Re: GCC 4.1 now the default GCC version for etch
On Fri, Jun 16, 2006 at 11:15:32PM +0200, Falk Hueffner wrote: Henning Makholm wrote: Another related bug type that I found lurking in my packages when I investigated the warnings in this list, is trying to format a size_t value with a %u or %d format string, which will break if size_t is 64 bits (unless the actual number is small and it is the last argument and the endianness of the architecture happens to match its stack growth direction). Since any sane ABI pads arguments to word size, this is only a problem on big endian 64-bit architectures (that is, no current release architecture). odd.. there appears to currently be a sparc release of debian, http://www.debian.org/ports/sparc/ and it appears to claim to support some kind of limited 64bit support. There are some unstated things from the page that I would like to bring to the table as relevant: 1. since it is sparc, I would presume debian/sparc is big endian 2. since the amd64 arch now has 64bit applications (?) I would guess that at some point, the debian sparc folks may follow suit. So to deliberately ignore an issue, becuase we dont support big-endian 64bit *right now*, would seem to be rather short sighted to me. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: please fix your RC bugs
On Mon, Aug 01, 2005 at 08:45:10AM -0500, Steve Greenland wrote: [1] Useful fragment for cross platform shell scripts: #!/bin/sh # Do the Solaris Dance: if [ ! -d ~root ] ; then exec /usr/xpg4/bin/sh $0 $@ fi Umm.. Ick it woudl be better as if [ -x /usr/xpg4/bin/sh ] ; then -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: please fix your RC bugs
[1] Useful fragment for cross platform shell scripts: #!/bin/sh # Do the Solaris Dance: if [ ! -d ~root ] ; then exec /usr/xpg4/bin/sh $0 $@ fi sigh.. okay, my correction had bugs, too :-) better as if [ ! -d ~root -a -x /usr/xpg4/bin/sh ] ; then -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Accepted kdrill 6.4-2 (sparc source all)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Format: 1.7 Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 15:32:11 -0500 Source: kdrill Binary: kanadic kdrill makedic Architecture: source sparc all Version: 6.4-2 Distribution: unstable Urgency: medium Maintainer: Philip Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] Changed-By: Philip Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] Description: kanadic- Katakana and hiragana drill files for KDrill kdrill - A Kanji drill and dictionary program makedic- A dictionary compiler for KDrill Changes: kdrill (6.4-2) unstable; urgency=medium . * This is a non-feature release. This is just to unstick the autobuilders Files: ab429b7ec9ca87aff0df7b5b8e56b911 621 text optional kdrill_6.4-2.dsc 3e8a7474b95b6a66c934c910a0a772d8 11080 text optional kdrill_6.4-2.diff.gz cf5bec0f2a854cbf46eb3a3907d58e49 9834 text optional kanadic_6.4-2_all.deb f01849e2ead462da0d82e90178a7f752 73386 text optional kdrill_6.4-2_sparc.deb 95514059b5dfe2d57a5ee59b2d87de48 9862 text optional makedic_6.4-2_sparc.deb -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (SunOS) iD8DBQFCOb9UCk6PQhM61moRAhs8AKCySAKZK/NJsCqnWxYkFncYv6NKzACfaDbm RPHDFcYkp75mOQ+NSdbo/kU= =MCaS -END PGP SIGNATURE- Accepted: kanadic_6.4-2_all.deb to pool/main/k/kdrill/kanadic_6.4-2_all.deb kdrill_6.4-2.diff.gz to pool/main/k/kdrill/kdrill_6.4-2.diff.gz kdrill_6.4-2.dsc to pool/main/k/kdrill/kdrill_6.4-2.dsc kdrill_6.4-2_sparc.deb to pool/main/k/kdrill/kdrill_6.4-2_sparc.deb makedic_6.4-2_sparc.deb to pool/main/k/kdrill/makedic_6.4-2_sparc.deb -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Accepted filter 2.6.3-1 (sparc source)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Format: 1.7 Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 01:31:48 -0500 Source: filter Binary: filter Architecture: source sparc Version: 2.6.3-1 Distribution: unstable Urgency: medium