Re: Proposed new release goal: Dependency/file list predictability

[Enrico Zini]

On Fri, Jun 22, 2007 at 11:25:44PM +0100, Enrico Zini wrote:

>  - compute a "delicateness" index of a package by summing the SAT
>temperature of all packages that depend on it, and then give special
>attention to the most "delicate" packages to see RC bugs, maintainer
>activity and so on.  I'm working on creating a sample data, but I'll
>be away for the week-end.

I managed to hack it together just in time: a sample of the 50 most
'delicate' packages is in:

  http://people.debian.org/~enrico/2007-06/sample-reverse-sat.txt


Ciao,

Enrico

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binNUMUs - all-depends-any

[Gerrit Pape]

Hi, I know that the git-core package doesn't support binNMUs, and AFAIK
there's no convenient way to change that, as it builds arch: all package
that depend on the specific arch: any package.

 http://bugs.debian.org/423041

Loosening the dependencies as suggested in http://wiki.debian.org/binNMU
isn't a good solution, as it can lead to

 http://bugs.debian.org/425494

Can I register the package as non-binNMUable anywhere?, it needs a
sourceful upload anyway.

 http://bugs.debian.org/430128

Thanks, Gerrit.


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Re: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Package

[Sebastiaan Couwenberg]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Charles Plessy wrote:
>   Distribution of this software is prohibited. It may only be 
>   obtained by downloading from Stanford's web site
>   (http://folding.stanford.edu and pages linked therein).
> 
> I guess that in that case, there would be a link from the Stanford site to
> packages.debian.org for instance.

There is a FreeBSD packages which installs the [EMAIL PROTECTED] client by 
downloading
the FAH504-Linux.exe binary from the Stanford website. The Gentoo ebuild
works very similar and has been around for a long time.

All these installers have been silently approved by the project as they
don't violate the EULA.

Nick Lewycky wrote a Debian package to install the [EMAIL PROTECTED] client on 
Debian,
fahclient-installer, see:
http://bugs.debian.org/261257
http://lists.debian.org/debian-mentors/2004/07/msg00338.html

That specific code is no longer available online AFAIK, but I still have
a copy which I used to add support for multiple CPUs. I never finished
this, due to lack of time, but I can give you the code if you (Zachary
Palmer) like.

> Do they frequently upgrade ? How long can an old client connect ? In that
> case, packaging would be commiting yourself to follow the upgrades
> closely. I do not think that it would help our users if the Debian package
> would periodically provide a binary which is not allowed to connect.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] doesn't update its client regularly. The release cycle is 
possibly
slower than Debian Stable. There has been talk of v6 for several years
now, and I think that version just recently went into alpha testing if
it made it that far (I'm no longer a beta tester with early access to
project info, so I can't verify that).

The v4 [EMAIL PROTECTED] client still works eventhough v5 has been out for a 
long
time. Its usefulness is somewhat reduced because there are no more
deadlineless WUs handed out by the project, but it still works. I don't
think this is a real problem.

> Maybe the Debian-Med packaging team could provide you a safety net by
> co-maintaining the package and hosting the /debian dir in our SVN repo, so
> that you can take holidays without coming back with an obsolete package
> and angry users. However, would the package not be actively followed by a
> dedicated person, it would be better removed (or not packaged at that
> point)

I'm also willing to help co-maintain a Debian package for [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm
currently the upstream maintainer of qd since Dick Howell passed away,
which Claudio Moratti packaged as part of kfolding. Maybe he's
interested too?

> Lastly, I am not sure that closed-sourceness is the best strategy against
> cheating. I guess that the expertise area of [EMAIL PROTECTED] is structural
> biology, wheras the expertise of cheaters is... well... cheating.

Guaranteeing the integrity of the research is indeed the primary reason
to keep the [EMAIL PROTECTED] client and cores closed-source. Even though they 
are
build with GPL components like Gromacs. But "[EMAIL PROTECTED] has been
granted a non-commercial, non-GPL license for Gromacs, so [they] are not
required to release [the] source."
http://folding.stanford.edu/gromacs.html

Regards,

Bas

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Re: binNUMUs - all-depends-any

[Russ Allbery]

Gerrit Pape <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Hi, I know that the git-core package doesn't support binNMUs, and AFAIK
> there's no convenient way to change that, as it builds arch: all package
> that depend on the specific arch: any package.

