the changed blocks.

- For the user model in the message above, the optimal block size for
this algorithm is around 245 bytes .

- In the diff-based scheme, each mirror can decide on a
diskspace/bandwidth tradeoff by simply keeping more old diffs or
deleting some old diffs.  The checksum-based scheme doesn't really
support tweaking at the mirror.

- I tend to update every day.  For people who update every day, the
diff-based scheme only needs to transfer about 8K, but the
checksum-based scheme needs to transfer 45K.  So for me, diffs are
better. :)

Best,
Rob



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upload rejected: md5sum for .orig.tar.gz doesn't match .dsc

[Joost van Baal]

Hi,

Your package upload (cl-imho, manpages-de, tiger) was rejected due to a
mismatch in the original source md5sum.  I saw this in
auric:/org/ftp.debian.org/incoming/REJECT/*.reason .  The package I
maintain (lire) was rejected for the same reason.  I have absolutely no
idea how this was caused, or how to fix it.

I did some investigating, however.  Fetching my
lire_20020214.orig.tar.gz from the Debian archive, untarring it, and
running a diff -dur on that one and an untarred copy of the
lire_20020214.orig.tar.gz i created during build, gives an _empty_ diff:

 % diff -dur from-debian-archive/lire-20020214.orig 
created-ruding-my-build/lire-20020214.orig > dif
 % ls -l dif
 -rw-rw-r--1 joostvb  joostvb 0 Apr  9 19:07 dif

However, since:

 % md5sum */*.tar.gz
 532551307172db33b6a1b917dc34eb1f  
created-during-my-build/lire_20020214.orig.tar.gz
 3cd31a624c744ae18201a5f4a003be00  from-debian-archive/lire_20020214.orig.tar.gz

the upload was rejected.  Of course, my lire_20020214-2.dsc says:

 lire_20020214-3.dsc: 532551307172db33b6a1b917dc34eb1f 1043429 
lire_20020214.orig.tar.gz

At one moment, I thought the difference in md5sums was caused by a
changed gzip compression speed.  However, file on both tarballs gives
'max compression'.

I assume you did some investigating too; did you find any fix for this?
Am I missing something really obvious here?

Bye,

Joost

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Re: sid: libc6-2.2.5-4 kills vmware workstation 3.0

[Torsten Landschoff]

On Tue, Apr 09, 2002 at 10:40:41PM +0200, Jeroen Dekkers wrote:
> s/refused/discouraged/ and I would agree. Isn't the goal of Debian
> providing a free system so users don't have to run any non-free
> software anymore? IMHO the "we support non-free software" clause was

I think this is one of the goals of Debian. And in cases where there
is free software that works good enough I will use it. But sometimes
there is only non-free software for a task or the non-free program is
a lot better than the free one.

In such cases I sometimes decide to run the non-free tool if it saves
me some time. After all I want to get my job done and I want to have 
some time left for leisure or for working on stuff like free software.

Like you I want other people to use free software as well because then
I hope not being asked about those silly opaque problems in proprietary
programs anymore. But I am not going to attack anybody because he 
likes the proprietary stuff better, not even if it is extreme silly to 
do so. If somebody tells me about yet another Outlook problem I will
just smirk and go on to the next email.

Thanks

Torsten


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Re: upload rejected: md5sum for .orig.tar.gz doesn't match .dsc

[Daniel Kobras]

On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 10:37:35AM +0200, Joost van Baal wrote:
> Your package upload (cl-imho, manpages-de, tiger) was rejected due to a
> mismatch in the original source md5sum.  I saw this in
> auric:/org/ftp.debian.org/incoming/REJECT/*.reason .  The package I
> maintain (lire) was rejected for the same reason.  I have absolutely no
> idea how this was caused, or how to fix it.

Most likely this is caused by different timestamps in the tarballs. It
happens to me occasionally when I cvs-buildpackage on a machine where
the .orig.tar.gz is not present and thus rebuilt from a new CVS checkout.
Just apt-get source the tarball from the archive and dpkg-buildpackage
with it.

Regards,

Daniel.


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Re: Rant about the flaming here

[Torsten Landschoff]

Hi Jeroen, 

On Tue, Apr 09, 2002 at 11:42:51PM +0200, Jeroen Dekkers wrote:
> 
> I'm getting sick of people who can't read. Let's say the same thing
> for the next time. Maybe a lot of people on this list just need
> glasses, so I do it in upper case that you can easily read it:

I have yet to see somebody who can read uppercase better. 

> Is it clear now? The damn fucking problem on this list is that nobody
> actually reads but just starts flaming because some part of the
> message they just don't like or whatever. Maybe that's the reason why
> a lot of debian developers aren't subscribed to this
> list.

Perhaps I am the only person but I got the impression that you started
flaming another person. You even flamed one of our users how kindly asked
for support and you got what you deserve.

> ::: Person1 has joined: #debian-devel
>  the linux packages should really be called "linux" and not "kernel"
>  yeah
>  Person1: oh, don't fucking start ...

For me this is just a humorous note. 

> To give an example how it should be, look at Ben's reaction, it just
> says in a professional way that I should not be offensive and don't
> speak on behalf of Debian etc. I agree with him, what I actually said
> was wrong.

Good. Let's go on and work on free software now...

Greetings

Torsten


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Re: sid: libc6-2.2.5-4 kills vmware workstation 3.0

[Torsten Landschoff]

Hi Donald, 

On Tue, Apr 09, 2002 at 07:54:54PM -0500, Donald J Bindner wrote:
> Well, I didn't expect to inspire such a vibrant thread!  A couple
> of responses (not in anger, just adding some perspective).
> 
> 1) free vs. non-free alternatives
> 
> I use VMWare 2.0.  If you think that bochs and Plex86 aren't
> viable alternatives yet, you can imagine the state of the world
> (2 years ago today) when I bought my license.  At that time
> VMWare was being praised for bringing Linux into places where it
> never before existed.

You are not the only one. During an internship we were using VMware
all the time to test install a Linux product and to run proprietary
software where needed (people tend to send MS Office attachments, arg).

> becomes viable.  When I can start Plex86, drop in a Windows NT
> install disk (or any other OS for that matter) and install a
> system from scratch, I will be pleased to do it.  I am in the end
> a free software zealot.

The problem with plex86 is that it is not that urgently needed. I can
live without VMware and plex86 because everything I need is available
on Linux. Maybe that's the reason why plex86 does not drag more developers.

> 2) posting to ddevel
> 
> I posted to ddevel for a few reason (perhaps in error, and I'm
> willing to concede that).
> 
>  - I read the list, and I have for a long time (so I don't
>actually need to be Cc:ed).
> 
>  - I was continuing a previous thread.  The level seemed to
>be of a technical nature and relevant to the list.
> 
> My question wasn't really of the "user" variety (how do I
> configure a fire wall, how do ... in dselect, etc.).

I agree to this. For a technical skilled person it is bothersome to post
to some -user list. Most of the time you get silly replies which you 
already know. Sometimes you feel like calling the support hotline of your
hardware supplier ;)

> BTW, the fix was right on and I have passed it on to two
> colleagues who are also Debian users.  I do appreciate the help

Thanks for not resenting because of the answers you got. Debian should
be glad to have users like you...

Greetings

Torsten


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Re: sid: libc6-2.2.5-4 kills vmware workstation 3.0

[Martin Michlmayr]

* Jeroen Dekkers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [20020409 20:45]:
> You don't have to tell me how glibc works, I develop it.

Yeah, and Daniel Stone is a Linux kernel developer.

-- 
Martin Michlmayr
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Debian's problems, Debian's future

[Anthony Towns]

On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 01:26:17AM -0700, Robert Tiberius Johnson wrote:
> - I tend to update every day.  For people who update every day, the
> diff-based scheme only needs to transfer about 8K, but the
> checksum-based scheme needs to transfer 45K.  So for me, diffs are
> better. :)

I think you'll find you're also unfairly weighting this against people
who do daily updates. If you do an update once a month, it's not as much
of a bother waiting a while to download the Packages files -- you're
going to have to wait _much_ longer to download the packages themselves.

I'd suggest your formula would be better off being:

bandwidthcost = sum( x = 1..30, prob(x) * cost(x) / x )

(If you update every day for a month, your cost isn't just one download,
it's 30 downloads. If you update once a week for a month, your cost
isn't that of a single download, it's four times that. The /x takes that
into account)

Bandwidth cost, then is something like "the average amount downloaded
by a testing/unstable user per day to update main".

My results, are something like:

 0 days of diffs: 843.7 KiB (the current situation)
 1  day of diffs: 335.7 KiB
 2 days of diffs: 167.7 KiB
 3 days of diffs:  93.7 KiB
 4 days of diffs:  56.9 KiB
 5 days of diffs:  37.5 KiB
 6 days of diffs:  26.8 KiB
 7 days of diffs:  20.7 KiB
 8 days of diffs:  17.2 KiB
 9 days of diffs:  15.1 KiB
10 days of diffs:  13.9 KiB
11 days of diffs:  13.2 KiB
12 days of diffs:  12.7 KiB
13 days of diffs:  12.4 KiB
14 days of diffs:  12.3 KiB
15 days of diffs:  12.2 KiB

...which pretty much matches what I'd expect: at the moment, just to
update main, people download around 1.2MB per day; if we let them just
download the diff against yesterday, the average would plunge to only
a couple of hundred k, and you rapidly reach the point of diminishing
returns.

I used figures of 1.5MiB for the standard gzipped Packages file you
download if you can't use diffs, and 12KiB for the size of each daily
diff -- if you're three days out of date, you download three diffs and
apply them in order to get up to date. 12KiB is the average size of
daily bzip2'ed --ed diffs over last month for sid/main/i386.

The script I used for the above was (roughly):

#!/usr/bin/python

def cost_diff(day, ndiffs):
if day <= ndiffs:
return 12 * 1024 * day
else:
return 1.5 * 1024 * 1024

def prob(d):
return (2.0 / 3.0) ** d / 2.0

def summate(f,p):
cost = 0.0
for d in range(1,31):
cost += f(d) * p(d) / d
return cost

for x in range(0,16):
print "%s day/s of diffs: %.1f KiB" % \
(x, summate(lambda y: cost_diff(y,x), prob) / 1024)


I'd be interested in seeing what the rsync stats look like with the
"/ days" factor added in.

Cheers,
aj

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Re: Debian's problems, Debian's future

[Anthony Towns]

On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 07:28:42PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
>  0 days of diffs: 843.7 KiB (the current situation)

> ...which pretty much matches what I'd expect: at the moment, just to
> update main, people download around 1.2MB per day;

Uh, obviously this should be 843KiB. (I'd been playing with other
probabilities when I was writing the latter part. Tsktsk.)

Cheers,
aj

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Re: Apache2 Debian Packages

[Sander Smeenk]

Quoting Thom May ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):

> > Very nice :)   But I have 2 things:
> > 1) Where's apache2-modules?  Subversion depends on them!
> Subversion needs to update :) Happily, I don't have to be back compat, but I
> will add a provides for apache2-modules. We scrapped the seperate deb as it 
> was pointless.

Well, it's a bit confusing. DannyS also released Apache2 packages a
while ago. Are you two working together, or do we get Apache2-Thom and
Apache2-DannyS packages? :)

> > 2) Why is apache2 compiled against libdb3, and not libdb4?
> Cos I wanted testers, and didn't feel like answering billions of emails 
> all saying "Where are libdb4.0 packages?" ;-) 

Hmm :)  I'm testing Apache2 with SVN, so I need libdb4 ;)  Do you have
your diff.gz and orig.tar.gz files available somewhere?  iirc they
weren't at your p.d.o/~thom/ site.

