Re: Consistent formating long descriptions as input data

[Andreas Tille]

On Mon, 20 Apr 2009, Manoj Srivastava wrote:


   Frankly, a poll about micromanaging marks for each level of
unordered list does seem to be technical. It is also an implementation
detail, and invents our own convention,


I disagree.


and options 1 & 2 would cause
many more packages to be changed than would just adopting markdown or
ReST.


Please specify what you mean by "adopting markdown or ReST" more
precisely.


The fact that we need more packages changed for options 1 & 2
makes them technically inferior.


Best practices do not imply a *need* to change anything.


   Is there anyone other than yourself who is actually unhappy
about markdown/ReST?


Please remind me at which point I was unhappy about markdown/ReST.
I do not really remember that I was.  I just try to enable better
input for any postprocessing.


   And should we have similar silly polls (which I have no
intention of promoting by voting in them) for emhpasis? for specifying
bold/italic text? For ordered lists? for a myriad of other useful
markup already familiar to people who know markdown and ReST?


Manoj, please do not give me the feeling that my English is that bad
that I was unable to explain my point in my last mail[1].  If you would
confirm that you missunderstand me intentionally I would gain back
a small amount of trust in my English teacher.


   Also, given that there are more output formats than html
available for markdown/ReST is another plus point; we might want other
output formats for Descriptions than plain ol' html.


Hmmm, this paragraph confuses me even more.  Going back, reading my
mails again, wondering why I spend so much time in explaining, ...

Kind regards

   Andreas.


[1] http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2009/04/msg00713.html

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Bug#524948: ITP: liblastfm -- Last.fm web services library

[John Stamp]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: John Stamp 


* Package name: liblastfm
  Version : 0.2.1
  Upstream Author : Max Howell 
* URL : http://github.com/mxcl/liblastfm/tree/master
* License : GPL2+
  Programming Lang: C++
  Description : Last.fm web services library

liblastfm is Last.fm's library for using their web services such as
scrobbling, fingerprinting tracks, and requesting audio streams.



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Re: Bug#524896: general: Home directory pollution

[Manoj Srivastava]

On Mon, Apr 20 2009, Roger Leigh wrote:


> I was horrified to discover in the last few weeks that Emacs now
> also defaults to ~/Documents when you start it up, making you
> delete the useless Documents before you can actually type in
> something useful.  Is this part of some desktop conspiracy to force
> us to use these Capitalised "folder" names?!

Umm, what? I use Emacs from Git, and I have never seen that
 directory. Indeed, grepping through the source. the only place that
 appears is in rmail-mime-attachment-dirs-alist -- have I found the only
 other person in the world apart from RMS who uses rmail?

manoj
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Re: Consistent formating long descriptions as input data

[Manoj Srivastava]

On Mon, Apr 20 2009, Andreas Tille wrote:

> Hi,
>
> as promissed in the overlongish thread [1] I would like to
> sort out the details how we should enhance the consistency and
> parseability of our long descriptions in a poll.  I agree that
> it is not a good idea to solve technical issues in a poll.
> But this is not about a technical issue.  There is a fact that
> we need a defined structure (technical issue 1) to be able
> to parse the long descriptions (whatever library or self invented
> code will be used - technical issue 2).  But the details how
> the structure should look like is more or less an aesthetical
> question (because several tools print the long descriptions
> in verbose mode) and so the question is about this aesthetics.
> If you want to discuss the technical issues please read all mails
> of the thread and continue discussing this (preferably with a
> new subject).
>
> Here is the URL of the poll:
>
>http://doodle.com/2bp8rrh3i35sr4s7
>

Frankly, a poll about micromanaging marks for each level of
 unordered list does seem to be technical. It is also an implementation
 detail, and invents our own convention, and options 1 & 2 would cause
 many more packages to be changed than would just adopting markdown or
 ReST. The fact that we need more packages changed for options 1 & 2
 makes them technically inferior.

Is there anyone other than yourself who is actually unhappy
 about markdown/ReST?

And should we have similar silly polls (which I have no
 intention of promoting by voting in them) for emhpasis? for specifying
 bold/italic text? For ordered lists? for a myriad of other useful
 markup already familiar to people who know markdown and ReST?

Also, given that there are more output formats than html
 available for markdown/ReST is another plus point; we might want other
 output formats for Descriptions than plain ol' html.

manoj
-- 
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Manoj Srivastava    
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Re: RFA: acpi-support -- glue layer for translating laptop buttons, plus legacy suspend support

[Manoj Srivastava]

On Mon, Apr 20 2009, Josselin Mouette wrote:

> Le lundi 20 avril 2009 à 10:26 +0200, Bjørn Mork a écrit :
>> I prefer non-broken defaults. hal defaults are broken.  No, the keys are
>> not always mapped to  standard XF86* names.  They are sometimes mapped
>> into the blue.
>> 
>> See e.g.  bug #504643, which explains my disappearing keys. Finding it
>> took some time, since stupid me thought "regrep KEY_RADIO /usr/share/hal".
>> would reveal any hal related problems.
>
> So, the HAL defaults are broken *for one keyboard model*. Geez, without
> HAL your function keys wouldn’t actually work at all for many models
> without jumping through incredible hoops or installing specific
> software. I can’t believe you think this should be encouraged.