Maintainer: Philip Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] Changed-By: Philip Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] Description: filter - A program that filters local email via forward/pipe Changes: filter (2.6.3-1) unstable; urgency=medium . * New upstream release * Security bug fixed upstream * New feature for matching, alphasubject * (Closes #124616 grammar bug) * (Closes #287048 security bug) Files: a63b5452784a272a0ef8f1f6545190db 553 mail optional filter_2.6.3-1.dsc c9cebafd5b3d5fa7e6e915dd49a7b9dd 158970 mail optional filter_2.6.3.orig.tar.gz c7fa0797b98a249989383f99dd1e4cf2 10177 mail optional filter_2.6.3-1.diff.gz 335a1e025ca70ea361875d89986173ab 29030 mail optional filter_2.6.3-1_sparc.deb -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (SunOS) iD8DBQFBy76CCk6PQhM61moRAtH2AKCNYNvfdQ385qRwE3OBCPhOjQPk8QCghmcj WHLnRV3rfoFMoX65dqnAj8E= =5Pdv -END PGP SIGNATURE- Accepted: filter_2.6.3-1.diff.gz to pool/main/f/filter/filter_2.6.3-1.diff.gz filter_2.6.3-1.dsc to pool/main/f/filter/filter_2.6.3-1.dsc filter_2.6.3-1_sparc.deb to pool/main/f/filter/filter_2.6.3-1_sparc.deb filter_2.6.3.orig.tar.gz to pool/main/f/filter/filter_2.6.3.orig.tar.gz -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Accepted kdrill 6.3.1-1 (sparc source all)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Format: 1.7 Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 07:55:54 +0200 Source: kdrill Binary: kanadic kdrill makedic Architecture: source sparc all Version: 6.3.1-1 Distribution: unstable Urgency: low Maintainer: Philip Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] Changed-By: Philip Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] Description: kanadic- Katakana and hiragana drill files for KDrill kdrill - A Kanji drill and dictionary program makedic- A dictionary compiler for KDrill Changes: kdrill (6.3.1-1) unstable; urgency=low . * New upstream release * Config script now *really* works (closes #167374) * Postinst for config script and dpkg * Depends on debconf (closes #167375) * Depends on libxaw7-dev (closes #169979) * Added in attempt to use po-debconf * Migrated pixmaps to new official location of /usr/share/pixmaps * Added spanish po translation to test the po-debconf usage contributed by Javier Fernandez-Sanguino Pen~a Files: adbc0d2bd08737f774a25032cd7a8c59 627 text optional kdrill_6.3.1-1.dsc b2d7f46138e5072149aa251682687209 236644 text optional kdrill_6.3.1.orig.tar.gz 6c44b21b09da3514802f754477da4148 18126 text optional kdrill_6.3.1-1.diff.gz ddb361c4d707cda2aa30ce366cf29085 9680 text optional kanadic_6.3.1-1_all.deb dbb7d5a0c8f1dac3042060a6777c73e0 73376 text optional kdrill_6.3.1-1_sparc.deb df2cebdf715ec07d37b690d53afa4719 9672 text optional makedic_6.3.1-1_sparc.deb -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (SunOS) iD8DBQFAMwwHCk6PQhM61moRAgg6AJwKdFPjoPu9K+1GF6ByqrmDIxh/4QCfWgVd VB/TRQLYAIEPFLqQV/opR5Y= =ehez -END PGP SIGNATURE- Accepted: kanadic_6.3.1-1_all.deb to pool/main/k/kdrill/kanadic_6.3.1-1_all.deb kdrill_6.3.1-1.diff.gz to pool/main/k/kdrill/kdrill_6.3.1-1.diff.gz kdrill_6.3.1-1.dsc to pool/main/k/kdrill/kdrill_6.3.1-1.dsc kdrill_6.3.1-1_sparc.deb to pool/main/k/kdrill/kdrill_6.3.1-1_sparc.deb kdrill_6.3.1.orig.tar.gz to pool/main/k/kdrill/kdrill_6.3.1.orig.tar.gz makedic_6.3.1-1_sparc.deb to pool/main/k/kdrill/makedic_6.3.1-1_sparc.deb -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Accepted filter 2.4.2-1 (i386 source)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Format: 1.7 Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 08:14:43 +0200 Source: filter Binary: filter Architecture: source i386 Version: 2.4.2-1 Distribution: unstable Urgency: low Maintainer: Philip Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] Changed-By: Philip Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] Description: filter - A program that filters local email via