Re: anticipating the upstart migration

[Reinhard Tartler]

Alex Pennace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Sun, Oct 08, 2006 at 10:16:51PM +0200, Hendrik Sattler wrote:
>> I propose another solution. Introduce init-common with wrappers:
>> * /sbin/init is a binary that
>>   - reads a configuration file with the init system name  and
>>   - creates a file /var/run/inittype (or whereever is can be stored at that 
>> time) with the same value and
>
> /var may be a seperate file system, unmounted at that stage of booting.

/var/{run,lock} could be mounted as tmpfs in early userspace. Other
distributions are already doing this, and a few weeks ago, there was
discussion about doing this in debian as well.

-- 
Gruesse/greetings,
Reinhard Tartler, KeyID 945348A4


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Re: how to tell people to dpkg-reconfigure exim4-_CONFIG_?

[Reinhard Tartler]

Marc Haber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Hi,
>
> "how to reconfigure exim4" is one of the most frequently asked
> questions on #debian.

How about a simple 'echo' when reconfiguring?

When upgrading/installing the exim packages, users most probably won't
notice this. When a user issues a 'dpkg-reconfigure exim4', this
could/would be the only thing he sees.

Cons: Untranslated message
Pros: less annoying by not interrupting installs and upgrades, easy to
  implement
 
-- 
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Reinhard Tartler, KeyID 945348A4


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Re: gids assigned non-deterministically

[Tim Dijkstra]

On Mon, 9 Oct 2006 14:39:07 -0500
Peter Samuelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> [Roberto C. Sanchez]
> > That is a problem if I want to server everything up out of LDAP.
> > There really should be a "reserved" range, maybe 100-499 of Debian
> > gids, where they are assigned in a predertmined way.
> 
> I don't think it's a good idea to put system users and groups into LDAP
> anyway.  They are specific to a system.  

That is no longer a reality with groups like plugdev, powerdev and
netdev, which users need to be a member of to be able to get the wonders
of automatically mounted usb-sticks, tweakable power management and
whatever comes with the utopia stack.

grts Tim


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Re: MIA: Masayuki Hatta

[NOKUBI Takatsugu]

At Mon, 9 Oct 2006 13:37:25 +0200 (MEST),
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Is Masayuki Hatta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> MIA?

I can see his activity on a Japanese local SNS, so he would forget or
filtered as a spam.
-- 
NOKUBI Takatsugu
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: gids assigned non-deterministically

[Gabor Gombas]

On Tue, Oct 10, 2006 at 09:36:56AM +0200, Tim Dijkstra wrote:

> That is no longer a reality with groups like plugdev, powerdev and
> netdev, which users need to be a member of to be able to get the wonders
> of automatically mounted usb-sticks, tweakable power management and
> whatever comes with the utopia stack.

Then use pam_group to temporarily assign those groups to users. That way
the gids can be different on every system, and you can even gain
performance by having less groups in LDAP.

Especially if you have more than a handful of users (and if you are
considering LDAP, I assume you have), groups with hudreds or thousands of
members can cause headaches.

Gabor

-- 
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Hungarian Academy of Sciences
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Re: how to tell people to dpkg-reconfigure exim4-_CONFIG_?

[Jon Dowland]

sean finney wrote:

funny, i'd have said the ultimate solution was finding a way to make the
users learn about looking at README.Debian :)
  
I think users can be forgiven not reading every README.Debian in 
packages which are installed by default.


--
Jon Dowland
http://alcopop.org/


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Re: gids assigned non-deterministically

[Tim Dijkstra]

On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 11:20:26 +0200
Gabor Gombas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 10, 2006 at 09:36:56AM +0200, Tim Dijkstra wrote:
> 
> > That is no longer a reality with groups like plugdev, powerdev and
> > netdev, which users need to be a member of to be able to get the wonders
> > of automatically mounted usb-sticks, tweakable power management and
> > whatever comes with the utopia stack.
> 
> Then use pam_group to temporarily assign those groups to users. That way
> the gids can be different on every system, and you can even gain
> performance by having less groups in LDAP.

Hmm, pam_group doesn't sound to secure to me... what if on one machine
gid 110 is www-data and on another plugdev. Then if a user logs in on the second
machine it will get access to gid 110, make some suid executable, which on 
another machine ... Well the nfs mount is nosuid, but still, I find this a bit
scary.

> Especially if you have more than a handful of users (and if you are
> considering LDAP, I assume you have), groups with hudreds or thousands of
> members can cause headaches.

But this is of course true...

grts Tim


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Re: gids assigned non-deterministically

[Petter Reinholdtsen]

[Tim Dijkstra]
> Hmm, pam_group doesn't sound to secure to me... what if on one
> machine gid 110 is www-data and on another plugdev. Then if a user
> logs in on the second machine it will get access to gid 110, make
> some suid executable, which on another machine ... Well the nfs
> mount is nosuid, but still, I find this a bit scary.

You are right.  The groups in use on an NFS mounted directory should
be the same across all machines.  So you should avoid making any files
with those gids on NFS-exported file system.

Friendly,
-- 
Petter Reinholdtsen


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Re: [Debian Installer] General release plan for RC1

[Tshepang Lekhonkhobe]

On 10/10/06, Josselin Mouette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

The current plan is to ship GNOME 2.14 in etch [1]. This was a hard
decision to make, but we prefer shipping a rock-solid and polished 2.14
version rather than a buggy 2.16 version with which Ubuntu is having
many issues.

 [1] http://oskuro.net/blog/freesoftware/gnome-2.16-etch-2006-10-06-21-45


If a decision like this happens, could you guys please post it to the
relevant debian lists, like debian-gtk-gnome and/or debian-release,
since I only bumped into the info by chance.

thanks...


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Re: how to tell people to dpkg-reconfigure exim4-_CONFIG_?

[Reinhard Tartler]

Jon Dowland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> sean finney wrote:
>> funny, i'd have said the ultimate solution was finding a way to make the
>> users learn about looking at README.Debian :)
>>   
> I think users can be forgiven not reading every README.Debian in
> packages which are installed by default.

Not for every installed package, but I think we should expect that for
packages, with which users have problems configuring.

