Re: multiarch coinstallability of libc6 / conflicting loader paths

[Paul Wise]

On Sun, Dec 7, 2014 at 8:08 AM, Timo Weingärtner wrote:

> So I enabled architectures in dpkg, updated the package lists and tried
> installing libc6 packages for each architecture, but dpkg refused to unpack
> libc6:mipsel after libc6:powerpc had been installed, because both
> architectures use the same path for their dynamic loader: /lib/ld.so.1

FYI, some earlier discussion of this issue:

https://wiki.debian.org/Multiarch/LibraryPathOverview#ELF_interpreter-1
https://lists.linaro.org/pipermail/linaro-toolchain/2010-July/58.html
https://sourceware.org/glibc/wiki/ABIList
https://wiki.linaro.org/RikuVoipio/LdSoTable
https://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-patches/2012-04/threads.html#00056

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pabs

https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise


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Re: Plan to orphan cdn.debian.net

[Paul Wise]

On Sat, Dec 6, 2014 at 5:44 PM, Yasuhiro Araki wrote:

> Could you show the opinion to support ancient apt, which is used in debian
> older than lenny, by cdn.debian.net?

Since lenny is no longer available on the Debian mirror network nor on
cdn.debian.net, but only on archive.debian.org, that seems reasonable.

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pabs

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multiarch coinstallability of libc6 / conflicting loader paths

[Timo Weingärtner]

Hi,

last week I tried exploiting multiarch to set up a machine to build and run 
binaries for multiple architectures.

So I enabled architectures in dpkg, updated the package lists and tried 
installing libc6 packages for each architecture, but dpkg refused to unpack 
libc6:mipsel after libc6:powerpc had been installed, because both 
architectures use the same path for their dynamic loader: /lib/ld.so.1

A look into the archive revealed two groups of conflicting loader paths:

/lib/ld.so.1:
hppa hurd-i386 kfreebsd-i386 m68k mips mipsel powerpc powerpcspe s390
/lib/ld-linux.so.2:
alpha i386 sh4 sparc

Other architectures have loader paths containing the architecture name (amd64 
arm64 armhf kfreebsd-amd64 x32) or ones that are merely unique: /lib/ld-
linux.so.3 (armel), /lib/ld64.so.1 (s390x), /lib64/ld64.so.1 (ppc64), 
/lib64/ld64.so.2 (ppc64el), /lib64/ld-linux.so.2 (sparc64).

The problem is that loader paths are hard to change, at least for binaries 
that need to be run at boot time. Later we can use binfmt-support to call the 
loader with its multiarch'ed path or change qemu-user in that way.

A short-term fix for the dpkg errors could be to express the conflicting 
loader paths with Conflicts: between the relevant libc6 packages.

My proposal for a long-term solution is:
* qemu-user redirects loader names to multiarch'ed paths
* libc6 adds binfmt entries for the native architectures
* libc6 removes the loader symlinks from the package tarball and instead
  creates it in maintainer scripts for the native architecture(s)

Is that a workable plan or did I miss something?


Greetings
Timo

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Re: mass hosting + cgi [WAS: Technical committee acting in gross violation of the Debian constitution]

[Christoph Anton Mitterer]

On Fri, 2014-12-05 at 03:47 +0100, Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult
wrote: 
> No, it's not, and it's pretty cheap, if done right.
Yes it definitely is, because simply by having gazillions of different
users on the same host, you increase the chance that someone is doing
something stupid, which can be exploited.

And I explicitly didn't talk about what's "cheap", but if you count on
security, you probably shouldn't look at the money. 


> IIRC at that time they've been using cgiexec. I just don't recall
> why they didn't use my muxmpm. (maybe because apache upstream was
> too lazy to pick it up, even though it had been shipped by several
> large distros).
Is that merged upstream in the meantime or currently shipped in any
major distro? Admittedly I haven't had heard about it before.


> It adds additional complexity, especially when you're going to manage
> a _large_ number (several k) of users per box.
Security is of course never easy.

>  In such scenarios
> you wanna be careful about system resources like sockets, fds, etc.
I wouldn't see how this is different with other solutions.


Cheers,
Chris.


