Icons and instructions for the FreeDesktop menu.

[Charles Plessy]

Le Tue, Jan 16, 2007 at 09:43:43PM +0100, Loïc Minier a écrit :
> 
>  Why reinvent the wheel in the Debian menu system?  Why would I want to
>  convert nicely looking upstream icons to an old format which can only
>  look uglier?  All desktop environments support pngs, and even svgs.

Hi all,

am I wrong or one can have foo.png in foo.desktop, and foo.xpm in
foo.menu? If upstream does not provide an xpm icon, the "convert"
command of the imagemagick package can easily create one at build time.

Also, I have the impression that the Debian menu system is not a
reinvented wheel, but an old wheel kept in the car in case it is needed.
Both systems are not in competition in my opinion.

Lastly, as a maintainer of packages wich are not part of a
FreeDesktop-compatible suite, I would welcome instructions about where
and when registering an application in the FreeDesktop menu. Or even
better, a policy.

Not being a user of this menu, I have a hard time guessing what users
expect.

Have a nice day,

-- 
Charles Plessy
http://charles.plessy.org
Wako, Saitama, Japan


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Re: Bugs in default GNOME etch?

[Steve Langasek]

On Tue, Jan 16, 2007 at 05:55:53PM +0100, Michael Banck wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 16, 2007 at 05:22:51PM +0100, Tim Dijkstra wrote:
> > On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 17:03:15 +0100
> > Loïc Minier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >  Just FYI, I *personally* would prefer an evince entry in the menu as
> > >  well, but I prefer keeping close to the usability policy defined by
> > >  upstream.

> > Well we shouldn't keep ourselves hostage of stupid upstream behaviour,
> > should we?

> Contrary to us, GNOME (in this case RedHat) actually employs usability
> experts.  Who are we to think we know better?

Real users with brains, instead of the idealized "ooh I'm afraid of
computers eek a mouse kill it kill it!!!" novice idiots who are the
exclusive target of all modern usability testing?

All computer usability studies I've seen in the past 4 or so years have
focused entirely on how a user who has never seen the interface before is
able to accomplish tasks, with no consideration given to the long-term
efficiency of the interfaces that happen to have the lowest inital learning
curve.  Thus their goal is to help win market share, not to help make users
more productive, and should be shunned as the near-sighted marketing crap
they really are.

Cheers :),
-- 
Steve Langasek   Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer   to set it on, and I can move the world.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.debian.org/


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Re: Bugs in default GNOME etch?

[Luca Capello]

Hello!

On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 17:03:15 +0100, Loïc Minier wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 16, 2007, Luca Capello wrote:
>> - evince (a document *viewer*) is to be launched from Nautilus ->
>> no GNOME menu entry
>> - eog (an image *viewer*)should be the same IMHO ->
>> GNOME menu entry
>
> Yeah, well, the new policy isn't implemented in all programs; I
> don't know whether this is implemented in eog's upstreeam tree
> already.
>
> Basically the same remarks as yours are answered by upstream in this
> upstream report:
>

Thank you for the useful link.  As I stated in my first post, I didn't
checked for all the bugs I found (I planned to do it only if they're
real bugs).  Now, after having read the evince BTS page, I found it as
bug #341551 [1].

> Just FYI, I *personally* would prefer an evince entry in the menu as
> well, but I prefer keeping close to the usability policy defined by
> upstream.

I completely agree about being synced with upstream, even when it
doesn't follow maintainer's personal preferences.

> As I said, you're free to edit this to your test.  I didn't test it,
> but I suppose GNOME menu editors can switch evince.desktop to being
> displayed again.

As I wrote in my first post, I'm no more a GNOME user, as I use mostly
stumpwm [2] and sometimes ratpoison [3].

Thank you for your time, stopping here for evince in the GNOME menu.

Thx, bye,
Gismo / Luca

Footnotes: 
[1] http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=341551
[2] http://packages.debian.org/stumpwm
[3] http://packages.debian.org/ratpoison


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Re: Bugs in default GNOME etch?

[Luca Capello]

Hello!

On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 17:19:58 +0100, Loïc Minier wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 16, 2007, Luca Capello wrote:
>> Thus, evince Debian menu entry has two bugs: not an xpm icon and
>> the actual png icon is missing (the latter more important IMHO).
>
> Fixed in 0.4.0-5.

You forgot to close bug #391194 [1].

Thx, bye,
Gismo / Luca

Footnotes: 
[1] http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=391194


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Re: /var like dir accessible early in boot sequence

[Goswin von Brederlow]

Tim Dijkstra <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Hi,
>
> We need a directory, which is accessible very very early during boot.
> It has some files in it which are regenerated at regular intervals, but
> not (necessarily) during boot. Actually we know generate it during
> runlevels 0 and 6.
>
> For know we put this in /lib/$package. I'm not sure this OK, because it
> means we will write to / also when we're not installing
> packages. /var/lib seems better, but that is not available that early.
> If it is really necessary we could generate the information during
> boot, so maybe /lib/init/rw?
>
> Comments?
>
> grts Tim

/lib/$package is obviously wrong. That might not be writable during
boot or even ever (apart from package installation time).

If you need the info during boot before networking and /var is there
then it must be on / or generated and you must not write to / outside
of package installation time.

So do you see any other choice but /lib/init/rw?


If generating that info is expensive then you could check for
/var/lib/package/. If it doesn't exist then you fallback to
/etc/init/rw/ and generate the info. Later in the boot process you can
move the info from /etc/init/rw to /var/lib/package or just delete it
if /var/lib/package needs no update.

Many people have /var on / or at least as local filesystem. Depending
on how early you need the info and depending on the setup /var might
just be there saving you the time, or it might not. It must be
possible to use with /var on nfs or the like and / read-only. So go
/lib/init/rw. *cheer*

MfG
Goswin


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Bug#407221: ITP: gpe-bluetooth -- Bluetooth connectivity tool for GPE

[Neil Williams]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Neil Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


* Package name: gpe-bluetooth
  Version : 0.54
  Upstream Author : Philip Blundell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://gpe.linuxtogo.org/download/source/
* License : GPL
  Programming Lang: C
  Description : Bluetooth connectivity tool for GPE

 System tray applet for the GPE Palmtop Environment to
 control switching the bluetooth radio on and off and 
 searching for devices.

-- System Information:
Debian Release: 4.0
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (500, 'unstable'), (1, 'experimental')
Architecture: powerpc (ppc)
Shell:  /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash
Kernel: Linux 2.6.18-3-powerpc
Locale: LANG=en_GB.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_GB.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)


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Re: Bugs in default GNOME etch?

