Server rental (OT)

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi !
I'm in the process of renting some servers.
Would you suggest I configure my 3 x 2 TV HDD as a RAID group ?
Or would this be somewhat useless because the service provider (who
rents the rack) already does some maintenance and preventive work ?
Thanks
-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development

Re: Firmware - what are we going to do about it?

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,

On 2022-04-20 08:39, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside, le mer. 20 avril 2022 08:32:13 -0400, a 
> ecrit:
>> Answer bellow this awful piece of text from someone who doesn't know how
>> to make a space between line.
> 
> For information, reading mails with a speech synthesis doesn't
> necessarily render spaces between lines.
> 
> So yes, people using them don't actually "see" the need for such
> spacing.
> 
When you talk or read a text out loud, you make pauses ?
Why wouldn't they apply then you write a text ?
Are we again in the world of "Everyone must adapt because I'm different" ?

We ain't gonna go back to this WOKE thinking and "positive
discrimination bullshit", please no !
> Samuel
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development

Re: Firmware - what are we going to do about it?

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

bwt !
1st I've always saw Debian having brltty support from the start
2nd Just install the firmware instruction here and your problem will be
solved.
https://wiki.debian.org/Firmware

Stop blaiming other people when the problem is a lack of research on
your part and expectation all work "out of the box" in all situation.

Take destiny into your own hand.

On 2022-04-20 08:32, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> Answer bellow this awful piece of text from someone who doesn't know how
> to make a space between line.
> 
> On 2022-04-20 06:04, Devin Prater wrote:
>> I recently tried to install Debian onto my new laptop. It's an HP
>> Pavilian (can't remember the exact model sorry) with an AMD Rizon 5500
>> processor with integrated Radion graphic. All seemed to work well, until
>> I came to the detecting Internet stage of the install. It couldn't
>> detect my Wi-fi card. So then, I found the Non-free section and got the
>> CD version? I guess that's what I should have gotten? The DVD one is the
>> live environment right? See how confusion this can be? Anyway, I booted
>> that up, pressed s then Enter cause I'm blind, then began the install
>> again. The same thing happened. So apparently even the non-free images
>> don't contain all of the drivers. I know a driver for my card exists,
>> since Fedora has it. So, since Debian "won't work" on my system (that's
>> what a user *will* think), I went back to Windows, where I have all the
>> few games blind people can play, the MUD clients with sound packs,
>> Twitter/Mastodon/Telegram clients that were made by the blind, for the
>> blind, a screen reader with wide community support, and a DE with
>> developers focusingon accessibility. Of course, that's just my use case
>> as a blind person. Others may focus on the graphics card, Wi-fi, sound
>> card, power management (My battery will never run out of power according
>> to acpi), or CPU management.
>> Ah well. Maybe Ubuntu will have the Wi-fi card. I mean they are a
>> company but when a group of regular people don't give something that I
>> can even install without plugging in my phone, finishing install,
>> somehow finding the right driver for my Wi-fi card, and then finally
>> being able to use it, then the first thing people will do is go find
>> something else. They'll say "Okay well Debian is just for servers and
>> 'FossBros'," shake their head, and move on.
>> This is from a user's perspective. It's hard enough to get them to want
>> to use Linux. A lot of people don't even know you can change the
>> operating system on your computer! So then for them to try Debian, which
>> is probably one of, if not the most, accessible of all distros thanks to
>> our few Debian Accessibility team, and then find that their network card
>> isn't going to work, they'll run back to Windows. And to be clear, for a
>> blind person, the only thing Linux has over Windows at this point is
>> that you can print text *and* images to a Braille printer. You can't do
>> that in Windows without expensive software. All the games, software for
>> the blind, Twitter/Mastodon/Telegram clients, all that is on Windows. So
>> for a blind person, switching from all that is gonna be even harder. So
>> the first sign of resistance will send them back.
>> Also, should we have to work for Debian? Shouldn't it make our computing
>> life easier by at least including the stuff we need to use all parts of
>> our computer? Besides that, with computers becoming even more "secure"
>> with Microsoft working on a chip, AMD and Intel having their stuff,
>> we'll *have* to include nonfree stuff in Debian eventually. Might as
>> well do it now to make users' lives a little easier for practice.
>> Another thing I just thought of, I wonder if, when we find hardware in
>> the installer that we don't have drivers for, if we can search for
>> drivers on apt, including the nonfree section, and ask if the user wants
>> to install them? The user would probably have to connect their phone for
>> the Wi-fi bit, but then all the stuff could easily be installed.
>> Devin Prater
>> r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com <mailto:r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 20, 2022 at 2:49 AM Pirate Praveen > <mailto:prav...@onenetbeyond.org>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> 2022, ഏപ്രിൽ 19 5:57:46 AM IST, Steve McIntyre > <mailto:st...@einval.com>>ൽ എഴുതി
>> >This tension extends to our installation and live m

Re: Firmware - what are we going to do about it?