If we cannot expect that, perhaps we should advertise the existance of
those README.Debian files better.

-- 
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Reinhard Tartler, KeyID 945348A4


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Re: ftp upload queue?

[Toni Mueller]

Hi,

On Mon, 09.10.2006 at 21:47:06 +0200, Laszlo Boszormenyi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> On Sun, 2006-10-08 at 22:42 -0700, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> > Aurélien GÉRÔME <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > > As soon as I send a mail, the deamon restarts... Good news! ;)
> > Yep.  Thanks magic elves!
>  Then please help again elves! :-) The daemon is down again. :(

I'm interested in this question, too. My package (roundup) is claimed
to be accepted in unstable, but doesn't seem to appear there after some
40 hours.

Is main already frozen?


Best,
--Toni++


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Re: gids assigned non-deterministically

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Mon, Oct 09, 2006 at 10:16:45AM -0400, Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:
> I guess that if the deployment were on a new network, it would be easier
> to affect how the gids are assigned, since you would be looking for
> issues like that.  However, for an existing network, this can be more of
> a problem.

Not necessarily. There is no real need to have system GIDs assigned
through LDAP. In fact, personally I'd recommend against it.

PAM has this wonderful feature called "stacking", which means that you
can perfectly well use system GIDs from /etc/group, while your locally
assigned GIDs can come from LDAP. I know that's how I did stuff when I
transitioned my home network to LDAP.

-- 
 Home is where you have to wash the dishes.
  -- #debian-devel, Freenode, 2004-09-22


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Re: gids assigned non-deterministically

[Gabor Gombas]

On Tue, Oct 10, 2006 at 11:33:43AM +0200, Tim Dijkstra wrote:

> Hmm, pam_group doesn't sound to secure to me... what if on one machine
> gid 110 is www-data and on another plugdev. Then if a user logs in on the 
> second
> machine it will get access to gid 110, make some suid executable, which on 
> another machine ...

This can't happen. Groups are _not_ transferred over remote login. New
files are owned by the user's primary group, and _not_ by the
supplemental groups (and I really hope you do not want to use 'plugdev'
etc. as the primary group for any real user...)

Even newgrp does not work with groups granted by pam_group (more
precisely, newgrp asks for the group's password, but system groups
should be always locked). So I see no way to transfer a locally granted
group to another machine.

On the other hand, it is true that you should never create files owned
by local uids/gids on shared storage.

Gabor

-- 
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Re: anticipating the upstart migration

[Henrique de Moraes Holschuh]

On Tue, 10 Oct 2006, Reinhard Tartler wrote:
> /var/{run,lock} could be mounted as tmpfs in early userspace. Other
> distributions are already doing this, and a few weeks ago, there was
> discussion about doing this in debian as well.

For various reasons, Debian will go with /lib/init/rw as the early write
filesystem.  Whatever you need to write in early userspace can go there.

-- 
  "One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring
  them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond
  where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot
  Henrique Holschuh


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Bug#392119: ITP: php-suhosin -- security extension for php

[Alexander Wirt]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Alexander Wirt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

  Package name: php-suhosin
  Version : 0.9.8
  Upstream Author : Stefan Esser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  URL : http://www.hardened-php.net/suhosin.127.html
  License : PHP License 
  Programming Lang: C
  Description : security extension for php

 Suhosin is an advanced protection system for PHP installations. It was
 designed to protect servers and users from known and unknown flaws in PHP
 applications and the PHP core. Suhosin comes in two independent parts, that
 can be used separately or in combination. The first part is a small patch
 against the PHP core, that implements a few low-level protections against
 bufferoverflows or format string vulnerabilities and the second part is a
 powerful PHP extension that implements all the other protections.

-- System Information:
Debian Release: testing/unstable
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (200, 'unstable')
Architecture: powerpc (ppc)
Shell:  /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash
Kernel: Linux 2.6.17-rc5
Locale: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] (charmap=ISO-8859-15)


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Re: gids assigned non-deterministically

[Tim Dijkstra]

On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 15:08:29 +0200
Gabor Gombas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 10, 2006 at 11:33:43AM +0200, Tim Dijkstra wrote:
> 
> > Hmm, pam_group doesn't sound to secure to me... what if on one machine
> > gid 110 is www-data and on another plugdev. Then if a user logs in on the 
> > second
> > machine it will get access to gid 110, make some suid executable, which on 
> > another machine ...
> 
> This can't happen. Groups are _not_ transferred over remote login.

Of course not, that's the whole point. If you dynamically allocate
system groups and dynamically make users members of groups. You can get
a mess if they both write to a nfs mounted volume. A file that is owned by 
group 110 can be groups www-data on one and plugdev on the other.

> New
> files are owned by the user's primary group, and _not_ by the
> supplemental groups (and I really hope you do not want to use 'plugdev'
> etc. as the primary group for any real user...)

That's not an argument someone can just 'chown :plugdev' something.

grts Tim


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Bug#392127: ITP: wmtoshiba -- Windowmaker Dockap to minitor fan on toshiba notebooks

[Mario Iseli]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Mario Iseli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

* Package name: wmtoshiba
  Version : 0.6.7
  Upstream Author : Inphra Red <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://web.cs.mun.ca/~gstarkes/wmaker/dockapps/sys.html
* License : GPL
  Description : Windowmaker Dockap to minitor fan on toshiba notebooks


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Re: gids assigned non-deterministically

[Roberto C. Sanchez]

On Tue, Oct 10, 2006 at 11:20:26AM +0200, Gabor Gombas wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 10, 2006 at 09:36:56AM +0200, Tim Dijkstra wrote:
> 
> > That is no longer a reality with groups like plugdev, powerdev and
> > netdev, which users need to be a member of to be able to get the wonders
> > of automatically mounted usb-sticks, tweakable power management and
> > whatever comes with the utopia stack.
> 
> Then use pam_group to temporarily assign those groups to users. That way
> the gids can be different on every system, and you can even gain
> performance by having less groups in LDAP.
> 
How does that work?  Do I need to specify that in each client's pam
configuration?  Or on each system's /etc/group?

> Especially if you have more than a handful of users (and if you are
> considering LDAP, I assume you have), groups with hudreds or thousands of
> members can cause headaches.
> 
Yes.  Of course, if you have more than a handful of machines, what you
are describing is a management nightmare.