Well, not just one keyboard model,  to be fait. I lost my arrow
 keys, and the right alt, meta, and right control, home/end page
 up/down, and some keypad keys all got scrambled.

> There are bugs? Fine, let’s fix them.

I'll be happy to help.

manoj
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your God?
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Re: RFA: acpi-support -- glue layer for translating laptop buttons, plus legacy suspend support

[Josselin Mouette]

Le lundi 20 avril 2009 à 22:13 +0200, Bjørn Mork a écrit :
> > So, the HAL defaults are broken *for one keyboard model*.
> 
> Make that "for every keyboard I'm using". Why would the number of
> working keyboards matter?  If you care about such statistics you should
> probably use Windows.  It works for far more people than Debian does.

Bullshit. Windows doesn’t support any single model of multimedia
keyboard out of the box. You need specific drivers for each of them.

> > Geez, without
> > HAL your function keys wouldn’t actually work at all 
> 
> Well, it did work with acpid as long as the kernel supported
> /proc/acpi/event.  No need for hal at all those days.

It did because you were one of the lucky ones owning a model for which
these keys directly sent ACPI events. With HAL, this works for a much
larger number of models.

> > for many models
> > without jumping through incredible hoops or installing specific
> > software. I can’t believe you think this should be encouraged.
> 
> You still need the specific software to actually do something useful in
> response to these keys.  It's not like they are supposed to generate
> some character in your terminal.  They are supposed to trigger some
> action, like e.g. switching video outputs or enabling bluetooth.
> 
> AFAIK, you won't get around the specific software requirement. 

Yes you will. When a key triggers stopping the wifi signal, it needs the
same action whether your laptop is a Sonovo or a Toshidell. The same
holds for most if not all the multimedia keys. Using the same
abstraction layer for all of them allows to put the same software behind
all of them to accomplish the same task.

> *I'm* not going to trust hal. Everyone else should make their own
>  decision. 

If it’s just your decision, why are you bitching on this list?

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Re: Bug#524896: general: Home directory pollution

[Ken Bloom]

On Mon, 2009-04-20 at 19:48 +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> Le lundi 20 avril 2009 à 19:13 +0200, Michael Biebl a écrit :
> > > Something that I ran this morning decided to pollute my home directory
> > > creating the following directories:
> > >  Desktop/
> > >  Documents/
> > >  Download/
> > >  Music/
> > >  Pictures/
> > >  Public/
> > >  Templates/
> > >  Videos/
> > > 
> > > I haven't figured out what it is yet, but Debian needs to be more
> > > respectful of the way I organize my home directory (which doesn't use
> > > any of these) and not create any of these automatically.
> > > 
> > > If anyone knows what package(s) are responsible for this, please clone
> > > or reassign this bug to those packages.
> > 
> > The package responsible for creating those directories is xdg-users-dirs.
> 
> I’m not completely sure. Nautilus seems able to create them without
> xdg-user-dirs installed (which also means we could drop the Recommends).
> 
> Anyway, these are standard directories defined by the freedesktop.org
> specification. The document also describes how to override the
> locations, so I don’t think it’s doing anything wrong.

Bug #487842 is a similar bug, and relates to circumstances under which
iceweasel/firefox creates the ~/Desktop directory.

xdg-user-dirs might possibly create the whole list of directories, but
it would seem to want to do so on login. I'm seeing these directories
recreated more intermittently than that, which means something else is
triggering the creation. 

--Ken


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Consistent formating long descriptions as input data (Was: RFC: Better formatting for long descriptions)

[Andreas Tille]

Hi,

as promissed in the overlongish thread [1] I would like to
sort out the details how we should enhance the consistency and
parseability of our long descriptions in a poll.  I agree that
it is not a good idea to solve technical issues in a poll.
But this is not about a technical issue.  There is a fact that
we need a defined structure (technical issue 1) to be able
to parse the long descriptions (whatever library or self invented
code will be used - technical issue 2).  But the details how
the structure should look like is more or less an aesthetical
question (because several tools print the long descriptions
in verbose mode) and so the question is about this aesthetics.
If you want to discuss the technical issues please read all mails
of the thread and continue discussing this (preferably with a
new subject).

Here is the URL of the poll:

   http://doodle.com/2bp8rrh3i35sr4s7

Kind regards

Andreas.

On Thu, 16 Apr 2009, Andreas Tille wrote:


If you make a suggestion please answer the following question:

 A. Does the suggestion enable parsing logical structures like
two level itemize lists?
(This is what I want to approach and what is IMHO needed)
 B. Does the suggestion enable keeping the majority of description
untouched and enables keeping the currently existing tools?
(This is important to gain any acceptance)

If one of the question above is answered with "no" please mention
whether you are volunteering to do the work which is needed to
port the existing stuff to match your suggestion.