[Loïc Minier]

On Tue, Jan 16, 2007, Bernhard R. Link wrote:
> * Lo?c Minier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [070116 10:50]:
> >  I can imagine technical solutions to these problems, such as a) making
> >  XPM optional and automatically generating it when it's not available
> >  (yes, this might result in an ugly icon in some cases, but at least we
> >  will have an ugly icon vaguely ressembling the icon, and it might also
> >  result in nicer icons for PNG capable menu displays), 
> You can just translate the icons yourself.

 I want to spare me the time to do the update manually, but you suggest
 I augment the amount of manual work.  Would the Debian menu system do
 this for me, I wouldn't have to.  I usually prefer it when machines do
 the repetitive instead of me.

>If you consider them ugly,
> just add a new field for "nice" icons and start persuade people to
> tell their menu methods to use those settings first.

 Why reinvent the wheel in the Debian menu system?  Why would I want to
 convert nicely looking upstream icons to an old format which can only
 look uglier?  All desktop environments support pngs, and even svgs.
 And I do not benefit of the Debian menu system personally, I only see
 it as cluttering my GNOME menu, so I prefer spending my time in things
 which improve Debian as well, but which I enjoy doing and don't
 consider useless.

> > b) using the
> >  .desktop files upstream provides to automatically register entries in
> >  the Debian menu (Note that the inverse process exists in menu-xdg :).
> > 
> >  Without this, Debian menu support in Debian packages will always lag
> >  behind as upstream updates its .desktop files, icons etc. or
> >  adds/remove programs.
> 
> Well, to be perhaps a bit too frank: a maintainer that cannot cope with
> menu files should consider orphaning a package.

 I actually don't think orphaning packages make them any better.

 You're welcome to join pkg-gnome and fix the Debian menu entries.  In
 fact, any help is welcome, not just on fixing menu entries.  Hop in
 #gnome-debian on GIMPNet, and I'll be happy to guide you in
 participating to tasks of the team.

> If you do not even know
> which programs appear and vanish, you simply have lost.

 Sorry, but people make mistakes.  This is why we avoid duplicating data
 in databases, and we avoid duplicating code in programs.  I don't see
 why the Debian menu would be so special that it would require me to
 maintain menu entries in parallel to the .desktop files.


 You've taken the time to criticize my personal position with
 respect to the menu system, I suggest you also take the time to read
 the technical proposals I made to improve the menu system.
   The Debian menu system will not magically become useful to me, but at
 least it will automatically cover packages of maintainers which do not
 make it a priority to support the menu system fully in all their
 packages.

-- 
Loïc Minier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Bug#407198: ITP: xfce4-timer-plugin -- timer plugin for Xfce panel

[Yves-Alexis Perez]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Debian Xfce Maintainers 


* Package name: xfce4-timer-plugin
  Version : 0.5.1
  Upstream Author : Kemal Ilgar Eroglu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://www.math.washington.edu/~kieroglu/
* License : GPLv2
  Programming Lang: C
  Description : timer plugin for Xfce panel

 With this plugin you can add timers (alarm or countdown) to your Xfce
 panel. You can run display a warning window and/or run a custom command
 when alarm rings, repeat alarms etc.
 The timer progress is shown as a progress bar in the Xfce panel,
 lasting time displayed on tooltip.

-- System Information:
Debian Release: 4.0
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (500, 'unstable'), (500, 'testing'), (500, 'stable'), (1, 
'experimental')
Architecture: powerpc (ppc)
Shell:  /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash
Kernel: Linux 2.6.19.1
Locale: LANG=fr_FR.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=fr_FR.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)


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Re: localisation in system wide daemons

[Jean-Christophe Dubacq]

Le 16 janv. 07 à 20:13, Don Armstrong a écrit :


This peoples will ask you for help and send all the logfiles maybe
in arabic, hindu or africaan.


So you ask them to translate or rerun the program with an appropriate
locale. Being able to speak all of the languages that Debian is in
isn't a requirement to help anymore than knowing english should be[1]
a requirement to administer one's own system.


Unless the bug is sporadic, happens only in some other locale...

I think log output should be reparsable enough, and interfaces (other  
than less) can translate the logs when viewing them (let's say gnome- 
system-log-viewer...).

--
JCD

Re: Bugs in default GNOME etch?

[Bernhard R. Link]

* Lo?c Minier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [070116 10:50]:
>  I can imagine technical solutions to these problems, such as a) making
>  XPM optional and automatically generating it when it's not available
>  (yes, this might result in an ugly icon in some cases, but at least we
>  will have an ugly icon vaguely ressembling the icon, and it might also
>  result in nicer icons for PNG capable menu displays), 

You can just translate the icons yourself. If you consider them ugly,
just add a new field for "nice" icons and start persuade people to
tell their menu methods to use those settings first. (with most
every admin and most of the time even user can just change that with
a single edit of the menu-methods file).

> b) using the
>  .desktop files upstream provides to automatically register entries in
>  the Debian menu (Note that the inverse process exists in menu-xdg :).
> 
>  Without this, Debian menu support in Debian packages will always lag
>  behind as upstream updates its .desktop files, icons etc. or
>  adds/remove programs.

Well, to be perhaps a bit too frank: a maintainer that cannot cope with
menu files should consider orphaning a package. If you do not even know
which programs appear and vanish, you simply have lost. And simply
copying upstream decisions for names and sections or even icons will
simply make out menu a total mess, as different upstreams will have
different rules.

I hope people will not suggest next to not follow FHS, but install
everything where upstream thinks is the best place to put it, as
Debian packages cleary lack behind because we don't just put it
whereever it ends up... 

Hochachtungsvoll,
  Bernhard R. Link


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Re: localisation in system wide daemons

[Don Armstrong]

On Tue, 16 Jan 2007, Michelle Konzack wrote:
> Am 2007-01-12 07:16:12, schrieb Christian Perrier:
> > Could you explain us your perception of the harm caused by this?
> 
> This peoples will ask you for help and send all the logfiles maybe
> in arabic, hindu or africaan.

So you ask them to translate or rerun the program with an appropriate
locale. Being able to speak all of the languages that Debian is in
isn't a requirement to help anymore than knowing english should be[1]
a requirement to administer one's own system.


Don Armstrong

1: Even though it unfortunatly almost is...
-- 
"I was thinking seven figures," he said, "but I would have taken a
hundred grand. I'm not a greedy person." [All for a moldy bottle of
tropicana.]
 -- Sammi Hadzovic [in Andy Newman's 2003/02/14 NYT article.]
 http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/14/nyregion/14EYEB.html

http://www.donarmstrong.com  http://rzlab.ucr.edu


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Re: Bugs in default GNOME etch?

