Re: List of interface names (eth*, dummy*, ath*, tap*)

[Loïc Minier]

On Mon, Jun 06, 2005, Florian Weimer wrote:
> See nameif(8).  Interface names can be chosen by the user.

 Hmm, no much point in preparing an interface name list indeed.  If some
 drivers name where bound to this interface names, it would be quite
 complicated anyway.

 I'm going to propose upstream to look for a default route in the main
 table, and if none exist, select the first UP interface.

   Thanks,,
-- 
Loïc Minier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
"Neutral President: I have no strong feelings one way or the other."


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Ports helping in World Domination? (was: Re: Canonical and Debian)

[Christian Perrier]

Quoting Julien BLACHE ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):

> Eh, to achieve Total World Domination, we need to support every
> architecture out of there. Looks like a step in the wrong direction ;)


Well, frankly speaking, Julien, last time I checked most of so-called
third world users mostly just don't care a shit of non i386
architectures..:-). They just want a functional operating system for
the only architecture which is really available to them, no matter
whether we like it or not.

(oh, yes, I'm also aware of the ARM-based projects in India for very
low entry-point computers...and, yes, I know that some "exotic"
hardware lies in several "black boxes")

Not saying that Debian should focus on i386 systems. Just bringing us
back to some reality.m68k, mips, mipsel ports are part of our
patrimony and being a universal OS is part of Debian specifiticy and
richnessbut we really shouldn't tell that it helps in world
domination. And, no, I'm not throwing mud at these. Just reminding us
a few facts, maybe : being able to run Debian on an Amiga doesn't help
much in world domination.



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Re: SCC (was Re: Canonical and Debian)

[Bernd Eckenfels]

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> you wrote:
> Copied from my blog:
> | The other suprising thing is that SCC seems to already be more a reality 
> than
> | was thought, since it seems Debian's main Bulgarian and Slovenian mirrors, 
> as
> | well as all of our Belarussian, Colombian, Israili, Indian, Moroccan and
> | Ukrainian mirrors, already carry only a subset of architectures. Indeed, 30%
> | of all our mirrors don't include all release architectures.

which is actually a good thing, the syncing of the mirrors is more traffic
than the few clients using those architectures.

Greetings
Bernd

ObBaitOfTheDay: why dont we release 3.2 with AMD64 RSN? Ubuntu has.


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Re: Canonical and Debian

[Kevin Mark]

On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 05:11:44PM -0400, Stephen Frost wrote:
> * Colin Watson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 02:12:00PM -0400, Stephen Frost wrote:
> > > * Steve Langasek ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:

> 
> Perhaps that issue needs to be brought up more directly with the porters
> then, if possible.  ie: Put a request out there for porters to check
> over what packages havn't been built for their architecture?  I'm not
> entirely sure if that could really be easily extracted out seperately
> from what a buildd admin does (which would imply that we *do* need more
> buildd admins if only to help with this not-directly-answering-buildd-
> emails issue).
> 
> Also, doesn't 'get required package uploads built everywhere' imply 'ask
> the buildd admins what the story wrt a current package is', at least in
> some cases?  It would seem that if it's possible to decrease the
> turn-around time on that it'd be of some benefit...
> 
Hi Stephen etc.,
IIUC, this is a summary:
make source, build package, upload i386 deb to incomming, tell wanna-build, 
[build
on buildd, upload non-i386 deb to incomming] repeat for all archs
Is the issue: 
1) buildd availability (network or amount)
2) buildd admin responcivness,
3) arch-specific issues that cause build problems for non-i386 not getting 
fixed?
(would that be the 'porters' job?)
4) buildd software issues(pbuild,sbuild,wanna-build,etc)
5) something else?
as I've never been a party to this, I'm trying to get more insight into
the 'improbability drive' that powers Debian. Do I need a pan-galactic
garggle-blaster and a towel first?
Cheers,
Kev
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Re: Re: remove me from call*wave

[Steve Miller]

Pls remove me from Call Wave 

Re: Re: Re: remove me from call*wave

[Steve Miller]

I no longer need the service.  Please remove 
me immediately.
 
thank you.

Is Luca - De Whiskey's - De Vitis MIA?

[Roberto C. Sanchez]

I am wondering what the deal is with Luca and his packages,
specifically httperf.

httperf was uploaded once, 3.5 years ago.  It has two important and one
normal bug [0].  He has never responded to any bug on httperf.

#215277: httperf: please update libssl dependency (1 year and 239 days)
#308097: httperf errors out when requesting SSL sessions (30 days)
#170060: Please move httperf to main archive (2 years and 198 days)

Of his other packages [1], his latest upload was late 2003.  He has a
number of bugs open [2] as far back as 6 years ago.  Many are
unacknowledged, including two important bugs, one regarding a policy
violation in a package description and another about a filename
collision between a package he maintains and another package.

Just wondering what, if anything, should be done.  Personally, I would
be willing to adopt httperf because I would like to see the bugs fixed.

-Roberto

[0] http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?src=httperf
[1] http://qa.debian.org/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[2] http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?maint=luca%40debian.org
-- 
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http://familiasanchez.net/~sanchezr


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Re: Bug#311997: ITP: gaim-latex -- gaim plugin wich translate LaTeX code into image in conversation

[Nicolas Schoonbroodt]

So...(sorry for English)
lot of conversation about my plugin on your mailling list.

And also a bug report on sourceforge, related to your remark.
My message will be not complete (because it's 4.50 am here and that I
must be at school at 8am)

First of all, you speak of tex2im depandency. This is not needed since
version 0.3. Now I make the next system calls :
(yep, it's not a good way, for example if /tmp doesn't exist for example)
FILE_SOMETHING represent /tmp/gaimTeX.something

chdir("/tmp")
system("latex -interaction=nonstopmode " FILE_TEX)
system("dvips -o" FILE_PS " -E " FILE_DVI)
system("convert " FILE_PS " " FILE_PNG)

and finaly a I do a
system("rm -rf /tmp/GaimTeX.*") somewhere

If you can tell me where you find the tex2im depandancy (README,
INSTALL, ...) It can help me for remove it in the next version.

Now, about the security problem...

Yes, I know it's possible to have some problems with latex call. But If
someone send
$$\input{/etc/passwd}$$
he will see (at best) the local /etc/passwd file, and the receiver, the
local /etc/passwd. So not the same.

And in reality, he well see nothing. One of the (the principal?) author
of kopeteTeX (which is compatible, for respond to one of the first
question)(the develloper is Olivier Goffart) as given me an advice, that
was to blacklist some command.

I have blacklisted the same command than kopetetex, that is :
> #define NB_BLACKLIST (42)
> #define BLACKLIST 
> {"\\def","\\let","\\futurelet","\\newcommand","\\renewcomment","\\else","\\fi","\\write","\\input","\\include","\\chardef","\\catcode","\\makeatletter","\\noexpand","\\toksdef","\\every","\\errhelp","\\errorstopmode","\\scrollmode","\\nonstopmode","\\batchmode","\\read","\\csname","\\newhelp","\\relax","\\afterground","\\afterassignment","\\expandafter","\\noexpand","\\special","\\command","\\loop","\\repeat","\\toks","\\output","\\line","\\mathcode","\\name","\\item","\\section","\\mbox","\\DeclareRobustCommand"}

So (in normal case) all of this command will not be "authorised"
(in fact, if you send a message like :
normal text \input in normal text $$equation$$ normal text $$equation $$
(or with the blacklisted command in the $$equation part$$) the message
_will not_ be transform using latex compiler. (with the is_blacklisted
function)

If some other command have to be blacklisted, I hear you.

If you have any suggestion with security problem (for example error in
my code, or latex hack to "eviter" (french word, don't know in English)
this security), you can continue the discussion here, I will read it.

Also other bug can be posted on sourceforge, for example.

Nicolas Schoonbroodt


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Bug#312282: release-notes: --guess?

[Bernd Eckenfels]

Package: general
Version: debian-doc@lists.debian.org

Hello,

the german release notes talk about the "--guess" option to deborphan,
however this is only a prefix for multiple options, I guess this should mean
"--guess-dummy" or maybe "one of the --guess*  options".

Sorry dont know which package to report this bug against, thats why i mail
directly. maybe it is a good idea to add "how to report a bug in this file",
too?

Eventually we may  also want to add a paragraph about "how to  find packages
on your system which are not (wih the corect version) in the official release"

Greetings
Bernd


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Re: And now for something completely different... etch!

[Grzegorz B. Prokopski]

On Tue, 2005-07-06 at 01:03 +0200, Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña wrote:
> [ Installation improvements ] 
> - Firewall configuration during installation (ala Fedora Core or SuSE):
>   module for d-i. Currently, the system is exposed just during installation
>   on some systems (empty root password?)

Right.  Especially for workstation installation something like below
would allow to connect from workstation to anywhere else, but not to
any servers ran on workstation.

# Already existing connections are allowed (incoming&related icmp too)
-A INPUT -p tcp -m state --state ESTABLISHED -j ACCEPT
-A INPUT -p udp -m state --state ESTABLISHED -j ACCEPT
-A INPUT -p icmp -m state --state ESTABLISHED,RELATED -j ACCEPT
# all outgoing traffic is allowed
-A OUTPUT -p tcp -m state --state NEW,ESTABLISHED,RELATED -j ACCEPT
-A OUTPUT -p udp -m state --state NEW,ESTABLISHED,RELATED -j ACCEPT
-A OUTPUT -p icmp -m state --state NEW,ESTABLISHED,RELATED -j ACCEPT

My impression was that firewall setting is generally a messy business,
because there's too many packages that mess with it, usually assuming
they're the only ones who touch it.  This was, I think part of the
reason why /etc/init.d/iptables was removed (I still use it on all of
my old and newly installed machines, btw.)  But maybe I am wrong and
somebody else could provides more details here.

> - 'Status' in init.d scripts (#291148)

...and 'zap'.  Altough it's a solution from 'should never be needed'
dept. ask yourself how many times you had to killall -9 $something.
(not that killall is the right solution for zap!)

> - inetd begone! -> xinetd (better mechanism to control DoS, privilege
>   separation, etc.)

IIRC a mechanism for *netd switching had been discussed in Woody times,
then waited for Sarge and I believe we already had some preliminary
implementation but it's still not finished.  Other distros like PLD had
that years ago, btw.

> - Separate runlevels: 2 for multi, no net, 3 for multi no X, 4 for X, 4=5

Do we really need that?  I thought I could always
enable/disable/install/remove [xgk]dm.  And are these runlevels mandated
(or at least documented) by any standard (besides 'the RH way')?  Are
they at least consistent among ~"all distros besides Debian"?

> - Better package search mechanism (tags?) allowing free text search
>   in package management interfaces: "I want a program that does X"

Doesn't 'apt-cache search X' do exactly that?

Cheers,

Grzegorz B. Prokopski
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Re: And now for something completely different... etch!

[Joey Hess]

Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña wrote:
> [ Installation improvements ] 
> - Firewall configuration during installation (ala Fedora Core or SuSE):
>   module for d-i. Currently, the system is exposed just during installation
>   on some systems (empty root password?)

This has not really been discussed on debian-boot, but one of my
personal goals for a d-i improvement for etch is that the whole system
installation takes place in d-i, there is no separate base-config stage
and you boot straight from d-i into your installed desktop system (or
whatever).

This solves your problem fairly well, since the issue then becomes only
keeping d-i secure and keeping the installed system secure, not keeping
the system secure while it's installing itself. Daemons will not be
started dueing the installation, and will come up on reboot.

Some kind of firewall task would probably complete what you're looking
for here, so the installed system boots up with a complete firewall in
place.

> - Reduced standard installation (no gcc or development tools!, see 
>   #301138 or #301273)

Absolutely going to happen, but probably not in the the way most
commonly mentioned in these bug reports. I will acept patches to tasksel
that make it offer a "Standard system" task, that is selected by default
and can be de-selected. If noone sends patches, I'll get around to it
eventually, I suppose.

> - More "tasks" (grouped packages) for installation: automatic detection
>   of user needs and automatic task selection?