Currently I would feed the poll with 4 suggestions:

 0. Keep anything as unstructured as it is.
Answer to A: no
Answer to B: yes

 1. Use '*' for first order item lists, '-' for second order
item lists and use '  ' (exactly two spaces) before the
'*' and '' (exactly four spaces) before the '-'. After
'*' and '-' exactly one space should be used and continued
lines should start in the same column as the text starts
above.
Answer to A: yes
Answer to B: yes

 2. Use '*' for first order item lists, '-' for second order
item lists.  Spacing does not matter as long as continued
lines will start in the same column as the text above.
Answer to A: yes
Answer to B: yes

 3. Use any character of ('*', '-', '+') to start a list and
mark the level of the list by strictly following spacing
rules and use '  ' (exactly two spaces) before the selected
character for starting first order list and '' (exactly
four spaces) before the character for starting second order
list. After the marker symbold exactly one space should be
used and continued lines should start in the same column as
the text starts above.
Answer to A: yes
Answer to B: yes

If you want to make further suggestions just append this list.
I'll start a doodle poll next Monday.  Depending from the outcome
of this poll I will submit a patch for "6.2. Best practices for
debian/control".



[1] http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2009/03/msg01165.html

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Re: Bug#524896: general: Home directory pollution

[Roger Leigh]

On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 07:58:51PM +0200, Julien BLACHE wrote:
> Michael Biebl  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> > The package responsible for creating those directories is xdg-users-dirs.
> 
> I don't have this package installed, yet transmission creates
> ~/Desktop and ~/Downloads each and every time I start it.
> 
> And, no, nothing in its configuration refers to any of those
> directories.
> 
> So this package may be part of the problem, but it's only one part of
> the problem.

I was horrified to discover in the last few weeks that Emacs now
also defaults to ~/Documents when you start it up, making you
delete the useless Documents before you can actually type in
something useful.  Is this part of some desktop conspiracy to force
us to use these Capitalised "folder" names?!


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Re: RFA: acpi-support -- glue layer for translating laptop buttons, plus legacy suspend support

[Bjørn Mork]

Josselin Mouette  writes:

> Le lundi 20 avril 2009 à 10:26 +0200, Bjørn Mork a écrit :
>> I prefer non-broken defaults. hal defaults are broken.  No, the keys are
>> not always mapped to  standard XF86* names.  They are sometimes mapped
>> into the blue.
>> 
>> See e.g.  bug #504643, which explains my disappearing keys. Finding it
>> took some time, since stupid me thought "regrep KEY_RADIO /usr/share/hal".
>> would reveal any hal related problems.
>
> So, the HAL defaults are broken *for one keyboard model*.

Make that "for every keyboard I'm using". Why would the number of
working keyboards matter?  If you care about such statistics you should
probably use Windows.  It works for far more people than Debian does.

> Geez, without
> HAL your function keys wouldn’t actually work at all 

Well, it did work with acpid as long as the kernel supported
/proc/acpi/event.  No need for hal at all those days.

> for many models
> without jumping through incredible hoops or installing specific
> software. I can’t believe you think this should be encouraged.

You still need the specific software to actually do something useful in
response to these keys.  It's not like they are supposed to generate
some character in your terminal.  They are supposed to trigger some
action, like e.g. switching video outputs or enabling bluetooth.

AFAIK, you won't get around the specific software requirement. 

> There are bugs? Fine, let’s fix them.

Doesn't look like anybody really does that.  5 months and 4 releases
without fixing a trivial bug like this?  Looks non-maintained to me.

>> You don't seriously beleive that I'm going to trust hal while it's in a
>> state like this, do you?
>
> So you found one bug in HAL, and you deem it unsuitable for everyone?

No, I don't.  You really could need a copy of "Reading for Dummies".

*I'm* not going to trust hal. Everyone else should make their own
 decision. 


Bjørn


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Re: Bug#524896: general: Home directory pollution

[Julien BLACHE]

Michael Biebl  wrote:

Hi,

> The package responsible for creating those directories is xdg-users-dirs.

I don't have this package installed, yet transmission creates
~/Desktop and ~/Downloads each and every time I start it.

And, no, nothing in its configuration refers to any of those
directories.

So this package may be part of the problem, but it's only one part of
the problem.

JB.

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Re: RFA: acpi-support -- glue layer for translating laptop buttons, plus legacy suspend support

[Josselin Mouette]

Le mardi 21 avril 2009 à 00:38 +0700, Mikhail Gusarov a écrit :
> Twas brillig at 19:36:30 20.04.2009 UTC+02 when j...@debian.org did gyre and 
> gimble:
>  JM> Why not introduce a FDI that disables polling for drives that are
>  JM> known to be broken?
> 
> Most of ATAPI CDROMs are, so it makes HAL media detection quite useless
> :)

I own several different ATA drives, and I’ve never seen this behavior.