>  http://bugs.debian.org/423041

> Loosening the dependencies as suggested in http://wiki.debian.org/binNMU
> isn't a good solution, as it can lead to

>  http://bugs.debian.org/425494

The recommendation for cases like this is to use a dependency like:

git-core (>= 1:1.5.2.2-1), git-core (<< 1:1.5.2.2-2~)

or a bit looser if the Debian revision won't matter:

git-core (>= 1:1.5.2.2), git-core (<< 1:1.5.2.3~)

-- 
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Re: binNUMUs - all-depends-any

[Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt]

Gerrit Pape <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Hi, I know that the git-core package doesn't support binNMUs, and AFAIK
> there's no convenient way to change that, as it builds arch: all package
> that depend on the specific arch: any package.
>
>  http://bugs.debian.org/423041
>
> Loosening the dependencies as suggested in http://wiki.debian.org/binNMU
> isn't a good solution, as it can lead to
>
>  http://bugs.debian.org/425494

Is there a reason why a set of dependencies that only allow package
versions based on the same upstream version to be installed wouldn't
work? [1]

Marc

Footnotes: 
[1]  For a package foo-bar, this would mean that deps should be like
 foo-bar (>= 1.2.3), foo-bar (<< 1.2.4~) (or something similiar)
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Re: transition of packages into testing

[Steve Langasek]

On Thu, Jun 21, 2007 at 05:01:20PM -0400, Kamaraju S Kusumanchi wrote:
> Thanks for the reply. After posting the question, to my embarrassment, I
> found out that this criterion is explained in developers-reference. I have
> two other related questions. The page shows that it is not yet built for
> hppa and ia64. However the last builds on ia64 is on Apr 18, and on hppa is
> on May 21.

If you are looking at 'last builds', you should also be looking at the
current wanna-build status on , which shows
where the package is on each architecture vis-à-vis the buildds.

I've given back hppa after the random build failure, so nothing to see
there; on ia64 though, the package has a legitimate dep-wait on
guile-1.8-dev, a package that is not yet available on this architecture.

> 1) How can I request for a new build on ia64? or will it happen
> automatically?

[EMAIL PROTECTED], in general.

-- 
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Debian Developer   to set it on, and I can move the world.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.debian.org/

Re: transition of packages into testing

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Fri, Jun 22, 2007 at 01:58:56AM +0300, Lars Wirzenius wrote:
> On to, 2007-06-21 at 17:01 -0400, Kamaraju S Kusumanchi wrote:
> > 1) How can I request for a new build on ia64? or will it happen
> > automatically?
> 
> This is outside my area of expertese, but I would assume that the
> buildds don't automatically re-try a failed build.

That depends on the exact type of failure, really. There are a number of
failures that will lead to an automatic retry (if the buildd detects
that the problem is due to a local problem on the buildd itself, for
example), and there are a number of failures that will likely lead to a
dep-wait.

See http://www.debian.org/devel/buildd/wanna-build-states for a more
thorough explanation.

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Re: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Package

[Magnus Holmgren]

Sebastiaan Couwenberg wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] doesn't update its client regularly. The release cycle is 
> possibly
> slower than Debian Stable. There has been talk of v6 for several years
> now, and I think that version just recently went into alpha testing if
> it made it that far (I'm no longer a beta tester with early access to
> project info, so I can't verify that).
> 
> The v4 [EMAIL PROTECTED] client still works eventhough v5 has been out for a 
> long
> time. Its usefulness is somewhat reduced because there are no more
> deadlineless WUs handed out by the project, but it still works. I don't
> think this is a real problem.

Has there been any talk about moving to the BOINC infrastructure?

>> Lastly, I am not sure that closed-sourceness is the best strategy against
>> cheating. I guess that the expertise area of [EMAIL PROTECTED] is structural
>> biology, wheras the expertise of cheaters is... well... cheating.
> 
> Guaranteeing the integrity of the research is indeed the primary reason
> to keep the [EMAIL PROTECTED] client and cores closed-source. Even though 
> they are
> build with GPL components like Gromacs. But "[EMAIL PROTECTED] has been
> granted a non-commercial, non-GPL license for Gromacs, so [they] are not
> required to release [the] source."
> http://folding.stanford.edu/gromacs.html

But the only way to be sure that the individual users don't cheat would
be to require Treacherous Computing. Instead, BOINC-powered projects
rely on handing out several copies of each work unit and checking that
the reported results match. Perhaps [EMAIL PROTECTED] does this as well.

I don't think that all BOINC projects release source, but [EMAIL PROTECTED] code
is free (as is the BOINC client itself), for example, and in that case
it's possible to package an optimized version. Otherwise the BOINC
client automatically downloads the right executable.