Planned, and ground already laid in tasksel (and indeed, it does do it
for some easy things like language tasks). One thing I really want to
see happen is a laptop task. The big missing peice is some simple
program tasksel can call out to, like

if this_is_a_laptop; then
..
fi

This should use whatever hardware probing works best for laptops.

I'm interested in other ideas for automatic selection of default tasks.

> - Hardware changes detection: system detects after a reboot when
>   a new SVGA card, new Ethernet card, etc. has been installed and prompts
>   for new confguration.

As long as this is in a package that can be purged and/or argued over
heatedly about whether it should be installed by default. :-) In other
words, not wanted on any machine I touch.

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Re: Is Ubuntu a debian derivative or is it a fork?

[Joey Hess]

Mark Brown wrote:
> Has there been any explanation for the policy?  I'm having a hard time
> thinking of any sensible reasoning.

I can think of a few reasons, but they begin at "marketing" and go
somewhat downhill from there, so I won't even list them all. :-P

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Re: Is Ubuntu a debian derivative or is it a fork?

[Joey Hess]

John Goerzen wrote:
> If it matters, I'll add my voice to the chorus on that.  Anything that
> requires me to go off to the net to fix takes longer to fix and is
> more annoying to deal with.

In my case it can easily delay me even being able to look at the patch
for several days.

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Re: Is Ubuntu a debian derivative or is it a fork?

[Joey Hess]

Martin Michlmayr wrote:
> I, as well as others, have pointed out to Canonical on several
> occasions that their patch policy is less than optimal.  While some
> personally agree with me, it's their policy and unfortunately it won't
> change... however, maybe there's still hope, now that more people are
> expressing that they'd like to receive patches and not just links to
> patches.

Personally I will not be suprised if some procmail recipe doesn't end up
running somewhere that effectively changes this policy for them.

(Didn't you have one, tbm? :-)

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Re: Is Ubuntu a debian derivative or is it a fork?

[Joey Hess]

Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> If all of the patches were to be filed in the BTS, automation would be the
> only feasible way to do it.

Let's assume that starting tomorrow, every patch that is applied to
Ubuntu, that is not Ubuntu-specific, and not something too trivial to
worry about (such as the python or c++ transitions), is accompnied by a
handwritten email to the Debian BTS containing the patch and an
explanation. Writing such an email would surely only take a few minutes;
how many new such patches do you really create each day? How could this
not be feasable? Wouldn't this tend to highlight cases where Ubuntu is
making many useful changes to Debian and tend to get the Ubuntu people
direct commit access to those packages?

Personal communication is how development works in the entire rest of
the free software world, I really don't see why Ubuntu is different.

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SCC (was Re: Canonical and Debian)

[Joey Hess]

Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> And you can still mirror only part of the archive if you want to save
> bandwidth, even today. Indeed, and some of our mirrors are already
> doing so. It would, thus, be interesting if we could formalize that
> somehow, which is what the first bit of the proposal is all about.

This has already began to happen, check out Mirrors.masterlist (and its
shiny new amd64 entries) and see the columns for supported architectures
on the web page that lists mirrors.

Copied from my blog:
| The other suprising thing is that SCC seems to already be more a reality than
| was thought, since it seems Debian's main Bulgarian and Slovenian mirrors, as
| well as all of our Belarussian, Colombian, Israili, Indian, Moroccan and
| Ukrainian mirrors, already carry only a subset of architectures. Indeed, 30%
| of all our mirrors don't include all release architectures.

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Re: Is Ubuntu a debian derivative or is it a fork?

[Joey Hess]

Colin Watson wrote:
> I may start doing so for at least some things, as it would make merging
> easier; /people/cjwatson/automount/ is there as a start (though that's
> more experimental than Ubuntu-specific).

If you want to switch that to branches/ubuntu or something eventually, I
think that would be fine.

> I suspect that once we've got to the point where the Ubuntu-specific
> changes are on average more along the lines of handling different
> archive layouts than insanely voluminous translation changes, I'll feel
> less like I'm bloating the d-i repository up with stuff that doesn't
> benefit Debian by committing it there.

OTOH, disk space is cheap, and commits to certian paths can even be
filtered if they become too obnoxious.

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Re: Is Ubuntu a debian derivative or is it a fork?

[Joey Hess]

Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> Debian does, in fact, treat most of its upstreams precisely this way.
> Debian publishes a large portion of its changes primarily in the form of
> monolithic diffs relative to upstream source.  The last time I saw figures,
> the usage of dpatch, cdbs, etc. was rising, but not yet the standard
> operating procedure.

This is a falacy, for example, I would never use any of these (IMHO
useless at best and often damaging[1]) patch management systems (I know
of two much better ones: subversion and arch), but this does not mean
that I do not feed (and, as necessary, re-feed for new upstream
releases) individual patches to all my upstreams for every
non-debian-specific change that I make to my packages. I have no reason
to think that I'm alone in this.

On the other hand, Ubuntu does not seem to do this mutch at all unless
the Ubuntu developer involved happens to be on the Debian team for the
package (as in d-i and gnome packages).

> > (To answer the thread leader, I consider Ubuntu to be more and more of a
> > fork and less and less a derivative distribution. If Ubuntu doesn't
> > start to re-converge with Debian significantly after sarge is released,
> > and we end up with two sets of X.org packaging, etc, then I will give up
> > and just consider it purely a fork.)
> 
> Ubuntu re-converges with Debian very regularly.  I think what you meant to
> say is that you want Debian to re-converge with Ubuntu.

Not really.

> Regarding your specific example, I know of no reason why Debian couldn't use
> Ubuntu's X.org packages when Debian is ready to make the transition, but in
> the end that will be the XSF's decision, not Ubuntu's.

Let's assume that they don't (since they're not, exactly, TTBOMK). Now
does Ubuntu re-converge its X.org packaging with Debian's new
packaging, or do you stay forked?

-- 
see shy jo

[1] Based on my experiences as an a) RM reviewing patches and b) NMUer for
security holes.


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Re: Is Ubuntu a debian derivative or is it a fork?

[Joey Hess]

Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 02, 2005 at 12:27:38AM -0400, Joey Hess wrote:
> 
> > Oh, I forgot to mention that if Ubuntu continues to ignore Ian Murdock's
> > warnings about breaking compatability with debs, it will end up a fork
> > in my book even if most of the underlying code is substantially the
> > same, and this will be a very painful and damaging kind of fork too, as
> > we will get deb dependency hell.
> 
> If Ian were to approach Ubuntu (rather than, say, Slashdot) with clear and
> genuine concerns, I would be more than willing to discuss the situation with
> him to explain what we're doing and why.

As noted, it was in his blog (and elsewhere, such as some webcast
interview). I suspect he has a reason for bringing up this concern in
public not private, but I can't speak for him of course.

> > Ignoring, flaming, and pooh-poohing Ian on this, which is all the response
> > I've seen so far, is not smart. :-/
> 
> There's certainly been some amount of ignoring, but if you have records of
> anyone representing Ubuntu flaming on this subject (or any other), I'd like
> to hear about it privately.

I'm offline and it would be hard to dig up the history anyway since
planet debian has no archives, but my general impression from blog
entries that followed Ian's was, at best, dismissal.

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Re: Canonical and Debian

[Joey Hess]

Josselin Mouette wrote:
> Then how did these people end up choosing to support the same set of
> architectures as Ubuntu? I know this has been discussed to death, but I
> still fail to see which problems in Debian the Vancouver proposal can
> actually solve.

If it's a helpful datapoint, I cannot name the set of arches supported
by Canonical, And I'll bet I could find a few other distributions that
happen to support the same set of arches, because we both used fairly
obvious and logical criteria to arrive at them after all, not darts.

-- 
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Re: Is Ubuntu a debian derivative or is it a fork?

[Miles Bader]

Stephen Birch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> The question was really this, if Ubuntu created a better bug tracking
> program would Debian want to run the new software on the debian
> servers thus replacing the current bug tracking programs?

Is it better?

What I've read about Malone has been pretty vague; it would be nice to
see a concise summary of the (intended) differences between it and the
debian BTS.  Of particular interest is how well it deals with email bug
handling, lack of which seems to be the most serious problem with many
BTSs (e.g. bugzilla).

-Miles
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Re: libselinux1 - required

[Stephen Frost]

* Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> any progress on making libselinux1 a "Required" package?
> 
> the possibility of having debian/selinux is totally dependent
> on this one thing happening.
> 
> no libselinux1="Required", no debian/selinux [all dependent packages
> e.g. coreutils will be "policy violations"].

Uhhh, it's the other way around.  Get coreutils to Depend on libselinux1
and it'll be brought up to Required.  You don't get the library
"Required" first, having a library be "Required" but nothing "Required"
actually depending on it is senseless.

Stephen


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Re: Is Ubuntu a debian derivative or is it a fork?

[Stephen Birch]

Matt Zimmerman([EMAIL PROTECTED])@2005-06-06 08:38:
> > This may already happen but a good start would be to arrange for the
> > Ubuntu tools to *automatically* copy bug reports and patches on a
> > package to the packages DD.
> > 
> > That way the DD is alerted to the changes in a timely manner.
> 
> We're already working on this functionality.

Very cool.

That functionality will be a great help.

Steve


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Re: List of interface names (eth*, dummy*, ath*, tap*)

[Bernd Eckenfels]

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> you wrote:
> I'm searching for a list of interface names supported under Debian for
> the netspeed GNOME applet, preferably sorted by "user-relevance".

There is no such thing as a fixed network name, they can be renamed. However
I think you can try to prefer "eth" over "ndis" over "usb*" over "ppp" over
"tap" over "sit" over "sl"

>  The
> goal is to try to select the most relevant interface one would display
> network traffic for.

perhaps it makes sense to pick the fastes up interface or use the one with
the most transfer.

Bernd


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libselinux1 - required

[Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton]

hi,

any progress on making libselinux1 a "Required" package?

the possibility of having debian/selinux is totally dependent
on this one thing happening.

no libselinux1="Required", no debian/selinux [all dependent packages
e.g. coreutils will be "policy violations"].

l.

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Re: And now for something completely different... etch!

[Marco d'Itri]

On Jun 07, Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> - _No_ bugs in base packages (well, at least no old bugs). Base system
>   should be upgraded to latest upstream (forward patches!) this includes
>   PAM, modutils...
In my wishlist there is NO support of 2.4 kernels, so modutils would
become unneeded.
2.4.x kernels are already obsolete by now except that for some doorstop
architectures, I do not know about any other modern distribution which
still installs one.

> - inetd begone! -> xinetd (better mechanism to control DoS, privilege
>   separation, etc.)
What about you try a decent inetd instead?
Anyway, I have in my wishlist being able to easily switch *inetd
daemons.

-- 
ciao,
Marco


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Re: Canonical and Debian

[Julien BLACHE]

"Roberto C. Sanchez" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>> Last time I checked, we were all here to help this project build the
>> best OS ever.
>
> Please don't forget world domination.  I really decided to start the
> process of becoming a NM after Branded told me about his plans for total
> world domination :-)  Nothing like a good session of planning to take
> over the world to wake you up in the morning.

Eh, to achieve Total World Domination, we need to support every
architecture out of there. Looks like a step in the wrong direction ;)

JB.

-- 
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And now for something completely different... etch!

[Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña]

Ok, so sarge has been released! We should all thank the Release Team for
their hard work in putting this major release together. But... how about we
start discussing about what major release goals we want to set for Etch? 

So, without further delay, here's my "Etch-wishlist", it's biased on some
of the things I've personally worked on and would like to keep working on
for etch. I would love to hear the Release Managers opinion on what they 
believe should be Release Goals for etch besides the things we all already 
know about (non-free documentation purged from main, changes in supported 
architectures...)

Feel free to add some new items or add (hopefully new) information to the 
ones I list below:

--
[ Overall improvements ]
- _No_ bugs in base packages (well, at least no old bugs). Base system
  should be upgraded to latest upstream (forward patches!) this includes
  PAM, modutils...
 * Base packages should be co-maintained and maintainers should be
 open to help (not always the case currently)
  See  http://bugs.qa.debian.org/base-full.html
  (Personal note: packages in base packages older than a year should either
  be closed or handled properly, i.e. fixed)

[ Installation improvements ] 
- Firewall configuration during installation (ala Fedora Core or SuSE):
  module for d-i. Currently, the system is exposed just during installation
  on some systems (empty root password?)
- Reduced standard installation (no gcc or development tools!, see 
  #301138 or #301273)
- More "tasks" (grouped packages) for installation: automatic detection
  of user needs and automatic task selection?