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Re: RFA: acpi-support -- glue layer for translating laptop buttons, plus legacy suspend support

[Josselin Mouette]

Le lundi 20 avril 2009 à 19:43 +0200, Michael Biebl a écrit :
> Josselin Mouette wrote:
> > Why not introduce a FDI that disables polling for drives that are known
> > to be broken?
> 
> You mean like
> /usr/share/doc/hal/examples/no-cd-media-check.fdi
> and the note in README.Debian?

Something like this, but installed by default with an up-to-date list.

> My feeling is, that whatever we do, some people will still complain.

But if we do things right, we can reasonably say that those who complain
are assholes. Currently, they still have a point.

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Re: RFA: acpi-support -- glue layer for translating laptop buttons, plus legacy suspend support

[Michael Biebl]

Josselin Mouette wrote:
> Le lundi 20 avril 2009 à 18:26 +0200, Michael Biebl a écrit :
 Second, you can very easily disable this behaviour: man hal-disable-polling
>>> Great, but it's still not the default behaviour.  Does every
>>> user need to find out how to disable it after they become sufficiently
>>> annoyed by the constant spinning up of their CD drive?
>> Why should *every* user need to find out? Seems to me as if you are 
>> exaggerating
>> in order to make a point. For the majority of users it just works, that's 
>> why it
>> is the default.
> 
> Why not introduce a FDI that disables polling for drives that are known
> to be broken?
> 

You mean like
/usr/share/doc/hal/examples/no-cd-media-check.fdi
and the note in README.Debian?

My feeling is, that whatever we do, some people will still complain.

Michael

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Re: RFA: acpi-support -- glue layer for translating laptop buttons, plus legacy suspend support

[Josselin Mouette]

Le lundi 20 avril 2009 à 10:26 +0200, Bjørn Mork a écrit :
> I prefer non-broken defaults. hal defaults are broken.  No, the keys are
> not always mapped to  standard XF86* names.  They are sometimes mapped
> into the blue.
> 
> See e.g.  bug #504643, which explains my disappearing keys. Finding it
> took some time, since stupid me thought "regrep KEY_RADIO /usr/share/hal".
> would reveal any hal related problems.

So, the HAL defaults are broken *for one keyboard model*. Geez, without
HAL your function keys wouldn’t actually work at all for many models
without jumping through incredible hoops or installing specific
software. I can’t believe you think this should be encouraged.

There are bugs? Fine, let’s fix them.

> You don't seriously beleive that I'm going to trust hal while it's in a
> state like this, do you?

So you found one bug in HAL, and you deem it unsuitable for everyone?

-- 
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Re: RFA: acpi-support -- glue layer for translating laptop buttons, plus legacy suspend support

[Mikhail Gusarov]

Twas brillig at 19:36:30 20.04.2009 UTC+02 when j...@debian.org did gyre and 
gimble:

 >> Why should *every* user need to find out? Seems to me as if you are
 >> exaggerating in order to make a point. For the majority of users it
 >> just works, that's why it is the default.

 JM> Why not introduce a FDI that disables polling for drives that are
 JM> known to be broken?

Most of ATAPI CDROMs are, so it makes HAL media detection quite useless
:)

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Re: RFA: acpi-support -- glue layer for translating laptop buttons, plus legacy suspend support

[Josselin Mouette]

Le lundi 20 avril 2009 à 18:26 +0200, Michael Biebl a écrit :
> >> Second, you can very easily disable this behaviour: man hal-disable-polling
> > 
> > Great, but it's still not the default behaviour.  Does every
> > user need to find out how to disable it after they become sufficiently
> > annoyed by the constant spinning up of their CD drive?
> 
> Why should *every* user need to find out? Seems to me as if you are 
> exaggerating
> in order to make a point. For the majority of users it just works, that's why 
> it
> is the default.

Why not introduce a FDI that disables polling for drives that are known
to be broken?

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Bug#524896: general: Home directory pollution

[Michael Biebl]

reassign 524896 xdg-user-dirs
thanks

Ken Bloom wrote:
> Package: general
> Severity: normal
> 
> Something that I ran this morning decided to pollute my home directory
> creating the following directories:
>  Desktop/
>  Documents/
>  Download/
>  Music/
>  Pictures/
>  Public/
>  Templates/
>  Videos/
> 
> I haven't figured out what it is yet, but Debian needs to be more
> respectful of the way I organize my home directory (which doesn't use
> any of these) and not create any of these automatically.
> 
> If anyone knows what package(s) are responsible for this, please clone
> or reassign this bug to those packages.

The package responsible for creating those directories is xdg-users-dirs.

Michael

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Processed: Re: Bug#524896: general: Home directory pollution

[Debian Bug Tracking System]

Processing commands for cont...@bugs.debian.org:

> reassign 524896 xdg-user-dirs
Bug#524896: general: Home directory pollution
Bug reassigned from package `general' to `xdg-user-dirs'.