Regards,

-Roberto
-- 
Roberto C. Sanchez
http://people.connexer.com/~roberto
http://www.connexer.com


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Re: gids assigned non-deterministically

[Roberto C. Sanchez]

On Tue, Oct 10, 2006 at 12:46:58PM +0200, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 09, 2006 at 10:16:45AM -0400, Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:
> > I guess that if the deployment were on a new network, it would be easier
> > to affect how the gids are assigned, since you would be looking for
> > issues like that.  However, for an existing network, this can be more of
> > a problem.
> 
> Not necessarily. There is no real need to have system GIDs assigned
> through LDAP. In fact, personally I'd recommend against it.
> 
> PAM has this wonderful feature called "stacking", which means that you
> can perfectly well use system GIDs from /etc/group, while your locally
> assigned GIDs can come from LDAP. I know that's how I did stuff when I
> transitioned my home network to LDAP.
> 
That is fine for a home network.  However, on a network of 1000
workstations, having to specify group memberships on the clients is kind
of a pain.  All I am trying to say is that Debian should not make it
difficult for the admin to implement what he/she wants.  Unfortunately,
the current system does just that.

Regards,

-Roberto

-- 
Roberto C. Sanchez
http://people.connexer.com/~roberto
http://www.connexer.com


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Re: gids assigned non-deterministically

[Gabor Gombas]

On Tue, Oct 10, 2006 at 11:15:51AM -0400, Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:

> That is fine for a home network.  However, on a network of 1000
> workstations, having to specify group memberships on the clients is kind
> of a pain.

It's not different than having to specify what NFS file systems to mount
or where the LDAP server is. If you have 1000 workstations, you do not
configure them individually, but either install them from one master
image (possibly even every day, like in the case of publicly accessible
university machines), or have some central configuration/management
system (like Quattor).

Gabor

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Bug#392122: ITP: php-suhosin -- Suhosin is an advanced protection system for PHP installations.

[Jan Wagner]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Jan Wagner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

* Package name: php-suhosin
  Version : 0.9.6
  Upstream Author : Stefan Esser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://www.hardened-php.net/suhosin/
* License : PHP License, version 3.01
  Programming Lang: C
  Description : Suhosin is an advanced protection system for PHP 
installations.

(Include the long description here.)

 Suhosin is an advanced protection system for PHP installations. It was
 designed to protect servers and users from known and unknown flaws in PHP
 applications and the PHP core. Suhosin comes in two independent parts, that
 can be used separately or in combination. The first part is a small patch
 against the PHP core, that implements a few low-level protections against
 bufferoverflows or format string vulnerabilities and the second part is a
 powerful PHP extension that implements all the other protections.

-- System Information:
Debian Release: testing/unstable
  APT prefers testing
  APT policy: (500, 'testing')
Architecture: i386 (i686)
Shell:  /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash
Kernel: Linux 2.6.17-2-686
Locale: LANG=C, LC_CTYPE=C (charmap=ANSI_X3.4-1968)


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Bug#392120: ITP: lua-sql -- luasql library for the lua language version 5.1

[Enrico Tassi]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Enrico Tassi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


* Package name: lua-sql
  Version : 2.0.2
  Upstream Author : Kepler Project
* URL : http://www.keplerproject.org/luasql
* License : MIT/X
  Programming Lang: C
  Description : sql library for the lua language

This library includes several SQL engine backends, but for now only
sqlite and mysql backends will be provided.

snapshot of the package:
svn+ssh://svn.debian.org/svn/pkg-lua/packages/lua-sql/trunk

-- System Information:
Debian Release: testing/unstable
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (500, 'unstable')
Architecture: i386 (i686)
Shell:  /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash
Kernel: Linux 2.6.18-1-k7
Locale: LANG=en_US.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)

-- 
Enrico Tassi


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Re: gids assigned non-deterministically

[Gabor Gombas]

On Tue, Oct 10, 2006 at 03:36:20PM +0200, Tim Dijkstra wrote:

> That's not an argument someone can just 'chown :plugdev' something.

Crap. I knew I'd overlook something. I think you could still prevent
that with SELinux though :-)

On the other hand I was thinking about if in your case basically all
user needs to be a member of all these groups anyway, then there is no
point in having these groups at all. Just make pmount executable by
anyone, and edit /etc/dbus-1/system.d/{avahi-dbus.conf,hal.conf} and
replace '' etc. with '' or with ''.

Similarly, if all users have read(/write) access to a device because all
users are part of the group owning the device node, then you can just
make that device node a+r(/a+w) and forget about the group.

Of course there may be services running under other uids that you do not
want to give all access humans has; it has to be decided.

Gabor

-- 
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Bug#392017: apt.conf contains Acquire::HTTP::Proxy "false", does apt-listbugs need to support it?

[Junichi Uekawa]

Hi,

Today, I've received at least two reports about people who have set 
Acquire::HTTP::Proxy "false"

From reading apt.conf manpage, the correct configuration is "DIRECT".

Why are people setting this value "false", and do I need to support it
in apt-listbugs?

regards,
junichi
-- 
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CaseID debian-devel-digest

[Guadalupe Mccarthy]

Good Morning,

Do you need immediate capital to do with 
any way you feel like, here are our proposals

257K at 4.29 %
421K at 5.97 %
621K at 4.80 %

http://geocities.com/Turner90_i465/

Respects,
Approval Director
Guadalupe Mccarthy



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Re: how to tell people to dpkg-reconfigure exim4-_CONFIG_?

[Don Armstrong]

On Tue, 10 Oct 2006, Reinhard Tartler wrote:
> Cons: Untranslated message
> Pros: less annoying by not interrupting installs and upgrades, easy to
>   implement

Cons: Can't be easily seen in non-console frontends, dissapears off of
the screen rapidly, etc.

Using echo to inform the user of things is really not ideal.
README.Debian, NEWS.Debian, and low priority debconf notes when
appropriate are much, much better.