forward/pipe Changes: filter (2.4.2-1) unstable; urgency=low . * New upstream release * made lines comparison work * added mailinglist header check, to look for x-mailing-list: * made if(xx != yy) work again * added resend command Files: 6013bada5fde915db3b6785e61b33d66 552 mail optional filter_2.4.2-1.dsc f44768ecd0a9ad1b17734867f97bf6b7 115463 mail optional filter_2.4.2.orig.tar.gz 508bbb13dad4483ecc92d0aedbde324d 9382 mail optional filter_2.4.2-1.diff.gz 66c5943678a511d9b7221cd55849f47e 27500 mail optional filter_2.4.2-1_i386.deb -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (SunOS) iD8DBQE/aAzPCk6PQhM61moRAlt0AKCEk/qEldxVEU8zZz83RPGKFMpscgCgslhr NsC0Rcxhi9ZDLKZOfdACx8E= =B+bw -END PGP SIGNATURE- Accepted: filter_2.4.2-1.diff.gz to pool/main/f/filter/filter_2.4.2-1.diff.gz filter_2.4.2-1.dsc to pool/main/f/filter/filter_2.4.2-1.dsc filter_2.4.2-1_i386.deb to pool/main/f/filter/filter_2.4.2-1_i386.deb filter_2.4.2.orig.tar.gz to pool/main/f/filter/filter_2.4.2.orig.tar.gz -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Accepted kdrill 6.2.1-1 (i386 source all)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Format: 1.7 Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 07:55:54 +0200 Source: kdrill Binary: makedic kanadic kdrill Architecture: source i386 all Version: 6.2.1-1 Distribution: unstable Urgency: low Maintainer: Philip Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] Changed-By: Philip Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] Description: kanadic- Katakana and hiragana drill files for KDrill kdrill - A Kanji drill and dictionary program makedic- A dictionary compiler for KDrill Changes: kdrill (6.2.1-1) unstable; urgency=low . * New upstream release: * Improved radkfile loading * allow split-up of search string in kanji * improved radical search window Files: d2600c7880464f5c1597589b4413c730 614 text optional kdrill_6.2.1-1.dsc d820fac601edd321336cb8d983962735 229255 text optional kdrill_6.2.1.orig.tar.gz 2046358f0d26671a63dd5d42776f5ea9 17328 text optional kdrill_6.2.1-1.diff.gz 0c69d6f2878b3508aa55c2535bc6c7cd 9530 text optional kanadic_6.2.1-1_all.deb 429aec614ac9d7229f9508cfb6ea5d4e 64076 text optional kdrill_6.2.1-1_i386.deb 4e80890688055a561572713d682845bb 9522 text optional makedic_6.2.1-1_i386.deb -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (SunOS) iD8DBQE/ZVkqCk6PQhM61moRAnhHAJ9v0RiyFIY0UpcxCwlqlBEw17wfvQCfX7+e QDSYxLquhuyBVx9UE2+lZ7I= =Bkhl -END PGP SIGNATURE- Accepted: kanadic_6.2.1-1_all.deb to pool/main/k/kdrill/kanadic_6.2.1-1_all.deb kdrill_6.2.1-1.diff.gz to pool/main/k/kdrill/kdrill_6.2.1-1.diff.gz kdrill_6.2.1-1.dsc to pool/main/k/kdrill/kdrill_6.2.1-1.dsc kdrill_6.2.1-1_i386.deb to pool/main/k/kdrill/kdrill_6.2.1-1_i386.deb kdrill_6.2.1.orig.tar.gz to pool/main/k/kdrill/kdrill_6.2.1.orig.tar.gz makedic_6.2.1-1_i386.deb to pool/main/k/kdrill/makedic_6.2.1-1_i386.deb -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: W3C recommendations
On Mon, Apr 14, 2003 at 07:38:00AM +0200, J.H.M. Dassen (Ray) wrote: (Personally, I'd vote against a proposal to make it mandatory. We have more than enough release-critical issues at the moment - cleaning up documentation to conform completely to W3C standards and recommendations is probably one of those 80/20 things, taking a lot of development effort for little user-visible gain) depends on WHICH standards and recommendations. If the standard is just HTML 4.01 transitional, and the test criteria is must pass through validator.w3.org, then it shouldnt be particularly onerous.
keyserver.debian.org.com
Has anyone noticed that someone has pseudo-hijacked keyserver.debian.org.com Is this supposed to be there? It seems to be kinda worrying that someone has registered that hostname. Particularly since I found it by doing a dns lookup of keyserver.debian.org and the host I'm on, fell through to automatically adding a .com to it, and finding that address.