Regards,
Sander.

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Re: sid: libc6-2.2.5-4 kills vmware workstation 3.0

[Mariusz Przygodzki]

Od: Martin Michlmayr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Do: debian-devel@lists.debian.org
X-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wed Apr 10
11:26:22 2002
Temat: Re: sid: libc6-2.2.5-4 kills vmware workstation 3.0
Data: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 11:25:53 +0200

> * Jeroen Dekkers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [20020409 20:45]:
> > You don't have to tell me how glibc works, I develop it.
> 
> Yeah, and Daniel Stone is a Linux kernel developer.

Yeah, and Martin Michlmayr is a developer in general.

---
Mariusz Przygodzki
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Subversion packages

[Sander Smeenk]

Quoting Marcelo E. Magallon ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
>  >   missing... try "deb http://people.debian.org/~ssmeenk/ ./" for 
> http://people.debian.org/~mmagallo/packages/subversion/ sid/i386/
> should work.

Okay, I admit, i'm a mess at creating apt-lines :)

Your packages are fine, Thom will add 'Provides' lines for the
apache2-modules packagename. :)   Thanks alot for your effort to package
this.

>  > Now let's lart Thom for compiling apache2 against libdb3, instead of 
>  > libdb4, which renders subversion unusable :)
>  Again, I don't know about this...

Thom does :)  He didn't want tons of emails questioning where to get
libdb4 packages. So he said. I need to recompile :)

Thanks!

Regards,
Sander.

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Re: Subversion packages

[Sander Smeenk]

Quoting Thom May ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):

> > > Now let's lart Thom for compiling apache2 against libdb3, instead of 
> > > libdb4, which renders subversion unusable :)
> >  Again, I don't know about this...
> I'm pretty unhappy about the LARTing ;-) 

heh.. sorry? :)

Regards,
Sander.

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Re: upload rejected: md5sum for .orig.tar.gz doesn't match .dsc

[Joost van Baal]

On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 10:44:19AM +0200, Daniel Kobras wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 10:37:35AM +0200, Joost van Baal wrote:
> > Your package upload (cl-imho, manpages-de, tiger) was rejected due to a
> > mismatch in the original source md5sum.
> 
> Most likely this is caused by different timestamps in the tarballs.

Hm, ye, probably daylight-saving time interacting here...  Likely an
issue which has been popping up yearly for a lng time now :-/

> Just apt-get source the tarball from the archive and dpkg-buildpackage
> with it.

This helps, thanks a lot!

Bye,

Joost

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yes && bg

[Michal Medvecký]

Hi,

anyone know about this problem in debian?

yes
^z
bg

and the terminal ignore any pressed key || combination.

Seems to be debian-specific, does not happen on slackware (don't know
about any other distros)

Michal


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Re: Debian's problems, Debian's future

[Richard Atterer]

On Tue, Apr 09, 2002 at 10:58:24AM +0200, Michael Bramer wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 09, 2002 at 06:39:19PM +1000, Martijn van Oosterhout wrote:
> > I beleive this method is patented by somebody, [snip]
> 
> has someone a pointer? 

Here's some stuff from my mail archives - I haven't checked whether
the links still work. The following one probably doesn't, but looks
like the patent number is 6167407:

http://164.195.100.11/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1='6167407'.WKU.&OS=PN/6167407&RS=PN/6167407

Cheers,

  Richard

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- Forwarded message from Clifford Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -

Date: 29 Jan 2001 10:05:11 +1100
From: "Clifford Heath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: "Goswin Brederlow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: reverse checksumming [legal] 

> What came first, rsync or the patent?

OSA refers to its issued patent US6006034 as the "SmartPull" patent.  This
isn't the patent that threatens rsync, though it might be relevant to some
of the preceeding discussion. I haven't considered whether there's any
overlap with rsync itself - in any case I doubt OSA would attempt to block
use of rsync.  We think that rsync is wonderful!

The patent that may overlap with rsync is US5446888 and its followup number
US5721907, with precedence date Jan 14 1994.  I am not a lawyer, but it
seems to directly conflict with rsync.  I've had correspondence with the
rights holders, as OSA wished to implement something similar in a product
but held off until licensing concerns were addressed. They are Travelling
Software Inc. (TSI), and refer to the technology as "SpeedSync", using it in
their LapLink product line.  At the time of my last contact (August 1999),
Travelling Software had "not made a determination if rsync infringes on any
intellectual property right of TSI or not."  Read the patent and decide for
yourself. I'm not qualified to hold a legal opinion.

The patent clearly identifies which operations are performed on the host
sending the file, and which on the host receiving it. We discovered a method
which reversed many of the operations with substantial benefit (as Tim
Adam has told you), and filed a patent to this effect, with a defensive
intent. This latest patent has not issued (it's "pending").  So we have no
rights (yet!) to ask you to cease and desist from implementing and using it.
Be aware that this might change in the future. I personally believe (and
think OSA agrees) that it would be counter-productive to the industry as a
whole, but it's not my decision.  Who knows, OSA itself might be sold to
some sharks who think differently...

> This is just the rsync algorithm and thats probably way older than the
> patent, so the patent might not hold.

I don't believe that rsync is older, but in any case it's difficult and
expensive to challenge an issued patent over prior art, and I don't think
that Tridge is likely to do that.  If you fear a suit from TSI and would
choose a "prior art" defense, you will need Tridge's help, as only he could
establish priority.

> Can the text of the Patent be found anywhere online?



--
Clifford Heath, Open Software Associates, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED],
Ph +613 9895 2194, Fax 9895 2020, ,
56-60 Rutland Rd, Box Hill 3128, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.


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Re: Subversion packages

[Marcelo E. Magallon]

>> Sander Smeenk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

 > Your packages are fine, Thom will add 'Provides' lines for the
 > apache2-modules packagename. :)   Thanks alot for your effort to package
 > this.

 These are actually David's packages, I just updated them.

 > >  > Now let's lart Thom for compiling apache2 against libdb3, instead of 
 > >  > libdb4, which renders subversion unusable :)
 > >  Again, I don't know about this...
 > 
 > Thom does :)  He didn't want tons of emails questioning where to get
 > libdb4 packages. So he said. I need to recompile :)

 I'll take another look at this later, but I'm under the impression
 subversion wanted to have libdb4.

 Marcelo


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Re: Apache2 Debian Packages

[Thom May]

* Sander Smeenk ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote :
> Quoting Thom May ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> 
> > > Very nice :)   But I have 2 things:
> > > 1) Where's apache2-modules?  Subversion depends on them!
> > Subversion needs to update :) Happily, I don't have to be back compat, but I
> > will add a provides for apache2-modules. We scrapped the seperate deb as it 
> > was pointless.
> 
> Well, it's a bit confusing. DannyS also released Apache2 packages a
> while ago. Are you two working together, or do we get Apache2-Thom and
> Apache2-DannyS packages? :)
> 
Working together. 

> > > 2) Why is apache2 compiled against libdb3, and not libdb4?
> > Cos I wanted testers, and didn't feel like answering billions of emails 
> > all saying "Where are libdb4.0 packages?" ;-) 
> 
> Hmm :)  I'm testing Apache2 with SVN, so I need libdb4 ;)  Do you have
> your diff.gz and orig.tar.gz files available somewhere?  iirc they
> weren't at your p.d.o/~thom/ site.
>
Bloody well should be ;-)
http://pandora.debian.org/~thom/apache2/ definitely has them.
-Thom 


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Re: Debian's problems, Debian's future

[Martijn van Oosterhout]

On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 09:22:50AM +0200, Michael Bramer wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 10:25:22AM +1000, Martijn van Oosterhout wrote:
> > With the standard rsync algorithm, the rsync checksum files would actually
> > be 8 times larger than the original file (you need to store the checksum
> > for each possible block in the file).
> 
> I don't see that the checksum file is larger than the origanl file. If
> the checksum file is larger, we will have more bytes to download... This
> was not the goal.

That's because the client doesn't not download the checksums. Look below.

> maybe I don't understand the rsync algorithm...
> 
> IMHO the rsync algorithm is:
>  1.) Computer beta splits file B in blocks.
>  2.) calculate two checksums 
>  a.) weak ``rolling'' 32-bit checksum
>  b.) md5sum
>  3.) Computer B send this to computer A.
>  4.) Computer A search in file A for parts with the same checksums from
>  file B
>  5.) Computer A request unmatch blocks from computer B and 
>  build the file B.
> 
> I get this from /usr/share/doc/rsync/tech_report.tex.gz

Computer A wants to download a file F from computer B.

1. Computer A splits it's version into blocks, calculates the checksum for
each block.
2. Computer A sends this list to computer B. This should be <1% the size of
the original file. Depends on the block size.
3. Computer B takes this list and does the rolling checksum over the file.
Basically, it calculates the checksum for bytes 0-1023, checks for it in the
list from the client. If it's a match send back a string indicating which
block it is, else send byte 0. Calculate checksum of 1-1024 and do the same.
The rolling checksum is just an optimisation.
4. Computer A receives list of "tokens" which are either bytes of data or
indications of which block to copy from the original file.

Notice that:
a. The server (computer B) does *all* the work.
b. The data forms a stream. The client can split itself into two and can be
analysing the next file while the server is still processing the current
one. Your above algorithm requires two requests for each file. The streaming
help performance over high latency links.
c. Precalculating checksums on the client is useless
d. Precalculating checksums on the server is also useless because the
storage would be more (remember, checksum for bytes 0-1023, then for 1-1024,
2-1025, etc). It's faster to calculate them than to load them off disk.

So, the main difference between what you are proposing is 1 versus 2
requests per file. And rsync definitly only has one.

Besides, look at the other posts on this thread. Diff requires less download
than rsync.
-- 
Martijn van Oosterhouthttp://svana.org/kleptog/
> Ignorance continues to thrive when intelligent people choose to do
> nothing.  Speaking out against censorship and ignorance is the imperative
> of all intelligent people.


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Re: yes && bg

[Steven Barker]

On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 12:01:57PM +0200, Michal Medvecký wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> anyone know about this problem in debian?
> 
> yes
> ^z
> bg
> 
> and the terminal ignore any pressed key || combination.

Well, I don't see anything unexpected:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ yes
y
y
y
y
[lots of y's...]
y
y
y

[1]+  Stopped yes
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ bg
y
y
y
y
y
[lots more y's...]
y
y
yf
y
y
[...]
y
y
yg
y
y
[...]
y
y
y

y
y
y
[...]
y
y
y
[I press ^C]

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ 


Nothing unusual as far as I can tell.  I still have a working shell under
all those y's.  You could probably do some magic with bash's kill
builtin command to stop that job too, if you wanted to.