[ Security improvements ] 
- Proper package signature checks (apt-secure, currently on experimental)
- Buffer overflow protection: ExecShield or PaX in stock kernel
- Mandatory Access Control support: SELinux support (RSBAC?)
- Possibility to recompile the distro with SPP (apt-build?). New
  i386-spp architecture?
- Proper source code audit by maintainers to detect stupid security
  bugs (/tmp/XX.?? anyone?) Recurrent things like #306893 appear all
  too often. Automatic source code audit ala lintian.debian.org? 
- MD5 / SHA-1 listing of files in ftp sites (useful for forensics analysis
  see #303961)

[ Admin improvements ]
- Possibility to startup the OS in "control" mode: select which init 
  scripts  will run, this provides a way to work-around hardware issues after
  d-i has installed the base system (personal example: #301112)
- 'Status' in init.d scripts (#291148)
- Hardware changes detection: system detects after a reboot when
  a new SVGA card, new Ethernet card, etc. has been installed and prompts
  for new confguration.
- inetd begone! -> xinetd (better mechanism to control DoS, privilege
  separation, etc.)
- Checksecurity -> live up to its name and merge changes from other distros
  and BSDs
- Security / Update managements of multiple servers from a single point.
  There's no single tool to do check the security status of many servers
  at once (like done in RedHat's Network). Use OVAL agents?
  See #253097
- Better OS backup management  -> upgrade rollback?
- Alternate bootup mechanism (dependancy based? see Solaris 10 or 
  http://www.atnf.csiro.au/people/rgooch/linux/boot-scripts/)
- Separate runlevels: 2 for multi, no net, 3 for multi no X, 4 for X, 4=5
- Using dpkg as an audit tool to detect changes in the system, not as 
  a security mechanism but to detect broken stuff (includes #155799 and #34194)

[ End user improvements ] 
- Better help/documentation search (dwww sucks, dhelp needs improvement)
  Provide a "Debian documentation center" with search functions to
  detect information in READMEs, html files, manuals relevant to a 
  free-text query?
- Proper User/Sysadmin documentation guides (similar to what RedHat or
  SuSE already provide, not FAQs or HOWTOs)
- I18n documentaion in CD-ROMs, better track of out-of-date translations
- Better package search mechanism (tags?) allowing free text search
  in package management interfaces: "I want a program that does X"

[ Release improvements ] 
- Prune packages from release based on popularity, packages which are not
  used by anyone should not go in! (not enough peer review, probably
  not audited, bug ridden with bugs, including security making security
  handling a nightmare)
- Remove _all_ out of date dummy packages! (see #308711 and other bugs!)
- Better (not manual!) tracking of bugs associated with testing release
--

Regards

Javier


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Re: Bug#311997: ITP: gaim-latex -- gaim plugin wich translate LaTeX code into image in conversation

[Daniel Jacobowitz]

On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 02:21:26PM -0700, Daniel Burrows wrote:
> On Monday 06 June 2005 01:11 pm, H. S. Teoh wrote:
> > > Make a version which generates the image on the sending side?
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > That would be a *very* nice plugin. The bad thing about the current
> > plugin isn't only the security concern: it requires that the recipient
> > have the plugin installed. If the image is generated on the sending
> > side, it solves the security problem, and also makes it possible to
> > send (La)TeX fragments to arbitrary recipients with no additional
> > hassle. I think this is worth considering.
> 
>   But then you can only use the plugin if you can send images, which is 
> almost 
> never the case for me (image-sending never seems to work even if I'm using 
> AIM, maybe because I'm behind a firewall).

This I don't know anything about, but it seems like a good thing to fix
instead of shoehorning LaTeX into the textual portion.

-- 
Daniel Jacobowitz
CodeSourcery, LLC


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Re: Canonical and Debian

[Peter 'p2' De Schrijver]

On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 11:24:14PM +0200, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 07:22:08PM +0200, Peter 'p2' De Schrijver wrote:
> > > * Split the architectures over two sets of mirror networks, so that
> > >   mirror administrators don't need 100G just to mirror Debian anymore.
> > 
> > That sounds retarded in an age where a 200GB HD cost less then 100 Euro...
> > Anyway you can always decide to mirror only part of the archive if you
> > want to, even today.
> 
> Oh, come on! That's not a serious argument, is it?
> 
> First, to run a reliable mirror, one hard disk isn't going to get you
> there -- you need several in some sort of a RAID setup.
> 

I don't think this argument holds for lightly used parts of the mirror.
And if the disk breaks, too bad, just download the lost bits again.
I find it hard to believe you would need an enterprise class storage
system to store a lightly used mirror. Even with raid 1 it would still
be under 200 euro.

> Second, I have yet to see the first mirror that mirrors Debian
> exclusively. Most mirror Debian and some other sites.
> 

I didn't say all of the mirror should be on 1 disk :)

> Third, the 100G isn't a constant number. It will most likely jump up
> high in a few weeks, as we split a new testing off of unstable and leave
> woody to become oldstable.
> 

It most likely won't double in the next half year :)

> Fourth, adding the architectures that are waiting around the corner
> (amd64, kFreeBSD, ...) will the disk space requirements even more.
> 

Yes. Disk prices go down though. As long as debian doesn't grow faster
then disks become cheaper, we're fine.

> Fifth, many of our mirror admins want this -- the proof is easy, just
> look at the number of mirrors that does already drop a few from the list
> of mirrorred architectures even today. That even includes at least one
> primary mirror.
> 

Aha. So there is no reason to change anything, as those who wish to only
mirror part of the archive already can do that now.

> > Downloading 5GiB takes about 1 and 12 minutes on a 2Mbit/s link...
> > 2Mbit/s is hardly state of the art in IP networks... (state of the art
> > is more like 40GBit/s). And you can still mirror only part of the
> > archive if you want to save bandwidth, even today.
> 
> Indeed, and some of our mirrors are already doing so. It would, thus, be
> interesting if we could formalize that somehow, which is what the first
> bit of the proposal is all about.
> 

But as you say, this is being done right now. No reason to change
anything.

> > The current list doesn't make much sense at all.
> 
> Some elements in the current list don't, indeed. Some do.
> 
> > Some points just don't make any sense (like limiting the number of
> > buildds, or just outright refusing the arch for no reason,...)
> 
> Those are indeed two elements that I personally would like to see
> removed. But the idea of requiring that an architecture fulfills some
> basic quality criteria isn't too silly.
> 

Yes. The basic quality criterium which makes sense is that the packages
in the archive work. The 98% criterium doesn't make any sense as it
might not make sense to have some packages on some architectures.

Happy Hacking,

p2.


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Bug#312269: ITP: emile -- Early Mac Image LoadEr, a bootloader for m68k macs

[Wouter Verhelst]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Wouter Verhelst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

* Package name: emile
  Version : 0.9, probably (not released yet, still CVS version
at this point)
  Upstream Author : Laurent Vivier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://emile.sf.net/
* License : GPL
  Description : Early Mac Image LoadEr, a bootloader for m68k macs

EMILE is a loader for booting Linux on m68k Macintosh computers. In
contrast to the Penguin booter, EMILE does not require a working MacOS
installation; it thus allows on to boot GNU/Linux directly, rather than
having to boot MacOS first before being able to load the Penguin booter
and GNU/Linux.

Although fully functional, EMILE is not (yet) without its share of
problems at this point in time, though; people less experienced with
running GNU/Linux are probaly still safer off using the Penguin booter.

-- System Information:
Debian Release: 3.1
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (500, 'unstable'), (500, 'testing')
Architecture: powerpc (ppc)
Shell:  /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash
Kernel: Linux 2.6.11.11
Locale: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] (charmap=UTF-8)


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Re: Bug#311997: ITP: gaim-latex -- gaim plugin wich translate LaTeX code into image in conversation

[Martin Braure de Calignon]

Le lundi 06 juin 2005 à 13:11 -0700, H. S. Teoh a écrit :
> On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 04:00:47PM -0400, Daniel Jacobowitz wrote:
> > 
> > Make a version which generates the image on the sending side?
> [...]
> 
> That would be a *very* nice plugin. The bad thing about the current
> plugin isn't only the security concern: it requires that the recipient
> have the plugin installed. If the image is generated on the sending
> side, it solves the security problem, and also makes it possible to
> send (La)TeX fragments to arbitrary recipients with no additional
> hassle. I think this is worth considering.
> 

Of course, it would be nice, but does gaim know how to insert an image
in the conversation ?
For me, (with jabber protocol), the "insert image" icon is disabled.
Of course, I can send the image, but it is less usefull...


--
Martin Braure de Calignon


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Re: Canonical and Debian

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 05:39:58PM +0200, Ingo Juergensmann wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 04:50:35PM +0200, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> > On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 02:00:47PM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> > > Then what do you mean? There are several architectures with porters
> > > ready to do huge amounts of porting work. For example, would you dare to
> > > say m68k is lacking manpower?
> > We can speak for ourselves, thank you.
> 
> Oh, really?

What the hell is that supposed to mean?

Yes, really. I've been thinking about the proposal myself, and it is
quite a few miles away from the position Josselin is defending here.
I've (informally) talked to a few of my co-porters, and those I did talk
to seem to think the same way.

We're currently in the process of trying to formalize our position, so
that we can discuss the proposal with those who proposed it and work out
an alternative with the bugs removed.

Happy now?

-- 
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pavement is precisely one bananosecond


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Re: Canonical and Debian

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 07:22:08PM +0200, Peter 'p2' De Schrijver wrote:
> > * Split the architectures over two sets of mirror networks, so that
> >   mirror administrators don't need 100G just to mirror Debian anymore.
> 
> That sounds retarded in an age where a 200GB HD cost less then 100 Euro...
> Anyway you can always decide to mirror only part of the archive if you
> want to, even today.

Oh, come on! That's not a serious argument, is it?

First, to run a reliable mirror, one hard disk isn't going to get you
there -- you need several in some sort of a RAID setup.

Second, I have yet to see the first mirror that mirrors Debian
exclusively. Most mirror Debian and some other sites.

Third, the 100G isn't a constant number. It will most likely jump up
high in a few weeks, as we split a new testing off of unstable and leave
woody to become oldstable.

Fourth, adding the architectures that are waiting around the corner
(amd64, kFreeBSD, ...) will the disk space requirements even more.

Fifth, many of our mirror admins want this -- the proof is easy, just
look at the number of mirrors that does already drop a few from the list
of mirrorred architectures even today. That even includes at least one
primary mirror.

> Downloading 5GiB takes about 1 and 12 minutes on a 2Mbit/s link...
> 2Mbit/s is hardly state of the art in IP networks... (state of the art
> is more like 40GBit/s). And you can still mirror only part of the
> archive if you want to save bandwidth, even today.

Indeed, and some of our mirrors are already doing so. It would, thus, be
interesting if we could formalize that somehow, which is what the first
bit of the proposal is all about.

> > * Create a set of rules that an architecture has to abide by in order to
> >   be allowed to release. This set of rules would be there to make sure
> >   that a port's porters, rather than the set of release managers, ftp
> >   masters and the like, do all the work in making the port work.
> >   Provided that set of rules is sensible (which I'm not entirely sure of
> >   right now, but that can be fixed), there's nothing wrong with such a
> >   suggestion.
> > 
> 
> The current list doesn't make much sense at all.

Some elements in the current list don't, indeed. Some do.

> Some points just don't make any sense (like limiting the number of
> buildds, or just outright refusing the arch for no reason,...)

Those are indeed two elements that I personally would like to see
removed. But the idea of requiring that an architecture fulfills some
basic quality criteria isn't too silly.