> thanks
Stopping processing here.

Please contact me if you need assistance.

Debian bug tracking system administrator
(administrator, Debian Bugs database)


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Bug#524896: general: Home directory pollution

[Ken Bloom]

Package: general
Severity: normal

Something that I ran this morning decided to pollute my home directory
creating the following directories:
 Desktop/
 Documents/
 Download/
 Music/
 Pictures/
 Public/
 Templates/
 Videos/

I haven't figured out what it is yet, but Debian needs to be more
respectful of the way I organize my home directory (which doesn't use
any of these) and not create any of these automatically.

If anyone knows what package(s) are responsible for this, please clone
or reassign this bug to those packages.

-- System Information:
Debian Release: squeeze/sid
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (500, 'unstable'), (1, 'experimental')
Architecture: i386 (i686)

Kernel: Linux 2.6.29-1-686 (SMP w/1 CPU core)
Locale: LANG=en_US.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash



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Re: RFA: acpi-support -- glue layer for translating laptop buttons, plus legacy suspend support

[Michael Biebl]

Roger Leigh wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 05:52:41PM +0200, Michael Biebl wrote:
>> Roger Leigh wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 03:55:15PM +0200, Michael Biebl wrote:
 hal does not poll removable disks, it does though poll cd-rom drives for 
 new
 media and afaik there is no way around that if you want automount for cdrom
 drives to work
>>> Spinning up the CD drive every 30 seconds is simply not an acceptable
>>> "solution".  If that's the best HAL can do, it should be disabled by
>>> default, and users will simply have to select the device by hand; we're
>>> only talking about automatic mounting here, after all.
>> First, polling the cd drive for new media should not spin it up. If it does 
>> it
>> is most likely a kernel/driver or firmware bug.
> 
> So the bug is in a kernel driver, possibly.  But, it's still hal
> triggering the bug by the continual polling.
> 
>> Second, you can very easily disable this behaviour: man hal-disable-polling
> 
> Great, but it's still not the default behaviour.  Does every
> user need to find out how to disable it after they become sufficiently
> annoyed by the constant spinning up of their CD drive?

Why should *every* user need to find out? Seems to me as if you are exaggerating
in order to make a point. For the majority of users it just works, that's why it
is the default.

Michael

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Re: RFA: acpi-support -- glue layer for translating laptop buttons, plus legacy suspend support

[Roger Leigh]

On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 05:52:41PM +0200, Michael Biebl wrote:
> Roger Leigh wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 03:55:15PM +0200, Michael Biebl wrote:
> >> hal does not poll removable disks, it does though poll cd-rom drives for 
> >> new
> >> media and afaik there is no way around that if you want automount for cdrom
> >> drives to work
> > 
> > Spinning up the CD drive every 30 seconds is simply not an acceptable
> > "solution".  If that's the best HAL can do, it should be disabled by
> > default, and users will simply have to select the device by hand; we're
> > only talking about automatic mounting here, after all.
> 
> First, polling the cd drive for new media should not spin it up. If it does it
> is most likely a kernel/driver or firmware bug.

So the bug is in a kernel driver, possibly.  But, it's still hal
triggering the bug by the continual polling.

> Second, you can very easily disable this behaviour: man hal-disable-polling

Great, but it's still not the default behaviour.  Does every
user need to find out how to disable it after they become sufficiently
annoyed by the constant spinning up of their CD drive?

Seriously, mine all spin up just a second after they spin down from the
previous poll until I kill HAL (-addon-storage).  This continual wear
and tear on the drive is unreasonable.  I don't want HAL to kill my
hardware and constantly annoy me, just because I leave a CD in the
drive.


Regards,
Roger

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Re: RFA: acpi-support -- glue layer for translating laptop buttons, plus legacy suspend support

[Michael Biebl]

Roger Leigh wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 03:55:15PM +0200, Michael Biebl wrote:
>> hal does not poll removable disks, it does though poll cd-rom drives for new
>> media and afaik there is no way around that if you want automount for cdrom
>> drives to work
> 
> Spinning up the CD drive every 30 seconds is simply not an acceptable
> "solution".  If that's the best HAL can do, it should be disabled by
> default, and users will simply have to select the device by hand; we're
> only talking about automatic mounting here, after all.

First, polling the cd drive for new media should not spin it up. If it does it
is most likely a kernel/driver or firmware bug.
Second, you can very easily disable this behaviour: man hal-disable-polling

Anyways, this has become very OT.

Cheers,
Michael
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Re: Bug#524834: ITP: syncmaildir -- Sync Mail Dir is a set of tools to synchronize Maildirs

[Adeodato Simó]

+ Enrico Tassi (Mon, 20 Apr 2009 10:10:35 +0200):

Hola!

>   Description : Sync Mail Dir is a set of tools to synchronize Maildirs

>   Sync Mail Dir is a set of utilities to synchronize a pair of mail
>   boxes in Maildir format, using SSH to transfer data.