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Re: DE features dependent on Systemd

[Tomas Pospisek]

Am 06.12.2014 um 13:39 schrieb The Wanderer:
> On 12/06/2014 at 05:47 AM, Tomas Pospisek wrote:
> 
>> Am 06.12.2014 um 00:55 schrieb Svante Signell:
>>
>>> On Fri, 2014-12-05 at 15:22 -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
> 
 When NFSv4 development sparked the modern Linux keyring data
 model, we were delighted to switch (and then got very frustrated
 by the GPL-only tags on various keyring features, but that's
 another argument).
>>>
>>> So I wish you a happy life with current (Debian chosen) technology,
>>> it is perfect! No more problems with bugs popping up or people
>>> being unable to boot their desktop computers/servers. Merry
>>> Christmas :)
>>
>> So in apparently yet another tantrum you threw a buzzword ("OpenAFS")
>> in the face of the audience, Russ actually managed to (miraculously)
>> make sense of seeing that single word, answered and explained in
>> detail. And the reply you produce is yet more polemic and snide and
>> there's not a single (!) word of appreciation and acknowledgement of
>> the argument of yours that Russ put in perspective or maybe refuted?
>>
>> It makes the impression on me that your goal is to prevent systemd
>> by whatever means available you. It seems to be a holy grail of
>> yours: total destruction of systemd and all of its misguided
>> "followers".
> 
> I don't think this last is entirely fair; I don't think (she?)'s
> interested in the total destruction of systemd, only in restoring it to
> a niche off in the metaphorical corner - to a status of "if you want to
> use it yourself, or advocate for others to use it, feel free - but don't
> do anything that makes it harder for others *not* to use it".

Might be you're right, and I've exagerated yet once again.

> Which I would actually agree with, albeit not with the type of vocal
> attitude towards it which (she?) apparently brings to the table. I like
> to think I'm both more rational and more reasonable than that.
> 
>> I've ddg'd a bit but was unable to find a killfile for Thunderbird
>> yet. Does anybody know of such functionality for Thunderbird?
> 
> Tools -> Message Filters. I don't use it for killfile purposes in
> E-mail, but I've used it that way (in "mark read" form, at least) on
> Usenet, with reasonably good effect.

Thanks a lot,
*t



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Re: Age of built packages to be part of the jessie release?

[Dimitri John Ledkov]

Following on this conversation.

I did some simple stats. There are 6361 binary packages that have the
same name in stable and testing on (all, amd64) architecture. This
translates into 4821 source packages.
Skimming through the list of them, I've poked some that for sure will
generate a diff if rebuilt.

I'm attaching a diff of a no-change rebuild of python-amqplib_1.0.2-1.dsc.

As you can see - it gains
* multi-arch compatible generated dependencies
* the py3compile call correctly specifies compatible version numbers
* corrected prerm script that can work even if py3clean is not available
* the install size is reduced on python2 package
* python2 dependencies are simplified
* usr/share/pyshared files are no longer shipped
* python2.6 files are no longer shipped

Overall, I'm inclined to rebuild all 4821 unrebuild packages, generate
diffs, and if there are substantial changes  discuss with maintainers
/ release team to either upload no-change rebuild (arch:all packages)
and/or schedule binNMUs (for arch:any packages)

Regards,

Dimitri.
diff -ru old/python3-amqplib/DEBIAN/control new/python3-amqplib/DEBIAN/control
--- old/python3-amqplib/DEBIAN/control  2012-03-19 18:54:29.0 +
+++ new/python3-amqplib/DEBIAN/control  2014-12-06 21:15:06.0 +
@@ -4,7 +4,7 @@
 Architecture: all
 Maintainer: Mikhail Gusarov 
 Installed-Size: 202
-Depends: python3 (>= 3.1.3-13~)
+Depends: python3:any (>= 3.3.2-2~)
 Suggests: python-amqplib-doc
 Section: python
 Priority: optional
diff -ru old/python3-amqplib/DEBIAN/postinst new/python3-amqplib/DEBIAN/postinst
--- old/python3-amqplib/DEBIAN/postinst 2012-03-19 18:54:28.0 +
+++ new/python3-amqplib/DEBIAN/postinst 2014-12-06 21:15:06.0 +
@@ -1,9 +1,9 @@
 #!/bin/sh
 set -e
 
-# Automatically added by dh_python3:
+# Automatically added by dhpython:
 if which py3compile >/dev/null 2>&1; then
-   py3compile -p python3-amqplib 
+   py3compile -p python3-amqplib -V 3.0-
 fi
 
