Re: Why are you guys using user space utilities not written by us that seem to not work? Could you change who is the debian maintainer for us?
Steve Langasek wrote: Hans, On Mon, Feb 28, 2005 at 03:22:17PM -0800, Hans Reiser wrote: This is the second time that Ed has broken Reiserfs support in Debian, and each time it breaks Namesys looks bad, because users have no idea it is not us who broke our code. Thanks to Cliff we now have an idea where some mysterious reports of things breaking have their source. I can't see from the message below that this breakage has anything to do with Ed's work. The progsreiserfs package has a separate maintainer; it also has a release-critical bug open on it due to these known (to us) problems, and will not be included in the upcoming sarge release. It also has not been available in the Debian testing suite for some time, nor is it included with the Debian installer: anyone who pulls packages from Debian unstable without looking at any of these issues does so at their own risk. Incidentally, aside from having had its reiserfs resize support pulled because it depended on the buggy progsreiserfs implementation, qtparted has itself also been dropped from testing due to an unrelated RC bug. Thanks, Thanks for the clarification. What you are doing QC-wise is reasonable and appreciated. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why are you guys using user space utilities not written by us that seem to not work? Could you change who is the debian maintainer for us?
Joey Hess wrote: privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender and delete the message. Thank you. This message contains information which may be confidential and Please do not post mails to the debian mailing lists with signature blocks that are so obviously unenforceable. All mails posted to Debian mailing lists, with the exception of debian-private, are made available publically without exception. Thanks. mozilla does not do a good job of indenting signatures it seems when composing replies, I was not the origin of the words, apologies. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why are you guys using user space utilities not written by us that seem to not work? Could you change who is the debian maintainer for us?
Bill Allombert wrote: Hello Hans, you are concerned with people forking reiserfs and make Namesys looks bad, so I will assume you are also concerned by people forking Debian and make it looks bad. Touche. Linspire does some cool stuff, and is strong in the areas where Debian most needs help (simple users), but I understand you fully. Since I like both sides in the matter, I will say nothing more. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian Sarge Support
Can you folks at Debian tell me whether we are supported in Sarge? Thanks, Hans Ben Pont wrote: I am preparing to install Debian Sarge on my computer and am debating whether to partition Reiser4 or Ext3. I know Lindows supports Reiser4, Lindows being Debian based, but do you know if Sarge explicitly supports your format? Since Debian is a pain in the ass to install in the first place, I'd really like to get things right the first time and not have to repartition / reinstall if I discover Reiser4 isn't supported by Debian. Yes, I have tried getting answers from the Debian folks directly, but have gotten mixed messages. Any info from your side would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Ben __ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo debi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Why are you guys using user space utilities not written by us that seem to not work? Could you change who is the debian maintainer for us?
I can volunteer [EMAIL PROTECTED], the guy who writes our utilities (which work), for the task. This is the second time that Ed has broken Reiserfs support in Debian, and each time it breaks Namesys looks bad, because users have no idea it is not us who broke our code. Thanks to Cliff we now have an idea where some mysterious reports of things breaking have their source. Who is jltallon? adv-solutions.net has no information on its web page explaining about who they are. Is Debian intending to code fork ReiserFS? Are you guys that nuts? Vitaly, please pursue this matter with Debian. Hans ---BeginMessage--- Well, I have some new info this morning. We attributed the errors to hard drive problems to start with as well, but the errors were too consistent and appeared on too many machines simultaneously. Over the weekend we have collected many reports of people being unable to install using reiser3, but succeeding with reiser4. This eliminates both bad CD burns and hard drive errors, so I went looking for another cause. Recently we included qtparted which pulls in a Debian package called ``progsreiserfs'' instead of ``reiserfsprogs.'' We are investigating this as the cause of the problems right now. We are seeing a behavior with the ``progsreiserfs'' tools that one install will generate errors, another will succeed but take a long time, and a third will succeed in the normal amount of time. Same machine, same hard disk, same CDROM. I'm including Debian's