-- 
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Bug#430206: ITP: iodine -- tool for tunneling IPv4 data through a DNS server

[gregor herrmann]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: gregor herrmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


* Package name: iodine
  Version : 0.4.0
  Upstream Author : Bjorn Andersson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Erik Ekman 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://code.kryo.se/iodine
* License : BSD-like
  Programming Lang: C
  Description : tool for tunneling IPv4 data through a DNS server

 This is a piece of software that lets you tunnel IPv4 data through a
 DNS server. This can be usable in different situations where
 internet access is firewalled, but DNS queries are allowed.

gregor


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Re: Proposed new release goal: Dependency/file list predictability

[Pierre Habouzit]

On Sat, Jun 23, 2007 at 09:35:25AM +0100, Enrico Zini wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 22, 2007 at 11:25:44PM +0100, Enrico Zini wrote:
> 
> >  - compute a "delicateness" index of a package by summing the SAT
> >temperature of all packages that depend on it, and then give special
> >attention to the most "delicate" packages to see RC bugs, maintainer
> >activity and so on.  I'm working on creating a sample data, but I'll
> >be away for the week-end.
> 
> I managed to hack it together just in time: a sample of the 50 most
> 'delicate' packages is in:
> 
>   http://people.debian.org/~enrico/2007-06/sample-reverse-sat.txt

  wow, this looks pretty accurate, though adduser seems misplaced in
that list. You should remove arch:all packages, they are seldomly a
concern for migrations.

-- 
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··O[EMAIL PROTECTED]
OOOhttp://www.madism.org


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Re: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Package

[Guilherme de S. Pastore]

Em Sáb, 2007-06-23 às 12:59 +0100, Chris Lamb escreveu:
> Charles Plessy wrote:
> 
> > as said in another mail, [EMAIL PROTECTED] is definitely non-free. Hovever,
> > if Debian would become an "authorized distributor", the licence would be
> > suitable for non-free.
> 
> What about Debian derivatives?

They would not, but that is not a problem for non-free.

--
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Package

[Chris Lamb]

Charles Plessy wrote:

> as said in another mail, [EMAIL PROTECTED] is definitely non-free. Hovever,
> if Debian would become an "authorized distributor", the licence would be
> suitable for non-free.

What about Debian derivatives?

/Lamby

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Re: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Package

[Sebastiaan Couwenberg]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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Magnus Holmgren wrote:
> Sebastiaan Couwenberg wrote:
> Has there been any talk about moving to the BOINC infrastructure?

There used to be work on a BOINC [EMAIL PROTECTED] client, but this work has 
stopped
due to personnel turnover.

See:
http://fahwiki.net/index.php/Alternative_FAH_Platforms#BOINC
http://folding.stanford.edu/FAQ-highperformance.html

> But the only way to be sure that the individual users don't cheat would
> be to require Treacherous Computing. Instead, BOINC-powered projects
> rely on handing out several copies of each work unit and checking that
> the reported results match. Perhaps [EMAIL PROTECTED] does this as well.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] doesn't duplicate work, each WU is only assigned once by 
default. If
a WU has not been returned when the Preferred Deadline is reached, then
the WU is assigned to another client.

Some newer WUs are duplicate work in a sense, they verify the results of
the new SMP client & core on single CPU/core machines.

Each assigned WU is verified at upload, the information used in this
verification is stored in the queue.dat (which you can dump with qd).

See:
http://linuxminded.xs4all.nl/software/qd-tools/documentation/queue.dat-layout/queue-assignment-info-present.html

Regards,

Bas

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Re: Bug#430206: ITP: iodine -- tool for tunneling IPv4 data through a DNS server

[Tollef Fog Heen]

* Hamish Moffatt 

| How is iodine different from nstx?

- Works on !i386
- Source code that does not make me cry and run away.

It's slightly less performant (in my experience), but I still much
prefer it.

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Re: Bug#430206: ITP: iodine -- tool for tunneling IPv4 data through a DNS server

[Josselin Mouette]

Le samedi 23 juin 2007 à 13:01 +0200, gregor herrmann a écrit :
>   Description : tool for tunneling IPv4 data through a DNS server
> 
>  This is a piece of software that lets you tunnel IPv4 data through a
>  DNS server. This can be usable in different situations where
>  internet access is firewalled, but DNS queries are allowed.

How does it compare to nstx ?