 # End automatically added section
diff -ru old/python3-amqplib/DEBIAN/prerm new/python3-amqplib/DEBIAN/prerm
--- old/python3-amqplib/DEBIAN/prerm2012-03-19 18:54:28.0 +
+++ new/python3-amqplib/DEBIAN/prerm2014-12-06 21:15:06.0 +
@@ -1,9 +1,12 @@
 #!/bin/sh
 set -e
 
-# Automatically added by dh_python3:
+# Automatically added by dhpython:
 if which py3clean >/dev/null 2>&1; then
py3clean -p python3-amqplib 
+else
+   dpkg -L python3-amqplib | perl -ne 's,/([^/]*)\.py$,/__pycache__/\1.*, 
or next; unlink $_ or die $! foreach glob($_)'
+   find /usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/ -type d -name __pycache__ -empty 
-print0 | xargs --null --no-run-if-empty rmdir
 fi
 
 # End automatically added section
diff -ru old/python-amqplib/DEBIAN/control new/python-amqplib/DEBIAN/control
--- old/python-amqplib/DEBIAN/control   2012-03-19 18:54:28.0 +
+++ new/python-amqplib/DEBIAN/control   2014-12-06 21:15:06.0 +
@@ -2,8 +2,8 @@
 Version: 1.0.2-1
 Architecture: all
 Maintainer: Mikhail Gusarov 
-Installed-Size: 232
-Depends: python2.7 | python2.6, python (>= 2.6.6-7~), python (<< 2.8)
+Installed-Size: 202
+Depends: python (>= 2.7), python (<< 2.8)
 Suggests: python-amqplib-doc
 Section: python
 Priority: optional
diff -ru old/python-amqplib/DEBIAN/md5sums new/python-amqplib/DEBIAN/md5sums
--- old/python-amqplib/DEBIAN/md5sums   2012-03-19 18:54:29.0 +
+++ new/python-amqplib/DEBIAN/md5sums   2014-12-06 21:15:07.0 +
@@ -1,15 +1,14 @@
-9fed561782d5bce6f687d42ef04af21a  
usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/amqplib-1.0.2.egg-info
 afb73ab22334ace27595f5e3cedc48f1  
usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/amqplib-1.0.2.egg-info
+68b329da9893e34099c7d8ad5cb9c940  
usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/amqplib/__init__.py
+eb85c7e6645ad0f1a1d1614dcdcdc401  
usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/amqplib/client_0_8/__init__.py
+bb0de492a3f7cc004d8df03b9cd15167  
usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/amqplib/client_0_8/abstract_channel.py
+a874737ad52ff100de75c06709672507  
usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/amqplib/client_0_8/basic_message.py
+dd1e6575f39ef75714a272c87fb19624  
usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/amqplib/client_0_8/channel.py
+fb3276dd7c6a066bdb34132ca1c65b82  
usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/amqplib/client_0_8/connection.py
+1530aceb856fb58758fdce0bcef5db54  
usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/amqplib/client_0_8/exceptions.py
+405b4a8d1c9ab8727e5fe0985f999258  
usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/amqplib/client_0_8/method_framing.py
+ef416a18e00a9f1d6eee3d906f61b017  
usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/amqplib/client_0_8/serialization.py
+5dd509f0277b65108deccad28db16520  
usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/amqplib/client_0_8/transport.py
 ca8f4e104236cba255448e0ffeff3974  
usr/share/doc/python-amqplib/changelog.Debian.gz
 bbef86b4d1e1a8e71599e7ff052453ce  usr/share/doc/python-amqplib/changelog.gz
 ceeced913e7cb70ab3d83e1db9764543  usr/share/doc/python-amqplib/copyright
-68b329da9893e34099c7d8ad5cb9c940  usr/share/pyshared/a

Re: Plan to orphan cdn.debian.net

[Luca Capello]

Hi あらき-san,

On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 18:44:46 +0900, Yasuhiro Araki wrote:
> As you may know, I have provided cdn.debian.net for geo mirror service for
> older than apt (0.7.21 is released Apr. 2009) since Feb. 2008 (http://
> lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2008/02/msg00700.html).

Thank you very much for your work, I was very glad not to have to modify
my sources.list whenever I was traveling around.

Thx, bye,
Gismo / ルカ


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Re: Technical committee acting in gross violation of the Debian constitution

[Russ Allbery]

"Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult"  writes:

> What about the enforced replace on dist-upgrade, which at least produces
> lots of extra work and can easily cause systems being unbootable ?