>   Unlike OfflineIMAP It requires no IMAP server to be installed on the
>   remote host.

>   Sync Mail Dir design is similar to the one Maildirsync, but is more
>   efficient in terms of CPU cycles and disk I/O.

So does it support (or will it support) using it in the “fetch from
server, read/delete some stuff on client, maybe read some stuff on the
server, push to server” mode, and it’ll do all the smart sync stuff (I’m
told) OfflineIMAP does?

Thanks,

-- 
- Are you sure we're good?
- Always.
-- Rory and Lorelai


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Re: RFA: acpi-support -- glue layer for translating laptop buttons, plus legacy suspend support

[Roger Leigh]

On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 03:55:15PM +0200, Michael Biebl wrote:
> Bjørn Mork wrote:
> 
> [lot of fud deleted]
> 
> > 
> > The hal default "polling removable disks" is annoying, useless, and an
> > example of bad hal design.  You may of course continue to ignore this by
> > claiming that I don't know what I'm talking about.  Unfortunately, it
> 
> Seems you are confusing a lot of things, "polling removable disks" being one.
> hal does not poll removable disks, it does though poll cd-rom drives for new
> media and afaik there is no way around that if you want automount for cdrom
> drives to work

Spinning up the CD drive every 30 seconds is simply not an acceptable
"solution".  If that's the best HAL can do, it should be disabled by
default, and users will simply have to select the device by hand; we're
only talking about automatic mounting here, after all.

It's the primary reason I try to remove HAL whenever possible.  
#370186 might have been closed, but it's still present on all my
hardware, and it's still IMO a grave bug.


Regards,
Roger

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Re: RFA: acpi-support -- glue layer for translating laptop buttons, plus legacy suspend support

[Julien Cristau]

On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 16:24:59 +0200, Rene Engelhard wrote:

> Julien Cristau wrote:
> > > hal breaks existing working configurations without warnings.  The simple
> > > test case is using a non-US keyboard properly configured as such in
> > > xorg.conf.  Introduce evdev/hal and watch users get frustrated.  The
> > > problem of course:  keyboard layout cannot be auto-configured.  But why
> > > ignore existing configuration?
> > > 
> > we don't ignore existing keymap configuration, and you get the same
> > layout after the upgrade as was configured in xorg.conf.
> 
> I
> a) got an english keyboard instead of a german one
> b) sudently lost my ~, | etc. with the upgrade.
> 
> I would not call that preserving the configuration, honestly.
> 
I would call it a bug.  If people tell us about them, some bugs get
fixed.  If not, well...

Cheers,
Julien


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Re: RFA: acpi-support -- glue layer for translating laptop buttons, plus legacy suspend support

[Rene Engelhard]

Julien Cristau wrote:
> > hal breaks existing working configurations without warnings.  The simple
> > test case is using a non-US keyboard properly configured as such in
> > xorg.conf.  Introduce evdev/hal and watch users get frustrated.  The
> > problem of course:  keyboard layout cannot be auto-configured.  But why
> > ignore existing configuration?
> > 
> we don't ignore existing keymap configuration, and you get the same
> layout after the upgrade as was configured in xorg.conf.

I
a) got an english keyboard instead of a german one
b) sudently lost my ~, | etc. with the upgrade.

I would not call that preserving the configuration, honestly.

Grüße/Regards,

René
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Re: RFA: acpi-support -- glue layer for translating laptop buttons, plus legacy suspend support

[Michael Biebl]

Bjørn Mork wrote:

[lot of fud deleted]

> 
> The hal default "polling removable disks" is annoying, useless, and an
> example of bad hal design.  You may of course continue to ignore this by
> claiming that I don't know what I'm talking about.  Unfortunately, it

Seems you are confusing a lot of things, "polling removable disks" being one.
hal does not poll removable disks, it does though poll cd-rom drives for new
media and afaik there is no way around that if you want automount for cdrom
drives to work (newer sata driver *should* support hardware notifications when
using libata [1]).

Cheers,
Michael

[1] http://kerneltrap.org/Linux/Asynchronous_Event_Notification_Infrastructure
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Bug#524861: ITP: python-daemon -- Python library to implement a well-behaved Unix daemon process

[Ben Finney]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Ben Finney 

Package name: python-daemon
Version : 1.4.4
Upstream Author : Ben Finney
URL : http://pypi.python.org/pypi/python-daemon/
License : PSF-2+
Programming Lang: Python
Description : Python library to implement a well-behaved Unix daemon process

This library implements PEP 3143: Standard daemon process library.

A well-behaved Unix daemon process is tricky to get right, but the
required steps are much the same for every daemon program. A
DaemonContext instance holds the behaviour and configured process
environment for the program; use the instance as a context manager to
enter a daemon state.