> > While it is indeed very likely that only amd64, i386, and (perhaps)
> > powerpc fall in the first thread, the same is very much not true for the
> > second set.
> 
> The second set is also not debian. It's not based on the same source
> packages, it has different release cycles, it has a different testing
> repository and we will have 6 or more of those variants
> (mips,sparc,alpha,hppa,m68k,arm) all called 'etch'.
> 
> So effectively this proposal kills 82% of debian, causes more work and
> more confusion.

There are certainly some bugs in the current proposal; I'm not contesting
that. However, they're not unfixable.

-- 
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Re: Bug#311997: ITP: gaim-latex -- gaim plugin wich translate LaTeX code into image in conversation

[Daniel Burrows]

On Monday 06 June 2005 01:11 pm, H. S. Teoh wrote:
> > Make a version which generates the image on the sending side?
>
> [...]
>
> That would be a *very* nice plugin. The bad thing about the current
> plugin isn't only the security concern: it requires that the recipient
> have the plugin installed. If the image is generated on the sending
> side, it solves the security problem, and also makes it possible to
> send (La)TeX fragments to arbitrary recipients with no additional
> hassle. I think this is worth considering.

  But then you can only use the plugin if you can send images, which is almost 
never the case for me (image-sending never seems to work even if I'm using 
AIM, maybe because I'm behind a firewall).

  One possible middle-ground (after all, parsing and generating nice-looking 
forumale without TeX is annoying) would be to validate expressions before 
handing them to LaTeX.  Define a very strict grammar which excludes most 
function calls and enforce it; poorly formed expressions would just be 
displayed literally.

  I'm thinking of something like

EXPR ::= EXPR EXPR | "{" EXPR "}" | "\frac{"EXPR"}{" EXPR "}"
| EXPR "_" EXPR | EXPR "^" EXPR | "+" | "-"
|  | \sum | \prod | ...

  i.e., just allow the most common expression-forming stuff plus the various 
mathematical symbols (which are all safe).  Teach your favorite parser 
generator about this, validate all incoming text, and you should be fairly 
safe.  It's not as complete as the unrestricted form, but IMO it covers most 
of what you'd want to use in IMs.

  Daniel

-- 
/--- Daniel Burrows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> --\
|  It is hard to think of anything  |
|  less sentient than a pumpkin.|
|-- Terry Pratchett, _Witches Abroad_   |
\- Does your computer have Super Cow Powers? --- http://www.debian.org -/


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Re: Is Ubuntu a debian derivative or is it a fork?

[Andreas Tille]

On Mon, 6 Jun 2005, Matt Zimmerman wrote:


heard of Knoppix, Morphix,

They do not provide an apt-get - able Debian mirror.


They provide free software in .deb format.

Not really - as far as you don't consider dpkg-repack they do not
really, but we could spent our time better than just splittig hairs.


As far as I know, the interesting extensions that Knoppix adds to Debian are
still not integrated into Debian, nor are ITPs filed, nor patches filed in
the BTS, despite repeated discussions about this over the past several
years.  There is an Alioth project which has no activity.  Have I missed
some new development in this area?  You seem to imply that you had some
success.

Well, this project here is completely irrelevant and does not have
the goal to move single packages of Knoppix but tho generate a live
CD completely out of the Debian mirror.  This at first needs that
all external software which is needed will be moved to Debian mirror.
It is not your fault if you did not noticed that I did a certain (even
if small part in this direction) when I filed RFPs and sponsored some
packages.  My intention was to give arguments that I'm busy to try
to enforce cooperation of this kind of projects.  I will not spend my
time in providing even links just to make you believe me.  Just
imagine that I did nothing if it helps you.

I think it is more than time that I stop posting to this thread
because those who were willing to understand what I wrote seemed
to did so - others will not convinced anyway.

Kind regards

   Andreas.

--
http://fam-tille.de


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Re: Canonical and Debian

[Stephen Frost]

* Colin Watson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 02:12:00PM -0400, Stephen Frost wrote:
> > * Steve Langasek ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > > Clone yourself and make yourself a slave to the buildds for 7 or 8
> > > architectures, so that the release team doesn't have to.  Neither the
> > 
> > Whoah, whoah, whoah, is this actually an option?  Last I checked that
> > answer was 'no'.  Hell, that's most of the *problem* here.  The limited
> > set of people running the buildds don't want to spend more time but
> > being allowed to be a buildd maintainer seems to be limited to a rather
> > small set of folks.  There seems to be a few different reasons for this,
> > but one of the big ones is wanna-build access, I believe.  This is
> > because of limitations of the current wanna-build framework, which may
> > have now been resolved?
> 
> I don't think Steve was talking about needing more buildd maintainers;
> he was talking about the task of chasing up issues involved in trying to
> get required package uploads built everywhere, which currently ends up
> being a very significant time drain on the release team (since that's
> the set of people who know which uploads have the highest priority).

Perhaps that issue needs to be brought up more directly with the porters
then, if possible.  ie: Put a request out there for porters to check
over what packages havn't been built for their architecture?  I'm not
entirely sure if that could really be easily extracted out seperately
from what a buildd admin does (which would imply that we *do* need more
buildd admins if only to help with this not-directly-answering-buildd-
emails issue).

Also, doesn't 'get required package uploads built everywhere' imply 'ask
the buildd admins what the story wrt a current package is', at least in
some cases?  It would seem that if it's possible to decrease the
turn-around time on that it'd be of some benefit...

Thanks,

Stephen


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Re: Canonical and Debian

[Roberto C. Sanchez]

On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 07:58:13PM +0100, Colin Watson wrote:
> 
> I don't think Steve was talking about needing more buildd maintainers;
> he was talking about the task of chasing up issues involved in trying to
> get required package uploads built everywhere, which currently ends up
> being a very significant time drain on the release team (since that's
> the set of people who know which uploads have the highest priority).
> 

Is there a public list available somewhere (maybe on a Wiki page) where
the release time can publish what they consider to be priorities.  Maybe
I misunderstand, but it seems like it would be easier for people to help
with high priority items when they know what is considered high priority
by the people they are trying to help.  We already do this with the BTS
(i.e., associating severity levels with bugs) so that if some random
person comes along they know which bugs are considered high priority for
a particular package and which need the most help.

-Roberto

-- 
Roberto C. Sanchez
http://familiasanchez.net/~sanchezr


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Re: List of interface names (eth*, dummy*, ath*, tap*)

[Petter Reinholdtsen]

[Loïc Minier]
>  I'm searching for a list of interface names supported under Debian
>  for the netspeed GNOME applet, preferably sorted by
>  "user-relevance".  The goal is to try to select the most relevant
>  interface one would display network traffic for.

Are you aware of the getifaddrs() library call?


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Re: Canonical and Debian

[Roberto C. Sanchez]

On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 05:52:08PM +0200, Julien BLACHE wrote:
> Thomas Bushnell BSG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> >>> accusing people of being members of a Canonical-controlled cabal when they
> >>> do you the courtesy of informing you about their personal priorities for
> >>> etch.  Your choice.
> >>
> >> "personal priorities", that's a good summary for the Vancouver
> >> proposal, indeed.
> >
> > Are you willing to have Debian dictate your work to you?
> 
> If you're not willing to maintain your packages on the architectures
> supported by the Project (assuming it is possible, ie the packages
> aren't arch-specific), then you're not helping the project, and you'd
> better spend your time on another one.
> 
> Last time I checked, we were all here to help this project build the
> best OS ever.
> 

Please don't forget world domination.  I really decided to start the
process of becoming a NM after Branded told me about his plans for total
world domination :-)  Nothing like a good session of planning to take
over the world to wake you up in the morning.

(Just kidding, Branden)

-Roberto

-- 
Roberto C. Sanchez
http://familiasanchez.net/~sanchezr


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Re: Canonical and Debian

[Bill Allombert]

On Sun, Jun 05, 2005 at 06:05:53PM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote:
> Clone yourself and make yourself a slave to the buildds for 7 or 8

Yes, that is what I plan do to.

> architectures, so that the release team doesn't have to.  Neither the
> release team nor the FTP team is interested in being responsible for keeping
> all of these architectures afloat.  

Does that mean the FTP-masters that are also buildd admin for some of
those architectures will step down from that position ?

Cheers,
-- 
Bill. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Imagine a large red swirl here.


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Re: New Nokia device is Debian-based?

[John Hasler]

I wrote:
> You don't need any money and you don't need to sue Microsoft.  If you have
> proof of prior art for a software patent please contact one of the many
> organizations fighting such patents, such as the Free Software Foundation
> .

Michelle Konzack writes:
> Hmmm, should I conntact them to make troble with M$ and friends ?

Please do.

I wrote:
> BTW I assume that by "under a PD" you mean released into the public domain?
> It is not possible for a work to be both "public domain" and "educational
> use only".

Michelle Konzack writes:
> In the USA but in Germany...

I doubt that the definition of public domain is significantly different in
Germany.

> I have found source code of SCO in Linux and Linux code in SCO, BUT it is
> OpenSCO and this part was GPLed. I have the OpenSCO CD's at home, and I
> know what I am talking about.

It is quite legal for SCO to distribute GPL software as long as they comply
with the license.

> But SCO tell us, there is stolen Source-Code!

When the court ordered SCO to produce that code they admitted there was
none.

> The Judges in the USA have never seen the SCO-Source in original and now?

The judges have access to everything.


BTW the company that now calls itself SCO is not the original SCO.  It used
to be called Caldera and was a Linux company.  It bought SCO's Unix
business (and the name SCO) from SCO.  At about the time that it sued IBM
it changed its name to "The SCO Group" and now calls itself SCO.
-- 
John Hasler


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Re: List of interface names (eth*, dummy*, ath*, tap*)

[Florian Weimer]

* Loïc Minier:

>  I'm searching for a list of interface names supported under Debian for
>  the netspeed GNOME applet, preferably sorted by "user-relevance".  The
>  goal is to try to select the most relevant interface one would display
>  network traffic for.

See nameif(8).  Interface names can be chosen by the user.

Re: Canonical and Debian

[Miros/law Baran]

6.06.2005 pisze Josselin Mouette ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):

> You're forgetting that some people like Marco d'Itri believe the best OS
> ever should integrate the latest and fullest set of non-free crap we can
> find, and not that it should include all architectures we can reasonably
> support.

Don't you think, that you're just a little bit too paranoid and
dishonest even for a debian-devel? Uncontrolled paranoia could be
definitely bad for you other personalities, you could just try to be
more nice to them.

Jubal

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[ BOF2510053411, makabra.knm.org.pl/~baran/, alchemy pany ] [ The Answer ] 

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you!" 
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List of interface names (eth*, dummy*, ath*, tap*)

[Loïc Minier]

Hi,

 I'm searching for a list of interface names supported under Debian for
 the netspeed GNOME applet, preferably sorted by "user-relevance".  The
 goal is to try to select the most relevant interface one would display
 network traffic for.

 It seems to me I came across such a list in a Debian package in the
 past, but I can't recall where it was.

 (Of course, I'll resort to listing modules in the kernel and in
 *-source and *-driver packages to try to build a list if I can't find
 one, but I hope someone has a list handy.)

   Thanks,
PS: yeah ath* is not in Debian
-- 
Loïc Minier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
"Neutral President: I have no strong feelings one way or the other."


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Re: Canonical and Debian

[Josselin Mouette]

Le lundi 06 juin 2005 à 17:52 +0200, Julien BLACHE a écrit :
> If you're not willing to maintain your packages on the architectures
> supported by the Project (assuming it is possible, ie the packages
> aren't arch-specific), then you're not helping the project, and you'd
> better spend your time on another one.
> 
> Last time I checked, we were all here to help this project build the
> best OS ever.