-- 
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Re: Subversion packages

[Thom May]

* Marcelo E. Magallon ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote :
> >> Sander Smeenk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > Your packages are fine, Thom will add 'Provides' lines for the
> > apache2-modules packagename. :)   Thanks alot for your effort to package
> > this.
> 
>  These are actually David's packages, I just updated them.
> 
> > >  > Now let's lart Thom for compiling apache2 against libdb3, instead of 
> > >  > libdb4, which renders subversion unusable :)
> > >  Again, I don't know about this...
> > 
> > Thom does :)  He didn't want tons of emails questioning where to get
> > libdb4 packages. So he said. I need to recompile :)
> 
>  I'll take another look at this later, but I'm under the impression
>  subversion wanted to have libdb4.
> 
Right, the problem is subversion and apache2 have to be compiled with the
same version of libdb, otherwise it all goes haywire. Unfortunately libdb4.0
is not in the archive yet, so I had received a huge number of requests for
db4.0 packages to go with apache2. rather than step on Matthew Wilcox's toes
and create potential problems later I declined to do that and dropped back
to using libdb3. 
Right now, the potential fixes are: 
(a) I start providing two versions of apache2
(b) the sources are there, if people need db4.0 they're welcome to build
with them. 

I think that (a) is better from a technical perspective, but it's a pain in
the ass ;-) (And no, I really don't have room to do chroot builds). 

So the solution for the minute is that you guys are gonna have to build
against db4 yourselves.
Sorry!
Cheers,
-Thom 


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Re: g++-3.0 library support?

[Ulrich Eckhardt]

On Sunday 07 April 2002 22:26, King "Leo (Martin Oberzalek)" wrote:
> Hello,
>
> it's not possible linking a C++ library compiled with g++-2.9x to a C++
> application compiled with g++-3.0.
>
> We all no the reasons...
>
> My question is how I should handle this, on debian distributions that
> are based on gcc-2.9x?
>
> I have a C++ library. And I wan't to create debs for g++.2.9x and
> g++-3.0. Technically this is no problem.
>
> I created 4 debs.
>
> 1) libfoo  => shared g++-2.9x library
> 2) libfoo-dev  => development files (includes, .a, docu)
> 3) libfoo-gcc3 => shared g++3.0 library
> 4) libfoo-gcc3-dev => development files (.a only, since
>include files and docu are the same)
>
> the g++-2.9x library files are called libfoo.so
> for g++-3.0  libfoo-gcc3.so
>
> The files of both packages are located in /usr/lib
>
> So if I wanna link an programm with the gcc-3.0 version, -lfoo-gcc3 has
> to be used and for gcc-2.9x, -lfoo.
>
> Are there any better ideas?
>
No, not really. One thing that I could imagine would be the dynamic linker 
auto-picking the lib with the proper ABI. Another usefule feature would be if 
the autotools could be extended to that extent.

However, what we really need is a more generic naming-scheme like
  -.so
The advantage would be that we would have prepared support for any compiler, 
there are more than just g++ 2.x and 3.x[1]. Also, to provide some stability 
for software-developers, I would suppose moving that naming-scheme to the 
FHS[2].

uli


[1]: Yes, I know that some people will not move a finger to provide proper 
infrastructure for eg Intel's compiler. However, providing a generic 
framework will enable a smooth upgrade to g++ 3.1 and other distros that are 
less reluctant to include non-free software will be more motivated to share 
that scheme.
[2]: Is there anyone here who is following their development ? I wouldn't 
like to crash in there unprepared with such a proposal 


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Re: sid: libc6-2.2.5-4 kills vmware workstation 3.0

[Sebastian Rittau]

On Tue, Apr 09, 2002 at 05:49:55PM -0400, Stephen Frost wrote:
> * Jeroen Dekkers ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:

> > Isn't the goal of Debian
> > providing a free system so users don't have to run any non-free
> > software anymore?
> 
> No, no, nonono, no, no, no.

Yes, of course. That's one of Debian's main goals. But that doesn't mean
that Debian should restrict our freedom by forbidding or hindering the
use of non-free software. It's about giving us an alternative, not
forcing an alternative on us.

 - Sebastian


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Re: sid: libc6-2.2.5-4 kills vmware workstation 3.0

[Emil Pedersen]

Mariusz Przygodzki wrote:
> 
> Od: Martin Michlmayr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Do: debian-devel@lists.debian.org
> X-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wed Apr 10
> 11:26:22 2002
> Temat: Re: sid: libc6-2.2.5-4 kills vmware workstation 3.0
> Data: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 11:25:53 +0200
> 
> > * Jeroen Dekkers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [20020409 20:45]:
> > > You don't have to tell me how glibc works, I develop it.
> >
> > Yeah, and Daniel Stone is a Linux kernel developer.
> 
> Yeah, and Martin Michlmayr is a developer in general.

Wowh!  I never thought I would see a "I'm cooler than you" -thread in a
debian list ;-)

// Emil

---
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 You know why,
 because I did THIS to your MAMA!"


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Re: Debian's problems, Debian's future

[Michael Bramer]

On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 01:26:17AM -0700, Robert Tiberius Johnson wrote:
> This looks like an interesting algorithm, so I decided to compare it to
> the diff scheme analyzed in 
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2002/debian-devel-200204/msg00502.html
> 
> The above message also gives my analysis methodology.
> 
> The results:
> 
> 
> - The following table summarizes the performance of the checksum-based
> scheme and the diff-based scheme under the assumption that users tend to
> perform apt-get update often.  I think disk space is cheap and bandwidth
> is expensive, so 20 days of diffs is the best choice.
> 
> Scheme Disk space Bandwidth
> ---
> Checksums (bwidth optimal)26K   81K
> diffs (4 days)32K  331K
> diffs (9 days)71K   66K
> diffs (20 days)  159K   27K

can you explain your counts?

Gruss
Grisu
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PGP: finger [EMAIL PROTECTED]  -- Linux Sysadmin   -- Use Debian Linux
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Re: Please test this woody cd image

[Bas Zoetekouw]

Hi Raphael!

You wrote:

> Please grab it, burn it, and try to boot on it (you can also install
> Debian with it if you want :-)). 

I just tried it, and it seems to work very well. I had no problems
booting whatsoever.

> If you have troubles during the installation process, please report your
> problems to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Are people working on the dutch translation of the installation? If not,
I could do it.

-- 
Kind regards,
+---+
| Bas Zoetekouw  | Si l'on sait exactement ce   |
|| que l'on va faire, a quoi|
| [EMAIL PROTECTED] | bon le faire?|
|[EMAIL PROTECTED] |   Pablo Picasso  |
+---+ 


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Re: yes && bg

[Michal Medvecký]

I mean:

yes 
^z
fg (sorry:)

^c


On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 12:01:57PM +0200, Michal Medvecký wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> anyone know about this problem in debian?
> 
> yes
> ^z
> bg
> 
> and the terminal ignore any pressed key || combination.
> 
> Seems to be debian-specific, does not happen on slackware (don't know
> about any other distros)
> 
> Michal
> 
> 
> -- 
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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-- 
I'm not a guru, I'm a google user!


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Re: yes && bg

[Daniel Burrows]

On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 02:29:05PM +0200, Michal Medvecký <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
was heard to say:
> I mean:
> 
> yes 
> ^z
> fg (sorry:)
> 
> ^c

  Nothing strange happens to me with zsh or bash when I try that.

  Daniel

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/dev/ptmx suid root tty device file - Who owns this?

[David D. W. Downey]

Evening ladies and gents,


got a file here that's set suid root as a tty device.

$ dpkg -S /dev/ptmx
dpkg: /dev/ptmx not found
$

doing a 

$ grep ptmx -r /var/lib/dpkg/ | less

$

shows the tetex-base tetex-extra packages and their font installs, it
does not show any device creation calls for this specific device.

I know that a grep -i ptmx -r kernel-source-2.4.18/ will show a
Pseudo-tty which is fine. The devices.txt shows that it's a Master pty
for the pty master multiplex, and the lettering positions within the pty array
list.

I'm looking to find out what it's specific usage is, as in at the device
level is this a template file used to carbon the ttys off of? If not, why
is it set for the global array for the entire x series? Or is this file
acting as a device fifo for IPC processes?

I've run this against woody and sid with no ownership found. Other than
it being part of the base*.tgz I can't see what package owns it or any
other data on it other than device type.

I do see in the man page that it says some devices will not be
recorded as being owned by a package if it was created by a postinst, I
don't see in any of the install or system logs this device being
created. So to me that begs the question, who owns this file's creation?

Anyone out there know what package(s) specificly create(s) this device?


--
David D.W. Downey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Upstream - libpam-pgsql.codecastle.com
Debian - Woody: 0.5.2-2   Sid: 0.5.2-3
State - bugs.debian.org/libpam-pgsql


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Re: O: gnu-standards -- GNU coding standards

[Steve Langasek]

On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 02:52:21AM -0400, Glenn Maynard wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 09, 2002 at 05:32:16PM -0700, Mark Rafn wrote:
> > I'm not certain I agree.  Point one of the social contract is "Debian Will 
> > Remain 100% Free Software".  The obvious reading of this is that anything 
> > that is not free software cannot be in Debian.  

> I tend to doubt that *either* was intended when this was created.  It
> can be read either way, and there's probably not going to be a
> consensus.  Everyone's going to read it in whatever way suits what
> they want.

Not so.  I'm personally of the belief that there's merit in holding
documentation and similar papers/literary works to a different standard
of freeness in terms of modifiability than we hold software to.
However, I've found Branden's reasoning persuasive, and I don't think
anyone can honestly read the DFSG/Social Contract as unambiguously
allowing us to do that at present (i.e., anyone who says it does is
lying to himself).

> I happen to think that everything in Debian should be treated as software
> as far as the DFSG is concerned.  It'd be convenient for me to read that
> sentence as you say--but I doubt this particular fine point of the
> statement was intended either way.

However, some people are interpreting that ambiguity as a license to
regard the widest possible range of material as falling into the 'free'
category.

> It'd be nice if people would stop fixating on interpreting that statement
> and instead figure out what *should* be done.  The statement's ambiguous.
> It won't help.

Hear, hear!  If people are concerned with having the regs relaxed for
documentation, get the GR moving along.  Talking about it on
debian-devel or debian-legal isn't going to accomplish anything.

Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer


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Re: Subversion packages

[Sander Smeenk]

Quoting Marcelo E. Magallon ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):

>  > >  > Now let's lart Thom for compiling apache2 against libdb3, instead of 
>  > >  > libdb4, which renders subversion unusable :)
>  > >  Again, I don't know about this...
>  > Thom does :)  He didn't want tons of emails questioning where to get
>  > libdb4 packages. So he said. I need to recompile :)
>  I'll take another look at this later, but I'm under the impression
>  subversion wanted to have libdb4.

I didn't mean to say it doesn't. In fact i'm sure that subversion needs
libdb4. But I said Thom compiled his apache2 packages against libdb3, 
because he didn't want to get covered in a pile of emails asking where 
to get libdb4 packages for debian. :) 

I just did a recompile with libdb4 at my box.

Regards,
Sander.

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Re: Accepted gettext 0.10.40-5 (i386 all source)

[Wichert Akkerman]

Previously Santiago Vila wrote:
>  gettext (0.10.40-5) unstable; urgency=medium
>  .
>* Modified /etc/emacs/site-start.d/50gettext.el so that it only uses
>  modify-coding-system-alist when it's actually ok to do so.
>  This closes: #110416 (xemacs21) and also closes: #141446 (emacs19).
>* Release Manager: This is the only change, and it's extremely unlikely
>  that it breaks anything else. Please let it pass to testing.

Does gettext still depend om emacs-* through gettext-el? I really would
like to see that fixed before gettext makes it to testing. 

Wichert (who has had gettext on hold ever since that dependency was
added).

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Re: /dev/ptmx suid root tty device file - Who owns this?