-- 
 \ “I must say that I find television very educational. The minute |
  `\   somebody turns it on, I go to the library and read a book.” |
_o__)—Groucho Marx |
Ben Finney 


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Bug#524846: ITP: between -- game about consciousness and isolation

[Paul Wise]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Paul Wise 
X-Debbugs-CC: debian-devel-ga...@lists.debian.org, debian-devel@lists.debian.org

* Package name: between
  Version : 5
  Upstream Author : Jason Rohrer
* URL : 
http://www.esquire.com/features/best-and-brightest-2008/rohrer-game
* License : None (Public Domain)
  Programming Lang: C++, PHP
  Description : game about consciousness and isolation

Long description will be a distillation of the above URL.

This will be maintained by the pkg-games team.

-- 
bye,
pabs

http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise


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Re: Supporting apache 1.3 in gsoap or not?

[Steffen Moeller]

Hi Stefano,

Michael Biebl wrote:
> Stefano Canepa wrote:
>> Dear all,
>>  I working on gsoap package to update it to 2.7.13 and close some bugs.
>> lintian warns me about the use of old libtools in the module for apache
>> 1.3. Upstream developer told me it is abandoned and suggested me to
>> delete it from the package. What do you suggest to do? 
> 
> Maybe I'm missing the obvious here, but there is no more apache 1.x package in
> unstable (or even stable), so why would you want to keep support for apache 
> 1.3?

I uploaded the 2.7.9l version that is currently in Debian, just because the 
earlier
version had issues with a project of ours. Please take care to provide shared 
libraries.
These might not be offered by default (they were not in the past).

Best,

Steffen


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Bug#524835: ITP: thaifonts-siampradesh -- Thai TrueType fonts derived from DIP/SIPA contested fonts

[Theppitak Karoonboonyanan]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Theppitak Karoonboonyanan 


* Package name: thaifonts-siampradesh
  Version : 0.2.0
  Upstream Author : Department of Intellectual Property (DIP), Ministry of
Commerce; Software Industry Promotion Agency (Public
Organization) (SIPA)
* URL : http://linux.thai.net/projects/thaifonts-siampradesh
* License : OFL-alike, with written notification requirement (see below)
  Programming Lang: Fontforge sfd
  Description : Thai TrueType fonts derived from DIP/SIPA contest fonts

This package provides Thai fonts derived from winning fonts of a contest
arranged by Department of Intellectual Properties and Software Industry
Promotion Agency, Thailand, in TrueType format. It includes fonts with new
original designs for use in normal texts as well as decorative and
hand-writing fonts.

* License:

Font Computer Program License Agreement

Reserved Font Names for this Font Computer Program:
TH Krub, TH Krub Italic, TH Krub Bold, TH Krub Bold Italic,
TH Niramit AS, TH Niramit AS Italic, TH Niramit AS Bold, TH Niramit AS Bold 
Italic,
TH Kodchasal, TH Kodchasal Italic, TH Kodchasal Bold, TH Kodchasal Bold Italic,
TH Sarabun PSK, TH Sarabun PSK Italic, TH Sarabun PSK Bold, TH Sarabun PSK Bold 
Italic,
TH K2D July8, TH K2D July8 Italic, TH K2D July8 Bold, TH K2D July8 Bold Italic,
TH Mali Grade 6, TH Mali Grade 6 Italic, TH Mali Grade 6 Bold, TH Mali Grade 6 
Bold Italic,
TH Chakra Petch, TH Chakra Petch Italic, TH Chakra Petch Bold, TH Chakra Petch 
Bold Italic,
TH Baijam, TH Baijam Italic, TH Baijam Bold, TH Baijam Bold Italic,
TH KoHo, TH KoHo Italic, TH KoHo Bold, TH KoHo Bold Italic,
TH Fah Kwang, TH Fah Kwang Italic, TH Fah Kwang Bold, TH Fah Kwang Bold Italic.

This Font Computer Program is the copyright of the Department of Intellectual
Property (DIP), Ministry of Commerce and the Software Industry Promotion Agency
(Public Organization) (SIPA) 

The purposes of this Font Computer Program License are to stimulate worldwide
development of cooperative font creation, to benefit for academic, to share and
to develop in partnership with others.

Terms and Conditions of the Font Computer Program

(1) Allow to use without any charges and allow to reproduce, study, adapt and
distribute this Font Computer Program. Neither the original version nor adapted
version of Font Computer Program may be sold by itself, except bundled and/or
sold with any computer program.

(2) If you wish to adapt this Font Computer Program, you must notify copyright
owners (DIP & SIPA) in writing.

(3) No adapted version of Font Computer Program may use the Reserved Font
Name(s), the name(s) of the copyright owners and the author(s) of the Font
Computer Program must not be used to promote or advertise any adapted version,
except obtaining written permission from copyright owners and the author(s).

(4) The adapted version of Font Computer Program must be released under the
term and condition of this license.