You're forgetting that some people like Marco d'Itri believe the best OS
ever should integrate the latest and fullest set of non-free crap we can
find, and not that it should include all architectures we can reasonably
support.
-- 
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: :' :   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
`. `'[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  `-  Debian GNU/Linux -- The power of freedom


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Re: Bug#311997: ITP: gaim-latex -- gaim plugin wich translate LaTeX code into image in conversation

[H. S. Teoh]

On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 04:00:47PM -0400, Daniel Jacobowitz wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 08:45:11PM +0200, Martin Braure de Calignon wrote:
> > Le lundi 06 juin 2005 à 14:28 -0400, Anthony DeRobertis a écrit :
> > > Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:
> > > Ummm, I think you've missed my point. The thread is discussing a GAIM
> > > (instant message client) plugin. So that script is not run by you, it is
> > > run by an arbitrary stranger sending you an instant message, but on your
> > > machine and as you. That's why its a problem.
> > > 
> > > Looks like if you installed this package, I could send you an IM and
> > > overwrite an arbitrary file on your machine.
> > > 
> > > [This is just judging from the code snippet posted; don't have time to
> > > fully audit the software.]
> > > 
> > > 
> > Well, you're right.
> > So I think I won't package it. Do I have to do something special with
> > the BTS ? Close the bug ? add a wont-fix tag ?
> 
> Make a version which generates the image on the sending side?
[...]

That would be a *very* nice plugin. The bad thing about the current
plugin isn't only the security concern: it requires that the recipient
have the plugin installed. If the image is generated on the sending
side, it solves the security problem, and also makes it possible to
send (La)TeX fragments to arbitrary recipients with no additional
hassle. I think this is worth considering.


T

-- 
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Re: Bug#311997: ITP: gaim-latex -- gaim plugin wich translate LaTeX code into image in conversation

[Daniel Jacobowitz]

On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 08:45:11PM +0200, Martin Braure de Calignon wrote:
> Le lundi 06 juin 2005 à 14:28 -0400, Anthony DeRobertis a écrit :
> > Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:
> > Ummm, I think you've missed my point. The thread is discussing a GAIM
> > (instant message client) plugin. So that script is not run by you, it is
> > run by an arbitrary stranger sending you an instant message, but on your
> > machine and as you. That's why its a problem.
> > 
> > Looks like if you installed this package, I could send you an IM and
> > overwrite an arbitrary file on your machine.
> > 
> > [This is just judging from the code snippet posted; don't have time to
> > fully audit the software.]
> > 
> > 
> Well, you're right.
> So I think I won't package it. Do I have to do something special with
> the BTS ? Close the bug ? add a wont-fix tag ?

Make a version which generates the image on the sending side?

-- 
Daniel Jacobowitz
CodeSourcery, LLC


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Bug#312256: ITP: washngo -- Web Authoring System for Haskell

[John Goerzen]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: John Goerzen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

* Package name: washngo
  Version : 2.3.1
  Upstream Author : Peter Thiemann
* URL : 
http://www.informatik.uni-freiburg.de/~thiemann/haskell/WASH/
* License : 3-clause BSD
  Description : Web Authoring System for Haskell

 WASH is a family of embedded domain specific languages (EDSL) for
 programming Web applications. Each language is embedded in the
 functional language Haskell, which means that it is implemented as a
 combinator library.
 .
 Currently, WASH has the following components:
 .
 wash2hs, a preprocessor for including literal XHTML fragments in the
 style of Haskell Server Pages (HSP) 
 .
 WASH/CGI for server-side web scripting
 .
 WASH/HTML for dynamic generation of HTML and XHTML
 .
 WASH/Mail for email processing

I expect one binary to be built from the source at this time, and it
will be named libghc6-wash-dev.

-- System Information:
Debian Release: 3.1
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (500, 'unstable')
Architecture: i386 (i686)
Shell:  /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash
Kernel: Linux 2.6.12-rc4-mm2
Locale: LANG=C, LC_CTYPE=C (charmap=ANSI_X3.4-1968)


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Re: Canonical and Debian

[Colin Watson]

On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 02:12:00PM -0400, Stephen Frost wrote:
> * Steve Langasek ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > Clone yourself and make yourself a slave to the buildds for 7 or 8
> > architectures, so that the release team doesn't have to.  Neither the
> 
> Whoah, whoah, whoah, is this actually an option?  Last I checked that
> answer was 'no'.  Hell, that's most of the *problem* here.  The limited
> set of people running the buildds don't want to spend more time but
> being allowed to be a buildd maintainer seems to be limited to a rather
> small set of folks.  There seems to be a few different reasons for this,
> but one of the big ones is wanna-build access, I believe.  This is
> because of limitations of the current wanna-build framework, which may
> have now been resolved?

I don't think Steve was talking about needing more buildd maintainers;
he was talking about the task of chasing up issues involved in trying to
get required package uploads built everywhere, which currently ends up
being a very significant time drain on the release team (since that's
the set of people who know which uploads have the highest priority).

-- 
Colin Watson   [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Is Ubuntu a debian derivative or is it a fork?

[Matt Zimmerman]

On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 02:13:50AM -0700, Stephen Birch wrote:
> Matt Zimmerman([EMAIL PROTECTED])@2005-06-05 12:55:
> > I don't think there exists a bug tracking system which meets this need
> > today, which is why Canonical is developing a bug tracking system which is
> > designed to meet the needs of open source projects collaborating with each
> > other on common code bases (Malone).
> 
> That is interesting.
> 
> Is it your hope that the debian project will switch to the new software
> so ubuntu can stop running an independent bug tracker?

It is our hope that no broad migration of any organization's bug tracking
will be necessary in order for it to be useful to individuals who would like
to use it.

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Re: Is Ubuntu a debian derivative or is it a fork?

[Matt Zimmerman]

On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 08:28:26AM +0200, Andreas Tille wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Jun 2005, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> 
> >This seems incredible to me.  What did you mean by this?  You have never
> >heard of Knoppix, Morphix,
> They do not provide an apt-get - able Debian mirror.

They provide free software in .deb format.

> >apt-get.org?
> It's kind of funny that you try to compare apt-get.org with Ubuntu 
> universe. :)

"I was not aware that there is something in parallel in this universe that
the Debian mirrors which is providing *.deb packages of free software"

I'm not sure that I have understood your sentence correctly, given what you
just said.

> >Ubuntu is a derivative of Debian; this is what it has always been.  It is
> >different from some other derivatives in that it is derived at the source
> >level, and does not use binary packages from Debian.
> Yes. And my question was: Why?

As far as I know you have not asked this question before.  Some of the
reasons for using our own build infrastructure are:

- Assurance that the builds we distribute are reproducible in an Ubuntu
  environment
- Being able to carry out large-scale dependency transitions (such as moving
  to a new version of a shared library)
- Avoiding dependence on Debian infrastructure
- Consistent, clean builds (no binaries are uploaded by individual
  developers in a potentially tainted environment)
- The ability to experiment with compile-time enhancements, such as
  proactive security

>  You told yourself that the man power is so low.

That was in discussion of an entirely different point.

> Perhaps you start understanding that I ask this question not to offend but
> to help you because I'm happy about the things Ubuntu also gave back to
> Debian.  I never asked those questions to random Debian derivatives,  but
> feel free to search the debian-knoppix list archive where I voted for
> integration of cruxial software for Knoppix right into Debian do take the
> burden from Klaus Knopper.  It might be that I had some glasses of beer
> with Klaus that he got my arguing right ...

As far as I know, the interesting extensions that Knoppix adds to Debian are
still not integrated into Debian, nor are ITPs filed, nor patches filed in
the BTS, despite repeated discussions about this over the past several
years.  There is an Alioth project which has no activity.  Have I missed
some new development in this area?  You seem to imply that you had some
success.

-- 
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Re: Bug#311997: ITP: gaim-latex -- gaim plugin wich translate LaTeX code into image in conversation

[Martin Braure de Calignon]

Le lundi 06 juin 2005 à 14:28 -0400, Anthony DeRobertis a écrit :
> Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:
> Ummm, I think you've missed my point. The thread is discussing a GAIM
> (instant message client) plugin. So that script is not run by you, it is
> run by an arbitrary stranger sending you an instant message, but on your
> machine and as you. That's why its a problem.
> 
> Looks like if you installed this package, I could send you an IM and
> overwrite an arbitrary file on your machine.
> 
> [This is just judging from the code snippet posted; don't have time to
> fully audit the software.]
> 
> 
Well, you're right.
So I think I won't package it. Do I have to do something special with
the BTS ? Close the bug ? add a wont-fix tag ?

Cheers,

--
Martin Braure de Calignon


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Re: Canonical and Debian

[Julien BLACHE]

Thomas Bushnell BSG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>>> accusing people of being members of a Canonical-controlled cabal when they
>>> do you the courtesy of informing you about their personal priorities for
>>> etch.  Your choice.
>>
>> "personal priorities", that's a good summary for the Vancouver
>> proposal, indeed.
>
> Are you willing to have Debian dictate your work to you?

If you're not willing to maintain your packages on the architectures
supported by the Project (assuming it is possible, ie the packages
aren't arch-specific), then you're not helping the project, and you'd
better spend your time on another one.

Last time I checked, we were all here to help this project build the
best OS ever.

JB.

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Re: Is Ubuntu a debian derivative or is it a fork?

[Matt Zimmerman]

On Sun, Jun 05, 2005 at 07:45:58AM +0100, Stephen Birch wrote:

> On Thu, 2005-06-02 at 00:53 -0700, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> 
> > There isn't much that I can do about packages that I don't maintain; we have
> > some tools for this, but it is primarily a matter of personal preference
> > (and not Debian dogma) how packages are maintained in Debian.  If there is
> > some concrete way that you feel that we can help encourage team-oriented
> > maintenance of packages, I'd like to hear it.
> 
> Excellent!!
> 
> This may already happen but a good start would be to arrange for the
> Ubuntu tools to *automatically* copy bug reports and patches on a
> package to the packages DD.
> 
> That way the DD is alerted to the changes in a timely manner.

We're already working on this functionality.

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Re: Bug#311997: ITP: gaim-latex -- gaim plugin wich translate LaTeX code into image in conversation

[Roberto C. Sanchez]

On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 02:28:55PM -0400, Anthony DeRobertis wrote:
> Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:
> 
> > At some point, you do need to execute something on your machine, else
> > you may as well unplug it and find something else to do.  I understand
> > what you are saying, but we can't put everyone in a small padded room.
> > Based on your assessment, we would have cause to seek the removal of
> > latex, vi, emacs, cat and less.
> 
> Ummm, I think you've missed my point. The thread is discussing a GAIM
> (instant message client) plugin. So that script is not run by you, it is
> run by an arbitrary stranger sending you an instant message, but on your
> machine and as you. That's why its a problem.
> 
> Looks like if you installed this package, I could send you an IM and
> overwrite an arbitrary file on your machine.
> 
> [This is just judging from the code snippet posted; don't have time to
> fully audit the software.]
> 

OK.  My mistake.  I understood the program to run the code on your
machine and then send the graphic across the connection.  I think that
would be more usable (only the sender needs gaim-latex) and much safer.

-Roberto

-- 
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http://familiasanchez.net/~sanchezr


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Re: Canonical and Debian

[Michelle Konzack]

Am 2005-06-06 10:50:08, schrieb Matt Zimmerman:
> On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 07:22:08PM +0200, Peter 'p2' De Schrijver wrote:
> 
> > That sounds retarded in an age where a 200GB HD cost less then 100 Euro...
> > Anyway you can always decide to mirror only part of the archive if you
> > want to, even today.
> 
> Those who followed the dozens of earlier discussions about mirror space
> realize that this argument does not withstand comparison with the facts
> about the mirror network.

This is what I not understand, because I have a full /debian-archive
and WOODY mirror (including many CDs) and it use 420 GByte (4x 147
GByte) and now, POTATO is gone on .

If I can pay privatly why is it gone on Debian ?

If someone like to mirror something, she/he should mirror what she/he
need and what she/he can support.

Now I try to add 4-6 new 147 GByte Drives to mirror WOODY (bin+src+cd)
which is around 110 GByte and then SARGE which is around 250 GByte.

So, whre is THE problem ?

Please note, that I will migrate to Marrakech/Morocco and try to
create a new Enterprise which reqires at least a Dual-E3 (=68 MBit)
and I like to reserve 20 MBit for Debian. (but curently missing
some E3 Modules for my 3Com Routers)

Greetings
Michelle

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Re: Bug#311997: ITP: gaim-latex -- gaim plugin wich translate LaTeX code into image in conversation

[Anthony DeRobertis]

Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:

> At some point, you do need to execute something on your machine, else
> you may as well unplug it and find something else to do.  I understand
> what you are saying, but we can't put everyone in a small padded room.
> Based on your assessment, we would have cause to seek the removal of
> latex, vi, emacs, cat and less.