It's an urban legend that people are getting all upset about even though
it's not actually true?

Right now, there is a pre-upgrade step that you have to take (apt-get
install sysvinit-core prior to dist-upgrade) to avoid switching to systemd
[*].  That's certainly not the best imaginable UI, but there's nothing
"enforced" about an upgrade that you can easily avoid with one preliminary
step.

Those of us who have been using Debian for a while and have gone through
many dist-upgrades will remember several releases where there were
pre-upgrade steps we had to take for dist-upgrade to succeed, including
some that could make the system unbootable if forgotten.  It's never
ideal, but, once again, people are confusing the normal variation of
Debian releases with the end of the world because the letters "systemd"
happen to be attached.  (This is not to say that we shouldn't aspire to
doing better when we can.  Only that people are getting unnecessarily
panicked about this.)

[*] It's possible that you may also have to add a pin and/or install
systemd-shim, but hopefully not.  I think if a pin is also necessary,
there's a bug somewhere, although I haven't investigated it myself and
don't know how easy it would be to fix that bug.  Regardless, one step
or two, we can certainly document this in the release notes even if it
doesn't get better before the release.  We should definitely sort out
the exact working instructions for what we ship with jessie and get
them into the release notes before we release.

-- 
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org)   


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Bug#772414: ITP: entityx -- A fast, type-safe C++ Entity Component System

[Jason Pleau]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Jason Pleau 

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Jason Pleau 

* Package name: entityx
  Version : 1.0.1
  Upstream Author : Alec Thomas a...@swapoff.org
* URL : https://github.com/alecthomas/entityx
* License : MIT
  Programming Lang: C++
  Description : A fast, type-safe C++ Entity Component System


EntityX is an Entity Component system that uses C++11 features to provide type-
safe component management, event delivery, etc. It was built with game
development in mind, although it can be used with all kinds of projects.

I use this library and would like to see it in the Debian archive. It's a
wonderful tool that allows developers to focus on their project, instead of
having to re-invent the wheel for this kind of programming pattern.

I plan to package it in collab-maint.


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Bug#772344: ITP: gnome-weather -- small application to monitor the weather conditions and forecasts

[Josselin Mouette]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Josselin Mouette 

* Package name: gnome-weather
  Version : 3.14.1
  Upstream Author : Giovanni Campagna
* URL : https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Weather
* License : GPL v2
  Programming Lang: Javascript
  Description : access current weather conditions and forecasts

This is a small application that allows you to monitor the current
weather conditions for your city, or anywhere in the world, and to
access updated forecasts provided by various internet services.

The package will be hosted in the pkg-gnome repository.
-- 
 .''`.Josselin Mouette
: :' :
`. `'
  `-


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Re: DE features dependent on Systemd

[The Wanderer]

On 12/06/2014 at 05:47 AM, Tomas Pospisek wrote:

> Am 06.12.2014 um 00:55 schrieb Svante Signell:
> 
>> On Fri, 2014-12-05 at 15:22 -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:

>>> When NFSv4 development sparked the modern Linux keyring data
>>> model, we were delighted to switch (and then got very frustrated
>>> by the GPL-only tags on various keyring features, but that's
>>> another argument).
>> 
>> So I wish you a happy life with current (Debian chosen) technology,
>> it is perfect! No more problems with bugs popping up or people
>> being unable to boot their desktop computers/servers. Merry
>> Christmas :)
> 
> So in apparently yet another tantrum you threw a buzzword ("OpenAFS")
> in the face of the audience, Russ actually managed to (miraculously)
> make sense of seeing that single word, answered and explained in
> detail. And the reply you produce is yet more polemic and snide and
> there's not a single (!) word of appreciation and acknowledgement of
> the argument of yours that Russ put in perspective or maybe refuted?
> 
> It makes the impression on me that your goal is to prevent systemd
> by whatever means available you. It seems to be a holy grail of
> yours: total destruction of systemd and all of its misguided
> "followers".

I don't think this last is entirely fair; I don't think (she?)'s
interested in the total destruction of systemd, only in restoring it to
a niche off in the metaphorical corner - to a status of "if you want to
use it yourself, or advocate for others to use it, feel free - but don't
do anything that makes it harder for others *not* to use it".