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Answer bellow this awful piece of text from someone who doesn't know how
to make a space between line.

On 2022-04-20 06:04, Devin Prater wrote:
> I recently tried to install Debian onto my new laptop. It's an HP
> Pavilian (can't remember the exact model sorry) with an AMD Rizon 5500
> processor with integrated Radion graphic. All seemed to work well, until
> I came to the detecting Internet stage of the install. It couldn't
> detect my Wi-fi card. So then, I found the Non-free section and got the
> CD version? I guess that's what I should have gotten? The DVD one is the
> live environment right? See how confusion this can be? Anyway, I booted
> that up, pressed s then Enter cause I'm blind, then began the install
> again. The same thing happened. So apparently even the non-free images
> don't contain all of the drivers. I know a driver for my card exists,
> since Fedora has it. So, since Debian "won't work" on my system (that's
> what a user *will* think), I went back to Windows, where I have all the
> few games blind people can play, the MUD clients with sound packs,
> Twitter/Mastodon/Telegram clients that were made by the blind, for the
> blind, a screen reader with wide community support, and a DE with
> developers focusingon accessibility. Of course, that's just my use case
> as a blind person. Others may focus on the graphics card, Wi-fi, sound
> card, power management (My battery will never run out of power according
> to acpi), or CPU management.
> Ah well. Maybe Ubuntu will have the Wi-fi card. I mean they are a
> company but when a group of regular people don't give something that I
> can even install without plugging in my phone, finishing install,
> somehow finding the right driver for my Wi-fi card, and then finally
> being able to use it, then the first thing people will do is go find
> something else. They'll say "Okay well Debian is just for servers and
> 'FossBros'," shake their head, and move on.
> This is from a user's perspective. It's hard enough to get them to want
> to use Linux. A lot of people don't even know you can change the
> operating system on your computer! So then for them to try Debian, which
> is probably one of, if not the most, accessible of all distros thanks to
> our few Debian Accessibility team, and then find that their network card
> isn't going to work, they'll run back to Windows. And to be clear, for a
> blind person, the only thing Linux has over Windows at this point is
> that you can print text *and* images to a Braille printer. You can't do
> that in Windows without expensive software. All the games, software for
> the blind, Twitter/Mastodon/Telegram clients, all that is on Windows. So
> for a blind person, switching from all that is gonna be even harder. So
> the first sign of resistance will send them back.
> Also, should we have to work for Debian? Shouldn't it make our computing
> life easier by at least including the stuff we need to use all parts of
> our computer? Besides that, with computers becoming even more "secure"
> with Microsoft working on a chip, AMD and Intel having their stuff,
> we'll *have* to include nonfree stuff in Debian eventually. Might as
> well do it now to make users' lives a little easier for practice.
> Another thing I just thought of, I wonder if, when we find hardware in
> the installer that we don't have drivers for, if we can search for
> drivers on apt, including the nonfree section, and ask if the user wants
> to install them? The user would probably have to connect their phone for
> the Wi-fi bit, but then all the stuff could easily be installed.
> Devin Prater
> r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Apr 20, 2022 at 2:49 AM Pirate Praveen  > wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 2022, ഏപ്രിൽ 19 5:57:46 AM IST, Steve McIntyre  >ൽ എഴുതി
> >This tension extends to our installation and live media. As non-free is
> >officially not considered part of Debian, our official media cannot
> include
> >anything from non-free. This has been a deliberate policy for many
> years.
> >Instead, we have for some time been building a limited parallel set of
> >"unofficial non-free" images which include non-free firmware. These
> non-free
> >images are produced by the same software that we use for the
> official images,
> >and by the same team.
> >
> >There are a number of issues here that make developers and users
> unhappy:
> >
> > 1. Building, testing and publishing two sets of images takes more
> effort.
> 
> Can we reduce the tests? Do we really need to test both images for
> all cases?
> 
> > 2. We don't really want to be providing non-free images at all, from a
> >    philosophy point of view. So we mainly promote and advertise
> the preferred
> >    official free images. That can be a cause of confusion for
> users. We do
> >    link to the non-free