Ummm, I think you've missed my point. The thread is discussing a GAIM
(instant message client) plugin. So that script is not run by you, it is
run by an arbitrary stranger sending you an instant message, but on your
machine and as you. That's why its a problem.

Looks like if you installed this package, I could send you an IM and
overwrite an arbitrary file on your machine.

[This is just judging from the code snippet posted; don't have time to
fully audit the software.]


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Re: Bug#311997: ITP: gaim-latex -- gaim plugin wich translate LaTeX code into image in conversation

[Roberto C. Sanchez]

On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 02:14:51PM -0400, Anthony DeRobertis wrote:
> Martin Braure de Calignon wrote:
> 
> > Quoting tex2im code:
> > 
> > (...)
> > latex -interaction=batchmode out.tex > /dev/null
> > cd "$homedir"
> > dvips -o $tmpdir/out.eps -E $tmpdir/out.dvi 2> /dev/null
> > (...)
> > convert +adjoin -antialias -transparent $color1 -density $resolution
> > $tmpdir/out.eps $tmpdir/out.$format
> > (...)
> > #
> > So they directly use latex.
> 
> This looks like a Bad Idea(tm):
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]:latex-test$ cat out.tex
> \documentclass{letter}
> \begin{document}
> \input{/etc/passwd}
> \end{document}
> 
> $ latex -interaction=batchmode out.tex > /dev/null
> $ dvips -o out.eps -E out.dvi 2> /dev/null
> $ convert +adjoin -antialias out.eps out.png
> $ see out.png
> 
> And yes, the contents of /etc/passwd pop up on screen. Given this isn't
> too big a deal, but TeX can write files too, and would have permission
> to change any file the user does.
> 

At some point, you do need to execute something on your machine, else
you may as well unplug it and find something else to do.  I understand
what you are saying, but we can't put everyone in a small padded room.
Based on your assessment, we would have cause to seek the removal of
latex, vi, emacs, cat and less.

-Roberto
-- 
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http://familiasanchez.net/~sanchezr


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Re: Canonical and Debian

[Michelle Konzack]

Am 2005-06-06 19:22:08, schrieb Peter 'p2' De Schrijver:

> That sounds retarded in an age where a 200GB HD cost less then 100 Euro...
> Anyway you can always decide to mirror only part of the archive if you
> want to, even today.

Using an ATA Disk for a Mirror ?

Sorry, but I am using Western Digital Raptor WD360GD and I pay 100 Euro
and for the bigger one WD740GD 150 Euro.

On my IPC/Vortex GDT6128RD I have four 147 GByte SCSI-Drives which cost
me each 300 Euro.

Newer 300 GByte SCSI drives around 500-700 Euro.

I do not know a mirror without Raid-5 so asuming, there are someone
which use 3Ware 3w9500 + four WD360GR (around 100 GByte) and they
pay 1200 Euro for the Controller and four small 36 GByte Drives.

Curently I am looking for private sponsors which like to pay me
4-6 new 147 GByte Drives for my /debian-archive because it seems
they will go like POTATO.

> Happy hacking,
> 
> Peter (p2).

Greetings
Michelle

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Re: Bug#311997: ITP: gaim-latex -- gaim plugin wich translate LaTeX code into image in conversation

[Anthony DeRobertis]

Martin Braure de Calignon wrote:

> Quoting tex2im code:
> 
> (...)
> latex -interaction=batchmode out.tex > /dev/null
> cd "$homedir"
> dvips -o $tmpdir/out.eps -E $tmpdir/out.dvi 2> /dev/null
> (...)
> convert +adjoin -antialias -transparent $color1 -density $resolution
> $tmpdir/out.eps $tmpdir/out.$format
> (...)
> #
> So they directly use latex.

This looks like a Bad Idea(tm):

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:latex-test$ cat out.tex
\documentclass{letter}
\begin{document}
\input{/etc/passwd}
\end{document}

$ latex -interaction=batchmode out.tex > /dev/null
$ dvips -o out.eps -E out.dvi 2> /dev/null
$ convert +adjoin -antialias out.eps out.png
$ see out.png

And yes, the contents of /etc/passwd pop up on screen. Given this isn't
too big a deal, but TeX can write files too, and would have permission
to change any file the user does.


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Re: Canonical and Debian

[Stephen Frost]

* Steve Langasek ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> Clone yourself and make yourself a slave to the buildds for 7 or 8
> architectures, so that the release team doesn't have to.  Neither the

Whoah, whoah, whoah, is this actually an option?  Last I checked that
answer was 'no'.  Hell, that's most of the *problem* here.  The limited
set of people running the buildds don't want to spend more time but
being allowed to be a buildd maintainer seems to be limited to a rather
small set of folks.  There seems to be a few different reasons for this,
but one of the big ones is wanna-build access, I believe.  This is
because of limitations of the current wanna-build framework, which may
have now been resolved?

Having the porters run the buildds sounds like a great idea to me, and
if you can't get anyone to run/maintain a buildd for an architecture,
then too bad for that architecture; but don't come out and say we need
more people maintaining buildds but then also say we can't have any more
buildds due to architecture limitations and say that the current buildds
have maintainers or that we can't let anyone else maintain them because
of security concerns or whatever.

Thanks,

Stephen


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Re: New Nokia device is Debian-based?

[Michelle Konzack]

Am 2005-06-06 10:11:22, schrieb John Hasler:

> You don't need any money and you don't need to sue Microsoft.  If you have
> proof of prior art for a software patent please contact one of the many
> organizations fighting such patents, such as the Free Software Foundation
> .  Several US software patents have been overturned
> recently when prior art was discovered by software patent opponents.

Hmmm, should I conntact them to make troble with M$ and friends ?

> BTW I assume that by "under a PD" you mean released into the public domain?
> It is not possible for a work to be both "public domain" and "educational
> use only".

In the USA but in Germany...

> Do you mean that Microsoft has patented an invention that was published in
> the referenced work, or that they are infringing the copyright?

The copyright, because for commercial use, interested
people/enterrises had should contact me for a licence.

And I think, M$ and Friends have stolen much more sources as
publicated and nobody can enforce her/his right, because it
is Closed Source Software where you do not know anything about
it.  :-(

See SCO!

I have found source code of SCO in Linux and Linux code in
SCO, BUT it is OpenSCO and this part was GPLed. I have the
OpenSCO CD's at home, and I know what I am talking about.

But SCO tell us, there is stolen Source-Code!  The Judges in
the USA have never seen the SCO-Source in original and now ?

I am using ONLY "main" from Debian and all new software of
me is GPL.  Never I will go back to prprietary software.

I am using Debian GNU/Linux sind 03/1999 and I will use it
for the rest of my life.

Thanks to all Developpers and Contributors (I am helping
discretly some Upstreams, DD and DM and I will continue)
for developing this GREAT and FREE Operating System.

Greetings
Michelle

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Re: Canonical and Debian

[Matt Zimmerman]

On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 07:22:08PM +0200, Peter 'p2' De Schrijver wrote:

> That sounds retarded in an age where a 200GB HD cost less then 100 Euro...
> Anyway you can always decide to mirror only part of the archive if you
> want to, even today.

Those who followed the dozens of earlier discussions about mirror space
realize that this argument does not withstand comparison with the facts
about the mirror network.

-- 
 - mdz


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Re: New Nokia device is Debian-based?

[John Hasler]

Michelle Konzack writes:
> I know, and I have no money to sue Microsoft which has stolen a Software
> which was 1986 under PD for educational use only...

You don't need any money and you don't need to sue Microsoft.  If you have
proof of prior art for a software patent please contact one of the many
organizations fighting such patents, such as the Free Software Foundation
.  Several US software patents have been overturned
recently when prior art was discovered by software patent opponents.

BTW I assume that by "under a PD" you mean released into the public domain?
It is not possible for a work to be both "public domain" and "educational
use only".

Do you mean that Microsoft has patented an invention that was published in
the referenced work, or that they are infringing the copyright?
-- 
John Hasler


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Bug#312236: ITP: ackertodo -- A lightweight todo list manager

[Rob Hensley]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Rob Hensley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


* Package name: ackertodo
  Version : 2.4
  Upstream Author : Rob Hensley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://ackertodo.sf.net/
* License : (GPL)
  Description : A lightweight todo list manager

  It can handle multiple users, multiple languages, themes, modules,
  recurring tasks, categories, super categories, and many other useful
  things.
   

-- System Information:
Debian Release: 3.1
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (500, 'unstable'), (500, 'testing'), (1, 'experimental')
Architecture: i386 (i686)
Shell:  /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash
Kernel: Linux 2.6.11
Locale: LANG=C, LC_CTYPE=C (charmap=ANSI_X3.4-1968)


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Re: Canonical and Debian

[Peter 'p2' De Schrijver]

> > Then how did these people end up choosing to support the same set of
> > architectures as Ubuntu?
> 
> I know I've been screaming murder and hell about this, but in hindsight,
> after having read the proposers' explanations (and the proposal itself
> for a few more times), this certainly is not what they're proposing.
> 

It's just a 'coincidence...'

> The whole thing is confusing, because the one nybbles mail talks about
> multiple things, and it's easy to mix those up. But in reality, the
> nybbles proposal suggests that we do the following:
> 
> * Split the architectures over two sets of mirror networks, so that
>   mirror administrators don't need 100G just to mirror Debian anymore.

That sounds retarded in an age where a 200GB HD cost less then 100 Euro...
Anyway you can always decide to mirror only part of the archive if you
want to, even today.

>   This has nothing to do with what architectures can release a "stable"
>   and what architectures cannot; only with mirror bandwidth and disk
>   space usage. The popularity of an architecture will be a deciding
>   factor in the decision of what archive mirror network will be used,
>   but there's of course nothing wrong with that; architectures would be
>   allowed to create a stable release on that "second-class" mirror
>   network, and that's what counts.

Downloading 5GiB takes about 1 and 12 minutes on a 2Mbit/s link...
2Mbit/s is hardly state of the art in IP networks... (state of the art
is more like 40GBit/s). And you can still mirror only part of the
archive if you want to save bandwidth, even today.

> * Create a set of rules that an architecture has to abide by in order to
>   be allowed to release. This set of rules would be there to make sure
>   that a port's porters, rather than the set of release managers, ftp
>   masters and the like, do all the work in making the port work.
>   Provided that set of rules is sensible (which I'm not entirely sure of
>   right now, but that can be fixed), there's nothing wrong with such a
>   suggestion.
> 

The current list doesn't make much sense at all. Some points just don't
make any sense (like limiting the number of buildds, or just outright
refusing the arch for no reason,...)

> While it is indeed very likely that only amd64, i386, and (perhaps)
> powerpc fall in the first thread, the same is very much not true for the
> second set.
> 

The second set is also not debian. It's not based on the same source
packages, it has different release cycles, it has a different testing
repository and we will have 6 or more of those variants
(mips,sparc,alpha,hppa,m68k,arm) all called 'etch'.

So effectively this proposal kills 82% of debian, causes more work and
more confusion.

Happy hacking,

Peter (p2).


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Re: Is Ubuntu a debian derivative or is it a fork?

[Stephen Birch]

David Nusinow([EMAIL PROTECTED])@2005-06-06 12:07:
> > > Is it your hope that the debian project will switch to the new software
> > > so ubuntu can stop running an independent bug tracker?
> > 
> > I think that's pretty unlikely, personally ...
> 
> Would it be of a lot of benefit to us if it could be done? I'd personally
> rather not have Debian's BTS be the second place that people go to look for
> bug reports.

I didn't phrase the question very well. I didn't mean to suggest that
a third party (Ubuntu) would maintain the bug database nor run the
BTS software.  Debian should (and must) maintain its own bug database and
control the BTS access software.

The question was really this, if Ubuntu created a better bug tracking
program would Debian want to run the new software on the debian
servers thus replacing the current bug tracking programs?