[Martijn van Oosterhout]

On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 05:51:30AM -0700, David D. W. Downey wrote:
> I know that a grep -i ptmx -r kernel-source-2.4.18/ will show a
> Pseudo-tty which is fine. The devices.txt shows that it's a Master pty
> for the pty master multiplex, and the lettering positions within the pty array
> list.

That's what it is.

> I'm looking to find out what it's specific usage is, as in at the device
> level is this a template file used to carbon the ttys off of? If not, why
> is it set for the global array for the entire x series? Or is this file
> acting as a device fifo for IPC processes?

There is a protocol, I'm not sure. Most people use the makepty() system call
which hides all the magic in glibc.

> I've run this against woody and sid with no ownership found. Other than
> it being part of the base*.tgz I can't see what package owns it or any
> other data on it other than device type.

Look into MAKEDEV. It has instructions for creating hundreds of devices.
Also, if you have devfs it will be created by the kernel.

> I do see in the man page that it says some devices will not be
> recorded as being owned by a package if it was created by a postinst, I
> don't see in any of the install or system logs this device being
> created. So to me that begs the question, who owns this file's creation?
> 
> Anyone out there know what package(s) specificly create(s) this device?

I think it's in base*.tgz precisely because if you delete it, you'll
probably not be able login remotely. It's not really owned by anybody,
because it needs to exist before ownership is meaningful (if you get what I
mean...).

HTH,
-- 
Martijn van Oosterhouthttp://svana.org/kleptog/
> Ignorance continues to thrive when intelligent people choose to do
> nothing.  Speaking out against censorship and ignorance is the imperative
> of all intelligent people.


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m68k autobuilder disk full!

[Peter S Galbraith]

One of my packages disappeared from testing recently (not sure why) and
a recent upload is only lacking a m68k to get in.  And now this:

 File `log' in gri_2.8.6-2_m68k (Apr 10 07:53)
 gri >> 2.8.6-2 >> Apr 10 07:53 >> log

 Automatic build of gri_2.8.6-2 on thing2 by sbuild/m68k 1.168
 Build started at 20020410-0651
 **
 Checking available source versions...
 sbuild received SIGTERM -- shutting down
 **
 Finished at 20020410-0651
 Build needed 00:00:00, 0k disk space

Could someone with control over that machine look into it please?

Thanks,
Peter


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Re: m68k autobuilder disk full!

[Peter S Galbraith]

> Quoting Peter S Galbraith ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> 
> >  Build needed 00:00:00, 0k disk space
> 
> Just FYI, this '0k disk space' means there was 0k disk space needed to
> build the package. (Since it got killed with SIGTERM).

Ah, I thought the reverse for some reason (killed because of no space).

> But I don't know why it got killed ;)

Maybe some admin thought there were some important packages to process.
:-(

Thanks for the info,
Peter
 


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Re: yes && bg

[Fabio Pedrazzoli]

On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 12:01:57PM +0200, Michal Medveck? wrote:

Hi, 
I think the "y" stream of the background process running 
obfuscates your command prompt and it seems not 
to be accepting commands...

On my potato with 2.4.18 if I do:

bash ~$ yes|grep -v y
<- ^z
[1]+  Stopped yes | grep -v y
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~$ bg
[1]+ yes | grep -v y &
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~$ fg
yes | grep -v y
<- ^c
bash ~$ 

Here all is working as it should :)
Hope this helps.


> Hi,
> 
> anyone know about this problem in debian?
> 
> yes
> ^z
> bg
> 
> and the terminal ignore any pressed key || combination.
> 
> Seems to be debian-specific, does not happen on slackware (don't know
> about any other distros)
> 
> Michal
> 
> 
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> 
> 

-- 
Fabio Pedrazzoli  | www.bee-side.com | www.rigadicomando.org
Network Administrator | IT Consultant| GNU/Linux
1024D/4B5DF2FD 594C F51B E7A7 8391 F0E8  49CE 9FFA B2C1 4B5D F2FD


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Re: Debian's problems, Debian's future

[Michael Bramer]

On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 08:29:49PM +1000, Martijn van Oosterhout wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 09:22:50AM +0200, Michael Bramer wrote:
> > On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 10:25:22AM +1000, Martijn van Oosterhout wrote:
> > > With the standard rsync algorithm, the rsync checksum files would actually
> > > be 8 times larger than the original file (you need to store the checksum
> > > for each possible block in the file).
> > 
> > I don't see that the checksum file is larger than the origanl file. If
> > the checksum file is larger, we will have more bytes to download... This
> > was not the goal.
> 
> That's because the client doesn't not download the checksums. Look below.
> 
> > maybe I don't understand the rsync algorithm...
> > 
> > IMHO the rsync algorithm is:
> >  1.) Computer beta splits file B in blocks.
> >  2.) calculate two checksums 
> >  a.) weak ``rolling'' 32-bit checksum
> >  b.) md5sum
> >  3.) Computer B send this to computer A.
> >  4.) Computer A search in file A for parts with the same checksums from
> >  file B
> >  5.) Computer A request unmatch blocks from computer B and 
> >  build the file B.
> > 
> > I get this from /usr/share/doc/rsync/tech_report.tex.gz
> 
> Computer A wants to download a file F from computer B.
> 
> 1. Computer A splits it's version into blocks, calculates the checksum for
> each block.
> 2. Computer A sends this list to computer B. This should be <1% the size of
> the original file. Depends on the block size.
> 3. Computer B takes this list and does the rolling checksum over the file.
> Basically, it calculates the checksum for bytes 0-1023, checks for it in the
> list from the client. If it's a match send back a string indicating which
> block it is, else send byte 0. Calculate checksum of 1-1024 and do the same.
> The rolling checksum is just an optimisation.
> 4. Computer A receives list of "tokens" which are either bytes of data or
> indications of which block to copy from the original file.

all ok. I write the same above, except point '4' and you switch A and
B...

> Notice that:
> a. The server (computer B) does *all* the work.

If you use A as Server, the client make all the work.

> c. Precalculating checksums on the client is useless
> d. Precalculating checksums on the server is also useless because the
> storage would be more (remember, checksum for bytes 0-1023, then for 1-1024,
> 2-1025, etc). It's faster to calculate them than to load them off disk.

Precalculating of the _block_ checksums is _not_ useless. This checksums
are only <1% the size of the original file (depends on the block size). 

> So, the main difference between what you are proposing is 1 versus 2
> requests per file. And rsync definitly only has one.

The main difference is: The client and not the server make all the work!

> Besides, look at the other posts on this thread. Diff requires less download
> than rsync.

I read it, but I don't understand it.

But this is not the problem. IMHO the diff is a kind of a hack and a
cached rsync is a nice framework. But this is only my taste...

Maybe I should read the rsync-source-code...Done

  Ok, with the normal rsync program the client make the block checksums
  and the server search in the file...

Thanks for your help.

Gruss
Grisu
-- 
Michael Bramer  -  a Debian Linux Developer  http://www.debsupport.de
PGP: finger [EMAIL PROTECTED]  -- Linux Sysadmin   -- Use Debian Linux
"Hummeln koennen wirklich stechen, tun das aber nur in extremen Ausnahme-
Situationen. NT tut in solchen Situationen nichts mehr." aus d.a.s.r


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please upgrade libxslt package to 1.0.15

[Stefano Zacchiroli]

Dear Nicolas,
  woody is coming and libxslt package in testing is still at version
1.0.12 which has a fastidious bug/feature that create .memdump files
spread all over the filesystem (includeing "/" !!!). In later versions
at least this bug/feature is not compiled unless explicitely stated with
a compile time switch.

Others improvement were added too.

Could you upgrade the package in a relative short time so that it can be
part of woody?
Otherwise I saw that last upgrade of the package was done via NMU, could
someone that already knows the package do an NMU if Nicolas can't do it
by himself?

As a last resort I can NMU it, even if I'm not very in touch with the
package nor with the upstream sources.

Cheers.

-- 
Stefano Zacchiroli - undergraduate student of CS @ Univ. Bologna, Italy
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | ICQ# 33538863 | http://www.cs.unibo.it/~zacchiro
"I know you believe you understood what you think I said, but I am not
sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant!" -- G.Romney


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Re: [REQ] rebuild gmetadom, gtkmathview and lablgtkmathview on HPPA

[Randolph Chung]

In reference to a message from Stefano Zacchiroli, dated Apr 10:
> I and the upstream author have fixed the C++ problem that inhibit
> gmetadom to build on HPPA with g++ 3.0.
> 
> Could someone then rebuilt gmetadom and two of the packages that depend
> on it on HPPA?

if you upload new sources/versions they will automatically be retried,
please check the buildd logs at http://buildd.debian.org/ to see the
status. 

> The three packages are the ones of the subject given in the order in
> which they have to be rebuilt. (They depends on each other in this order
> so the need is to: build one, install it and the proceed with the
> following one).

assuming your packages declare proper build-dependencies they will be
automatically rebuilt in the right order.

thanks
randolph


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Re: Please test this woody cd image

[Matt Zimmerman]

On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 11:06:44AM +0200, Raphael Hertzog wrote:

> Hello everybody,
> 
> release is coming soon ... and we need a bit of feedback about
> a new feature we plan to use on CD1 of Debian woody for i386.

On CD *1*?  Surely you don't plan to introduce new features in such a core
component mere weeks before the scheduled release?  There is no way that it
could receive sufficient testing in that time.  If we must have a new
experimental boot feature, it should go on one of the other CDs in the set.

(that said, I see no problem with making the first CD contain fewer packages
so that it can fit on a 5cm CD; that sounds useful indeed)

-- 
 - mdz


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Re: Please test this woody cd image

[Tille, Andreas]

On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Bas Zoetekouw wrote:

> I just tried it, and it seems to work very well. I had no problems
> booting whatsoever.
I did just a quick look (no real install just booted and selected the
language) and I really like the i18n stuff!!!

Great job! Many thanks!

Kind regards

 Andreas.


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Re: please upgrade libxslt package to 1.0.15

[Will Newton]

On Wednesday 10 Apr 2002 3:36 pm, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:

> As a last resort I can NMU it, even if I'm not very in touch with the
> package nor with the upstream sources.

When I prepared the NMU libxslt greater than 1.0.12 needed a newer libxml2 
than was available in the archive. Now it should be possible to package newer 
versions, but beware that libxml2 currently has an RC bug so libxslt will be 
blocked until that is fixed.

I'm not sure if Nicholas reads this list, I had no success contacting him 
previously.


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Bug#142207: ITP: billard-gl -- A billiard game using OpenGL

[Martin Butterweck]

Package: wnpp
Version: N/A; reported 2002-04-10
Severity: wishlist

* Package name: billard-gl
  Version : 1.70
  Upstream Author : Various <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://www.billardgl.de/
* License : GPL
  Description : A billiard game using OpenGL


-- System Information
Debian Release: 3.0
Architecture: i386
Kernel: Linux martin 2.4.18 #1 Mon Mar 11 00:35:00 CET 2002 i686
Locale: LANG=C, LC_CTYPE=de_DE.UTF-8



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Re: Accepted gettext 0.10.40-5 (i386 all source)

[Andreas Metzler]

Wichert Akkerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Previously Santiago Vila wrote:
>>  gettext (0.10.40-5) unstable; urgency=medium
[...]
> Does gettext still depend om emacs-* through gettext-el? I really would
> like to see that fixed before gettext makes it to testing. 
[...]