Re: Keep both images but stop pretending no-free is unofficial

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

On 2022-04-20 04:06, Andrey Rahmatullin wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 20, 2022 at 01:25:31PM +0530, Pirate Praveen wrote:
>> Similarly, I think it would be reasonable for someone to want to provide
>> entirely free Debian media along with a libre laptop.
>
> Does this exist in the real world?  Which hardware would such a system
> contain?

 liberated.computer it is refurbished and some components like wifi cards 
 replaced so it works with 100% free software.
>>>
>>> Intel Core i5-3320M CPU (dual-core, four threads, 3rd Gen)
>>>
>>> So no.
>>>
>>
>> What is no here? This project don't exist or they don't want to provide a 
>> libre image?
> Intel CPUs contain non-free microcode. Using them even implies enabling
> the Debian non-free repo to get security fixes for it.
> Intel GPUs reportedly don't work good enough, or at all, without non-free
> firmware, according to the surveys done during the bullseye freeze.
> 
>> Debian's free image works on these laptops and if we make only non-free 
>> images they won't be able to provide a fully free image. 
> Eh, Debian's free image works on a lot of hardware, especially when you
> don't need to download anything during the install (e.g. because you use a
> DVD image or don't install a GUI), the installed system, on the other
> hand...
> 
> But I agree that technically it's fine "to provide entirely free Debian
> media along with a libre laptop" in this case.
> 
I think you lack pretty much of seeing more than you own self and use case.
I've used plenty of laptop without making a mess, sometime by using a
external Wifi card or simply choosing wisely.

Now, regarding your complain on the microcode. I think it's useless to
have a conversation regarding this subject with you because having a
global view seems out of bound for your mind.

Yes microcode are copyrighted blob. So run your computer without using
microcode update and do a change of CPU every time a potential bug is
found in a CPU.

You know what microcode does ? If so explain to me how it could be
possible to have a CPU with microcode in the open-source without having
more risk than benefits ? Now we'd see hacking done on the CPU
micro-code itself because anyone could sign it. Dumb bell.

You've now got your solution. What are you asking for ? We provide a OS,
we don't change the world to make it suit your need.

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development

Re: Another round of open questions

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,
Answer bellow,

On 2022-03-20 12:42, dpl-voter wrote:
> Hi Andriy and others,
> 
> Andriy Grytsenko mailto:and...@rep.kiev.ua>> wrote:
>> Thanks for the comment. It is so, exactly. The war came to an active
>> state, Russian nazis launch missiles over our country, trying to conquer
>> and set up marionette government. Our Army proven to be good enough to
>> fight them but many civilians already dead after attacks which include
>> prohibited weapons such as thermobaric bombs. Sadly.
> 
>> Thanks a lot, I am more or less safe, my city district is far away from
>> any major points so I hear explosions (as our air defense forces safely
>> shut down all the incoming missiles from Russia) far away from here all
>> the time. And I hope for war to be ended soon as Russians do eventually
>> have their forces eliminated. No help is needed for now.
> 
>> All you can do, I think, is to pray and to help our forces with weapons,
>> which many countries already do actually.
> 
> How are you? Hope you're fine. Have you received all the weapons and
> solders we already sent you? Yavorovsky military training ground tragedy
> is painful, but one should learn from it. By the way, if Russian forces
> are all eliminated by now, why do you ask for more weapon, do you want
> to kill all Russian civilians too?
> 
> And here are some questions to DPL candidates:
> 
> How do you plan to address Russian aggression? Will Russian be banned
Why ban Russian contribution ? Are individual citizen responsible in
anyway for what's happening ?
Even more that Russia is a huge pool for competent developer.

I'd love to visit Russia and learn better the Russian language.
Or simply seek political asylum...(as a joke, because I think it would
be impossible).

> from Debian development? Will you allow Russian users to use Debian? Do
It would be something really bad to take a political standpoint in this war.
> you plan to add some funny jokes for Russian users, like as follows:
That would be childish and stupid to do so.
> 
> - https://github.com/medikoo/es5-ext/commit/28de285ed433b45113
> 
> - https://github.com/vuejs/vue-cli/issues/7054
> 
> - https://github.com/RIAEvangelist/node-ipc/issues/233
> 
> 
> And some more questions for a wider audience:
> 
> 1. Have you heard about Neonazism ( Azov Battalion, Aider) in Ukraine?
Yes I did, was the subject of many investigation mostly on French TV.
Also appeared in the news, was something that happened with most of the
revolution pushed upon by "Centre for democracy endowment, aka CIA
funds" and George Sorrow. Same as the rise of radical Islam after the
fall of some regime in Africa or middle-east.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SBo0akeDMY (BBC Newsnight)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEKQsnRGv7s (Far right group risk
overthrow Ukraine - BBC)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hE6b4ao8gAQ
Ukraine: On patrol with the far-right National Militia - BBC Newsnight