Don Armstrong

-- 
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such that it can be singled out, by means of emperical tests, in a
negative sense: it must be possible for an emperical scientific system
to be refuted by experience.
 -- Sir Karl Popper _Logic of Scientific Discovery_ §6

http://www.donarmstrong.com  http://rzlab.ucr.edu

Debian GNU/Minix?

[HXC]

I am wondering if it is possible to use the Minix kernel in Debian. If 
so wouldn't that be an interesting project to release a Debian minix 
version? (just like Debian BSD and Debian Hurd :-) )



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Re: Debian GNU/Minix?

[Marco d'Itri]

On Oct 10, HXC <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I am wondering if it is possible to use the Minix kernel in Debian. If 
No.

> so wouldn't that be an interesting project to release a Debian minix 
> version? (just like Debian BSD and Debian Hurd :-) )
As in the Chinese meaning, maybe.

-- 
ciao,
Marco


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Re: Non-free IETF RFC/I-Ds in source packages

[Simon Josefsson]

Simon Josefsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Bug #390664 inspired me to look in source packages for IETF RFC/I-D's
> too, and the situation seem to be more problematic.  I've put a list
> of packages in testing (as of a few days ago, my mirror is slow) that
> appear to contain IETF RFC or I-D's at:
>
> http://josefsson.org/bcp78broken/ietf-in-src.txt
>
> There are certainly false positives in that list (I know of some), and
> some have already been reported.  The regexp I used was:
>
> -e rfc[0-9]+\.txt \
> -e draft-.*[0-9][0-9]\.txt \
>
> But still, that's 73 source packages.
>
> I will try to go through them and report bugs, but I could use help in
> analysing the packages for false positives.  Perhaps a page on
> wiki.debian.org could be used to co-ordinate this.

I've created a wiki page to co-ordinate the effort, see:

http://wiki.debian.org/NonFreeIETFDocuments

In particular, I'd like help on improving the bug report template.

Unless it turns it is a bad idea to do so (thoughts welcome!), I'll
send the bug reports next weekend.

I've cc:ed debian-devel to reach a wider audience.

/Simon


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Re: Call for votes for "GR: Re-affirm support to the Debian Project Leader"

[Barak A. Pearlmutter]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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[   ] Choice 1: Re-affirm DPL, wish success to unofficial Dunc Tank
[   ] Choice 2: Re-affirm DPL, do not endorse nor support his other projects
[ 1 ] Choice 3: Further discussion
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Re: Is Stan Vasilyev MIA?

[Michelle Konzack]

Am 2006-10-06 12:30:27, schrieb Bas Wijnen:
> However, the procedure is outlined on
> http://www.debian.org/doc/developers-reference/ch-beyond-pkging.en.html#s-mia-qa,
> and that mentions debian-devel should be asked before [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Is
> this a bug in the developers' reference, or have I misunderstood the
> procedure?

I know the Developers Reference and this why I had asked...

Maybe it should be changed in the DR?

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day
Michelle Konzack
Systemadministrator
Tamay Dogan Network
Debian GNU/Linux Consultant


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Re: apt-findremovable v0.1 (initial release)

[Michelle Konzack]

Am 2006-10-06 12:34:35, schrieb Steinar H. Gunderson:
> On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 02:42:43AM +0200, Michelle Konzack wrote:
> > And HOW do you install/remove packages if the TUI from aptitude crashs?
> 
> You file a bug at the appropriate severity against aptitude?

A bugreport about what?

If I tell the Maintainer: "I am connecting over ssh2 using keys
to two of my servers in Tehran, I want to install something and
I choose aptitude for better searching, aptitude crashs and kill
the ssh session", he/she will close immediatly the bugreport,
because this NO bugreport.

I do not know, whether it is aptitude or ssh or a related lib.

All 6 Servers are Sarge with the latest updates but using Linux
2.4.32.  Oh yes, the two offending servers are using Monocrom-
Graficcards.

> If aptitude kills your ssh session, I'd be inclined to believe more was wrong
> on your machine than just aptitude, but I guess that's up to whoever ends up
> debugging this to find out.

The problem is, that the Servers are in Tehran and I am in
Strasbourg.  I do not know how to debug this on distance...

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day
Michelle Konzack
Systemadministrator
Tamay Dogan Network
Debian GNU/Linux Consultant


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Re: apt-findremovable v0.1 (initial release)

[Michelle Konzack]

Am 2006-10-06 18:06:47, schrieb Mikhail Gusarov:
> Do aptitude checks terminal even for 'aptitude install' or 'aptitude
> search'?

Good question!  The two offending Servers use Monocrom-Graficcards.
Maybe aptitude can not enter a colormode and crash?

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day
Michelle Konzack
Systemadministrator
Tamay Dogan Network
Debian GNU/Linux Consultant


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Re: Bug#391686: ITP: ipw3945-daemon -- Binary userspace regulatory daemon for Intel PRO/Wireless 3945ABG cards

[Jim Crilly]

On 10/09/06 07:42:03PM -0700, Jurij Smakov wrote:
> Actually, it can't do even that. According to installation 
> instructions, it can be run without root privileges, as long as it has 
> read/write access to a rather small subset of files in the /sys tree. 
> That's how I plan to make it work in the package.
> 

That's good, I had forgotten that you can change the ownership/permissions
of files on sysfs. I'm just a little surprised that no one but the OpenBSD
guys care enough to figure out what the daemon does and work out a free
solution.

Jim.


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Re: apt-findremovable v0.1 (initial release)

[Alexander Sack]

On Sat, Oct 07, 2006 at 06:30:33PM +0200, Michelle Konzack wrote:
> 
> > If aptitude kills your ssh session, I'd be inclined to believe more was 
> > wrong
> > on your machine than just aptitude, but I guess that's up to whoever ends up
> > debugging this to find out.
> 
> The problem is, that the Servers are in Tehran and I am in
> Strasbourg.  I do not know how to debug this on distance...

Maybe try to run aptitude in a screen(1). Maybe your ssh session can
then survive this and you can capture a backtrace with gdb?


 - Alexander
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Re: Debian GNU/Minix?

[Miriam Ruiz]

 --- Marco d'Itri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió:

> On Oct 10, HXC <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > I am wondering if it is possible to use the Minix kernel in Debian. If 
> No.

Why?