Re: keyserver.debian.org.com
On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 10:15:47AM -0800, John H. Robinson, IV wrote: ... Particularly since I found it by doing a dns lookup of keyserver.debian.org keyring.debian.org is the secret sauce perhaps the appropriate person for debian might put in a CNAME record?
Re: keyserver.debian.org.com
On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 03:29:31PM -0500, H. S. Teoh wrote: I have only ever seen browsers do this kind of nonsense. I have never seen nslookup, dig, or host, attempt such lame lookup methods before. live and learn: -- Script started on Tue Dec 3 14:14:30 2002 bash-2.03$ uname -a FreeBSD bolthole.com 4.4-RELEASE FreeBSD 4.4-RELEASE #7: Fri Aug 9 08:53:32 MDT 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/src/sys/compile/VKERN i386 bash-2.03$ nslookup keyserver.debian.org Server: bolthole.com Address: 0.0.0.0 Non-authoritative answer: Name:keyserver.debian.org.com Address: 216.234.246.140 bash-2.03$ exit exit Script done on Tue Dec 3 14:14:44 2002 -- FYI: the box is my virtually-hosted domain -- I dont own it.
Accepted kdrill 6.0-1 (source all alpha)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Format: 1.7 Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 02:01:02 -0400 Source: kdrill Binary: makedic kanadic kdrill Architecture: source alpha all Version: 6.0-1 Distribution: unstable Urgency: low Maintainer: Philip Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] Changed-By: Philip Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] Description: kanadic- Katakana and hiragana drill files for KDrill kdrill - A Kanji drill and dictionary program makedic- A dictionary compiler for KDrill Closes: 165131 166229 Changes: kdrill (6.0-1) unstable; urgency=low . * New upstream release * Adds 'radical' search method, using radkfile from xjdic . Closes: #165131: kanjidic no longer gzipped in debian Closes: #166229: adjust depend on kanjidic package to be rev-specific Files: 5923e5ef835f1c512b8ff3e9d87954f3 659 text optional kdrill_6.0-1.dsc b8548cf231edd8c7f70ee908085ef070 225242 text optional kdrill_6.0.orig.tar.gz 9d4ac4f2230455c608955122bd880680 16972 text optional kdrill_6.0-1.diff.gz 2ce86116c5ad546340db761f6dcdc1c5 9474 text optional kanadic_6.0-1_all.deb 6d5f0eace5f8d1bfd3a2b01d2ceeac8b 78472 text optional kdrill_6.0-1_alpha.deb 5366d7959b98961344b25b9af5c3d029 9898 text optional makedic_6.0-1_alpha.deb -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.3 (SunOS) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAj2+OnYACgkQCk6PQhM61mpLAQCfX9wfk5Bk6NwmeFCYsuoSRbu/ KOkAni1AZEao5S3zD/WW0VJ64iY89iEI =oDgj -END PGP SIGNATURE- Accepted: kanadic_6.0-1_all.deb to pool/main/k/kdrill/kanadic_6.0-1_all.deb kdrill_6.0-1.diff.gz to pool/main/k/kdrill/kdrill_6.0-1.diff.gz kdrill_6.0-1.dsc to pool/main/k/kdrill/kdrill_6.0-1.dsc kdrill_6.0-1_alpha.deb to pool/main/k/kdrill/kdrill_6.0-1_alpha.deb kdrill_6.0.orig.tar.gz to pool/main/k/kdrill/kdrill_6.0.orig.tar.gz makedic_6.0-1_alpha.deb to pool/main/k/kdrill/makedic_6.0-1_alpha.deb -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Accepted kdrill 5.12.2-1 (source all alpha)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Format: 1.7 Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 08:00:10 +0200 Source: kdrill Binary: makedic kanadic kdrill Architecture: source alpha all Version: 5.12.2-1 Distribution: unstable Urgency: low Maintainer: Philip Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] Changed-By: Philip Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] Description: kanadic- Katakana and hiragana drill files for KDrill kdrill - A Kanji drill and dictionary program makedic- A dictionary compiler for KDrill Changes: kdrill (5.12.2-1) unstable; urgency=low . * New upstream release * made cut-n-paste work under debian * added some extra search filtering Files: 91a3c6078685175503dd1e61741d79c1 668 text optional kdrill_5.12.2-1.dsc 3707f5124f4ae5355a7bdd527e7972fa 184590 text optional kdrill_5.12.2.orig.tar.gz 7568ff4dce35e6736dced6190d95f078 12578 text optional kdrill_5.12.2-1.diff.gz 156dd1501a6549f74d5cadbc7cebe0d0 9344 text optional kanadic_5.12.2-1_all.deb de40c2b574560c4139419a607d223557 75690 text optional kdrill_5.12.2-1_alpha.deb 88c6a494e91893046c170bd7d4d6f8cb 9752 text optional makedic_5.12.2-1_alpha.deb -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.3 (SunOS) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAj1zAJ4ACgkQCk6PQhM61mqK4wCfcUtgV6EaloSFLjFqpyaFi+E2 sqMAmwea9vaNmiLEO/qap9expdveXvXv =j2n2 -END PGP SIGNATURE- Accepted: kanadic_5.12.2-1_all.deb to pool/main/k/kdrill/kanadic_5.12.2-1_all.deb kdrill_5.12.2-1.diff.gz to pool/main/k/kdrill/kdrill_5.12.2-1.diff.gz kdrill_5.12.2-1.dsc to pool/main/k/kdrill/kdrill_5.12.2-1.dsc kdrill_5.12.2-1_alpha.deb to pool/main/k/kdrill/kdrill_5.12.2-1_alpha.deb kdrill_5.12.2.orig.tar.gz to pool/main/k/kdrill/kdrill_5.12.2.orig.tar.gz makedic_5.12.2-1_alpha.deb to pool/main/k/kdrill/makedic_5.12.2-1_alpha.deb -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Recommending non-free software