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REKHrhfQQOc
Fascisme en toi de fond (Swiss TV)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiBXmbkwiSw
Ukraine's far-right children's camp: 'I want to bring up a warrior'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMMXuKB0BoY
Vice News - Out of control, Ukraine Rogue Militia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKvNla8V8I4
Hidden face of Ukraine War (with Jean-Luc Scaufausser and other european
deputy) Part 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jGdU5WRSN4
Part 2

-- We don't talk much of them now because this would justify Putin's
intervention --
> 2. Have you ever heard them saying that they gonna kill all Russian
> speaking people?
Yes I saw on TV (on Vice News) a Ukrainian soldier from one of the
militia now part of the military, he called the "Rusky" and said it's
their "Dumb Brother".
Also seeing the deputy of Slovoba going to "arrest separatist" in
Eastern Ukraine with his own militia was somewhat scary. Simply search
on YouTube "Vice News - Russian roulette, hunting separatist in Eastern
Ukraine".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi575J_wYdM
> 3. Have you ever heard Indian media showing Ukrainian leaders saying
> they will send nukes to Moscow if they get in Nato?
Not for this one.
> 4. Do you know about Donbas?
Industrial region in Eastern Ukraine, comprise many Oblast with the big
city of Donestk and Lugansk.
After the started to build their own government in the end of 2014, they
were visited by Jean-Luc Schaffhauser (was the envoy from pope Jean-Paul
II to Moscow), who acted as a election observer.
> 5. Have you ever heard 14000 Russian speaking people were killed In
> Donbas by Ukrainian Army?
Didn't know for this number but can be mostly possible.
> 6. Have you ever seen the mass grave of Russian speaking children In Donbas?
Yes, if you look at "Anne-Laure Bonnel" who's a teacher at the national
arts university of France, she explain it real nice here.

https://www

Re: Question Re: Advertising in Packages

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,

On 2021-08-15 10:16 p.m., Antonio Russo wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I have a question that I originally posed in debian-vote, but was directed
> here instead:
> 
>"Can one advertise non-free services in a Debian package?
> Is doing so a violation of some Debian policy?
> 
> Again, if this is the wrong venue, I'm sorry.
> 
> The details are filed against firefox[-esr], #992208 [1] (which was
> summarily closed without very much discussion).  The non-free services in
> question are Amazon, YouTube, Facebook, Reddit, and Twitter.
> 
> I would propose we replace these with things like lemmy, mastadon, peertub,
> matrix, framasoft, fsf.org, and debian.org.  However, if those become
> contentious (and please don't consider this an endorsement by me of every
> single one of them), we could just remove all of these pre-seeded
> "top sites".
> 
Without regard to the first part of this question (relating to what is
allowed or not). I think as a free and opensource community, it would be
better having links to free services. For sure Google remain Google as a
search engine, but there's other that still do a great job.

Same applies to Youtube and Peertube, Mastodon for social media, etc.

And for sure, replacing Amazon by debian.org is a good thing. This way
people would get a easy access to the main project site (or even a link
to the documentation).

> - Antonio
> 
> 
> [1] https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=992208
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Re: Debian package manager privilege escalation attack

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,

On 2021-08-12 2:25 a.m., Brian Thompson wrote:
> On Thu, 2021-08-12 at 11:19 +0500, Andrey Rahmatullin wrote:
>> On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 01:12:37AM -0500, Brian Thompson wrote:
>>> Would you agree that there is an issue with sudo access that is
>>> enabled
>>> by default on most Debian and Debian-based distributions? The bug
>>> may
>>> not be in apt, but it definitely lives somewhere.
>> Do you think "sudo access" itself is a "privilege escalation attack"?
> 
> I do not. I think that the possibility of dangerously configured sudo
> access is a vulnerability.
>
So this is not a *privilege escalation attack* but more a warning to all
user that "using sudo can be used to do stuff as root" ?

We are so lucky that someone wrote a article on the subject and you
shared it with us.

But this is not a privilege escalation attack, it's something that is
planned and known.

1. Read apt documentation, it is said that script will be executed as root.
2. Read sudo documentation, it is said that allowing user access to some
program as root should be as limited as possible.
3. Read sudo documentation, the goal is allowing to run a root.

Now if people start doing stuff they don't master than it's not
privilege escalation but much more something like another manifestation
of human stupidity. And this, there won't be a number of article
sufficient to make people change.