__ 
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Llamadas a fijos y móviles desde 1 céntimo por minuto. 
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Packages up for adoption

[Steve Kemp]

  I've recently orphaned all my packages whilst being on a 
 bit of hiatus from project work.

  Several packages are still unclaimed, although people have
 offered on some of them.  Please take a look at the list if
 you're interested:

   * debian-builder[O][O]
   * driftnet
   * dsniff
   * flawfinder
   * gnump3d
   * komi
   * late
   * libcgi-session-expiresessions-perl[O]
   * libnids
   * pscan
   * rats

   Several packages have a willing co-maintainer and none have massive
  amounts of work to do for them.

Steve
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Re: Debian GNU/Minix?

[Henrique Haas]

I found a FAQ of a project called Preventa, that aim make this port to Minix3:

http://www.braincells.com/debian/index.cgi/search/item=126

the project seems up to date, but not interesting in help of community, 
possibly waiting for release with a little maturity.

;), I like this in university environment.

On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 21:01:21 +0200 (CEST), Miriam Ruiz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> 
>  --- Marco d'Itri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió:
> 
>> On Oct 10, HXC <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> > I am wondering if it is possible to use the Minix kernel in Debian. If
>> No.
> 
> Why?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo.
> Llamadas a fijos y móviles desde 1 céntimo por minuto.
> http://es.voice.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> --
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> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: how to tell people to dpkg-reconfigure exim4-_CONFIG_?

[Reinhard Tartler]

Don Armstrong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Tue, 10 Oct 2006, Reinhard Tartler wrote:
>> Cons: Untranslated message
>> Pros: less annoying by not interrupting installs and upgrades, easy to
>>   implement
>
> Cons: Can't be easily seen in non-console frontends, dissapears off of
> the screen rapidly, etc.
>
> Using echo to inform the user of things is really not ideal.
> README.Debian, NEWS.Debian, and low priority debconf notes when
> appropriate are much, much better.

And this is exactly the point: ppl just do 'dpkg-reconfigure exim4' and
then come to irc channels or other forums complaining that nothing
happens. Of course the situation is properly documented in
README.Debian, but the target audience here doesn't read that
documentation.

My point is that `dpkg-reconfigure exim4` is what users seem to expect
to work (without reading documentation). Therefore I suggested adding
some additional information at the point that doesn't behave to what
users expect. I didn't propose how to fix, just a piece of information
for users how to find out how to do what they actually wanted to do.

-- 
Gruesse/greetings,
Reinhard Tartler, KeyID 945348A4


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Re: gids assigned non-deterministically

[Tim Dijkstra]

On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 18:10:42 +0200
Gabor Gombas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 10, 2006 at 03:36:20PM +0200, Tim Dijkstra wrote:
> 
> > That's not an argument someone can just 'chown :plugdev' something.
> 
> Crap. I knew I'd overlook something. I think you could still prevent
> that with SELinux though :-)

Have to read up on SELinux some day, but not now;)
 
> On the other hand I was thinking about if in your case basically all
> user needs to be a member of all these groups anyway, then there is no
> point in having these groups at all. Just make pmount executable by
> anyone, and edit /etc/dbus-1/system.d/{avahi-dbus.conf,hal.conf} and
> replace '' etc. with ' context="default">' or with ''.

> Similarly, if all users have read(/write) access to a device because all
> users are part of the group owning the device node, then you can just
> make that device node a+r(/a+w) and forget about the group.
>
> Of course there may be services running under other uids that you do not
> want to give all access humans has; it has to be decided.

Yes, that doesn't seem like the right solution.

In any case, I'm kind of happy with my current setup. I was just trying
to point out that pam_group has it draw backs.

grts Tim


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Re: Packages up for adoption

[Christoph Haas]

On Tuesday 10 October 2006 21:25, Steve Kemp wrote:
>  I've recently orphaned all my packages whilst being on a
>  bit of hiatus from project work.
>
>* driftnet
>* dsniff

I'll take driftnet. What would a network admin do without it? ;)

I saw that Christian Kujau showed interest in dsniff (bug#390822). I'd be 
willing to be his sponsor if he wants to adopt the package.

 Christoph
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Re: how to tell people to dpkg-reconfigure exim4-_CONFIG_?

[Frank Küster]

Don Armstrong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Tue, 10 Oct 2006, Reinhard Tartler wrote:
>> Cons: Untranslated message
>> Pros: less annoying by not interrupting installs and upgrades, easy to
>>   implement
>
> Cons: Can't be easily seen in non-console frontends, dissapears off of
> the screen rapidly, etc.
>
> Using echo to inform the user of things is really not ideal.
> README.Debian, NEWS.Debian, and low priority debconf notes when
> appropriate are much, much better.

In that case, where the problem is that people do *not* read these
files, and "dpkg-reconfigure exim4" exits silently without doing
anything, it seems to be ideal.

Regards, Frank

-- 
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Single Molecule Spectroscopy, Protein Folding @ Inst. f. Biochemie, Univ. Zürich
Debian Developer (teTeX/TeXLive)

change MIA reporting section in devref?

[Nico Golde]

Hi,
it seems that there are problems with section 7.4 of the 
developers reference[0].

At the moment the devref says:
"One big problem are packages which were sponsored - the 
maintainer is not an official Debian developer. The echelon 
information is not available for sponsored people, for 
example, so you need to find and contact the Debian 
developer who has actually uploaded the package. Given that 
they signed the package, they're responsible for the upload 
anyhow, and should know what happened to the person they 
sponsored. 

It is also allowed to post a query to debian-devel@lists.debian.org, 
asking if anyone is aware of the whereabouts of the missing maintainer."

The problem seems to be that people don't know when to ask 
debian-devel and when not.

What about changing this like:

- It is also allowed to post a query to debian-devel@lists.debian.org, 
- asking if anyone is aware of the whereabouts of the missing maintainer."
+ If they are not, consider to post a query to debian-devel@lists.debian.org,
+ asking if anyone is aware of the whereabouts of the missing maintainer."

Opinions?
Kind regards
Nico
[0] 
http://www.debian.org/doc/developers-reference/ch-beyond-pkging.en.html#s-mia-qa
-- 
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Re: Bug#392017: apt.conf contains Acquire::HTTP::Proxy "false", does apt-listbugs need to support it?