[Hendrik Sattler]

Am Dienstag 16 Januar 2007 17:55 schrieb Michael Banck:
> On Tue, Jan 16, 2007 at 05:22:51PM +0100, Tim Dijkstra wrote:
> > On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 17:03:15 +0100
> >
> > Loïc Minier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >  Just FYI, I *personally* would prefer an evince entry in the menu as
> > >  well, but I prefer keeping close to the usability policy defined by
> > >  upstream.
> >
> > Well we shouldn't keep ourselves hostage of stupid upstream behaviour,
> > should we?
>
> Contrary to us, GNOME (in this case RedHat) actually employs usability
> experts.  Who are we to think we know better?

Well, because usability is no science where only one thing is the correct 
thing to do? Are the Gnome usability experts do usability tests with new 
users of Gnome?

Actually, both ways have a good usability from a specific POV, depending which 
parts of a user base (each having specific assumptions about how things work) 
you look at.

> The relevant upstream bug is
> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312399
> if you want to have more information about this.

If you actually read it, you see the points that were also in the thread, 
here. Either eog and evince (and all other viewers) are to be hidden or both 
should be visible. Everything in between is actually bad usability.
Looking at the problems mentioned in the above URL, it's better to avoid the 
mentioned problems and unhide them for now, and change that when those 
problems are resolved.

And since they are unhidable, the Gnome people show that they were not _that_ 
sure about the thing with the hidden viewers. They weaken their point with 
such a possibility.

HS

Re: Bugs in default GNOME etch?

[Tim Dijkstra]

On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 17:55:53 +0100
Michael Banck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Tue, Jan 16, 2007 at 05:22:51PM +0100, Tim Dijkstra wrote:
> > On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 17:03:15 +0100
> > Loïc Minier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >  Just FYI, I *personally* would prefer an evince entry in the menu as
> > >  well, but I prefer keeping close to the usability policy defined by
> > >  upstream.
> > 
> > Well we shouldn't keep ourselves hostage of stupid upstream behaviour,
> > should we?
> 
> Contrary to us, GNOME (in this case RedHat) actually employs usability
> experts.  Who are we to think we know better?

You'll see that these so-called experts will be arguing next that
you're not supposed to launch it from a terminal and will move it from
the standard $PATH to /usr/lib/gnome or something

grrr

Tim

Re: Bugs in default GNOME etch?

[Sven Arvidsson]

On Tue, 2007-01-16 at 18:44 +, Ross Burton wrote:
> On Tue, 2007-01-16 at 18:55 +0100, David Weinehall wrote:
> > alacarte:
> > 
> > "Alacarte is an easy-to-use menu editor for GNOME that can add
> >  and edit new entries and menus. It works with the freedesktop.org
> >  menu specification and should work with any desktop environment
> >  that uses the spec."
> > 
> > Presumably people that want to edit their menus can launch this
> > application using the launcher.  It's not really the average
> > everyday tool...
> 
> Isn't this invoked from right clicking on Applications?

It is if you are running gnome-panel 2.16, but not in 2.14 (Etch) I
think. 

Anyway, I think the original poster complained about the lack of a menu
entry for Alacarte in the Debian menu system.

-- 
Cheers,
Sven Arvidsson
http://www.whiz.se
PGP Key ID 760BDD22


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Re: Bugs in default GNOME etch?

[Ross Burton]

On Tue, 2007-01-16 at 18:55 +0100, David Weinehall wrote:
> alacarte:
> 
> "Alacarte is an easy-to-use menu editor for GNOME that can add
>  and edit new entries and menus. It works with the freedesktop.org
>  menu specification and should work with any desktop environment
>  that uses the spec."
> 
> Presumably people that want to edit their menus can launch this
> application using the launcher.  It's not really the average
> everyday tool...

Isn't this invoked from right clicking on Applications?

Ross
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Re: Bugs in default GNOME etch?

[Josselin Mouette]

Le mardi 16 janvier 2007 à 18:59 +0100, Julien Cristau a écrit :
> On Tue, Jan 16, 2007 at 18:55:32 +0100, David Weinehall wrote:
> 
> > PS: My vote for default GNOME browser definitely goes to Epiphany;
> > Firefox^WIceweasel comes nowhere close to feeling like a real GNOME
> > application.
> > 
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-changes/2007/01/msg00952.html

Wow, that was fast. Thanks, Joey. You even added epiphany-extensions
before I had a chance to ask for it :)
-- 
 .''`.
: :' :  We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code.
`. `'   We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to
  `-our own. Resistance is futile.


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Re: Bugs in default GNOME etch?

[Julien Cristau]

On Tue, Jan 16, 2007 at 18:55:32 +0100, David Weinehall wrote:

> PS: My vote for default GNOME browser definitely goes to Epiphany;
> Firefox^WIceweasel comes nowhere close to feeling like a real GNOME
> application.
> 
http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-changes/2007/01/msg00952.html

Cheers,
Julien


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Re: Bugs in default GNOME etch?

[David Weinehall]

On Tue, Jan 16, 2007 at 10:48:03AM +0100, Loïc Minier wrote:
[snip]
> > 5) some programs aren't present in the Debian menu:
> >  alacarte, gnome-btdownload
> 
>  No idea about these.  You're welcome to file bugs if it makes sense to
>  have them in the menu.

gnome-btdownload:

"A simple Gnome interface designed as a mime-sink for BitTorrent files.
 gnome-btdownload allow a user to download files using bittorrent,
 a scatter-gather network.
 .
 Not a front-end, more-or-less just a session dialog. See bittorrent
 for more information."

I think the package description makes it pretty obvious why it's not
present in the menu.

alacarte:

"Alacarte is an easy-to-use menu editor for GNOME that can add
 and edit new entries and menus. It works with the freedesktop.org
 menu specification and should work with any desktop environment
 that uses the spec."

Presumably people that want to edit their menus can launch this
application using the launcher.  It's not really the average
everyday tool...

[snip]


PS: My vote for default GNOME browser definitely goes to Epiphany;
Firefox^WIceweasel comes nowhere close to feeling like a real GNOME
application.


Regards: David Weinehall
-- 
 /) David Weinehall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> /) Rime on my window   (\
//  ~   //  Diamond-white roses of fire //
\)  http://www.acc.umu.se/~tao/(/   Beautiful hoar-frost   (/


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Bug#407173: ITP: gpe-question -- GPE interface for asking questions from shell scripts

[Neil Williams]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Neil Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


* Package name: gpe-question
  Version : 0.04
  Upstream Author : Moray Allan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://gpe.linuxtogo.org/download/source/
* License : GPL
  Programming Lang: C
  Description : GPE interface for asking questions from shell scripts

 Provides dialogues to raise a question within the GPE
 Palmtop Environment with cancel and ok buttons.