DISCLAIMER
THE FONT COMPUTER PROGRAM AND RELATED FILES ARE PROVIDED “AS IS” AND WITHOUT
WARRANTY OF ANY KIND.  NO GUARANTEES ARE MADE THAT THIS FONT COMPUTER PROGRAM
WILL WORK AS EXPECTED OR WILL BE DEVELOPED FURTHUR IN ANY SPECIFIC WAY.  THERE
IS NO OFFER OR GUARANTEE OF TECHNICAL SUPPORT.  



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Re: RFA: acpi-support -- glue layer for translating laptop buttons, plus legacy suspend support

[Bjørn Mork]

Josselin Mouette  writes:
> Le jeudi 16 avril 2009 à 15:06 +0200, Bjørn Mork a écrit :
>> >> a) laptop keys remapped or disappearing (might be caused by the driver -
>> >>I don't know)
>> >
>> > Yes, they are remapped to the standard XF86* names, so that applications
>> > configuring shortcuts can have sensible defaults.
>> 
>> So you justify breaking existing setups by claiming the new
>> configuration is more "sensible".  How many times?  How often?
>
> If you know how to homogenize keycodes between different keyboard models
> without actually changing the keycodes, good for you, but I don’t. 
>
> Also, do you prefer configuring a keycode named “0xae” or
> “XF86AudioLowerVolume”?

I prefer non-broken defaults. hal defaults are broken.  No, the keys are
not always mapped to  standard XF86* names.  They are sometimes mapped
into the blue.

See e.g.  bug #504643, which explains my disappearing keys. Finding it
took some time, since stupid me thought "regrep KEY_RADIO /usr/share/hal".
would reveal any hal related problems.

This bug will bite every ThinkPad-user when /proc/acpi/event is removed
and we are forced to replace acpid functionality (already so in the
latest squeeze kernels).  And the cause is a simple case of a broken
default key remapping, reported more than 5 months ago. Open through
several new releases of hal-info.

You don't seriously beleive that I'm going to trust hal while it's in a
state like this, do you?

>> >> b) unwanted auto-mounting
>> >
>> > HAL will not do auto-mounting by itself. Some user-level daemon must be
>> > listening for events and requesting the actual mount.
>> 
>> The auto-mount support in hal is unwanted even without such daemons.
>> Continously polling all removable storage is a very bad default IMHO.
>> And why do it if there's no daemon listening for the events anyway?
>
> You’re mixing apples and oranges.

I'm sure you're right.  You see, there is no documentation for the
oranges, which may have made me assume they are fruit just like the
apples.

The hal default "polling removable disks" is annoying, useless, and an
example of bad hal design.  You may of course continue to ignore this by
claiming that I don't know what I'm talking about.  Unfortunately, it
won't do much more that continue to document hal as a dead-end with a
big "STAY AWAY!" warning sign.

You might as well implement a popup asking the user if (s)he is present
every 30 seconds.  I'm sure it would be very useful for hal to know, and
it woulb be only slightly more annoying than the disk polling.

Yes, I do know that the most annoying features can be disabled.  My
concerns are the bad Debian default values, not the features themselves,
combined with forcing these packages on the user.  There's absolutely no
excuse for forcing every X user to accept all the bogus key remapping in
hal-info.



Bjørn


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Bug#524834: ITP: syncmaildir -- Sync Mail Dir is a set of tools to synchronize Maildirs

[Enrico Tassi]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Enrico Tassi 


* Package name: syncmaildir
  Version : 0.9.2
  Upstream Author : Enrico Tassi 
* URL : http://syncmaildir.sf.net
* License : GPL
  Programming Lang: C, Lua, Bash
  Description : Sync Mail Dir is a set of tools to synchronize Maildirs

  Sync Mail Dir is a set of utilities to synchronize a pair of mail
  boxes in Maildir format, using SSH to transfer data.
  
  Unlike OfflineIMAP It requires no IMAP server to be installed on the
  remote host.
 
  Sync Mail Dir design is similar to the one Maildirsync, but is more
  efficient in terms of CPU cycles and disk I/O.

-- 
Enrico Tassi



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Re: Is Ayman Negm MIA?

[Sandro Tosi]

Hello,

On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 07:46, Rince  wrote:
> Ayman Negm is the maintainer of, among others, the gddrescue package.
> The package hasn't been touched by him since 2006, and several bugs
> about it have required NMUs by other people.

Ayman is been tracked in MIA database, and he's quite busy these days.

> Several people have volunteered to take it over if he's AWOL,

where did you see this? the bts, from a first fast check, show only
interests in new upstream version to be uploaded, not in taking it
over. There is only a proposed NMU 2 months old, and stop.

> and I'll
> throw my name in the pile as well...but again, only if he's gone. :)

Please do this statement on a public place easily reachable when
someone searches for information about the package; the best place is
the BTS, for example replying to this bug: #460946 .

Moreover, have you tried to contact the maintainer himself? I'm adding
him here in CC.

If the situation does not evolve in 1/2 week, please contact us back
and we'll see what we can do.

Regards,
-- 
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My website: http://matrixhasu.altervista.org/
Me at Debian: http://wiki.debian.org/SandroTosi


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