[Frans Pop]

On Tuesday 10 October 2006 15:34, Junichi Uekawa wrote:
> Today, I've received at least two reports about people who have set
> Acquire::HTTP::Proxy "false"
>
> From reading apt.conf manpage, the correct configuration is "DIRECT".
>
> Why are people setting this value "false", and do I need to support it
> in apt-listbugs?

This is probably due to an error that was present for some time in Debian 
Installer:

apt-setup (1:0.15) unstable; urgency=low

  * Fix broken proxy setting code in 90security. Closes: #378868
Some systems installed before this fix will have Acquire::http::proxy
"false" set in apt.conf, which leads to breakage in some situations.
Also, if a proxy was set, it would not be written to the file.

 -- Joey Hess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  Thu, 17 Aug 2006 17:45:07 -0400

Cheers,
FJP


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Re: Bug#390754: O: piuparts -- .deb package installation, upgrading, and removal testing tool

[Ian Jackson]

John Wright writes ("Re: Bug#390754: O: piuparts -- .deb package installation, 
upgrading, and removal testing tool"):
> I would be interested in co-maintaining this package.  I don't think I
> have the time to give it the full attention it would need (e.g.  filing
> bugs on packages that fail), but I could handle it with one or two other
> people.

I'm also interested.  In particular, I need piuparts to be in
reasonable shape so that I can glue it into my incipient Xen+LVM
automated testing framework, which I'm doing as part of my
Canonical-funded work on Ubuntu but which I'm pretty sure will be easy
to make run on Debian packages too.

Ian.


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Re: Debian GNU/Minix?

[HXC]

Javier-Elias Vasquez-Vivas wrote:
On 10/16/06, Mohsen Pahlevanzadeh
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  
  HXC wrote:


> I am wondering if it is possible to use the Minix kernel in
Debian. If

> so wouldn't that be an interesting project to release a Debian
minix

> version? (just like Debian BSD and Debian Hurd :-) )

  
  
This same question has been risen before.  I bet you'd find some
  
answers in previous descussions.  There was an attempt announced:
  
  
http://www.braincells.com/debian/index.cgi/search/item=126
  
  
But it also specifies no help request, neither any support required.
  
You might want to ask Jaldhar about his progress on this.
  
  
  
  Why Minix?Do you like kernel
development?Minix just have an application

in teaching

Of course,it's good idea

  
  
Since minix3, that's no longer true:
  
  
http://www.minix3.org/
  
  
Quoting:
  
  
"What Is MINIX 3?
  
MINIX 3 is a new open-source operating system designed to be highly
  
reliable, flexible, and secure. It is loosely based somewhat on
  
previous versions of MINIX, but is fundamentally different in many key
  
ways. MINIX 1 and 2 were intended as teaching tools; MINIX 3 adds the
  
new goal of being usable as a serious system on resource-limited and
  
embedded computers and for applications requiring high reliability"
  
  
As you can see, it's no longer just an OS teaching tools.  To me it
  
sounds like the option while hurd-ng is still not converging to a
  
uKernel decision.
  
  



Thanks for the link! I agree with your last statement. 

Another neat feature of Minix:
Another feature of this version, which will be improved in future ones,
is the ability of the system to withstand device driver crashes, and in
many cases having them automatically replaced without affecting running
processes. In this way, MINIX is self-healing
and can be used in applications demanding high reliability.

Re: anticipating the upstart migration

[Ian Jackson]

Gustavo Noronha Silva writes ("Re: anticipating the upstart migration"):
> The alternatives system is quite mature; it suffered from leaving
> dangling alternatives, but that was ages ago...

The alternatives system must not be used for any of the essential
files of an essential package.

This is because there must never be an instant where the system
doesn't have (for example) /sbin/init; if the upgrade were interrupted
at that point the system would be unbootable.

Ian.


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Re: Making SELinux standard for etch

[Ian Jackson]

Manoj Srivastava writes ("Making SELinux standard for etch"):
> We are at a point where we can support a targeted SELinux
>  policy, at least in permissive mode.  Everything seems to work for
>  me; I can fire up targeted SELinux UML's and only see a few harmless
>  log messages.

I am deeply uninspired with the SELinux approach to security.  I think
SELinux is the wrong answer to the problem it is being touted to
tackle and we should be thinking about dropping it, rather than
deploying it (even after an explicit choice).

The basic approach seems to be to try to deal with complex protocols,
resulting in buggy applications, by introducing a new layer which
contains as-yet-unprecedented complexity and confusion.

Furthermore, the SELinux patches I have seen in various applications
have given me an extremely poor impression of the code quality[1].
This will probably extend to other areas of SELinux.

I say, ditch SELinux.

Ian.

[1] Here's just one example, from src/archives.c in dpkg:

  #ifdef WITH_SELINUX
/*
 * if selinux is enabled, restore the default security context
 */
if (selinux_enabled > 0)
  if(setfscreatecon(NULL) < 0)
perror("Error restoring default security context:");
  #endif /* WITH_SELINUX */

Error checking ?  We don't need no steenking error checking, this is
SECURITY software !  Quick, dump your brains and deploy it !


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Re: anticipating the upstart migration

[Eric Dorland]

* Ian Jackson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> Gustavo Noronha Silva writes ("Re: anticipating the upstart migration"):
> > The alternatives system is quite mature; it suffered from leaving
> > dangling alternatives, but that was ages ago...
> 
> The alternatives system must not be used for any of the essential
> files of an essential package.
> 
> This is because there must never be an instant where the system
> doesn't have (for example) /sbin/init; if the upgrade were interrupted
> at that point the system would be unbootable.

Shouldn't it be possible to move the alternatives around in an atomic
fashion? ln -sf bar foo.tmp ; mv foo.tmp foo . Or am I missing
something? 

-- 
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Bug#391246: general: Buildds should consider changing $HOME

[Ian Jackson]

On Wed, OcFt 04, 2006 at 09:32:16AM +0200, Frank Küster wrote:
> However, I'd like to point out that this problem is not special to TeX.
> Many programs create ~/.progname directories when run for the first time
> - and these directories contain configuration options which might cause
> trouble, since they are not updated or subject to dpkg conffile
> questions when the package changes configuration options.  It might be a
> good thing to require such tools to have a commandline switch or obey a
> commandline variable that prevents this.  Alternatively, HOME could be
> set to the temporary build directory, so that everything happens there.