Hello,
afaics 0.10.40-4 doesn't, gettext-el only /suggests/ emacsen:

Package: gettext
Version: 0.10.40-4
Depends: libc6 (>= 2.2.4-4), gettext-base, gettext-el

Package: gettext-base
Version: 0.10.40-4
Replaces: gettext (<= 0.10.40-1)
Depends: libc6 (>= 2.2.4-4)

Package: gettext-el
Version: 0.10.40-4
Replaces: gettext (<= 0.10.40-3)
Depends: gettext
Suggests: emacsen
Conffiles:
 /etc/emacs/site-start.d/50gettext.el d6be433272338eb3923bf1fb7555ac66
Description: Emacs po-mode for editing .po files.
 This package contains po-mode.el for easy .po editing using emacs.
 gettext depends on this package so that people who upgrade using apt-get
 will not miss it. This dependency will be dropped after the release of woody.

BTW, imho this means that according to the changelog we are in
post-woody-land ;-)
| * Removed the dependency on emacsen-common while gettext still depends
|   on gettext-el. This should be safe enough because emacsen-common is
|   now more robust, but it is some sort of compromise. After the release
|   of woody, gettext-el will depend on emacsen (not emacsen-common),
|   to be in full compliance with debian emacs policy.
 cu andreas


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to buy laptop

[Damian Sanabria]

   LAPTOP
  PENTIUM 4,WINDOW 98 2ND.  2.2 GHZ INTEL  AT SPEEDS UP TO 2.8 GHZ
UTILIZING THE LATEST DDR RAM UPGRADE RAM TO 1024MB(PC2100)266MHZ
40 GB ULTRA ATA /100(BUILT IN HARD DRIVE UP TO40 GB  
  2 DIMMS ,14.1SXGA t TFT ACTIVE MATRIX W/ATI MOBILITY 
RADEON 7500W SYSTEM BIOS:FLASH EPROM(INCLUDED SYSTEMA,BIOS AND VGA 
BIOS).ACPI 1.0 ;DMI 2.31 COMPLIANT(P) .SUPPORTS MULTI MONITOR .VGA MONITOR  
PORT X 1

2 DRIVE CD-RW ,DVD-RAM DRIVE FLOOPY-1.44MB 3.5 144MB FDD
EXCHANGEABLE WITH OPTIONAL 2nd BATTERY BUILT IN-IN TOUCH PAD POINTING DEVICE 
W/ SCROLLING (KEY 1TYPE 11 PCMCIA SLOT 56K CARBUS SUPPORT  RJ-11 PORT X 1 
RJ- 45 PORT X 1 JR PORT X 1COMPLIES WITH IRDA 1.1

CAPABLE(3) PORT REPLICATOR ,FIRE PORT (IEE-1394) BUILT-IN ICRT-OUT
COMPILART,SUPORT 4 (1 KENSIGTON SPDIF 5.1 OUT -PUT FOR DVD 3 HOT KEY
FOR MAIL BROWER AND DVD PLAYER FRONT PANEL AUDIO DJ WITH SEPARATER
POWER SWITH 3D SURROUND SOUND (PRIMER PLATIUM SOUND BLASTER WITH
SUBWOOFER 3AUDIO JACKS FOR LINE-IN, LINE -OUT AND MICROPHONE(S/P DIF.-
OUT-PUT FOR HOME THREATRE SOUND BUILT IN STEREO SPEAKER EXTERNA VOLUMEN 
CONTROL. DC IN PUT  X 1 ,4  USB PORT ,  PORT (LAN)  W/RJ  JACK   
WIRELESS FAST INTRA RED PORT FULL RANGE AUTO   SWITHINGFAST-IN   FRARED 
(FIR,IS DA 1.1 ) BI -DIRECTIONAL PORT BUILT-IN 1PARALLE PORT WITH ECP/EPP 
SUPORT 56K V.92   HIGH SPEED INTERNET  5 X EASY  BUTTONS
(USER PROGRAMMABLE APPLICATION BUTTONS)1X MAIL RECEIVED BUTTON .   DATA 
1 PORT 1 FAX MODEM 10/100 ETHERNET LOCK PORT USB CAMERA PORT
USB VIDEO BUS 11 AND ALL CAN PUT UBS IN TO OUT. 64MB  VIDEO MEMORY
. (NIVIA FORCE 4- 4400) IRDA PS/MOUSE KEY BOARD 1S-VIDEO JACK FOR TV
(OUTPUT (MINI DC IN Jack) carrying bag and ADAPTER INCLUDED
EXTERNAL NUMERIC KEYPAD. AND POWER PACKS (MINUTEMAN)
 And can you can put in with everthing can bring in to .
[EMAIL PROTECTED] fax.787-805-1481 or 787 --808-0803

  GOOD PRICES???





_
Descargue GRATUITAMENTE MSN Explorer en http://explorer.yupimsn.com/intl.asp
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Re: Python module for debconf

[Adam Heath]

On Mon, 8 Apr 2002, Gerhard Muntingh wrote:

> On Sun, Apr 07, 2002 at 01:36:40PM -0500, Chris Lawrence wrote:
> > On Apr 07, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> > > Isn't it a bit heavy to make debconf depend on python ?
> >
> > Why would debconf have to depend on python?  You stick the module in
> > and only bytecompile if python is installed.
>
> whaah! No compiled debconfscripts on my machine.  While it
> would be nice to have python bindings, I'd really like to
> hack all sorts of scripts when I need to.

Um, you byte-compile when building the package, duh.

Any runtime compilation is wrong(and yes, I include emacs in this).


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please test gshield 2.7.1 package for debian

[Domenico Andreoli]

hi all,

i packaged gshield 2.7.1 for debian. everything is available at
http://filibusta.crema.unimi.it/~cavok/gshield/ .

please check it!

thanks
cavok

-[ Domenico Andreoli, aka cavok
 --[ http://filibusta.crema.unimi.it/~cavok/gpgkey.asc
   ---[ 3A0F 2F80 F79C 678A 8936  4FEE 0677 9033 A20E BC50


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Re: [REQ] rebuild gmetadom, gtkmathview and lablgtkmathview on HPPA

[Stefano Zacchiroli]

On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 08:11:14AM -0700, Randolph Chung wrote:
> if you upload new sources/versions they will automatically be retried,
> please check the buildd logs at http://buildd.debian.org/ to see the
> status. 

Already done it, but I'm experiencing delays on hppa, so I asked here.

> assuming your packages declare proper build-dependencies they will be
> automatically rebuilt in the right order.

I know, I've reported them only in case someone have to manual rebuild
the packages.

Cheers.

-- 
Stefano Zacchiroli - undergraduate student of CS @ Univ. Bologna, Italy
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | ICQ# 33538863 | http://www.cs.unibo.it/~zacchiro
"I know you believe you understood what you think I said, but I am not
sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant!" -- G.Romney


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Re: please upgrade libxslt package to 1.0.15

[Michael Piefel]

Am 10.04.02 um 15:57:37 schrieb Will Newton:
> but beware that libxml2 currently has an RC bug so libxslt will be
> blocked until that is fixed.

No RC bug there, Junichi Uekawa downgraded it himself.

> I'm not sure if Nicholas reads this list, I had no success contacting him 
> previously.

Please do an NMU then. Nicolás seems to be concerned with other problems
at the moment; don't hesitate.

Bye,
Mike

-- 
|=| Michael Piefel
|=| Humboldt-Universität zu Berlin
|=| Tel. (+49 30) 2093 3831


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Re: Accepted gettext 0.10.40-5 (i386 all source)

[Santiago Vila]

On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Wichert Akkerman wrote:

> Previously Santiago Vila wrote:
> >  gettext (0.10.40-5) unstable; urgency=medium
> >  .
> >* Modified /etc/emacs/site-start.d/50gettext.el so that it only uses
> >  modify-coding-system-alist when it's actually ok to do so.
> >  This closes: #110416 (xemacs21) and also closes: #141446 (emacs19).
> >* Release Manager: This is the only change, and it's extremely unlikely
> >  that it breaks anything else. Please let it pass to testing.
>
> Does gettext still depend om emacs-* through gettext-el? I really would
> like to see that fixed before gettext makes it to testing.
>
> Wichert (who has had gettext on hold ever since that dependency was
> added).

The dependency was dropped in 0.10.40-4 (which you can install from
testing) at the same time the package was split using a double mutual
dependency. I know this is not optimal but the other alternatives were
even worse.

I still think we need a new dpkg field for package splits.

For example, gettext-el could have a field "Previously-In: gettext" so that
"apt-get upgrade" knows which packages have to be installed when
upgrading in order not to lose existing functionality.


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Re: m68k autobuilder disk full!

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Peter S Galbraith wrote:
> > But I don't know why it got killed ;)
> 
> Maybe some admin thought there were some important packages to process.
> :-(

It's more likely killed because the build daemon was brought down for
maintenance. Since it didn't even download the source, the admin probably
waited for the previous package to finish before killing buildd...

-- 
Groetjes,
Wouter Verhelst
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

No human can know everything. But in my case, he still wants to...


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Re: Debian's problems, Debian's future

[Erich Schubert]

> Scheme Disk space Bandwidth
> ---
> Checksums (bwidth optimal)26K   81K
> diffs (4 days)32K  331K
> diffs (9 days)71K   66K
> diffs (20 days)  159K   27K

What diff options do you use?
As the diffs are expected to be applied to the correct version, they
probably shouldn't contain the old data, but the new data only.

Greetings,
Erich


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unsubscribe

[Florian Struck]

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Re: Bug#139945: ITP: prokyon3 -- a multithreaded MP3 manager and tag editor for Linux.

[Emanuele Aina]

Tollef Fog Heen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> suggerì:
You might have luck with 2.4 and the UDF filesystem and udftools.
Haven't tried it myself, so I'm not sure it'll work. :)
But I have already tried: the kernel still assume the cd drive as
read-only at low level (or so I've been said :) , so I can only create
a loopback udf filesystem on the hard disk. :-(
--
Au revoir.
Lele...

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Re: GNU FDL (was Re: Bug#141561: gnu-standards: Non-free software in main)

[Manoj Srivastava]

>>"Steve" == Steve Langasek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

 Steve> As a developer, I am by no means in a position to try to
 Steve> interpret what the phrasers of the Social Contract /really/
 Steve> meant to say.  They wrote what they wrote, and I agreed to it
 Steve> as written; as did many other developers we have today, who
 Steve> were not involved in the original composition of the Social
 Steve> Contract and the DFSG.

The author of the social contract is still around, as are some
 of the rest of us who were involved in the process. It is not as if
 we are all dead and gone like the US founding fathers, you know. You
 could just ask.

manoj
-- 
 BEWARE!  People acting under the influence of human nature.
Manoj Srivastava   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
1024R/C7261095 print CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05  CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B  924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C


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Bug#142235: O: x2x -- Link two X displays together, simulating a multiheaded display

[Charles Briscoe-Smith]

Package: x2x
Version: 1.27-6

I no longer have the time or the inclination to maintain x2x.  I've just
fixed a quick imake bug and orphaned it.  A previous NMU'er has helpfully
debhelperised the package for you.

-- 
Charles Briscoe-Smith Hacking Free Software for fun and profit
"When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all."
-- God, Futurama ep. 3ACV20, "Godfellas"


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Re: O: gnu-standards -- GNU coding standards

[paul cannon]

On Sun, Apr 07, 2002 at 04:34:36PM -0500, Steve Langasek wrote:
> The issue is that the Debian Social Contract doesn't say "All software
> in Debian will remain 100% free", it says "Debian will remain 100% Free
> Software."