description of these packages below. Package: reiserfsprogs Status: install ok installed Priority: optional Section: admin Installed-Size: 1072 Maintainer: Ed Boraas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Architecture: i386 Version: 1:3.6.19-1 Depends: libc6 (= 2.3.2.ds1-4), libuuid1 Description: User-level tools for ReiserFS filesystems This package contains utilities to create, check, resize, and debug ReiserFS filesystems. . NOTE: Releases of Linux prior to 2.4.1 do not support ReiserFS on their own. Thus, these tools will only be useful with Linux 2.4.1 or later, or if your kernel has been built with the ReiserFS patch applied. This patch can be found in the appropriate kernel-patch-version-reiserfs packages. . Homepage: http://www.namesys.com/ zz:~# apt-cache show progsreiserfs Package: progsreiserfs Version: 0.3.0.4-4 Architecture: i386 Priority: extra Section: admin Maintainer: Jose Luis Tallon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Depends: libc6 (= 2.3.2.ds1-4), libreiserfs0.3-0 (= 0.3.0), libuuid1 Conflicts: reiserfsprogs Provides: reiserfsprogs Size: 34236 Installed-Size: 156 MD5sum: 57feec6fc2b48d125e755e0a2ab31bb0 Description: Tools for manipulating ReiserFS filesystems progsreiserfs is a collection of tools for manipulating ReiserFS filesystems. There are tools to create, check, resize, tune and copy ReiserFS filesystems. . These tools differ from the standard Namesys ReiserFS tools in that they use libreiserfs to do their work. Filename: pool/p/progsreiserfs/progsreiserfs_0.3.0.4-4_i386.deb Hans Reiser wrote: Clifford Beshers wrote: We recently rewrote our installer to use a custom program that can stream a compressed iso9660 image file and unpack it to disk. Previously it used rsync. Everything seemed to be fine, but when we started running it on many machines, we started encountering errors like the ones shown below, the output of dmesg. At first I suspected it might be that the kernel hadn't re-read the partition table, but on several installs we did not create or modify that table. Anyone have any guesses as to what is going wrong? Again, this is reiser3. hda1: rw=0, want=116654088, limit=50058477 attempt to access beyond end of device hda1: rw=0, want=116916232, limit=50058477 attempt to access beyond end of device hda1: rw=0, want=117178376, limit=50058477 ReiserFS: hda1: warning: sh-2029: reiserfs read_bitmaps: bitmap block (#6258688) reading failed ReiserFS: hda1: warning: jmacd-8: reiserfs_fill_super: unable to read bitmap The above look like hardware errors from the disk drive. There have been rsync related emails on this list, but let's start with a working disk drive, ok? It is remotely possible that the above could be a failure to reboot after using fsync NTFS volume version 1.2. NTFS-fs warning (device hda2): load_system_files(): Volume is dirty. Will not be able to remount read-write. Run chkdsk and mount in Windows. ReiserFS: hda1: found reiserfs format 3.6 with standard journal ReiserFS: hda1: using ordered data mode ReiserFS: hda1: journal params: device hda1, size 8192, journal first block 18, max trans len 1024, max batch 900, max commit age 30, max trans age 30 ReiserFS: hda1: checking transaction log (hda1) ReiserFS: hda1: Using r5 hash to sort names ReiserFS: hda1: warning: Created .reiserfs_priv on hda1 - reserved for xattr storage. Adding 1049592k swap on /mnt/install/boot/linux-swap.swp. Priority:-1 extents:215 ReiserFS: warning: is_leaf: item location seems wrong (second one): *3.6* [7 32 0x1
new credit printing mechanism now present in reiserfsprogs
it now prints two random credits rather than all of them, and credits for the developers are in place. suggestions about how to improve this while preserving the credits (e.g. printing them at a different stage of mkreiserfs, etc.) are welcome. -- Hans
Re: new credit printing mechanism now present in reiserfsprogs
Yury Umanets wrote: On Wed, 2003-07-23 at 12:15, David B Harris wrote: (That's a really long recipient list - does this need only go to reiserfs-list@namesys.com and [EMAIL PROTECTED]) On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 11:45:09 +0400 Hans Reiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: it now prints two random credits rather than all of them, and credits for the developers are in place. suggestions about how to improve this while preserving the credits (e.g. printing them at a different stage of mkreiserfs, etc.) are welcome. If mkreiserfs was slower, I would suggest printing them at the start of the program. It gives people something to read while they're waiting for it to finish. (They would probably be more likely to read it, too.) It takes less than 4 seconds on a regular file of 410M here, though, so that's not a whole lot of time. Does it take longer on bigger filesystems? Lots of people are making many-gigabyte filesystems these days, so perhaps that really is a good idea. mkreiserfs creates bitmaps, and bitmap count depends on partition size, so it will take longer time on bigger partitions. Let's try it David's way. Change it and upload it to the website. -- Hans
Re: If Debian decides that the Gnu Free Doc License is not free...