-- System Information:
Debian Release: 4.0
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (500, 'unstable'), (1, 'experimental')
Architecture: powerpc (ppc)
Shell:  /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash
Kernel: Linux 2.6.18-3-powerpc
Locale: LANG=en_GB.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_GB.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)


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[ANNOUNCE] tdapp-defaults: localization and themeing

[Michelle Konzack]

Dear Debian Developers, Mentors, Womens, Contributors and Users,

first of all Happy new Year and may this new year bring us many new ideas
and continuing best GNU/Linux distribution of the world.

Now, some of you know me already and for those who do not know me:

My Name is Michelle Konzack, I am 38 years old, working since I am 13
years old in the electronic where I have created my first computer, using
a 8039 singelchip CPU with 2 kByte EEPROM programmed in ASM by hand with
a switchboard.

Also I am coding in C, PHP and TCL (I hate this language).

I am Diplom Engineer for Electronic and have my Master in Informatic.

Currently I am Debian GNU/Linux Consultant in Strasbourg and have the
hell with my (TO MUCH) customers because I can't get suitable co-workers.
So my time is definitivly limited.


Now I want present you a new project which was started for arround 4 
years by the request of two of my customers:

localization and theming of the Xresources/app-defaults

Also I have read arround 40 times on several Mailinglists (not only
Debian) user requesting localization of the app-defaults...

Now after RTFM (Reading The Forgotten Manuals - xspecs), MANY tries
and fails it is done now!  --  UFF!

tdapp-defaults
==
   v. 1.0.0

Currently I am rewriting the Makefiles to be distribution independant
since "tdapp-defaults" was developed under Debian and distibuted only
to my own customers.  Also I must change the localization stuff since
I use po files which make it easier for translators.

This Source package produce under Debian several binary packages

The four main packages are

1)  tdapp-defaults  Super-Meta-Package which depends
on tdapp-defaults-l10n
and tdapp-defaults-themes

2)  tdapp-defaults-l10n Meta-Package for the l10n stuff

3)  tdapp-defaults-themes   Meta-Package for the themes stuff

4)  tdapp-defaults-themes-commonCommon packages for the locales
which include the THEMES selector
and the "blackwhite" theme.

And then, depending on the work on it language packs where currently
available:

5)  tdapp-defaults-l10n-de

The localization is done using PO files to avoid errors in the crappy
Resource files (This was the heaviest thing to get it running correctly)
and last not least the theme packages

6)  tdapp-defaults-theme-lightblue

Currently supported Resources are:

Editres XFontSelXTerm   XbmBrowser
Xcolorsel   Xedit   XmanXmessage

and I am working on:

GXditview   XCalc   XClipboard  XF86Cfg
XPaint  XditviewXvidtune

Since my Website was closed for 16 month (I have to much critic for
the french governement) by french authorities I have currently only a
60 MByte Homepage at 
You find Screenshoots by klicking the link to "tdapp-defaults".

Explanation to the screenshoot:

In the screenshoots you will see first the "Theme Chooser" and after this
"Editres" with four windows:

1)  left  => editres called with Xresource "Editres" 
2)  right => editres called with Xresource "Editres-color"

the two standard Xresources in /etc/X11/app-defaults and then two
localized (german) versions below

3)  left  => editres called with Xresource "Editres"
4)  right => editres called with Xresource "Editres-color"

To get the localization I use two dummy files in /etc/X11//app-defaults
and a localized Resource file with the extensil "-lang"

The after this you see all Windows/Dialogs of Editres in englisch and
german plus a newly added theme called "lightblue"

IMPORTANT NORTE:

Most programs in the Debian package "xbase-clients" do not more start
under Etch since it complain about missing locale...

8<--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/src/tdapp-defaults-0.1.0/] editres
Warning: Unable to load any usable ISO8859 font
Error: Aborting: no font found
8<--

This affect ONLY the Xresources

/etc/X11/app-defaults/
and
/etc/X11/app-defaults/-color

and not the Xresources from "tdapp-defaults", which mean, in the current
state, the package "xbase-clients" is useless without correcting the
fonts or installing my "tdapp-defaults" package.

I have already contacted the maintainers via the BTS.

Please feel free to send me comments but only via the  which I
read and I am subscribed.  I want the discusion open.

Since I am rebuilding the Makefiles for the package, and found some
flaws in the lightblue theme I think I can upload the version 1.0.0 to
 in the next 14 days.

  +-+
  |  And a last note, for peoples WHO want to join the project and  |
  |  produce a the

Re: Bugs in default GNOME etch?

[Michael Banck]

On Tue, Jan 16, 2007 at 05:22:51PM +0100, Tim Dijkstra wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 17:03:15 +0100
> Loïc Minier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >  Just FYI, I *personally* would prefer an evince entry in the menu as
> >  well, but I prefer keeping close to the usability policy defined by
> >  upstream.
> 
> Well we shouldn't keep ourselves hostage of stupid upstream behaviour,
> should we?

Contrary to us, GNOME (in this case RedHat) actually employs usability
experts.  Who are we to think we know better?

The relevant upstream bug is
http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=312399
if you want to have more information about this.

I suggest to move this thread back to debian-gtk-gnome.


Michael


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/var like dir accessible early in boot sequence

[Tim Dijkstra]

Hi,

We need a directory, which is accessible very very early during boot.
It has some files in it which are regenerated at regular intervals, but
not (necessarily) during boot. Actually we know generate it during
runlevels 0 and 6.

For know we put this in /lib/$package. I'm not sure this OK, because it
means we will write to / also when we're not installing
packages. /var/lib seems better, but that is not available that early.
If it is really necessary we could generate the information during
boot, so maybe /lib/init/rw?

Comments?

grts Tim


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Re: Bugs in default GNOME etch?

[Tim Dijkstra]

On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 15:51:29 +0100
Luca Capello <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> > The presence in the menu has to be weighted against the cluttering.  
> 
> If I search for a program, I go to the menu list, not on Nautilus
> (obviously this is my personal behavior, which can surely be different
> From a new user's one).

I don't know. I think 'traditionally' one always had to launch the
correct program from the menu, also on other OSs.

grts Tim


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Re: Bugs in default GNOME etch?

[Tim Dijkstra]

On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 17:03:15 +0100
Loïc Minier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  Just FYI, I *personally* would prefer an evince entry in the menu as
>  well, but I prefer keeping close to the usability policy defined by
>  upstream.

Well we shouldn't keep ourselves hostage of stupid upstream behaviour,
should we?

grts Tim

Re: Bugs in default GNOME etch?