Interesting. I had always read it as "Debian will remain (100% Free)
Software", not "Debian will remain 100% (Free Software)"; meaning that
all the software in Debian will remain 100% free.

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Re: Python module for debconf

[Manoj Srivastava]

>>"Adam" == Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

 Adam> Um, you byte-compile when building the package, duh.
 Adam> Any runtime compilation is wrong(and yes, I include emacs in this).

Emacs doesn't do runtime byte compilation. Debian emacs add on
 modules to install time bye compilation, which is not run time.  Any
 reason you think byte compilation ought not to happen on
 installation? (slowing down the install is one reason, I guess, but
 the benefits of delayed byte compilation outweigh that, IMHO).

manoj
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Re: Python module for debconf

[Adam Heath]

On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Manoj Srivastava wrote:

>   Emacs doesn't do runtime byte compilation. Debian emacs add on
>  modules to install time bye compilation, which is not run time.  Any
>  reason you think byte compilation ought not to happen on
>  installation? (slowing down the install is one reason, I guess, but
>  the benefits of delayed byte compilation outweigh that, IMHO).

The byte compilation should be done when the package is built, not at runtime,
not at install time.


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Re: Please test this woody cd image

[Josip Rodin]

On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 02:14:36PM +0200, Bas Zoetekouw wrote:
> > If you have troubles during the installation process, please report your
> > problems to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Are people working on the dutch translation of the installation? If not,
> I could do it.

We still don't have anyone to update the Dutch translation of the web pages,
which should be much less work than the installation manual...  

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Request for gnuchess packaging change

[Lukas Geyer]

Hi,

after unsuccessful attempts to contact the maintainer of gnuchess, Martin
Mitchell (he did not answer at all to my emails), I would like to propose
a change to the packaging of gnuchess. Andreas Tille did at least do an
NMU to update to version 5.03 which fixes several outstanding bugs. One
remaining bug is that gnuchess does not use its opening book. This has in
the meantime been separated from the upstream source, due to its enormous
size. I propose that Debian follows this step and splits gnuchess into
gnuchess and gnuchess-book. The book in the current version is completely
architecture-independent, so this separation makes sense as it only has to
be built on one architecture for all. Furthermore, the book is not bound
to change with every new upstream version of gnuchess, so that people will
not have to download it every time the code changes. I have put up sample
source packages under

http://www.mathematik.uni-dortmund.de/lsix/geyer/gnuchess/debian

and would be glad about any comments. The package gnuchess will only
install gnuchess without any opening book (this might be changed to
provide some small default opening book) and the package gnuchess-book
builds and installs the book. (The build takes approximately one hour on
my iBook with 500MHz PPC, gnuchess compiled just with -O2.) I am not an
expert on Debian packets, but I have used debhelper before, and I started
from the package by Andreas Tille.

My interest in gnuchess comes from the fact that I am co-maintaining the
upstream gnuchess release. It seems to me that the maintainer has no real
interest in the package and before the NMU of Andreas Tille it was
completely broken for several architectures. I would be willing to provide
Debian packages but I am not a member of the Debian project (yet).

Best regards,
Lukas

P.S.: Please Cc me on replies, I am not subscribed to this list.


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Re: Python module for debconf

[Alan Shutko]

Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> The byte compilation should be done when the package is built, not
> at runtime, not at install time.

So you're saying that the maintainer should need to either create
separate packages for a given add-on for all current (and future)
Emacs flavors, or that they should include the byte-code for all
current (and future) Emacs flavors within the one package, even though
for most people that will be useless data?

-- 
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Suicide is simply a case of mistaken identity.


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Re: Please test this woody cd image

[Eduard Bloch]

#include 
Matt Zimmerman wrote on Wed Apr 10, 2002 um 10:45:35AM:

> On CD *1*?  Surely you don't plan to introduce new features in such a core
> component mere weeks before the scheduled release?  There is no way that it

Why not? Weeks != days.

> could receive sufficient testing in that time.  If we must have a new
> experimental boot feature, it should go on one of the other CDs in the set.

Why not use _exactly_ this on the first CD, and pure idepci on 5th CD
(for the few cases where isolinux may break though I have _never_ heard
about problems with isolinux).

And sorry, IMHO is idepci the worst kernel-image to be used for CD#1 as
the only available flavor.

Gruss/Regards,
Eduard.
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Falschatmer!
Frühblinker!


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Re: GNU FDL (was Re: Bug#141561: gnu-standards: Non-free =?iso-8859-15?q?software in?= main)

[Steve Langasek]

On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 01:24:00PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> >>"Steve" == Steve Langasek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

>  Steve> As a developer, I am by no means in a position to try to
>  Steve> interpret what the phrasers of the Social Contract /really/
>  Steve> meant to say.  They wrote what they wrote, and I agreed to it
>  Steve> as written; as did many other developers we have today, who
>  Steve> were not involved in the original composition of the Social
>  Steve> Contract and the DFSG.

>   The author of the social contract is still around, as are some
>  of the rest of us who were involved in the process. It is not as if
>  we are all dead and gone like the US founding fathers, you know. You
>  could just ask.

I'd be happy to hear clarifications from the author and contemporaries,
then; to be honest, my memory of Debian history isn't good enough to 
even know who to approach.  (The debian-doc package is conspicuously 
lacking of the relevant copyright information, btw. :)

Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer


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Re: Python module for debconf

[Adam Heath]

On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Alan Shutko wrote:

> Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > The byte compilation should be done when the package is built, not
> > at runtime, not at install time.
>
> So you're saying that the maintainer should need to either create
> separate packages for a given add-on for all current (and future)
> Emacs flavors, or that they should include the byte-code for all
> current (and future) Emacs flavors within the one package, even though
> for most people that will be useless data?

We don't include (using i386 as an example) i386, i486, pentium, k6-2, athlon,
p4 compiled binaries in a single deb.


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Re: Python module for debconf

[Mark Brown]

On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 03:30:08PM -0400, Alan Shutko wrote:

> current (and future) Emacs flavors within the one package, even though
> for most people that will be useless data?

Not to mention requiring huge amounts of disk space for Emacs packages
even though the maintainer is likely to use only one.

-- 
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Re: GNU FDL (was Re: Bug#141561: gnu-standards: Non-free =?iso-8859-15?q?software in?= main)

[Dale Scheetz]

On Tue, 9 Apr 2002, Branden Robinson wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 09, 2002 at 02:03:11PM -0400, Dale Scheetz wrote:
> > The history section in my book, which is declared invarient in the
> > license, was written by Ian M. and has no technical bearing on the rest of
> > the book's content, but has every reason to be "protected" from
> > modification. These particular words have a value that must be protected.
> 
> I'll put you down as being in favor of eternal copyright, then.

Give me a break. I've never said that, and your suggestion that what I
said implies I believe your suggestion is ... stupid.

This is exactly the kind of "distraction by misdirection" that I so
greatly detest.

> 
> "The Congress shall have the power to PROMOTE THE PROGRESS OF SCIENCE
> AND USEFUL ARTS, by securing for LIMITED TIMES to authors and inventors
> the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;"
> 

And in 10 or 15 years the historic material in my book, (not to mention
the technical content ;-) will not matter one way or another. If there
_is_ any historical significance to this content, other forces will
protect it.

> (Emphasis added.)
> 
> What a tragedy that the value of all works published before 1926 has
> been irrevocably lost because we're not protecting them anymore.

Well, the fact is that those "old" works are protected specifically
because they have survived. The Declaration of Independance needs no
copyright to protect it. (However, I've been greatly disturbed by the
interpretation our present government places on certain phrases found
there...)

The real problem with most of those pre-26 books is that I can't find them
in print today...

I actually agree with you, (If I haven't made a stupid assumption based on
your initial statement ;-) eternal copyright doesn't stimulate creativity.
Just look at the new and interesting stories being told by Hollywood about
everyone from Mr. I. Crane, to Peter Pan. All possible by the expiration
of those copyrights on the original books.

While I'm not sure that M. Mouse should be owned by anyone but Uncle Walt,
I understand the fear of the current copyright holder, given that I am in
direct contact with the spirit of the original Mr. Disney. He has some
very clear ideas about the uses of this icon, and they would not set well
with the current "owner". Maybe I should find a lawyer and argue in court
that the original copyright holder should be given back control of his
intelectual property...

Waiting is,

Dwarf
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Re: Python module for debconf

[Adam Heath]

On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Mark Brown wrote:

> Not to mention requiring huge amounts of disk space for Emacs packages
> even though the maintainer is likely to use only one.

Is debian for maintainers or users?


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Re: sid: libc6-2.2.5-4 kills vmware workstation 3.0

[Jeroen Dekkers]

On Tue, Apr 09, 2002 at 06:38:13PM -0300, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
> On Tue, 09 Apr 2002, Jeroen Dekkers wrote:
> > But does that mean they can posts question about problems with that
> > non-free software which are not related to Debian at all (the only
> > relation is that the user runs Debian) to debian-devel?
> 
> No. However, this mess all started because the *wording* in your message was
> such that one got the clear impression that 'non-free' was the problem, and
> not that the fact that he posted to debian-devel instead of debian-user was.

Non-free is the problem here. The question should actually be posted
to a vmware list.

Jeroen Dekkers
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Re: GNU FDL (was Re: Bug#141561: gnu-standards: Non-free software in main)

[Jeff Licquia]

On Wed, 2002-04-10 at 14:39, Steve Langasek wrote:
> 
> I'd be happy to hear clarifications from the author and contemporaries,
> then; to be honest, my memory of Debian history isn't good enough to 
> even know who to approach.  (The debian-doc package is conspicuously 
> lacking of the relevant copyright information, btw. :)

Here's a statement from Bruce Perens:

http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2001/debian-legal-200111/msg00063.html


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Re: Packages still in Potato

[Bob Hilliard]

Otto Wyss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Packages: dict-easton, dict-gazetteer, dict-hitchcock
 
> The listed packages are still located in the Potato directory,
> possibly because there wasn't any update necessary during the full
> Woody development phase, but maybe also because there is no interest
> in these packages. So please check your packages and do an upload,
> so they get into the pool, or orphan them so others can take over or
> they get removed.
 
> Please inform me what you are doing or not doing. This way I may ask
> others to do NMU's just in case.

 These packages have not needed any updates.  The last update was
solely to add the /usr/share/doc directory.  I had not contemplated
another upload until post-woody, when the /usr/doc symlink could be
removed.  In previous releases (before the pool concept was adopted),
the unstable directory contained symlinks to the unstable directory,
and the last step before release was converting any remaining symlinks
to hard links.  Is it really necessary to make a new upload, rather
than copying or linking these packages to the pool?

 I will make a new upload before the woody release if it is
necessary to do so.  Please let me know it this is required.

Bob
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Re: Python module for debconf

[Alan Shutko]

Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Is debian for maintainers or users?

Users are well-served by not requiring a maintainer to release new
byte-compiled versions of a package for a new flavor of Emacs.

-- 
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Stealing a rhinoceros should not be attempted lightly.


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Re: Python module for debconf

[Mark Brown]

On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 02:56:08PM -0500, Adam Heath wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Mark Brown wrote:

> > Not to mention requiring huge amounts of disk space for Emacs packages
> > even though the maintainer is likely to use only one.

> Is debian for maintainers or users?

Making it prohibitively expensive to maintain probably isn't the most
constructive thing for users either.  If we allowed source only uploads
things would be different but for some reason we don't any more.