Oleg Drokin wrote: Hello! On Mon, Apr 21, 2003 at 12:25:11PM +0400, Hans Reiser wrote: If someone wants to create a boot program and/or screensaver that picks a random OS component to describe the authors of at boot time, that would be nicest of all. BTW, I just thought about it again and the screensaver code is here already ;) There is screensaver that displays random fortunes (executes fortune(6)). Create fortune's database consisting of credits information and you are done. Also lots of systems execute fortune at login time. Insert credits database in the list of default databases (or run fortune -a) and you will get credits info for random stuff from time to time ;) Now we need to convice all the distromakers and create a way in which programs being installed add their credits to the common database. Bye, Oleg Would debian be willing to do this as the default screensaver? I think it would be great if it did. -- Hans
Re: If Debian decides that the Gnu Free Doc License is not free then I will be honored to join Stallman and the FSF in the not free section of your distro
Anthony DeRobertis wrote: Consider that an Evil Company, say, starting with the letter 'M', could apparently make its changes to the documentation of a GFDL-licensed document near-proprietary by adding invariant sections and cover texts that are unconscionable to the original author. Something like an invariant section on how the original author's coding style resembles the intelligence of the infamous paper clip. And a cover text that Linux Sucks. Why is this a problem? Seems to me that it is their right to do so, if they make a contribution that nobody else wants to be without, they have earned the moral right to insult the original author. -- Hans
Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian
Ed has graciously agreed to restore the credits, and I thank Debian for its respect for the wishes of the original author in regards to prominently crediting those who have contributed. -- Hans
Re: If Debian decides that the Gnu Free Doc License is not free then I will be honored to join Stallman and the FSF in the not free section of your distro
Anthony DeRobertis wrote: On Wed, 2003-04-23 at 11:00, Hans Reiser wrote: Anthony DeRobertis wrote: [...] could apparently make its changes to the documentation of a GFDL-licensed document near-proprietary by adding invariant sections and cover texts that are unconscionable to the original author. [...] (Note: I gave a specific example that involved insulting the original author of the software) Why is this a problem? [...] At least too me, it seems to defeat the purpose of copyleft. If I didn't mind if the document was made such that I couldn't use the modifications, I would license it under a much simpler, much more direct license like the MIT X11 one. Or just disclaim copyright interest in it (i.e., put it in the public domain). If I were to use the GFDL, my choices would be to not be able to use the changes (so much for copyleft) or start an invariant section war, where I add an invariant rebuttal. That would give you a lot of incentive to write code that others would want to keep. Sounds good to me.;-) You have a choice of incentives: 1) money 2) ego 3) none. You are choosing 3). I know you won't choose 1). I suggest you choose 2), for all the reasons articulated in the Cathedral and the Bazaar. If you are feeling sympathetic you might consider that persons like me are concerned that vendors will strip all information about who wrote ReiserFS out except for copyright notices that none of their users will see, slap their brand identity onto it, and ship, depriving me of all credit for my work on their product. I say this, because that is exactly what slimy marketeers at startups do, and they do it a lot. Look at how many companies ripped off squid. -- Hans
Re: If Debian decides that the Gnu Free Doc License is not free then I will be honored to join Stallman and the FSF in the not free section of your distro
Andrew Saunders wrote: On Wed, 23 Apr 2003 22:46:24 +0400 Hans Reiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One could argue that if the thief had been unable to re-brand the code, they never would have used it. If they had to have a prominent notice advertising We did not write this, Hans Reiser did (only 24 times as long) every time their application started, they wouldn't touch the code with a barge pole. Thus, the code is now in places where it wouldn't have been before. This means greater penetration, albeit by the back door. If they want to leave off the credits, they can pay me for the privilege, or live with only the credit they deserve for their work. People who can't live with my credits on work they sell to others should pay. Look at how many companies ripped off squid. And yet, to the best of my knowledge, Squid have not changed their license to prevent this recurring in the future. There is no need to change the license, the companies violated the GPL, they didn't just strip the credits. The need is to enforce the license, and nobody is bothering. UC Santa Cruz University lawyers are not very interested in earning their living. I reported it to them some time ago -- Hans
Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian
Glenn McGrath wrote: What if the full statment was shown once on installation, but not every time the program is used, would that be an acceptable compromise to you ? Glenn Maybe, but not very many people run mkreiserfs frequently. For most users, mkreiserfs is performed once on installation, or close enough to not matter a lot. -- Hans
If Debian decides that the Gnu Free Doc License is not free then I will be honored to join Stallman and the FSF in the not free section of your distro
I find it unspeakably ingrateful to Stallman that some of you begrudge him his right to express his (discomforting to some) views to all who use his software, and to ensure that they are not removed by those suits who are discomforted. As far as I am concerned, I have no desire to have ReiserFS distributed for free by anyone who removes the GNU manifesto or similar expressions from Stallman's work (or my own) and redistributes it. It is simply a matter of respect that is due the author. ReiserFS will be converting to the Gnu Free Doc License for its documentation. I look forward to the release of GPL V3 which will hopefully cover fair crediting of code as well as documentation, and stem this rising tide of plagiarism and political bowlderization by distros. I will be happy to work with the FSF in recruiting other software authors to this task of stemming plagiarism and political bowlderization by distros before it becomes a bigger problem than it is now. Hans
Re: If Debian decides that the Gnu Free Doc License is not free...