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Re: Bug#430206: ITP: iodine -- tool for tunneling IPv4 data through a DNS server

[Hamish Moffatt]

On Sat, Jun 23, 2007 at 01:01:40PM +0200, gregor herrmann wrote:
> * Package name: iodine
>   Version : 0.4.0
>   Upstream Author : Bjorn Andersson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Erik Ekman 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> * URL : http://code.kryo.se/iodine
> * License : BSD-like
>   Programming Lang: C
>   Description : tool for tunneling IPv4 data through a DNS server
> 
>  This is a piece of software that lets you tunnel IPv4 data through a
>  DNS server. This can be usable in different situations where
>  internet access is firewalled, but DNS queries are allowed.

Hi Gregor,

How is iodine different from nstx?

Hamish
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Bug#430335: ITP: nsd3 -- authoritative name domain server

[Pierre Habouzit]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Pierre Habouzit <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

* Package name: nsd3
  Version : x.y.z
  Upstream Author : NLnet Labs
* URL : http://www.nlnetlabs.nl/nsd/
* License : Mostly BSD with some bits in GPLv2
  Programming Lang: C
  Description : authoritative name domain server
   NSD3 is an fast, authoritative only, high performance, simple
   and open source name server.
   .
   NSD was primarily developed by NLnet Labs on request from and close
   cooperation with RIPE NCC, as an alternative name server software to be
   run on the root name server RIPE NCC operates.


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Re: I don't understand Debian

[Alex Queiroz]

Hallo,

On 6/22/07, Sam Leon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


There is nothing wrong with debian and if your are talking about windows
then you are not even used to the "linux way"



 Wow, I've not seen a moronic argument like this in a while.

--
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http://www.ventonegro.org/


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Re: Bug#430206: ITP: iodine -- tool for tunneling IPv4 data through a DNS server

[gregor herrmann]

On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 14:57:01 +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote:

> >   Description : tool for tunneling IPv4 data through a DNS server
> How does it compare to nstx ?


On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 23:05:18 +1000, Hamish Moffatt wrote:

> How is iodine different from nstx?

Thanks for your questions.

I've put an additional paragraph trying to explain the difference in
the bugreport: http://bugs.debian.org/430206 

Please check if this answers your questions.

Cheers,
gregor
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Re: binNUMUs - all-depends-any

[Gerrit Pape]

On Sat, Jun 23, 2007 at 11:31:49AM +0200, Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt wrote:
> Gerrit Pape <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > Hi, I know that the git-core package doesn't support binNMUs, and AFAIK
> > there's no convenient way to change that, as it builds arch: all package
> > that depend on the specific arch: any package.
> >
> >  http://bugs.debian.org/423041
> >
> > Loosening the dependencies as suggested in http://wiki.debian.org/binNMU
> > isn't a good solution, as it can lead to
> >
> >  http://bugs.debian.org/425494
> 
> Is there a reason why a set of dependencies that only allow package
> versions based on the same upstream version to be installed wouldn't
> work? [1]

> [1]  For a package foo-bar, this would mean that deps should be like
>  foo-bar (>= 1.2.3), foo-bar (<< 1.2.4~) (or something similiar)

That'd work.  I was hoping, with the increased usage of binNMUs, there's
something more convenient than changing debian/control by hand.  I'll
now go with
 Depends: git-core (>> ${source:Upstream-Version}, git-core (<<
 ${source:Upstream-Version}-.)
I think.

Regards, Gerrit.


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Re: Official presentation template

[Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña]

On Sat, Jun 23, 2007 at 03:41:19PM +0100, Mario Iseli wrote:
> in a few weeks I will go to give a little talk about Debian packaging
> on a swiss CCC event. Having presentations and tell the people
> anything about a special Debian topic is a common task for many people
> on this list, I think. Now my question: Is there an official template
> for Debian related presentations which is open to use? If not, are
> there maybe any volunteers which would create one? The problem is that
> I'm not very creative in relation to such things and you would safe me
> a lot of time.

There's no "official" template, but past presentations, like the ones
available at http://www.debian.org/events/talks might be useful for you as
a starting point to have your own template.

Regards

Javier

PS: There's many talks missing from that page, but people don't seem to be
inclined to provide information to -www about their talks so that they can
get linked to.


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Re: Bug#430266: ldbl128 transition for alpha, powerpc, sparc, s390

[Steve M. Robbins]

On Sat, Jun 23, 2007 at 03:48:06PM +0200, Matthias Klose wrote:
 
> Discussed in http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2007/05/msg01173.html

There's not a lot of discussion there -- just an announcement really.
 
> With glibc-2.5 and gcc-4.1.2 (and gcc-4.2), the 'long double'
> data type did change from a 64bit representation to a 128bit
> representation on alpha, powerpc, sparc, s390. 