BTW, I do actually read -devel - no need to CC me.

-- 
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Re: GNU FDL (was Re: Bug#141561: gnu-standards: Non-free =?iso-8859-15?q?software in?= main)

[Dale Scheetz]

On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Richard Braakman wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 09, 2002 at 02:03:11PM -0400, Dale Scheetz wrote:
> > The freedom of expression of the author is what is being
> > protected by this clause. The freedom to express opinion without having
> > those statements twisted into something completely different is one of the
> > reasons for the creation of the copyright in the first place.
> 
> A version of the GFDL that allowed deletion but not modification of such
> sections would be perfectly acceptable to me.

I would have no problem with that either. However, I'm left with the
current license as the one that come closest to my needs...

On the other hand, this would give a publisher the power to silence
some statements in favor of others, but then, from my experience,
publishers have this power without copyright control, as they hold the
power to put those words on paper or not.

With internet distribution, (currently the state of my book ;-) this power
is somewhat diluted. At least for those who know can find the original
text.

Luck,

Dwarf
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Re: Python module for debconf

[Jérôme Marant]

Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
>
>>  Emacs doesn't do runtime byte compilation. Debian emacs add on
>>  modules to install time bye compilation, which is not run time.  Any
>>  reason you think byte compilation ought not to happen on
>>  installation? (slowing down the install is one reason, I guess, but
>>  the benefits of delayed byte compilation outweigh that, IMHO).
>
> The byte compilation should be done when the package is built, not at runtime,
> not at install time.

  We have already discussed this. Shipping a unique package for several
  Python flavours is better for the user and better for the maintainer,
  be cause in any case, there is only one package to take care of.
  Byte compilation is not mandatory for python. It just speed things up.

-- 
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  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

http://marant.org
  


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Re: upload rejected: md5sum for .orig.tar.gz doesn't match .dsc

[Dale Scheetz]

This happened to me on my first upload of libgmp3_4.0.1. At first I
thought it was a breakage caused by this library, but eventually resolved
the problem by upgrading ssh. (I use scp to do uploads to auric)

The tarball was being corrupted by ssh during the transfer.

HTH,

On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Daniel Kobras wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 10:37:35AM +0200, Joost van Baal wrote:
> > Your package upload (cl-imho, manpages-de, tiger) was rejected due to a
> > mismatch in the original source md5sum.  I saw this in
> > auric:/org/ftp.debian.org/incoming/REJECT/*.reason .  The package I
> > maintain (lire) was rejected for the same reason.  I have absolutely no
> > idea how this was caused, or how to fix it.
> 
> Most likely this is caused by different timestamps in the tarballs. It
> happens to me occasionally when I cvs-buildpackage on a machine where
> the .orig.tar.gz is not present and thus rebuilt from a new CVS checkout.
> Just apt-get source the tarball from the archive and dpkg-buildpackage
> with it.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Daniel.
> 
> 
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> 

Dwarf
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Re: sid: libc6-2.2.5-4 kills vmware workstation 3.0

[Jeroen Dekkers]

On Tue, Apr 09, 2002 at 07:54:54PM -0500, Donald J Bindner wrote:
> Well, I didn't expect to inspire such a vibrant thread!  A couple
> of responses (not in anger, just adding some perspective).
> 
> 1) free vs. non-free alternatives
> 
> I use VMWare 2.0.  If you think that bochs and Plex86 aren't
> viable alternatives yet, you can imagine the state of the world
> (2 years ago today) when I bought my license.  At that time
> VMWare was being praised for bringing Linux into places where it
> never before existed.

That's actually true. We should fix the free alternatives. :)

> I have since felt slightly cajoled by the company to buy upgrades
> that I didn't feel that I needed, and I resisted.  I am content
> with what I have, and satisfied to wait until a free alternative
> becomes viable.  When I can start Plex86, drop in a Windows NT
> install disk (or any other OS for that matter) and install a
> system from scratch, I will be pleased to do it.  I am in the end
> a free software zealot.

Yes, it was actually your own fault, but the problem is that there
doesn't exist a good free alternative. There are a lot of outstanding
plex86 patches and somebody from an university had interest in
plex86. The project isn't dead and I hope you can happily run plex86
within a couple of months. And it won't have this kind of problems and
it would just be possible to apt-get install plex86. :)

> 2) posting to ddevel
> 
> I posted to ddevel for a few reason (perhaps in error, and I'm
> willing to concede that).
> 
>  - I read the list, and I have for a long time (so I don't
>actually need to be Cc:ed).
> 
>  - I was continuing a previous thread.  The level seemed to
>be of a technical nature and relevant to the list.
> 
> My question wasn't really of the "user" variety (how do I
> configure a fire wall, how do ... in dselect, etc.).

Actual my point was that you should ask vmware for the patch, we can't
provide it because it's non-free software.

Jeroen Dekkers
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Re: Please test this woody cd image

[Matt Zimmerman]

On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 08:33:00PM +0200, Eduard Bloch wrote:

> Matt Zimmerman wrote on Wed Apr 10, 2002 um 10:45:35AM:
> 
> > On CD *1*?  Surely you don't plan to introduce new features in such a core
> > component mere weeks before the scheduled release?  There is no way that it
> 
> Why not? Weeks != days.

10 days != long enough to test a completely different _primary_ way of
booting the installation system.

> Why not use _exactly_ this on the first CD, and pure idepci on 5th CD (for
> the few cases where isolinux may break though I have _never_ heard about
> problems with isolinux).

Sure, once it has been proven to work _for Debian_ on a wide variety of
systems.  It would have been a great idea a couple of months ago.  Why did
you wait until there was so much pressure to finish the release?

> And sorry, IMHO is idepci the worst kernel-image to be used for CD#1 as
> the only available flavor.

It seems to work for a large number of users, and that is its only job, is
it not?

-- 
 - mdz


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Processed: Re: Bug#142164: acknowledged by developer (Re: Bug#142164: apt: output ignores locale)

[Debian Bug Tracking System]

Processing commands for [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

> reassign 142164 general
Bug#142164: apt: output ignores locale
Bug reassigned from package `apt' to `general'.

> severity 142164 wishlist
Bug#142164: apt: output ignores locale
Severity set to `wishlist'.

> thanks
Stopping processing here.

Please contact me if you need assistance.

Debian bug tracking system administrator
(administrator, Debian Bugs database)


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Re: Please test this woody cd image

[Eduard Bloch]

#include 
Matt Zimmerman wrote on Wed Apr 10, 2002 um 04:45:08PM:

> > Why not? Weeks != days.
> 
> 10 days != long enough to test a completely different _primary_ way of
> booting the installation system.

a) isolinux is not completely new. It is syslinux, extended with ability
   of reading iso9660. Show me one failure (caused not by general
   problems, i.e. with some laptops not beeing able to boot _any_
   mkisofs-made cdrom) and I will shut up.
b) You can insert another CD and boot, if you got problems. I am sure
   most people will do anyways.

> > Why not use _exactly_ this on the first CD, and pure idepci on 5th CD (for
> > the few cases where isolinux may break though I have _never_ heard about
> > problems with isolinux).
> 
> Sure, once it has been proven to work _for Debian_ on a wide variety of
> systems.  It would have been a great idea a couple of months ago.  Why did
> you wait until there was so much pressure to finish the release?

a) I waited for bf2.4 to get enough testing
b) I do not like idepci, which other people want to make default

> > And sorry, IMHO is idepci the worst kernel-image to be used for CD#1 as
> > the only available flavor.
> 
> It seems to work for a large number of users, and that is its only job, is
> it not?

I do not like kernels that cannot be used for anything but installation,
and even then not for installation on modern hardware. It is called
idepci but it does not support recent IDE hardware.

Gruss/Regards,
Eduard.
-- 
"I think Debian's doing something wrong, `apt-get install pesticide', doesn't
seem to remove the bugs on my system!"
-- Mike Dresser   


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Re: Please test this woody cd image

[Michael Stone]

On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 04:45:08PM -0400, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 08:33:00PM +0200, Eduard Bloch wrote:
> > And sorry, IMHO is idepci the worst kernel-image to be used for CD#1 as
> > the only available flavor.
> 
> It seems to work for a large number of users, and that is its only job, is
> it not?

Well, no. :) idepci is known to fail for people with scsi and new ide
hardware, so it's not really the best choice either. There probably is
no best choice, but a system with a menu where you can choose a choice
is probably better than any arbitrary default.

-- 
Mike Stone


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Re: GNU FDL (was Re: Bug#141561: gnu-standards: Non-free =?iso-8859-15?q?software in?= main)

[Branden Robinson]

On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 03:52:52PM -0400, Dale Scheetz wrote:
> > On Tue, Apr 09, 2002 at 02:03:11PM -0400, Dale Scheetz wrote:
> > > The history section in my book, which is declared invarient in the
> > > license, was written by Ian M. and has no technical bearing on the rest of
> > > the book's content, but has every reason to be "protected" from
> > > modification. These particular words have a value that must be protected.
> > 
> > I'll put you down as being in favor of eternal copyright, then.
> 
> Give me a break. I've never said that, and your suggestion that what I
> said implies I believe your suggestion is ... stupid.
> 
> This is exactly the kind of "distraction by misdirection" that I so
> greatly detest.

Not at all.  Copyright is exactly on point, for it is the only tool with
which you are seeking "protection" for the Debian Manifesto.  Unless you
have a patent, trade secret, or non-disclosure argument up your sleeve.

A work that is not copyrighted is in the public domain.  Hence my
reference to works which *are* in the public domain, and for which there
often exist canonical versions despite the absence of government
regulation to retain their purity.

(Sometimes there is no canonical version to point to, at least not in
one's native tongue.  What's the "canonical" modern English translation
of the _Canterbury Tales_?)

-- 
G. Branden Robinson| "Why do we have to hide from the
Debian GNU/Linux   |  police, Daddy?"
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | "Because we use vi, son.  They use
http://people.debian.org/~branden/ |  emacs."


pgpnOXqzHbhm4.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: GNU FDL (was Re: Bug#141561: gnu-standards: Non-free =?iso-8859-15?q?software in?= main)

[Branden Robinson]

On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 02:57:32PM -0500, Jeff Licquia wrote:
> On Wed, 2002-04-10 at 14:39, Steve Langasek wrote:
> > 
> > I'd be happy to hear clarifications from the author and contemporaries,
> > then; to be honest, my memory of Debian history isn't good enough to 
> > even know who to approach.  (The debian-doc package is conspicuously 
> > lacking of the relevant copyright information, btw. :)
> 
> Here's a statement from Bruce Perens:
> 
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2001/debian-legal-200111/msg00063.html

Bruce also used a questionable similarity, ignored the possibility of
authors mis-applying the license, and failed to rebut any of the points
made in response to his message (and not only by me).

-- 
G. Branden Robinson|  "I came, I saw, she conquered."
Debian GNU/Linux   |  The original Latin seems to have
[EMAIL PROTECTED] |  been garbled.
http://people.debian.org/~branden/ |  -- Robert Heinlein


pgpNS5bvp66ND.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Please test this woody cd image

[Matt Zimmerman]

On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 11:23:26PM +0200, Eduard Bloch wrote:

> #include 
> Matt Zimmerman wrote on Wed Apr 10, 2002 um 04:45:08PM:
> > 10 days != long enough to test a completely different _primary_ way of
> > booting the installation system.
> 
> a) isolinux is not completely new. It is syslinux, extended with ability
>of reading iso9660. Show me one failure (caused not by general
>problems, i.e. with some laptops not beeing able to boot _any_
>mkisofs-made cdrom) and I will shut up.