It seems to me that a package build should not
 * depend on $HOME not containing reasonable settings
 * change anything in $HOME

If the package runs some program which spews droppings all over $HOME,
or which might malfunction if the user has an unusual personal
configuration, then it should set $HOME itself.

Ian.

Re: Debian GNU/Minix?

[Mohsen Pahlevanzadeh]

HXC wrote:

I am wondering if it is possible to use the Minix kernel in Debian. If 
so wouldn't that be an interesting project to release a Debian minix 
version? (just like Debian BSD and Debian Hurd :-) )



Why Minix?Do you like kernel development?Minix just have an application 
in teaching

Of course,it's good idea


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Re: Debian GNU/Minix?

[Javier-Elias Vasquez-Vivas]

On 10/16/06, Mohsen Pahlevanzadeh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

HXC wrote:

> I am wondering if it is possible to use the Minix kernel in Debian. If
> so wouldn't that be an interesting project to release a Debian minix
> version? (just like Debian BSD and Debian Hurd :-) )


This same question has been risen before.  I bet you'd find some
answers in previous descussions.  There was an attempt announced:

http://www.braincells.com/debian/index.cgi/search/item=126

But it also specifies no help request, neither any support required.
You might want to ask Jaldhar about his progress on this.



Why Minix?Do you like kernel development?Minix just have an application
in teaching
Of course,it's good idea


Since minix3, that's no longer true:

http://www.minix3.org/

Quoting:

"What Is MINIX 3?
MINIX 3 is a new open-source operating system designed to be highly
reliable, flexible, and secure. It is loosely based somewhat on
previous versions of MINIX, but is fundamentally different in many key
ways. MINIX 1 and 2 were intended as teaching tools; MINIX 3 adds the
new goal of being usable as a serious system on resource-limited and
embedded computers and for applications requiring high reliability"

As you can see, it's no longer just an OS teaching tools.  To me it
sounds like the option while hurd-ng is still not converging to a
uKernel decision.

--
Javier


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Re: apt-findremovable v0.1 (initial release)

[Gabor Gombas]

On Sat, Oct 07, 2006 at 06:30:33PM +0200, Michelle Konzack wrote:

> If I tell the Maintainer: "I am connecting over ssh2 using keys
> to two of my servers in Tehran, I want to install something and
> I choose aptitude for better searching, aptitude crashs and kill
> the ssh session", he/she will close immediatly the bugreport,
> because this NO bugreport.

You could check the logs: if sshd is killed, that should be logged. And
you can strace sshd from the point you connect to the point it dies, and
then you'd know why it died. Or you can start sshd in debugging mode.

The thing is, if a crashing app can kill the ssh connection then your
system is broken. If you're the sysadmin, then it's _your job_ to find
out why. You can ask if you don't know how to debug such a situation,
but just complaining instead of doing the work will get you nowhere.

> The problem is, that the Servers are in Tehran and I am in
> Strasbourg.  I do not know how to debug this on distance...

man strace. Enable core dumps if they are disabled (e.g. because you've
started sshd with 'ulimit -c 0' in effect) and look for core files.
Check the logs; if it's OOM, it will be logged, if ssh dies due to a
signal it ought to be logged. You can always start a second sshd on a
non-standard port if you're afraid of losing connectivity during
debugging.

Gabor

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Re: MIA: Masayuki Hatta

[Masayuki Hatta]

Hi,

> In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
>   NOKUBI Takatsugu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At Mon, 9 Oct 2006 13:37:25 +0200 (MEST),
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Is Masayuki Hatta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> MIA?

> I can see his activity on a Japanese local SNS, so he would forget or
> filtered as a spam.

I am not an MIA (though I should admit I am not so active as a DD
these days), and seems your mail has been lost in somewhere.  Anyway I
will prepare new enchant package.  Thanks for reporting.

Best,
MH

--
Masayuki Hatta
Graduate School of Economics, The University of Tokyo


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Bug#391246: general: Buildds should consider changing $HOME

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 07:09:21PM +0200, Frank Küster wrote:
> Package: general
> Severity: wishlist
> 
> "general" is not the best package to report this to, but since there's
> no "buildd" package, and I don't want it to be completely forgotten,
> I'll report it here.  I'm quoting from a bugreport where we came across
> this, http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=388399;msg=123:

Good that it's not a bug against a buildd package, since there it should
be tagged 'wontfix'.

> Steve Langasek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, Oct 04, 2006 at 09:32:16AM +0200, Frank Küster wrote:
> > 
> > > However, I'd like to point out that this problem is not special to TeX.
> > > Many programs create ~/.progname directories when run for the first time
> > > - and these directories contain configuration options which might cause
> > > trouble, since they are not updated or subject to dpkg conffile
> > > questions when the package changes configuration options.  It might be a
> > > good thing to require such tools to have a commandline switch or obey a
> > > commandline variable that prevents this.  Alternatively, HOME could be
> > > set to the temporary build directory, so that everything happens there.

Even more alternatively, these tools should not fail horribly when
writing to directories in $HOME seems impossible for some reason. That
falls under 'standard good programming practices'.

-- 
 Home is where you have to wash the dishes.
  -- #debian-devel, Freenode, 2004-09-22

Re: anticipating the upstart migration

[Gabor Gombas]

On Tue, Oct 10, 2006 at 05:25:57PM -0400, Eric Dorland wrote:

> Shouldn't it be possible to move the alternatives around in an atomic
> fashion? ln -sf bar foo.tmp ; mv foo.tmp foo . Or am I missing
> something? 

- If you set up the alternatives in preinst, then there is a time when
  the symlink exists but the pointed binary hasn't been unpacked yet ->
  unbootable system.
- If you set up the alternatives in postinst, there is a time when there
  is no /sbin/init at all -> unbootable system.

It's not enough to install a single link atomically. Unpacking
/sbin/init.upstart AND setting the /sbin/init symlink AND setting the
/etc/alternatives/init symlink _together_ would have to be atomic.