On Wed, Apr 17, 2002 at 04:50:51PM +0200, Stefan Schwandter wrote: ... And it doesn't make sense if I compile the program with lesstif, as long as upstream doesn't want to support it, because if people file bug reports against snd in debian, and I forward it to him, he'll most probably not want to deal with them - because it simply is not recommended to compile snd with lesstif. I dont see that as enough reason against compiling it with lesstif, when and if it works. If a bugreport in snd is due to a bug in lesstif, then refile it as a bug in lesstif. simple. The author would be perfectly justified in not wanting to deal with it, because it wouldnt be a bug in his software. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: bugs + rant + constructive criticism (long)
[ Craig Sanders writes ] On Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 11:26:25AM -0800, Philip Brown wrote: And in the case of the debian mailing lists, you should reply to the list. bullshit. some replies should go to the list, and some replies should be private. it's up to the person writing the reply to make that decision, not the list software. But the primary point of a mailing list is for discussion ON THE LIST. Do you want to disagree with that? So headers should be optimized for group discussion. Replying to individuals is a secondary function. setting reply-to back to the list just makes it difficult (or in some cases impossible) to reply privately. ... however reply-to munging by list software does have the serious disadvantage of replacing any Reply-To header created by the original author of a message. So what, if the mailing software rewrites From: to have any reply-to information from the original sender? Then the information is still available. the Reply-To header exists for the *person* who originally sent the message to be able to direct replies to their preferred destination. it is not there so that mailing lists can screw with it. So your argument is A mailing list is not a person, so it can't use reply-to:. Bad argument. [http://faqs.org/rfcs/rfc822.html] rfc822, section 4.4.3, EXPLICITLY MENTIONS text message teleconferencing groups (eg mailing lists) as potential users of the reply-to header, expressly for the purpose of having reply direct email to the list And finally, example A.3.3 EXPLICITLY shows that reply-to is NOT exclusively for who wrote the message. It is for Where do you want replies to normally go to
Re: mailing-list mgmt (was: Re: bugs + rant + constructive criticism (long))
[ Thomas 'Mike' Michlmayr writes ] On Thu, Jan 04, 2001 at 10:43:05 -0800, Philip Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So headers should be optimized for group discussion. Replying to individuals is a secondary function. not at all. replying to individuals is an essentail function that is no less important than replying to the list. just because your MUA can't make the distinction without major help does not mean that everybody else with a capable MUA has to suffer. You are distorting facts. You are not talking about capable MUAs, you are talking about MUAs which happen to share the features I like. Features which are not official standards like rfc822 is. And finally, [rfc822] example A.3.3 EXPLICITLY shows that reply-to is NOT exclusively for who wrote the message. It is for Where do you want replies to normally go to my ML-software do not have a builtin AI to determine where replies of a specific recipient should normally go. Very funny. But not relevant. The primary purpose of mailing lists like debian-devel, is for discussion ON THE LIST. This is implicitly a part of the debian Developer's Reference, about Dont Cc people on the mailing list unless they specifically ask for one. It also explicitly says, Anyone who posts to a mailing list should read it to see the responses. [http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/developers-reference/ch-servers.html#s-mailing-lists] Therefore, replies, aka responses to email on debian-devel should normally go to the list.