If not, I don't really understand why Ubuntu would want to put effort
into writing new BTS.  I thought the intention was to help avoid
duplicate bug tracking efforts.

I think you can see that I'm pretty confused about how Ubuntu is
planning to minimize duplication, or did I not understand the
intention :-(

Steve


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Re: New Nokia device is Debian-based?

[Jesus Climent]

On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 02:01:37PM +0200, Xavier Roche wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 01:33:00PM +0200, Jesus Climent wrote:
> > That is the key: OSS cannot be killed, not while EU and USA's governments,
> > local and nationwide, are promoting, using and even developing OSS 
> > themselves.
> 
> I can't be killed, but it can be expensive. What will do governments, local
> and nationwide, do when some company will ask them to pay for "patent
> infringement" ? They will pay.

Or not. Read below.

> Governments can afford to pay to use OSS (hey, this is a legal way to give
> money to private companies, by the way).
> 
> This is also a good point for big patent holders: "you can use OSS, but if
> you don't choose our consulting $ervice$, we sue you"

There might be the time when a government will be sued (along with the company
that produced the software they are using) for patent infrigement, and a push
to invalidate those patents will come. The same thing is happening with some
pharmacy issues, related to AIDS and malaria.

Time will tell.

-- 
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Unix SysAdm|Linux User #66350|Debian Developer|2.6.10|Helsinki Finland
GPG: 1024D/86946D69 BB64 2339 1CAA 7064 E429  7E18 66FC 1D7F 8694 6D69

Problem? I haven't got a problem. I've got fucking problems. Plural.
--Ted the Bellhop (Four Rooms)


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Re: Is Ubuntu a debian derivative or is it a fork?

[David Nusinow]

On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 12:21:42PM +0100, Colin Watson wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 02:13:50AM -0700, Stephen Birch wrote:
> > Matt Zimmerman([EMAIL PROTECTED])@2005-06-05 12:55:
> > > I don't think there exists a bug tracking system which meets this need
> > > today, which is why Canonical is developing a bug tracking system which is
> > > designed to meet the needs of open source projects collaborating with each
> > > other on common code bases (Malone).
> > 
> > That is interesting.
> > 
> > Is it your hope that the debian project will switch to the new software
> > so ubuntu can stop running an independent bug tracker?
> 
> I think that's pretty unlikely, personally ...

Would it be of a lot of benefit to us if it could be done? I'd personally
rather not have Debian's BTS be the second place that people go to look for
bug reports.

 - David Nusinow


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Re: New Nokia device is Debian-based?

[Roberto C. Sanchez]

On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 08:17:21AM -0700, Stephen Birch wrote:
> Michelle Konzack([EMAIL PROTECTED])@2005-06-06 15:52:
> > I know, and I have no money to sue Microsoft which has stolen
> > a Software which was 1986 under PD for educational use only...
> 
> Just out of curiosity, what was that?
> 

Out of even greater curiousity, how was something in the public domain
"stolen"?  That seems contradictory.

-Roberto

-- 
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http://familiasanchez.net/~sanchezr


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Re: Is Ubuntu a debian derivative or is it a fork?

[Colin Watson]

On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 07:44:17AM -0500, Bill Allombert wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 12:55:36PM +0100, Colin Watson wrote:
> > On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 11:45:59PM +1200, Nigel Jones wrote:
> > > ditto, plus, isn't there meant to be a few more good features coming
> > > up for the BTS (i heard that there will be more specific problem
> > > version tracking (to help with working out if it is a *NEXT* Release
> > > Critical Bug etc...)). - Well plans at least I've heard...
> > 
> > That's certainly something planned for shortly after sarge; basically
> > whenever I can get the old code branch brought up to date, merged,
> > tested, polished, and deployed.
> 
> Will you update a new debbugs package at the same time ? the current one does
> not work.

Yeah, I need to do that ...

-- 
Colin Watson   [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: New Nokia device is Debian-based?

[Michelle Konzack]

Am 2005-06-06 08:17:21, schrieb Stephen Birch:
> Michelle Konzack([EMAIL PROTECTED])@2005-06-06 15:52:
> > I know, and I have no money to sue Microsoft which has stolen
> > a Software which was 1986 under PD for educational use only...
> 
> Just out of curiosity, what was that?

1)  A Scandisk routine for FAT which was later used in Win95 and 
Win2000 and originaly written in 8 Bit on a Schneider Amstrad
PC1512  -  time flys!

2)  More secure writing of Data to FAT16 (1989)

I am using the Internet sinde 12/1995 and found my Source codes in
summer 1996 on .  I do not know, who has
uploaded it, but my self only on a 1200 Baud BBS in Munic/Germany.
The files are partialy in the the /msdos Directory dated on 1984 to
1990.

> Steve

Greetings
Michelle

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Re: Canonical and Debian

[Ingo Juergensmann]

On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 04:50:35PM +0200, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 02:00:47PM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> > Then what do you mean? There are several architectures with porters
> > ready to do huge amounts of porting work. For example, would you dare to
> > say m68k is lacking manpower?
> We can speak for ourselves, thank you.

Oh, really?

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Re: Debian Java in Sarge

[Adam Heath]

On Mon, 6 Jun 2005, Arnaud Vandyck wrote:

> Fri, 3 Jun 2005 18:38:13 -0500 (CDT),
> Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 3 Jun 2005, Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, Jun 03, 2005 at 05:39:33PM +0200, Arnaud Vandyck wrote:
> >> >
> >> > 3 Future
> >> >
> >> > * fix the Debian Java Policy;
> >> > * update the Debian Java FAQ;
> >> > * more packages to pkg-java;
> >> > * every packages to cdbs;
> >> 
> >>
> >> Why cdbs?  I was under the impression that many people disliked/wer
> >> uncomfortable with it because of the complex way in which it employs
> >> makefiles.  Wouldn't your packages be more accessible (in terms of
> >> other developers being able to patch/fix bugs/etc.) in a more
> >> universal format?
> >
> > I agree.  A java policy should talk about how java packages should
> > interact once installed.  But stay the hell away from how they are
> > built.
>
> I *never* said I wanted to put this in the Java Policy!

Then why list it as the future?


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Re: Canonical and Debian

[Thomas Bushnell BSG]

Julien BLACHE <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Steve Langasek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> accusing people of being members of a Canonical-controlled cabal when they
>> do you the courtesy of informing you about their personal priorities for
>> etch.  Your choice.
>
> "personal priorities", that's a good summary for the Vancouver
> proposal, indeed.

Are you willing to have Debian dictate your work to you?


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Re: New Nokia device is Debian-based?

[John Hasler]

Jesus Climent writes:
> That is the key: OSS cannot be killed, not while EU and USA's governments,
> local and nationwide, are promoting, using and even developing OSS themselves.

> Would you shoot on your feet?

The politicians really don't comprehend the problem (and neither do most of
the CEOs of the pro-patent companies).  They believe that the OSS companies
can just pay the royalties and all will be fine.
-- 
John Hasler


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Re: Is Ubuntu a debian derivative or is it a fork?

[Bill Allombert]

On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 12:55:36PM +0100, Colin Watson wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 11:45:59PM +1200, Nigel Jones wrote:
> > On 06/06/05, Colin Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 02:13:50AM -0700, Stephen Birch wrote:
> > > > Is it your hope that the debian project will switch to the new software
> > > > so ubuntu can stop running an independent bug tracker?
> > > 
> > > I think that's pretty unlikely, personally ...
> > 
> > ditto, plus, isn't there meant to be a few more good features coming
> > up for the BTS (i heard that there will be more specific problem
> > version tracking (to help with working out if it is a *NEXT* Release
> > Critical Bug etc...)). - Well plans at least I've heard...
> 
> That's certainly something planned for shortly after sarge; basically
> whenever I can get the old code branch brought up to date, merged,
> tested, polished, and deployed.

Will you update a new debbugs package at the same time ? the current one does
not work.

Cheers,
-- 
Bill. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Imagine a large red swirl here.


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Re: New Nokia device is Debian-based?

[Stephen Birch]

Michelle Konzack([EMAIL PROTECTED])@2005-06-06 15:52:
> I know, and I have no money to sue Microsoft which has stolen
> a Software which was 1986 under PD for educational use only...

Just out of curiosity, what was that?

Steve


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Re: ITP: cl-rfc2388 -- an implementation of RFC 2388 in Common Lisp

[Adrian Bunk]

On Sat, Jun 04, 2005 at 12:06:14PM +0200, Luca Capello wrote:
>...
> BTW, the CVS source already contains a debian/ folder, as the author
> accepted to let rfc2388 become a Debian native package :-)

Please don't package it as a native Debian package.

You can ship it with an empty Debian diff but please package it 
non-native and with a Debian revision in the version string.

This avoids several problems like e.g. an NMU uploading a new upstream 
version having a higher version number than the maintainer upload of 
this version.

> Thx, bye,
> Gismo / Luca

cu
Adrian

-- 

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of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days.
   "Only a promise," Lao Er said.
   Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed


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Re: New Nokia device is Debian-based?

[Stephen Birch]

David Weinehall([EMAIL PROTECTED])@2005-06-06 11:47:

> > 

> > top company to bottom in my mind.  Sigh ... I would have liked one of
> > those tablet computer.
> 
> So, I take it you don't buy any products from Apple, IBM, Sony,
> etc either?

Apple ... nope
IBM ... nope
Sony ... okay, so you got me!

> There's a distinct difference between corporate policy and the project
> internal policy of the Nokia/OSSO team who have developed the N770.
> 
> > Software patents are an absolute menace in the USA it would be crazy
> > for Europe to also start issuing them.
> 
> Well, the European Parliament is (or has at least been) strongly opposed
> to software patents, so it's unlikely that they will pass without some
> serious trickery.

I certainly hope so.  The USA situation is completely insane IMHO.

> NOTE: I'm a Nokia employee and work on the N770 team, but this is by
> no means an official statement...
> 
> Regards: David Weinehall

Be careful what you post though!  Nokia may be different but the "do
no evil" company google fired a guy for sharing his views :-)

Steve


PS Okay .. Id still like one of those tablets but the software patent
thing is pretty upsetting and I am quite suprised Nokia is on the
wrong side.


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Re: Debian Java in Sarge

[Arnaud Vandyck]

Fri, 3 Jun 2005 18:38:13 -0500 (CDT), 
Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

> On Fri, 3 Jun 2005, Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Jun 03, 2005 at 05:39:33PM +0200, Arnaud Vandyck wrote:
>> >
>> > 3 Future
>> >
>> > * fix the Debian Java Policy;
>> > * update the Debian Java FAQ;
>> > * more packages to pkg-java;
>> > * every packages to cdbs;
>> 
>>
>> Why cdbs?  I was under the impression that many people disliked/wer
>> uncomfortable with it because of the complex way in which it employs
>> makefiles.  Wouldn't your packages be more accessible (in terms of
>> other developers being able to patch/fix bugs/etc.) in a more
>> universal format?
>
> I agree.  A java policy should talk about how java packages should
> interact once installed.  But stay the hell away from how they are
> built.

I *never* said I wanted to put this in the Java Policy!

-- 
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 : :' :rnaud
 `. `'  
   `-
Java Trap: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/java-trap.html


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Re: Canonical and Debian

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 02:00:47PM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> Then what do you mean? There are several architectures with porters
> ready to do huge amounts of porting work. For example, would you dare to
> say m68k is lacking manpower?

We can speak for ourselves, thank you.

-- 
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pavement is precisely one bananosecond


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Re: Bug#311997: ITP: gaim-latex -- gaim plugin wich translate LaTeX code into image in conversation

[Roberto C. Sanchez]

On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 10:47:35AM +0200, Bernhard R. Link wrote:
> * Martin Braure de Calignon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [050606 10:39]:
> > But I have a question. I'have quickly done first package. gaim-latex use
> > a tex2im script that is from another source. Do I have to make two
> > packages, one for tex2im and one for gaim-latex or do I have to just
> > include this script in gaim-latex package (I think the first is the
> > best, but I want to be sure)?
> 
> Given the small size of tex2im I think an own package for it would be
> bloat. Though I'd suggest to try getting it in one the packages it
> depends on instead of a package depending on it. (As it mostly is a
> wrapper around latex&dvips and convert, tetex-bin or imagemagic would
> be good candidates. Perhaps just ask their maintainers what they think
> about it).
> 

I thought the same thing.  Really, it is a 200+ line bash script,
including comments and blank lines.  Martin could always include in
giam-latex until he can get it into another related package.