Jarno Elonen wrote: the frontend's About box? About buttons are an abomination, like the term open source, they gutlessly pretend to be what they are not in an attempt to please by dissembling.;-) First time users go to them expecting to find out what the program does, and instead they get the name of the author and remain just as puzzled about what the program itself is for as they were before. I hate them. I never click on them. I want the same visibility of credits for reiserfs that movies give for their actors. I don't want the distro choosing how they are displayed because some distros do things like create boot time splash screens that tell about themselves instead of the authors, and so I have to say that their track record demonstrates that they cannot be trusted with that task. I think the authors should be the ones to decide how to list the credits. Any end user should of course be free to delete all the credits he wants to. If someone wants to create a boot program and/or screensaver that picks a random OS component to describe the authors of at boot time, that would be nicest of all. -- Hans
Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian
It is really a question of, do you respect the authors? Stallman never imagined that anyone in the free software business would be other than a gentleman. Then the OS rather than just the kernel got named Linux by those who found his politics inconvenient to their business, and the k got dropped from all the kde utilities by persons not the authors of them, and it is a lot easier to imagine that presumptuous persons who are not gentlemen would take it upon themselves to remove credits because they find it inconvenient that the authors be given the attention and notice rather than the distros. Feel free to make the credits more CPU efficient, reformat them to fit a screen, animate them, anything that adheres to the academic attribution spirit of respecting those who contributed years of their lives at the cost of substantial reductions in their lifetime incomes so that users (I don't care in the least about distros) could be free to modify the code, and the poor able to afford the same information infrastructure as all the rest of us. If you want to add attributions (perhaps mentioning the inventors of balanced tree algorithms, etc.), or add a statement that Debian feels the listed persons didn't deserve the credit and somebody else did, I will respect any honest endeavor in that regard (and maybe even use the improvements in the crediting in what we distribute on our website). Simple deletion is hard to respect though. You'll note that the changes don't significantly affect me (as long as it is called ReiserFS I am getting at least my share of credit). It mostly affects all persons other than me who aren't getting their fair share of credit as it is. Academia, while it respects the right to modify knowledge, has never respected failures to attribute, and hopefully most of you do not either once it is brought to your attention. Now, another person has suggested that this was due to an error rather than deliberate action. I would be happy to apologize if this is the case. I am not sure it is. Please inform me whether Debian respects the authors of free software, as much as Stallman naively but understandably imagined everyone would without any need for anything to be said about it. I wish Stallman would hurry it up with GPL V3. He probably wishes people were gentlemen enough that it would not be needed. He does not spend much time with marketeers wearing suits and counting brand presence in dollars I think, sigh. I really did not expect this from Debian of all distros You should not imitate RedHat in this. -- Hans
plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian
Please explain your reasons for removing the credits and attributions from the reiserfs utilities in violation of our copyright. You'll note that ReiserFS anticipated the GNU GPL V3 by including clauses that forbid removal of credits in its license, and for a long time I have been telling Stallman that he needs to get V3 of the GPL out the door. By the way, does Debian support as a matter of principle the decrediting of Stallman and KDE by RedHat? I had really expected this from RedHat, not Debian, when I wrote those clauses. In the academic world, this is called plagiarism. In the academic world, knowledge is shared but fairly credited. The GPL is born of the academic tradition. -- Hans