The burden of proof is on you, who want to make a change with such broad
effect so late in the release cycle.  I have never even tried isolinux,
while I have used syslinux many times.

> b) You can insert another CD and boot, if you got problems. I am sure
>most people will do anyways.

Exactly the same argument can be made for putting isolinux on the second CD.

-- 
 - mdz


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Re: /dev/ptmx suid root tty device file - Who owns this?

[David D.W. Downey]

On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 03:12:05PM +0200, Andreas Metzler wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 05:51:30AM -0700, David D. W. Downey wrote:
> [PGP-signed message]
> 
> Where is this key (C5A76BF6) available for download, neither
> keyservers, nor
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2001/debian-devel-200112/msg02249.html
> nor
> http://linuxnewbie.codecastle.com/david-downey-publickey.asc
> holds it.
>   cu andreas

My fault, I forgot to post to the keyservers.
linuxnewbie shou;l.d be updated now as should libpgsl
-- 
David D.W. Downey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Upstream - libpam-pgsql.codecastle.com
Debian - Woody: 0.5.2-2   Sid: 0.5.2-3
State - bugs.debian.org/libpam-pgsql
-BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

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r8FnBQkFo5qAAAoJECUYaxbFp2v2g0MAn3r9V0zHQnL2U/xs0Iympq+3QW3gAJ0a
3G0BsITueoFqCvHqDXRvTcZgRw==
=sD1G
-END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-

New GNUPG Key for David D.W. Downey

[David D.W. Downey]

-BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

mQGiBDyvwRcRBACH5M/fUVvXh0SvhvmkMbKcIvHaBD32O+xKMWponbIbcOvChMU0
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3G0BsITueoFqCvHqDXRvTcZgRw==
=sD1G
-END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-

-- 
David D.W. Downey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Upstream - libpam-pgsql.codecastle.com
Debian - Woody: 0.5.2-2   Sid: 0.5.2-3
State - bugs.debian.org/libpam-pgsql


pgpNO55T7GwOO.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Bug#142264: ITP: usemod -- CGI-based Wiki clone

[Benjamin Drieu]

Package: wnpp
Version: N/A; reported 2002-04-11
Severity: wishlist

* Package name: usemod
  Version : 0.92
  Upstream Author : Clifford A. Adams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://www.usemod.com/
* License : GPL
  Description : CGI-based Wiki clone

UseMod is a Wiki clone written in Perl and CGI-based.  I hereby intend
to package it.

-- System Information
Debian Release: testing/unstable
Architecture: i386
Kernel: Linux hebus 2.4.9 #5 Sun Sep 2 23:44:22 CEST 2001 i686
Locale: LANG=C, LC_CTYPE=C



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Re: GNU FDL (was Re: Bug#141561: gnu-standards: Non-free =?iso-8859-15?q?software in?= main)

[Martijn van Oosterhout]

On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 03:52:52PM -0400, Dale Scheetz wrote:
> While I'm not sure that M. Mouse should be owned by anyone but Uncle Walt,
> I understand the fear of the current copyright holder, given that I am in
> direct contact with the spirit of the original Mr. Disney. He has some
> very clear ideas about the uses of this icon, and they would not set well
> with the current "owner". Maybe I should find a lawyer and argue in court
> that the original copyright holder should be given back control of his
> intelectual property...

To be honest, I don't understand why M. Mouse cannot simply be a trademark
for Disney. They way we could have our use of the old stuff but people would
still not be able to use Mickey for nefarious purposes.

Darn, I promised not to post to this thread. Oh well...

-- 
Martijn van Oosterhouthttp://svana.org/kleptog/
> Ignorance continues to thrive when intelligent people choose to do
> nothing.  Speaking out against censorship and ignorance is the imperative
> of all intelligent people.


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David D.W. Downey - Old Key 42D8F306 Signed by New Key C5A76BF6

[David D. W. Downey]

OK, folks.

For the purposes of consistency, I've signed the old lost key with the new
key and posted both keys to the keyservers. I've put the old lost key
(Just the public key export of it of course) on
linuxnewbie.codecastle.com, devel.codecastle.com, and
admin.codecastle.com in the my_public_key/ directory along with the
ascii export of the new key.

I'm including the old 42D8F306 key in this email with the signature from
the new C5A76BF6 key. This means that it's now on the keyservers,
archived in this group (I've already sent an email with ascii export of
the new C5A76BF6 to this group), and also on the
libpam-pgsql.codecastle.com which is the upstream source site for
libpam-pgsql. It's also available on the other 3 sites I control.

I'm hereby using these emails, the signature on the old key as sent to
the keyservers, and the websites with the old and new keys as my "chain
of establishment" that the old keys was mine and that the new one is
mine.

I've also generated, and saved to CDRW, the revocation certificates for
all 3 types of revocation types as well as the secret/public key
combinations, as well as the ascii export of the old key with new
signature and ascii export of the new key.

Hopefully this will significantly establish the chain of owerships.



-BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

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Ux17fOv0
=S44V
-END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-

-- 
David D.W. Downey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Upstream - libpam-pgsql.codecastle.com
Debian - Woody: 0.5.2-2   Sid: 0.5.2-3
State - bugs.debian.org/libpam-pgsql


pgpkFT2P5lwK7.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Debian Conference 2 Registration

[Carlos Laviola]

On Sat, Apr 06, 2002 at 04:01:46PM -0500, Joe Drew wrote:
> On Sat, 2002-04-06 at 15:03, Martin Schulze wrote:
> > Joe Drew wrote:
> > > Let me re-iterate this for people who might not have gotten the message:
> > > 
> > > LINDOWS.COM HAS SPENT REAL MONEY ON DEBCONF 2 AND DESERVES SUPPORT, NOT
> > > SCORN.
> > 
> > While I don't want to squeze lindows support, I have to interpret
> > this statement like "Joey, shut up!  Somebody has spent real money
> > on Debconf and supporting it on non-free stuff, including license
> > fees to a well-known Redmond based company, they deserve support
> > for it".  Well, it doesn't make me feel better, I have to admit.
> 
> No. This is directed at the people who would mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
> mesages like "Go home proprietary l0s0rz! j00 are l4m3! Debian doesn't
> need you! Signed, [EMAIL PROTECTED]"
> 
> Sorry if it seemed that way, Joey.

Well, it seems to me like you're implying there would be
[EMAIL PROTECTED] that would be so lame that they would not know the
difference between criticizing what can be very easily criticized (i.e., this
infamous IIS server) and directly attacking someone like a script kiddie
would do.  Frankly, I expect more of my fellow developers, and I think
you should, too.

Also, it is amazing that pretty much no one else has showed disapproval
of this.  Come on, people, there is no way in the world you can convince
yourselves logically that it is okay to host a registration form in an
IIS server because "we" were given money.  I believe principles are more
important than money.

Just my $0.02.

-- 
Carlos Laviola   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Debian GNU/Linux 


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Re: Debian Conference 2 Registration

[Henrique de Moraes Holschuh]

On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Carlos Laviola wrote:
> IIS server because "we" were given money.  I believe principles are more
> important than money.

So spend your time writing the scripts. 

-- 
  "One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring
  them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond
  where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot
  Henrique Holschuh


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Re: Please test this woody cd image

[Erik Andersen]

On Wed Apr 10, 2002 at 06:02:28PM -0400, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 11:23:26PM +0200, Eduard Bloch wrote:
> 
> > #include 
> > Matt Zimmerman wrote on Wed Apr 10, 2002 um 04:45:08PM:
> > > 10 days != long enough to test a completely different _primary_ way of
> > > booting the installation system.
> > 
> > a) isolinux is not completely new. It is syslinux, extended with ability
> >of reading iso9660. Show me one failure (caused not by general
> >problems, i.e. with some laptops not beeing able to boot _any_
> >mkisofs-made cdrom) and I will shut up.
> 
> The burden of proof is on you, who want to make a change with such broad
> effect so late in the release cycle.  I have never even tried isolinux,
> while I have used syslinux many times.

Other distros (such as slackware and mandrake) are already using
isolinux in their installers.  I don't hear too many people
complaining that those distro fail to boot from CD...

 -Erik

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Erik B. Andersen http://codepoet-consulting.com/
--This message was written using 73% post-consumer electrons--


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Re: Debian Conference 2 Registration

[Joe Drew]

I promised myself that I wouldn't get into this any more, but it seems
that people still aren't understanding...

On Wed, 2002-04-10 at 20:15, Carlos Laviola wrote:
> Well, it seems to me like you're implying there would be
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] that would be so lame that they would not know the
> difference between criticizing what can be very easily criticized (i.e., this
> infamous IIS server) and directly attacking someone like a script kiddie
> would do.  Frankly, I expect more of my fellow developers, and I think
> you should, too.

I expect more of my developers, but frankly I am rather pessimistic
about the average person. I can easily imagine someone who, upon reading
this in DWN, gets it into their head that Lindows.com is evil and should
'learn their lesson' for using IIS (if indeed it is them using IIS and
not just some anonymous hosting site).

> Also, it is amazing that pretty much no one else has showed disapproval
> of this.  Come on, people, there is no way in the world you can convince
> yourselves logically that it is okay to host a registration form in an
> IIS server because "we" were given money.  I believe principles are more
> important than money.

Just like me. But I believe actions are much more important than
principles. Let me reiterate this yet again: I am not giving
preferential treatment to Lindows.com in any way. I thank them because
they are the only people who did anything regarding this registration
form. *Nobody else _did_ anything.* It's not like someone said "Hey,
here's this registration form already hosted and working" and then
Lindows.com came to me and said "Here's another one" and I chose them.
Lindows.com gave me the *only* registration form I have received,
period. 

It's not a matter of being 'okay' that they're using IIS - it's a matter
of there being no alternatives because nobody bothered to make them,
even after this thread. I think if it was important to anybody, by this
point someone would have said "Here's an alternate form." Nobody has,
and now it's way too late - the publicity has made
http://lindows.com/debconf2 the authoritative URL to register for
Debconf 2.

We don't have to debate the 'rightness' or 'wrongness' of using IIS.
It's a bit strange that Debian's using a registration page running on
IIS, but that's just the way things fell. Lindows.com did us a favour --
without them there wouldn't have been *any* registration form. Remember
that.

I hope this is the last of my replies to this thread.

-- 
Joe Drew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Please encrypt email sent to me.


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Re: David D.W. Downey - Old Key 42D8F306 Signed by New Key C5A76BF6

[christophe barbé]

On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 04:40:03PM -0700, David D. W. Downey wrote:
> For the purposes of consistency, I've signed the old lost key with the new
> key and posted both keys to the keyservers. 

...

> I'm hereby using these emails, the signature on the old key as sent to
> the keyservers, and the websites with the old and new keys as my "chain
> of establishment" that the old keys was mine and that the new one is
> mine.

...

> Hopefully this will significantly establish the chain of owerships.

I don't see how we can be sure that you (the new-key owner) are you (the
old-key owner).

As I understand it, this kind of "chain of establishment" can only work
if you sign your new key with your old one. But IIUC you lost your old
private key.

I may be wrong,
Christophe

-- 
Christophe Barbé <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
GnuPG FingerPrint: E0F6 FADF 2A5C F072 6AF8  F67A 8F45 2F1E D72C B41E

Dogs believe they are human. Cats believe they are God.


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