The referenced message, above, is over three weeks old.  Is that
when the change went in?  Does that mean any package on the list
built since then is buggy?


> To allow partial upgrades of packages, we will need to rename all
> packages holding libraries with the long double data type in their
> API.

So what upgrades are we worried about?  

If packages built in the last three weeks are buggy, they may already
be in "testing".  So we're not to worry about upgrades from testing
versions?

If we're only worried about upgrades from the version in stable, then
we don't need to rename a package that has never been in stable,
correct?


> Both libc and libstdc++ do not need to be renamed, because they
> support both representations.  We rename the library packages on all
> architectures to avoid name mismatches between architectures (you
> can avoid the renaming by supporting both datatype representations
> in the library as done in glibc and libstdc++, but unless a library
> is prepared for that, it does not seem to be worth the effort).

How is it that libc and libstdc++ support both representations?  How
would another library support both?

Thanks,
-Steve


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Official presentation template

[Mario Iseli]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hello,

in a few weeks I will go to give a little talk about Debian packaging
on a swiss CCC event. Having presentations and tell the people
anything about a special Debian topic is a common task for many people
on this list, I think. Now my question: Is there an official template
for Debian related presentations which is open to use? If not, are
there maybe any volunteers which would create one? The problem is that
I'm not very creative in relation to such things and you would safe me
a lot of time.

Thank you and regards,
Mario
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Bug#430339: ITP: ttf-konatu -- TrueType Font originally for BeOS

[Hideki Yamane (Debian-JP)]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: "Hideki Yamane (Debian-JP)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

* Package name: ttf-konatu
  Version : 20
  Upstream Author : Mitiya Masuda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://www.masuseki.com/rnote.php?u=be/konatu.htm
* License : Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 License
  Description : TrueType Font originally for BeOS

   Konatu is created as BeOS(ZETA) bitmap font (Be Bitmap Font), and
   also made as TrueType font.
   .
   You can see screenshots in author's website.


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Re: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Package

[Josselin Mouette]

Le vendredi 22 juin 2007 à 14:20 -0400, Zachary Palmer a écrit :
> This software package has pretty much the best reason for 
> being closed source that I've encountered; they want to prevent 
> falsified results from damaging the research.

This is probably one of the worst excuses I could find. The software
being closed source doesn't prevent *AT ALL* any kind falsification.
Relying on such a blatantly wrong security scheme is the best way to
discover falsification too late.

(In fact, the reason why it works is that nobody really *wants* to
falsify the results; at least not enough to take the time it requires to
do it.)

-- 
 .''`.
: :' :  We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code.
`. `'   We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to
  `-our own. Resistance is futile.


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re: ldbl128 transition for alpha, powerpc, sparc, s390

[Ron]

Hi,

Looking at my packages that doko flagged for this transition,
I see at least one place where on some platforms (though not
for any Debian arch) a long double may be passed to an api
function as a vararg.

If there are other such packages they may not have been caught
by his scan for 'long *double'.  Finding them automatically
could be an interesting exercise for some lucky reader ...

There probably aren't many that fit that description, but there
may be a couple so I figured its worth giving people a head-up
about.

Cheers,
Ron


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Re: Official presentation template

[Sebastian Harl]

Hi,

On Sat, Jun 23, 2007 at 03:41:19PM +0100, Mario Iseli wrote:
> Now my question: Is there an official template
> for Debian related presentations which is open to use? If not, are
> there maybe any volunteers which would create one? The problem is that
> I'm not very creative in relation to such things and you would safe me
> a lot of time.

Afaik, there is no such thing. However, there has been a short discussion on
this topic during Debconf [1] and Andreas Tille collected some ideas about a
design. You might want to contact him.

Cheers,
Sebastian

[1] https://penta.debconf.org/~joerg/events/34.en.html
-- 
Sebastian "tokkee" Harl
GnuPG-ID: 0x8501C7FC
http://tokkee.org/



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Re: Proposed new release goal: Dependency/file list predictability

[Bill Allombert]

On Fri, Jun 22, 2007 at 09:37:39PM +0200, Lucas Nussbaum wrote:
> > > af:
> > >  files list differ:
> > > -./usr/lib/menu
> > > -./usr/lib/menu/af
> > > +./usr/share/menu
> > > +./usr/share/menu/af
> > 
> > Non-ancient debhelper.
>  
> Still, what do we want to do about those?

This should be fixed by rebuilding af. However, since we are moving
to a new menu structure, the menu file will need to be updated[1], so
the packages will need a new sourceful upload anyway.

Cheers,
-- 
Bill. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Imagine a large red swirl here.


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