[Loïc Minier]

On Tue, Jan 16, 2007, Luca Capello wrote:
> >> 2) the Debian menu requires xpm icons [2] and in fact only 4
> >>packages have icons in the png format (ekiga, evince, gimp,
> >>gnomemeeting),
> > To be fair, the .png icon referenced by the evince menu file doesn't
> > exist...
> I know and in fact I wrote at point 1:
>  some entries in the Debian menu lack the icon:
>evince, yelp, sound-juicer, gnome-cups-manager (both entries),
>^^
>gnome-utils (gnome-screenshot), gucharmap, foomatic-gui,
>gnome-system-monitor, grdesktop, gsynaptics, ekiga
> Thus, evince Debian menu entry has two bugs: not an xpm icon and the
> actual png icon is missing (the latter more important IMHO).

 Fixed in 0.4.0-5.

-- 
Loïc Minier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Re: localisation in system wide daemons

[Michelle Konzack]

Am 2007-01-12 07:16:12, schrieb Christian Perrier:
> > I do not like to see Debian doing the same thing...
> 
> 
> You mean doing what's needed to be by default accessible to people who
> don't speak English if they did choose to install in another language
> than English?
> 
> Could you explain us your perception of the harm caused by this?

This peoples will ask you for help and send all
the logfiles maybe in arabic, hindu or africaan.

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day
Michelle Konzack


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Re: Bug#407123: ITP: gpe-othello -- othello board game for GPE

[Steve Greenland]

On 16-Jan-07, 05:26 (CST), Neil Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
>   Description : othello board game for GPE

(along with other GPE games, etc.)

Why does this belong in Debian? Do Palm devices now run Debian?

Steve

-- 
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The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating
system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the
world.   -- seen on the net


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Re: Bugs in default GNOME etch?

[Loïc Minier]

On Tue, Jan 16, 2007, Luca Capello wrote:
> - evince (a document *viewer*) is to be launched from Nautilus ->
> no GNOME menu entry
> - eog (an image *viewer*)should be the same IMHO ->
> GNOME menu entry

 Yeah, well, the new policy isn't implemented in all programs; I don't
 know whether this is implemented in eog's upstreeam tree already.

 Basically the same remarks as yours are answered by upstream in this
 upstream report:


 Just FYI, I *personally* would prefer an evince entry in the menu as
 well, but I prefer keeping close to the usability policy defined by
 upstream.

 As I said, you're free to edit this to your test.  I didn't test it,
 but I suppose GNOME menu editors can switch evince.desktop to being
 displayed again.

-- 
Loïc Minier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Re: Bugs in default GNOME etch?

[Luca Capello]

Hello!

NB, if you keep d-d as to: or cc:, please don't cc: me, I read the
list.

On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 10:11:36 +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> Le mardi 16 janvier 2007 à 02:46 +0100, Luca Capello a écrit :
>> 6) gnome-panel gives an .xsession-errors because "Unable to open
>>desktop file epiphany.desktop for panel launcher".  This is normal
>>as epiphany isn't installed by default, but I'd suggest to install
>>the firefox.desktop instead.
>
> Epiphany is not installed by default? If this is the case, I consider it
> a very important bug in debian-installer.
[...]
> The GNOME desktop as a whole is configured to use epiphany, which
> has decent desktop integration, which firefox/iceweasel has not.

I was also surprised that epiphany wasn't installed by default.

To be sure this is a *bug* (now I consider it for the reason below), I
installed a Debin etch with KDE via the full CD image [1].  Indeed, on
KDE Konqueror is installed by default and it's the default browser
(i.e. the one present in the status bar).  Thus, I don't understand
why Debian GNOME should rely on Iceweasel.

> Can anyone in debian-boot confirm that the aptitude behaviour leads to
> epiphany not being installed? If this the case, what solution would you
> suggest? (The obvious solution of not installing the ugly
> firefox/iceweasel and confusing users with two browsers having been
> repeatedly refused by the d-i team.)

I'd suggest both (i.e. DE's browser and Iceweasel), as it's the case
for Debian KDE.  The user will have the epiphany icon on the GNOME
panel, but Iceweasel will still be available in the GNOME menu.

Thx, bye,
Gismo / Luca

Footnotes: 
[1] 
http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/i386/iso-cd/debian-testing-i386-kde-CD-1.iso


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Re: Bugs in default GNOME etch?

[Luca Capello]

Hello!

On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 14:29:04 +0100, Loïc Minier wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 16, 2007, Tim Dijkstra wrote:
>> Why shouldn't I want to fire up evince when I know I have a
>> pdf/ps/etc file on disk I wan't to read? It has a normal
>> 'open'-button...
>
> Sure, this is possible, and you can add a launcher for evince if you
> really like, or edit your menu, or launch evince from the "Run
> command" dialog, or from a terminal.

I think a bit of consistency should be used here:

- evince (a document *viewer*) is to be launched from Nautilus ->
no GNOME menu entry

- eog (an image *viewer*)should be the same IMHO ->
GNOME menu entry

> The presence in the menu has to be weighted against the cluttering.

If I search for a program, I go to the menu list, not on Nautilus
(obviously this is my personal behavior, which can surely be different
From a new user's one).

Moreover, a well-arranged menu is for sure not cluttered and we're
talking about one more entry, while OpenOffice.ord Draw is listed
twice (Graphics and Office) and the same for Gnomebaker (Accessories
and Sound&Video).

Just my 0.02€, I consider this situation as a very minor one, so I
don't bother more :-)

Thx, bye,
Gismo / Luca


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Re: Bugs in default GNOME etch?

[Luca Capello]

Hello!

On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 10:46:45 +0100, Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt wrote:
> Luca Capello <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> 2) the Debian menu requires xpm icons [2] and in fact only 4
>>packages have icons in the png format (ekiga, evince, gimp,
>>gnomemeeting),
>
> To be fair, the .png icon referenced by the evince menu file doesn't
> exist...

I know and in fact I wrote at point 1:

 some entries in the Debian menu lack the icon:
   evince, yelp, sound-juicer, gnome-cups-manager (both entries),
   ^^
   gnome-utils (gnome-screenshot), gucharmap, foomatic-gui,
   gnome-system-monitor, grdesktop, gsynaptics, ekiga

Thus, evince Debian menu entry has two bugs: not an xpm icon and the
actual png icon is missing (the latter more important IMHO).

Thx, bye,
Gismo / Luca


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Re: Bugs in default GNOME etch?

[Joey Hess]

Luca Capello wrote:
> 7) why still Gnomemeeting by default instead of Ekiga (which AFAIK is
>the default VoIP client since GNOME 2.14)?

This is fixed in gnome-desktop-environment 1:2.14.3.5, which is due to
reach etch in 2 days, assuming a freeze exception is requested and
granted for the new version.