Re: bugs + rant + constructive criticism (long)
[ D-Man writes ] ... Try mutt and its L command. The L command means list-reply, aka only send a message to the list, not to all recepients. It also sets a header flag so that other well-behaved MUA's don't send you an extra copy of their replies since you will get it on the list anyway. guess what? not everyone uses mutt. not everyone should. Reply-to is meant to send a message back to the person who wrote the first one, not to someone they wrote the message to. reply-to is meant to direct where you should send replies to. And in the case of the debian mailing lists, you should reply to the list.
Re: bugs + rant + constructive criticism (long)
[ Miles Bader writes ] Riku Voipio [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Which reminds me, why doesn't this list just set: reply-to: debian-devel@lists.debian.org Because it's completely wrong. Doing so takes the choice of who to reply to (the sender or the list) out of the hands of the reader [at least without annoying manual editing of addresses]. As opposed to the current scheme, which also requires annoying manual editing of addresses to reply to the list, if your mailreader does the reasonable thing and assumes you want to reply to the original sender of the message, in liu of a reply-to header. A comparison: Your message came to me with the following headers of interest: Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Miles Bader [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Miles Bader [EMAIL PROTECTED] Resent-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Resent-Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Resent-From: debian-devel@lists.debian.org X-Loop: debian-devel@lists.debian.org Whereas another mailing list I'm on, that does it more reasonably, has the discussed From: User Name [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I think there are also ways to make the default reply go to the list, but allow reply to all to send to the list AND the original sender, but i dont remember the structure offhand.
Re: bugs + rant + constructive criticism (long)
[ Miles Bader writes ] [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Philip Brown) writes: As opposed to the current scheme, which also requires annoying manual editing of addresses to reply to the list, if your mailreader does the reasonable thing and assumes you want to reply to the original sender of the message, in liu of a reply-to header. Only if you're using a MUA too old or disfunctional to be worth discussing. All reasonable mail readers support at least `reply to sender' and `followup'/`wide-reply' commands, and the latter should do what you want. I guess YOUR mailreader is too old or disfunctional to be worth discussing I did not request you to Cc me. But you replied to the list AND me. The issue is how to simplify a default action of reply to the list, and ONLY the list Presumably your own mailreader does not have a single key for reply to debian-devel, not to original sender function, which is why you chose the alternative of reply to all. Which is NOT desirable. By making Reply-To: point to the list, you make these two different commands do the same thing, thus depriving the user of the choice. There is NO depriving of choice. If the recipient user wants to send to the original sender, there is nothing stopping them. Hopefully, everyone on debian-devel is fully capable of a little typing, in the rare case that an individual reply is warranted. But 99% of replies should be to the list. Therefore, we should optimize for that case.