Gabor

-- 
 -
 MTA SZTAKI Computer and Automation Research Institute
Hungarian Academy of Sciences
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Re: Non-free IETF RFC/I-Ds in source packages

[Gervase Markham]

Simon Josefsson wrote:

http://wiki.debian.org/NonFreeIETFDocuments


A useful thing to add to that page would be simple instructions on how 
those authoring IETF documents could make them available under a 
DFSG-free licence (presumably in parallel to the IETF one) - perhaps 
some sample boilerplate text to include.


Gerv


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Re: how to tell people to dpkg-reconfigure exim4-_CONFIG_?

[Don Armstrong]

On Tue, 10 Oct 2006, Reinhard Tartler wrote:
> My point is that `dpkg-reconfigure exim4` is what users seem to
> expect to work (without reading documentation). Therefore I
> suggested adding some additional information at the point that
> doesn't behave to what users expect. I didn't propose how to fix,
> just a piece of information for users how to find out how to do what
> they actually wanted to do.

So have a note in exim4's debconf which tells the users that, and only
display the note if DEBCONF_RECONFIGURE=1 or $1='reconfigure'.


Don Armstrong

-- 
LEADERSHIP -- A form of self-preservation exhibited by people with
autodestructive imaginations in order to ensure that when it comes to
the crunch it'll be someone else's bones which go crack and not their
own. 
 -- The HipCrime Vocab by Chad C. Mulligan 
(John Brunner _Stand On Zanzibar_ p256-7)

http://www.donarmstrong.com  http://rzlab.ucr.edu


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Re: anticipating the upstart migration

[Eric Dorland]

* Gabor Gombas ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 10, 2006 at 05:25:57PM -0400, Eric Dorland wrote:
> 
> > Shouldn't it be possible to move the alternatives around in an atomic
> > fashion? ln -sf bar foo.tmp ; mv foo.tmp foo . Or am I missing
> > something? 
> 
> - If you set up the alternatives in preinst, then there is a time when
>   the symlink exists but the pointed binary hasn't been unpacked yet ->
>   unbootable system.
> - If you set up the alternatives in postinst, there is a time when there
>   is no /sbin/init at all -> unbootable system.

The second case is only true if the init providing packages conflict
with each other, which I don't think would necessarily be the case. 
 
> It's not enough to install a single link atomically. Unpacking
> /sbin/init.upstart AND setting the /sbin/init symlink AND setting the
> /etc/alternatives/init symlink _together_ would have to be atomic.

-- 
Eric Dorland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
ICQ: #61138586, Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Debian GNU/Minix?

[Kevin Mark]

On Tue, Oct 10, 2006 at 07:22:29PM +0200, HXC wrote:
> I am wondering if it is possible to use the Minix kernel in Debian. If 
> so wouldn't that be an interesting project to release a Debian minix 
> version? (just like Debian BSD and Debian Hurd :-) )
Hi HXC,
with FLOSS, there is nothing preventing you from starting such an
effort, look what happened to Linus. But the question is will Debian
accept it as an official project, will anyone from Debian choose to help
you or contribute? Not so far.
The usual approach in FLOSS projects is to:
start it yourself, Create enough of a project that you can allow people
to see the work you did and then wait for people to start getting enough
interest to join you.
But the first move is yours, if it is really something you are serious
in doing.
cheers,
Kev
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| : :' :  The  Universal | debian.home.pipeline.com |
| `. `'  Operating System| go to counter.li.org and |
|   `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656   |
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Bug#392266: RFH: openscenegraph -- 3d scenegraph

[OuoU]

Package: wnpp
Severity: normal

In order to speed up the production of the package when a new upstream
release becomes available, I'd like to get help. Being able to upload
the package within short delay is greatly appreciated.

YOU don't have to be an official Debian Developer to help.

Please contact me.

Thans.


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Re: Bug#391246: general: Buildds should consider changing $HOME

[Frank Küster]

Ian Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Wed, OcFt 04, 2006 at 09:32:16AM +0200, Frank Küster wrote:
>> However, I'd like to point out that this problem is not special to TeX.
>> Many programs create ~/.progname directories when run for the first time
>> - and these directories contain configuration options which might cause
>> trouble, since they are not updated or subject to dpkg conffile
>> questions when the package changes configuration options.  It might be a
>> good thing to require such tools to have a commandline switch or obey a
>> commandline variable that prevents this.  Alternatively, HOME could be
>> set to the temporary build directory, so that everything happens there.
>
> It seems to me that a package build should not
>  * depend on $HOME not containing reasonable settings
>  * change anything in $HOME
>
> If the package runs some program which spews droppings all over $HOME,
> or which might malfunction if the user has an unusual personal
> configuration, then it should set $HOME itself.

Yes, that's the ideal solution.  In the real world, my suggestion may
improve the situation faster.

Just got an other idea, slower too, but makes the "ideal solution" more
realistic:  Someone writes a tool analogous to piuparts, but not for
install/upgrade, but for package building.  This tool would check
whether any tool used in the build process does nasty things, like
accessing $HOME, communicating over the network, assuming existence of
particular files in /sys or /proc, and the like.

(No, I'm not qualified to write such a tool)

Regards, Frank
-- 
Dr. Frank Küster
Single Molecule Spectroscopy, Protein Folding @ Inst. f. Biochemie, Univ. Zürich
Debian Developer (teTeX/TeXLive)

Re: Bug#391246: general: Buildds should consider changing $HOME

[Mike Hommey]

On Wed, Oct 11, 2006 at 07:55:54AM +0200, Frank Küster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> Yes, that's the ideal solution.  In the real world, my suggestion may
> improve the situation faster.
> 
> Just got an other idea, slower too, but makes the "ideal solution" more
> realistic:  Someone writes a tool analogous to piuparts, but not for
> install/upgrade, but for package building.  This tool would check
> whether any tool used in the build process does nasty things, like
> accessing $HOME, communicating over the network, assuming existence of
> particular files in /sys or /proc, and the like.

Something similar should be done with package installations... I hate
that my /root is cluttered with .gconf, .anthy, .gnome, .gnupg, .qt ...
while I never run that kind of software as root...

Mike


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