-- 
see shy jo


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Bug#407139: ITP: gpe-lights -- Lights Out game clone for GPE

[Neil Williams]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Neil Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


* Package name: gpe-lights
  Version : 0.13
  Upstream Author : Andreas T. Hagli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://gpe.linuxtogo.org/download/source/
* License : GPL
  Programming Lang: C
  Description : Lights Out game clone for GPE

 A puzzle game for the GPE Palmtop Environment. 
 The game is a 5x5 grid of lights, and when the 
 game starts, a sequence of these lights (random, 
 or one of a set of stored puzzle patterns) are 
 switched on. Pressing one of the lights will toggle 
 it and the four adjacent lights between on and off. 
 The aim of the game is to switch all the lights off.

-- System Information:
Debian Release: 4.0
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (500, 'unstable'), (1, 'experimental')
Architecture: powerpc (ppc)
Shell:  /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash
Kernel: Linux 2.6.18-3-powerpc
Locale: LANG=en_GB.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_GB.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)


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Re: Bugs in default GNOME etch?

[Loïc Minier]

On Tue, Jan 16, 2007, Tim Dijkstra wrote:
>   Why shouldn't I want to fire up evince when I
> know I have a pdf/ps/etc file on disk I wan't to read? It has a
> normal 'open'-button...

 Sure, this is possible, and you can add a launcher for evince if you
 really like, or edit your menu, or launch evince from the "Run command"
 dialog, or from a terminal.

 The presence in the menu has to be weighted against the cluttering.

-- 
Loïc Minier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Bug#407124: ITP: gpe-go -- two player board game for GPE

[Peter Palfrader]

On Tue, 16 Jan 2007, Neil Williams wrote:

> * Package name: gpe-go
>   Description : two player board game for GPE
> 
>  Go[..]

Please also say what GPE is.

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Re: Bugs in default GNOME etch?

[Tim Dijkstra]

On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 10:46:45 +0100
Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Luca Capello <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > 2) the Debian menu requires xpm icons [2] and in fact only 4 packages
> >have icons in the png format (ekiga, evince, gimp, gnomemeeting),
> 
> To be fair, the .png icon referenced by the evince menu file doesn't
> exist...
> 
> > 4) evince doesn't appear by default on the GNOME Applications list (it
> >happened on three different installations).  Maybe it's not the
> >only one, but I cannot find any others.
> 
> That is intentional, as evince is not intended to be invoked
> directly. Other applications (such as browsers, nautilus) can and will
> open files in evince when the user is trying to see a
> PDF/PS/DjVu/DVI/... file. 

That is a bogus argument. Why shouldn't I want to fire up evince when I
know I have a pdf/ps/etc file on disk I wan't to read? It has a
normal 'open'-button...

grts


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Re: Upgrade from woody to sarge - ssh strangeness

[Turbo Fredriksson]

Quoting Lionel Elie Mamane <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> On Tue, Jan 16, 2007 at 08:31:12AM +0100, Turbo Fredriksson wrote:
>> Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
>
>>> If memory serves, you need to edit /etc/ssh/sshd_config, uncomment
>>> the "PasswordAuthentication yes" line, and reload ssh.
>
>> With that, I only get:
>
>> Jan 16 08:28:01 pumba sshd[24998]: Failed password for turbo from 
>>  port 1956 ssh2
>> Jan 16 08:28:13 pumba sshd[25003]: error: Could not get shadow information 
>> for turbo
>> Jan 16 08:28:13 pumba sshd[25003]: Failed password for turbo from 
>>  port 1957 ssh2
>
> Can you login as "turbo" locally on pumba? It seems SSH doesn't find
> the password for turbo. I'd say either /etc/shadow is "strange" or PAM
> is misconfigured for SSH (/etc/pam.d/ssh).

Yes. And with a linux (Ubuntu Dapper) next to the windows machine...
All services work like a charm, just not from an old SecureCRT
client on windows...

So PAM is configured and working fine... I think the problem is that
sshd require 'keyboard-interactive' which the old client can't handle.
The new one works like a charm though. Unfortunatly it's so much
ugglier :). That's why I never upgraded that earlier. Now I don't
have a choice...


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Bug#407123: ITP: gpe-othello -- othello board game for GPE

[Neil Williams]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Neil Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

* Package name: gpe-othello
  Version : 0.2
  Upstream Author : "Joseph J. McCarthy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://gpe.linuxtogo.org/download/source/
* License : GPL
  Programming Lang: C
  Description : othello board game for GPE

 Single player othello board game for the GPE Palmtop Environment using
 a small screen and designed for handheld devices.

-- System Information:
Debian Release: 4.0
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (500, 'unstable')
Architecture: amd64 (x86_64)
Shell:  /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash
Kernel: Linux 2.6.16-2-amd64-k8
Locale: LANG=en_GB.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_GB.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)


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Bug#407124: ITP: gpe-go -- two player board game for GPE

[Neil Williams]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Neil Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

* Package name: gpe-go
  Version : 0.05
  Upstream Author : Luc Pionchon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://gpe.linuxtogo.org/download/source/
* License : GPL
  Programming Lang: C
  Description : two player board game for GPE

 Go is played by alternately placing black and white stones on the
 vacant intersections of a 19x19 rectilinear grid. A stone or a group of
 stones is captured and removed if it is tightly surrounded by stones of
 the opposing colour. The objective is to control a larger territory than
 the opponent by placing one's stones so they cannot be captured. The
 game ends and the score is counted when both players consecutively pass
 on a turn, indicating that neither side can increase its territory or
 reduce its opponent's; the game can also end by resignation.

-- System Information:
Debian Release: 4.0
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (500, 'unstable')
Architecture: amd64 (x86_64)
Shell:  /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash
Kernel: Linux 2.6.16-2-amd64-k8
Locale: LANG=en_GB.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_GB.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)


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Re: Bug#407054: ITP: noos -- text mode rss feed reader

[Charles Plessy]

Le Tue, Jan 16, 2007 at 11:50:04AM +0100, Arnaud Guiton a écrit :
> 
> Also, according to the French industrial property institute
> (http://www.icimarques.com), "NOOS" is a registered trademark in France and
> "noos" a registered trademark in Europe.
> 
> Of course someone should double check this because I'm not an IP specialist
> at all. I've also absolutely no idea on the impact this can have on the
> package.

Actually, I was simply concerned about having users complaining that
installing noos does not help them to have a working network, or finding
packages.debian.org when doing a google with debian+noos as keywords...