Which I would actually agree with, albeit not with the type of vocal
attitude towards it which (she?) apparently brings to the table. I like
to think I'm both more rational and more reasonable than that.

> I've ddg'd a bit but was unable to find a killfile for Thunderbird
> yet. Does anybody know of such functionality for Thunderbird?

Tools -> Message Filters. I don't use it for killfile purposes in
E-mail, but I've used it that way (in "mark read" form, at least) on
Usenet, with reasonably good effect.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



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Re: DE features dependent on Systemd

[Tomas Pospisek]

Am 06.12.2014 um 00:55 schrieb Svante Signell:
> On Fri, 2014-12-05 at 15:22 -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> Svante Signell  writes:
>>> On Wed, 2014-12-03 at 16:55 +, Simon McVittie wrote:
 On 03/12/14 14:46, Svante Signell wrote:
>>
> If more granularity is needed, what's hindering introduction of even
> more groups: like an image group and splitting the fb0 to more devices?
> Or even subdirectories like /dev/snd/* for audio etc.
>>
 This does not actually solve the same problem as logind's "uaccess", or
 ConsoleKit's "udev ACL" (which was an older version of the same general
 idea): it just splits it up into a larger number of orthogonal instances
 of the same problem, which is that group membership makes a poor
 encoding for temporary permissions.
>>
>>> Have you ever heard about openafs?
> 
>> When NFSv4 development
>> sparked the modern Linux keyring data model, we were delighted to switch
>> (and then got very frustrated by the GPL-only tags on various keyring
>> features, but that's another argument).
> 
> So I wish you a happy life with current (Debian chosen) technology, it
> is perfect! No more problems with bugs popping up or people being unable
> to boot their desktop computers/servers. Merry Christmas :) 

So in apparently yet another tantrum you threw a buzzword ("OpenAFS") in
the face of the audience, Russ actually managed to (miraculously) make
sense of seeing that single word, answered and explained in detail. And
the reply you produce is yet more polemic and snide and there's not a
single (!) word of appreciation and acknowledgement of the argument of
yours that Russ put in perspective or maybe refuted?

It makes the impression on me that your goal is to prevent systemd by
whatever means available you. It seems to be a holy grail of yours:
total destruction of systemd and all of its misguided "followers".

You very much make the impression of an adrenaline saturated teenager
having realized that everything is the adults' fault. And now the
anti-systemd religion has enlightened you and you are glowing with the
joy of knowing that you are ready to die for THE TRUTH.

Sure it's worth destroying, wearing out, burning out all those idiots
blinded by Satan-d if they are not ready to convert to the one and only
TRUTH, right? You can not get out of this Jihad until the reign of Go-d
is reinstalled on earth, right?

Is my impression correct?

If you are unable to realize the problem with acting like this, then I'd
rather put you in a killfile and wait a few years for the adrenaline to
level down and to allow for balanced thoughts about the Linux landscape
again.

I've ddg'd a bit but was unable to find a killfile for Thunderbird yet.
Does anybody know of such functionality for Thunderbird?

*t

PS: Initially I was happy to see a person (you) contribute to #762194 to
try to move it further, but given your seeming inability to finding
consensus I think the only effect of your contributions there is driving
the participants' adrenaline up and thus clouding their ability to
decide in a calm, thoughtful and differentiated manner.


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Plan to orphan cdn.debian.net

[Yasuhiro Araki]

Hi all,

As you may know, I have provided cdn.debian.net for geo mirror service for
older than apt (0.7.21 is released Apr. 2009) since Feb. 2008 (
http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2008/02/msg00700.html).

After apt 0.7.21 (i.e. squeeze or greater), it can handle HTTP redirect.
And, "http.debian.net" is started 2010, I believe it is better than
cdn.debian.net for current debian users.
Then, I would like to orphan cdn.debian.net and set DNS CNAME to
http.debian.net within a few months.

Could you show the opinion to support ancient apt, which is used in debian
older than lenny, by cdn.debian.net?


ARAKI Yasuhiro
a...@debian.org
cdn.debian.net/debian/

Re: Technical committee acting in gross violation of the Debian constitution

[Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult]

On 25.11.2014 16:29, Philip Hands wrote:

> How is it that Debian changing the default for something on some of

What about the enforced replace on dist-upgrade, which at least
produces lots of extra work and can easily cause systems being
unbootable ?


cu
--
Enrico Weigelt,
metux IT consulting
+49-151-27565287


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