-Roberto

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Re: Canonical and Debian

[Petter Reinholdtsen]

[Josselin Mouette]
> However that won't help the architecture make it to a Vancouver-like
> release.

I suspect you have misunderstood the content and intention of the
proposal from the group meeting in Vancover.


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Re: Canonical and Debian

[Josselin Mouette]

Le lundi 06 juin 2005 à 12:56 +0100, Colin Watson a écrit :
> On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 11:25:45AM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> > Le dimanche 05 juin 2005 à 18:05 -0700, Steve Langasek a écrit :
> > > Josselin Mouette wrote:
> > > > Now, please tell me what I can do so that all architectures in sarge are
> > > > supported in etch.
> > > 
> > > Clone yourself and make yourself a slave to the buildds for 7 or 8
> > > architectures, so that the release team doesn't have to.  Neither the
> > > release team nor the FTP team is interested in being responsible for 
> > > keeping
> > > all of these architectures afloat.
> > 
> > That answers my question. Whatever amount of work the porters can do for
> > these architectures, they won't be accepted.
> 
> That's an incorrect paraphrase of what Steve said.

Then what do you mean? There are several architectures with porters
ready to do huge amounts of porting work. For example, would you dare to
say m68k is lacking manpower? However that won't help the architecture
make it to a Vancouver-like release.
-- 
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: :' :   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
`. `'[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   `-  Debian GNU/Linux -- The power of freedom

Re: New Nokia device is Debian-based?

[Michelle Konzack]

Am 2005-06-06 15:02:31, schrieb Xavier Roche:
> On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 02:19:20PM +0200, Michelle Konzack wrote:
> > Many of those Patents a not related to OSS.
> 
> Yes, true. But many other "non software" patents are actually
> disguised software patents (such as implementing a trivial algorithm
> on a chip - hey, these ARE software patents)

I know, but...

> > And some others can not enforced.
> 
> Huh ? Remember the one-click patent, the plugin (Eolas) patent ? If
> you aren't backed up by expensive erperts, you're dead. IT is
> complicated. Software is damn complicated.

I know, and I have no money to sue Microsoft which has stolen
a Software which was 1986 under PD for educational use only...

> No, no. I'm just realistic. If a company has the opportunity to kill
> competitors, using legal ways, there are no reasons not to use them.
> What is illogical is to create new ways of killing competition,
> through software patents.

:-/

Greetings
Michelle

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Re: Canonical and Debian

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 11:25:45AM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> Le dimanche 05 juin 2005 à 18:05 -0700, Steve Langasek a écrit :
> > > Now, please tell me what I can do so that all architectures in sarge are
> > > supported in etch.
> > 
> > Clone yourself and make yourself a slave to the buildds for 7 or 8
> > architectures, so that the release team doesn't have to.  Neither the
> > release team nor the FTP team is interested in being responsible for keeping
> > all of these architectures afloat.
> 
> That answers my question. Whatever amount of work the porters can do for
> these architectures, they won't be accepted.

Okay, you've competely lost me now.

Please explain how this sentence follows from what Steve said, because
I don't see it. Really.

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Re: New Nokia device is Debian-based?

[Xavier Roche]

On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 02:19:20PM +0200, Michelle Konzack wrote:
> Many of those Patents a not related to OSS.

Yes, true. But many other "non software" patents are actually disguised 
software patents (such as implementing a trivial algorithm on a chip - hey, 
these ARE software patents)

> And some others can not enforced.

Huh ? Remember the one-click patent, the plugin (Eolas) patent ? If you aren't 
backed up by expensive erperts, you're dead. IT is complicated. Software is 
damn complicated.

> You see realy black ?

No, no. I'm just realistic. If a company has the opportunity to kill 
competitors, using legal ways, there are no reasons not to use them.
What is illogical is to create new ways of killing competition, through 
software patents.


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Re: New Nokia device is Debian-based?

[Michelle Konzack]

Am 2005-06-06 12:10:02, schrieb Xavier Roche:

> 922 patents (including software patents, still 'illegal' in Europe)
> were issued by Nokia, by the way:
> 
> But IBM issued much more (at least 2620, according to ffii) software
> patents.

For some month I have checked the list of patents
and DON NOT BELIVE ALL what the ffii tells you !!!

Many of those Patents a not related to OSS.

And some others can not enforced.

> Both IBM and Nokia said they won't sue open source developpers. For
> the moment, at least. This is the real threat, IMHO: big companies
> using open source for a while, and then.. killing it when they don't
> need it anymore.

You see realy black ?

> I'm really pessimistic. Both council and commission are pro-swpat,
> and are actively lobbying to pass the directive. The parliament will
> have to find a global majority, or the directive will be approved.
> A global majority, just before summer vacation. Good luck ..

:-)

Greetings
Michelle

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Re: Is Ubuntu a debian derivative or is it a fork?

[Nigel Jones]

On 06/06/05, Colin Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 11:45:59PM +1200, Nigel Jones wrote:
> > On 06/06/05, Colin Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 02:13:50AM -0700, Stephen Birch wrote:
> > > > Is it your hope that the debian project will switch to the new software
> > > > so ubuntu can stop running an independent bug tracker?
> > >
> > > I think that's pretty unlikely, personally ...
> >
> > ditto, plus, isn't there meant to be a few more good features coming
> > up for the BTS (i heard that there will be more specific problem
> > version tracking (to help with working out if it is a *NEXT* Release
> > Critical Bug etc...)). - Well plans at least I've heard...
> 
> That's certainly something planned for shortly after sarge; basically
> whenever I can get the old code branch brought up to date, merged,
> tested, polished, and deployed.

Personally, I find whats been rumoured around (basicly what i said
before) will be more than enough for Debian Development etc, no
offense to Ubuntu who obviously see their own personal/business
desires for such features to be implemented for their own project, but
personally, Debian's current BTS with a few modifications will be all
thats needed for the next release or two.

P.S: Colin - I take it you are the Developer for this?  If you need a
hand I may be interested in contributing at least something.
> 
> --
> Colin Watson   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: New Nokia device is Debian-based?

[Xavier Roche]

On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 01:33:00PM +0200, Jesus Climent wrote:
> That is the key: OSS cannot be killed, not while EU and USA's governments,
> local and nationwide, are promoting, using and even developing OSS themselves.

I can't be killed, but it can be expensive. What will do governments, local and 
nationwide, do when some company will ask them to pay for "patent infringement" 
? They will pay.
Governments can afford to pay to use OSS (hey, this is a legal way to give 
money to private companies, by the way).

This is also a good point for big patent holders: "you can use OSS, but if you 
don't choose our consulting $ervice$, we sue you"

> Would you shoot on your feet?

Aren't european governments already trying to shoot themselves in their feet by 
endangering the IT industry with swpat ? 

The council/commission position is clear: if shooting on "our" (=IT industry's) 
feet means big money for us (=our friends ar the EPO), why bother ?


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Re: New Nokia device is Debian-based?

[Florian Weimer]

* Jesus Climent:

> That is the key: OSS cannot be killed, not while EU and USA's
> governments, local and nationwide, are promoting, using and even
> developing OSS themselves.

Most countries use OSS only when it's supported by large companies
that can be sued for billions.  Smaller companies usually don't have
the knowledge or resources to get involved even at the bidding stage
(and the whole bidding process is secret, so that you can't learn from
successful bids).

In the U.S., there once was a Small Business Initiative, which awarded
contracts explicitly to small contractors where possible.  This is a
reasonable thing to do, but this practice is probably illegal in the
EU.


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Re: Canonical and Debian

[Colin Watson]

On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 11:25:45AM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> Le dimanche 05 juin 2005 à 18:05 -0700, Steve Langasek a écrit :
> > Josselin Mouette wrote:
> > > Now, please tell me what I can do so that all architectures in sarge are
> > > supported in etch.
> > 
> > Clone yourself and make yourself a slave to the buildds for 7 or 8
> > architectures, so that the release team doesn't have to.  Neither the
> > release team nor the FTP team is interested in being responsible for keeping
> > all of these architectures afloat.
> 
> That answers my question. Whatever amount of work the porters can do for
> these architectures, they won't be accepted.

That's an incorrect paraphrase of what Steve said.

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Re: Is Ubuntu a debian derivative or is it a fork?

[Colin Watson]

On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 11:45:59PM +1200, Nigel Jones wrote:
> On 06/06/05, Colin Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 02:13:50AM -0700, Stephen Birch wrote:
> > > Is it your hope that the debian project will switch to the new software
> > > so ubuntu can stop running an independent bug tracker?
> > 
> > I think that's pretty unlikely, personally ...
> 
> ditto, plus, isn't there meant to be a few more good features coming
> up for the BTS (i heard that there will be more specific problem
> version tracking (to help with working out if it is a *NEXT* Release
> Critical Bug etc...)). - Well plans at least I've heard...

That's certainly something planned for shortly after sarge; basically
whenever I can get the old code branch brought up to date, merged,
tested, polished, and deployed.

-- 
Colin Watson   [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Is Ubuntu a debian derivative or is it a fork?

[Nigel Jones]

On 06/06/05, Colin Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 02:13:50AM -0700, Stephen Birch wrote:
> > Matt Zimmerman([EMAIL PROTECTED])@2005-06-05 12:55:
> > > I don't think there exists a bug tracking system which meets this need
> > > today, which is why Canonical is developing a bug tracking system which is
> > > designed to meet the needs of open source projects collaborating with each
> > > other on common code bases (Malone).
> >
> > That is interesting.
> >
> > Is it your hope that the debian project will switch to the new software
> > so ubuntu can stop running an independent bug tracker?
> 
> I think that's pretty unlikely, personally ...
> 
ditto, plus, isn't there meant to be a few more good features coming
up for the BTS (i heard that there will be more specific problem
version tracking (to help with working out if it is a *NEXT* Release
Critical Bug etc...)). - Well plans at least I've heard...
> --
> Colin Watson   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> --
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> 


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Proud Debian & FOSS User
Debian Maintainer of: html2ps & ipkungfu

Re: Canonical and Debian

[Josselin Mouette]

Le dimanche 05 juin 2005 à 18:05 -0700, Steve Langasek a écrit :
> > Now, please tell me what I can do so that all architectures in sarge are
> > supported in etch.
> 
> Clone yourself and make yourself a slave to the buildds for 7 or 8
> architectures, so that the release team doesn't have to.  Neither the
> release team nor the FTP team is interested in being responsible for keeping
> all of these architectures afloat.

That answers my question. Whatever amount of work the porters can do for
these architectures, they won't be accepted. A very good example of how
things shouldn't be going, indeed.
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Re: New Nokia device is Debian-based?

[Jesus Climent]

On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 12:10:02PM +0200, Xavier Roche wrote:
> 
> Both IBM and Nokia said they won't sue open source developpers. For the
> moment, at least. This is the real threat, IMHO: big companies using open
> source for a while, and then.. killing it when they don't need it anymore.

That is the key: OSS cannot be killed, not while EU and USA's governments,
local and nationwide, are promoting, using and even developing OSS themselves.

Would you shoot on your feet?

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You know what the real tragedy of this day is? I'm not even supposed to 
be here today!
--Dante Hicks (Clerks)


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Re: Is Ubuntu a debian derivative or is it a fork?

[Colin Watson]

On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 02:13:50AM -0700, Stephen Birch wrote:
> Matt Zimmerman([EMAIL PROTECTED])@2005-06-05 12:55:
> > I don't think there exists a bug tracking system which meets this need
> > today, which is why Canonical is developing a bug tracking system which is
> > designed to meet the needs of open source projects collaborating with each
> > other on common code bases (Malone).
> 
> That is interesting.
> 
> Is it your hope that the debian project will switch to the new software
> so ubuntu can stop running an independent bug tracker?

I think that's pretty unlikely, personally ...

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