Have a nice day,

-- 
Charles Plessy
http://charles.plessy.org
Wako, Saitama, Japan


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Re: Bug#407054: ITP: noos -- text mode rss feed reader

[Nico Golde]

Hi,
* Arnaud Guiton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-01-16 11:53]:
> Nico wrote :
> 
> > > I just want to let you know that noos is also the name of a french
> > > cable internet provider, although I do no know if that would justify
> > > changing the package name to something longer...
> > 
> > http://www.noos.fr/offre/images/interface/logos/logo.jpg
> > Website says numericable noos. Anyone knows more?
> 
> According to http://www.noos.fr/corporate/societe_infoslegales.php the
> company "social denomination" (I'm not sure about the English translation)
> is just "NOOS"...
> 
> Also, according to the French industrial property institute
> (http://www.icimarques.com), "NOOS" is a registered trademark in France and
> "noos" a registered trademark in Europe.

Thanks for the information, upstream will rename the 
program.
Kind regards
Nico
-- 
Nico Golde - http://www.ngolde.de
JAB: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - GPG: 0x73647CFF
Forget about that mouse with 3/4/5 buttons,
gimme a keyboard with 103/104/105 keys!


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Re: Bug#407054: ITP: noos -- text mode rss feed reader

[Arnaud Guiton]

Nico wrote :

> > I just want to let you know that noos is also the name of a french
> > cable internet provider, although I do no know if that would justify
> > changing the package name to something longer...
> 
> http://www.noos.fr/offre/images/interface/logos/logo.jpg
> Website says numericable noos. Anyone knows more?

According to http://www.noos.fr/corporate/societe_infoslegales.php the
company "social denomination" (I'm not sure about the English translation)
is just "NOOS"...

Also, according to the French industrial property institute
(http://www.icimarques.com), "NOOS" is a registered trademark in France and
"noos" a registered trademark in Europe.

Of course someone should double check this because I'm not an IP specialist
at all. I've also absolutely no idea on the impact this can have on the
package.


Cheers,

-- 
Arnaud


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Re: Bugs in default GNOME etch?

[Loïc Minier]

Hi,

On Tue, Jan 16, 2007, Luca Capello wrote:
> first of all, I posted to d-d because I think the problem is not
> restricted to GNOME, but if I'm wrong, please continue this discussion
> to debian-gtk-gnome (which I cc:ed) and cc: me please (not needed for
> d-d, I read it).

 Indeed, not only GNOME is concerned, but bug reports are often
 reassigned when needs be, so next time you discover some issues you may
 want to fill them directly as you discover them in the BTS.  However,
 there's some room for discussion for the class of bugs you are
 reporting here.

> 1) some entries in the Debian menu lack the icon
> 2) the Debian menu requires xpm icons [2] and in fact only 4 packages
>have icons in the png format (ekiga, evince, gimp, gnomemeeting),
>but for some packages the xpm icon is really bad
> 3) there are different icons for the same entry in the GNOME
>Applications list and the Debian menu

 These issues are connected; what you describe is a general problem I
 have with the Debian menu: its XPM requirement and its duplication of
 the menu entries makes it a maintenance burden.

 I can imagine technical solutions to these problems, such as a) making
 XPM optional and automatically generating it when it's not available
 (yes, this might result in an ugly icon in some cases, but at least we
 will have an ugly icon vaguely ressembling the icon, and it might also
 result in nicer icons for PNG capable menu displays), b) using the
 .desktop files upstream provides to automatically register entries in
 the Debian menu (Note that the inverse process exists in menu-xdg :).

 Without this, Debian menu support in Debian packages will always lag
 behind as upstream updates its .desktop files, icons etc. or
 adds/remove programs.


 Another personal problem I have with the Debian menu is that it's
 slightly cluttered with entries useless to me, and it's also of no use
 along of the GNOME menu under GNOME.  This doesn't motivate me (and I
 expect other people) to fix it.

 So, basically, I think Debian menu support for GNOME apps is very low
 priority, and would have deeper problems to solve first.

> 4) evince doesn't appear by default on the GNOME Applications list (it
>happened on three different installations).  Maybe it's not the
>only one, but I cannot find any others.

 This is on purpose, the .desktop file has "NoDisplay=true" because it
 is expected that you never need to launch evince, but you simply open
 documents from nautilus or your browser and this spawns evince.  This
 is to not clutter the GNOME menu.

 (So, not a bug, a feature.)

> 5) some programs aren't present in the Debian menu:
>  alacarte, gnome-btdownload

 No idea about these.  You're welcome to file bugs if it makes sense to
 have them in the menu.

> 6) gnome-panel gives an .xsession-errors because "Unable to open
>desktop file epiphany.desktop for panel launcher".  This is normal
>as epiphany isn't installed by default, but I'd suggest to install
>the firefox.desktop instead.

 I did not see the discussion which lead to the choice of iceweasel as
 the default browser, and I think it would have been a worthwhile
 discussion to make publicly.

 This appears to be Ubuntu's choice as well, but I think the arguments
 brought up back then in the Ubuntu discussion don't apply anymore or
 don't apply to Debian (Epiphany is now as usable as IceWeasel is, and
 the name "Firefox" is not an argument anymore for Debian).

 I suppose what you're seeing is the result of a discrepancy between the
 default panel layout offered in the gnome-panel package and the
 installed packages.

 Perhaps this matter should be discussed on the debian-desktop@ list, at
 least I wish we would have a strong Debian Desktop decision-taking
 body so we could share ideas and goals and march in the same direction.

 Feel free to file a bug against either tasksel or gnome-panel depending
 on whether you would like to see iceweasel or epiphany on the default
 desktop.

> 7) why still Gnomemeeting by default instead of Ekiga (which AFAIK is
>the default VoIP client since GNOME 2.14)?

 This is fixed in the gnome-desktop-environment package, but did not
 migrate to testing yet, will happen in a couple of days.

> 8) the gnomebaker window doesn't start big enough to include all the
>buttons (this is clearly a bug, which strangely hasn't been
>reported yet).

 Completely unrelated, please see with the gnomebaker package's BTS /
 maintainer.

   Bye,
-- 
Loïc Minier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Re: Bugs in default GNOME etch?

[Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt]

Luca Capello <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 2) the Debian menu requires xpm icons [2] and in fact only 4 packages
>have icons in the png format (ekiga, evince, gimp, gnomemeeting),

To be fair, the .png icon referenced by the evince menu file doesn't
exist...

> 4) evince doesn't appear by default on the GNOME Applications list (it
>happened on three different installations).  Maybe it's not the
>only one, but I cannot find any others.

That is intentional, as evince is not intended to be invoked
directly. Other applications (such as browsers, nautilus) can and will
open files in evince when the user is trying to see a
PDF/PS/DjVu/DVI/... file. 

Marc
-- 
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2: objektorientiert
   Den Code habe ich von meinem Vorgaenger geerbt. (Kristian Köhntopp)


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Re: Bugs in default GNOME etch?