Re: bugs + rant + constructive criticism (long)
[ Nathan E Norman writes ] ... On Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 12:11:21PM -0800, Philip Brown wrote: I guess YOUR mailreader is too old or disfunctional to be worth discussing I did not request you to Cc me. But you replied to the list AND me. ... Since you've set the Reply-To: header, wouldn't the reasonable person expect that you'd like a reply as well as the list? Oops. I'd forgotten about that :-) But that's because my ISP wont let non-root folks set the From: header when calling sendmail through a command-line mailer. So IF someone wants to email me directly, I want them to use that address. But I do NOT want people to Cc me on mailing lists. Phil, you miss the point. Please note that you set your Reply-To: header. Now please imagine a scenario where you can't control your From: address (you're at work possibly?): it's set to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you definitely DO NOT want replies to come to your work address (perhaps there's a fascist regime or something). So, you set your Reply-To: header to your favorite account: [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Cool - now when people reply they'll be sending to the right address! Oh, but wait, that damn list you're subscribed to rewrites the Reply-To: header for its own purposes! Now you're going to get a bunch of email going exactly where you don't want it: you've been deprived of your right to set an email header. This case can be solved fairly easily by the mailing list software using the simplified reply precedence order itself, and doing a little header rewriting. - If only From: is present, leave it alone, and just add Reply-To - If Reply-To: is present, rewrite From:, AND add Reply-To For example: [original message to list] From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailing list resends out as] From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-to: debian-devel It shouldn't be a problem that the [EMAIL PROTECTED] address goes away, because after all, if joe wanted that address to really be used, he wouldn't have set the reply-to in the first place.
Re: bugs + rant + constructive criticism (long)
[ Miles Bader writes ] [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Philip Brown) writes: I guess YOUR mailreader is too old or disfunctional to be worth discussing I did not request you to Cc me. But you replied to the list AND me. Because that is the most useful action for mail followups in the absence of other information. If you (or the mailling list software) had added appropriate headers, my followup would have gone to the list only. For instance, if I followup to any of Branden Robinson's posts, they go to the list only. that is because both you and he are using special software. That's akin to someone saying Well, when I send email to my friend Bob, HE never complains about ms-tnef stuff. So what if we're both using MS Exchange? You're perfectly free to start using MS Exchange too...
Re: bugs + rant + constructive criticism (long)
[ D-Man writes ] A different list that I am on does the Reply-To munging. This means that if I hit group-reply (when I use an MUA that doesn't understand lists) the list will get 2 copies : 1 in the To and 1 in the CC field. Is this really what you want? Getting double mail on the list? There are (at least) two things wrong with that scenario: 1. the mailing list software is setting Reply-To: identically to the From: header, when it didn't need to. If it ommited the redundant Reply-To: header, you wouldn't have seen a problem. 2. The mail program should have been smart enough to figure out Hey, the Cc is a duplicate, I dont need it If I try to send a private off-list reply to someone, I can't. If I hit reply, it goes to the list. Sure I can type their address in the to field, but then I have to open a new window, open the mail, find the address in the headers, etc, etc. Exactly. You CAN do it. This can't is rubbish. You are free to use whatever MUA you want, but don't complain to the rest of us if it is broken. Funny, you just did exactly that. If your mailreader was better, you would have a better functioning group-reply. Similarly, if your mailreader was better, it would be easier for you to look at headers, and cut-n-paste the address of the person you want to privately reply.
Re: bugs + rant + constructive criticism (long)
[ D-Man writes ] On Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 02:30:39PM -0800, Philip Brown wrote: Funny, you just did exactly that. If your mailreader was better, you would have a better functioning group-reply. Umm, no I wasn't complaining about my mailreader, but one that I don't use now. I solved the problem by getting a better one. ... No matter how easy it is to see the headers, you can't easily tell the MUA that you want to insert a particular address unless you have first added it to your address book. Unless of course, you are using a beter mailreader, that doesnt requires you to add addresses to an address book before sending someone email. Why follow your own advice, and get yet another better mailreader, hmmm? Maybe the fact is that there IS NO best mailreader for everyone, and mailing lists should do their best to accommodate as many as possible. Which is why other mailing lists use reply-to.
Re: menu-policy: education
[ Ben Armstrong writes ] So, for subsections perhaps: ... Education/Language qvocab I'd love an Education/Language section too. I'm not really happy with any of the Menu choices available for my kdrill program, which is a vocabulary quiz program,and dictionary for kanji. The previous maintainer had it put under Applications/Text or something, and I haven't seen anything else more appropriate.