[Josselin Mouette]

Le mardi 16 janvier 2007 à 11:22 +0200, Eddy Petrișor a écrit :
> > Epiphany is not installed by default? If this is the case, I consider it
> > a very important bug in debian-installer.
> 
> Hmm, AFAIR, it wasn't two weeks ago, and I thought *this* was intentional and 
> was happy about it.

On our side, it is not. We have spent efforts in providing an integrated
environment, and this includes epiphany as the default browser, not a
half-assed browser designed for Windows and customised with GNOME
colors.

Until recently, d-i was installing both epiphany and firefox, the reason
being "Windows users know firefox". If epiphany doesn't get installed
anymore, this is making things even worse. And now that we have moved to
iceweasel, the Windows argument doesn't hold anymore.

-- 
 .''`.
: :' :  We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code.
`. `'   We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to
  `-our own. Resistance is futile.

Re: Bugs in default GNOME etch?

[Eddy Petrișor]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Josselin Mouette wrote:
>> 6) gnome-panel gives an .xsession-errors because "Unable to open
>>desktop file epiphany.desktop for panel launcher".  This is normal
>>as epiphany isn't installed by default, but I'd suggest to install
>>the firefox.desktop instead.
> 
> Epiphany is not installed by default? If this is the case, I consider it
> a very important bug in debian-installer.

Hmm, AFAIR, it wasn't two weeks ago, and I thought *this* was intentional and 
was happy about it.

> Looking at the gnome-desktop task, it installs gnome-desktop-environment
> and firefox-gnome-support. Besides, gnome-desktop-environment depends on
> epiphany-browser | gnome-www-browser, the latter being provided by
> firefox-gnome-support. In this case, I don't know what aptitude does,
> but if epiphany doesn't get installed in the end this is *wrong*. The
> GNOME desktop as a whole is configured to use epiphany, which has decent
> desktop integration, which firefox/iceweasel has not.
> 
> Can anyone in debian-boot confirm that the aptitude behaviour leads to
> epiphany not being installed? If this the case, what solution would you
> suggest? (The obvious solution of not installing the ugly
> firefox/iceweasel and confusing users with two browsers having been
> repeatedly refused by the d-i team.)

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Re: Bug#407054: ITP: noos -- text mode rss feed reader

[Nico Golde]

Hi,
* Charles Plessy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-01-16 10:18]:
> Le Mon, Jan 15, 2007 at 11:08:24PM +0100, Nico Golde a écrit :
> > Package: wnpp
> > Severity: wishlist
> > Owner: Nico Golde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > 
> > * Package name: noos
> 
> I just want to let you know that noos is also the name of a french
> cable internet provider, although I do no know if that would justify
> changing the package name to something longer...

http://www.noos.fr/offre/images/interface/logos/logo.jpg
Website says numericable noos. Anyone knows more?
Kind regards
Nico
-- 
Nico Golde - http://www.ngolde.de
JAB: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - GPG: 0x73647CFF
Forget about that mouse with 3/4/5 buttons,
gimme a keyboard with 103/104/105 keys!


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Re: Bugs in default GNOME etch?

[Josselin Mouette]

Le mardi 16 janvier 2007 à 02:46 +0100, Luca Capello a écrit :
>Is there a practical reason for requesting xpm icons?  No need to
>explain if an answer already exists, but I cannot find it.

This is because some menu systems don't understand other formats.

> 4) evince doesn't appear by default on the GNOME Applications list (it
>happened on three different installations).  Maybe it's not the
>only one, but I cannot find any others.

IIRC this is intentional, as evince is a viewer that should only invoked
from programs that have something to view (nautilus, epiphany,
evolution...)

> 6) gnome-panel gives an .xsession-errors because "Unable to open
>desktop file epiphany.desktop for panel launcher".  This is normal
>as epiphany isn't installed by default, but I'd suggest to install
>the firefox.desktop instead.

Epiphany is not installed by default? If this is the case, I consider it
a very important bug in debian-installer.

Looking at the gnome-desktop task, it installs gnome-desktop-environment
and firefox-gnome-support. Besides, gnome-desktop-environment depends on
epiphany-browser | gnome-www-browser, the latter being provided by
firefox-gnome-support. In this case, I don't know what aptitude does,
but if epiphany doesn't get installed in the end this is *wrong*. The
GNOME desktop as a whole is configured to use epiphany, which has decent
desktop integration, which firefox/iceweasel has not.

Can anyone in debian-boot confirm that the aptitude behaviour leads to
epiphany not being installed? If this the case, what solution would you
suggest? (The obvious solution of not installing the ugly
firefox/iceweasel and confusing users with two browsers having been
repeatedly refused by the d-i team.)

> 7) why still Gnomemeeting by default instead of Ekiga (which AFAIK is
>the default VoIP client since GNOME 2.14)?

This should be fixed in meta-gnome2 1:2.14.3.5.

-- 
 .''`.
: :' :  We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code.
`. `'   We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to
  `-our own. Resistance is futile.

Bug#407104: ITP: libiptcdata -- Library to parse IPTC metadata

[Ian Wienand]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Ian Wienand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

* Package name: libiptcdata
  Version : 0.21
  Upstream Author : David Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://libiptcdata.sf.net/
  License : LGPL
  Programming Lang: C
  Description : Library to parse IPTC metadata

libiptcdata is a library for manipulating the International Press
Telecommunications Council (IPTC) metadata stored within multimedia
files such as images. The library provides routines for parsing,
viewing, modifying, and saving this metadata.

-- System Information:
Debian Release: 4.0
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (500, 'unstable'), (1, 'experimental')
Architecture: i386 (i686)
Shell:  /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash
Kernel: Linux 2.6.18
Locale: LANG=en_AU, LC_CTYPE=en_AU (charmap=ISO-8859-1)


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Re: Upgrade from woody to sarge - ssh strangeness

[Lionel Elie Mamane]

On Tue, Jan 16, 2007 at 08:31:12AM +0100, Turbo Fredriksson wrote:
> Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

>> If memory serves, you need to edit /etc/ssh/sshd_config, uncomment
>> the "PasswordAuthentication yes" line, and reload ssh.

> With that, I only get:

> Jan 16 08:28:01 pumba sshd[24998]: Failed password for turbo from 
>  port 1956 ssh2
> Jan 16 08:28:13 pumba sshd[25003]: error: Could not get shadow information 
> for turbo
> Jan 16 08:28:13 pumba sshd[25003]: Failed password for turbo from 
>  port 1957 ssh2

Can you login as "turbo" locally on pumba? It seems SSH doesn't find
the password for turbo. I'd say either /etc/shadow is "strange" or PAM
is misconfigured for SSH (/etc/pam.d/ssh).

-- 
Lionel


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