If I'd have apt access under sudo and would like root access, this would
be the last method I'd use. There's so many more, starting by modifying
a existing package and adding a backdoor to it, the updating the system.
Adding SSH keys, adding a line to sudoers, etc.

This is only a article made to get people onto a website and see
publicity or whatever goal the author set. There's nothing genuine in there.

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Re: merged /usr considered harmful (was Re: Bits from the Technical Committee)

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,

On 2021-07-20 10:07 p.m., Brian Thompson wrote:
> On Tue, 2021-07-20 at 21:13 -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside
> wrote:
>> Ended up with a 3 month useless discussion regarding if this would
>> give
>> a bad impression, that we need to use node for doing development.
>> Later on I was working on a plugin that treated huge amount of data.
>> So
>> I introduced Vue.JS, again a three month discussion with people
>> saying
>> it's a overhead, even after explaining that you can't always do
>> server
>> side processing and serve all the data at a time. Even if people
>> didn't
>> understand a word about the global concept and the system as a whole,
>> they halted the project.
>> So I just let go my participation.
>> Now 4 years later, they are integrating Vue.JS and Node doing code
>> validation while development.
>>
>> One of the main reason some people don't want to invest time in FOSS
>> project is exactly because of that type of toxic situation that make
>> everyone look like crazy nut head.
> 
> I find it pretty crazy that you think FOSS is toxic, when in reality
> the only toxic thing about this situation was when you labeled a
> discussion as "useless".  They didn't want to use your technology stack
> four years ago.  Now they do.  Throwing a temper tantrum when you don't
> get your way isn't doing anyone else any favors. 
> 
You either cherrypicked or only took what you wanted in what I said.

So I'll do it again...

I was asked by one of the project manager to implement a new plugin that
would allow some machine learning and data processing (using chart with
plotly.js using database on a CMS).
To do so efficiently, I had to use some type of client side processing
and decided to use Vue.JS.

This didn't change nothing for anyone except me.

But all the developers started saying it wasn't good because it would
project the idea that we need to use Node to do development (false) or
that Vue.JS is needed for the CMS (false).

Most of the person talking about this were people who didn't have a clue
what they were talking about. Mostly people doing translation for text
string, HTML/CSS front end themes and such. Most of the time, when we
talked about PHP they would say "that they ain't developer".

For you information, I didn't throw a tamper tantrum, I simply felt that
my time would be better invested somewhere I could use my time in a
positive manner.

Having to explain that "It's not because there's a package.json file
that you'll need Node ecosystem. As there's already a .gitla-ci.yml and
you don't need to have a Gitlab runner on your PC to do development".
Having to explain that sending all the data at one time, when processing
thousands of record is not a possibility if you want to have a system
that can be scaled up. And much more...
This is time consuming and doesn't help much going a project forward.

It wasn't a technology stack that I've chosen but the one that was
requested by the project manager who paid me. But I had to deal with
those questions on the mailing list.

And I did get tired so went somewhere else...

So we we're in front of people that (like many) had a opinion but didn't
have much to support it.

I don't know many business we're we pass more time discussing about
solution than implementing them. Unless, I got it wrong, and FOSS
project are some type of IT consultant box ?

I come from health science and we do stuff, don't smoke butterfly powder
thinking about what would be the best in a ideal world. I don't think
about what's the best solution for a ideal world.

And if I was running Windows for the computer used for medical purpose
in my office, there was one reason : I didn't have nothing that made if
efficient for me to go Linux. All the advantage were overwhelmed by the
time consuming of process changing, staff training or simply because no
such solution existed.

If all the time wasted in fork was used to making project grow better
then it'd be long ago that we wouldn't see as many Windows.

> P.S. You may be the biggest hippocrit in these mailing lists.
> 
You don't have a clue who I am...
So let me put you in the box where it says "I talk about what I don't
know and think I'm s great".

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Re: merged /usr considered harmful (was Re: Bits from the Technical Committee)

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,

> Hi Holger, I would have expected a reply like this from you. I do still
> use Debian, some of my boxes are still Debian-based. Soon they will
> probably be converted to Devuan though. I do still contribute to
> Debian, mainly to Debian GNU/Hurd and Debian GNU/kFreeBSD. As long as
> these ports are still alive within Debian I won't go away.
> 

I'd love to know more about what made you switch to Devuan and what
could I also benefit from using Debian/kFreeBSD.
I used to have boxes on FreeBSD long time ago (6.0 I think).

Thanks

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Re: merged /usr considered harmful (was Re: Bits from the Technical Committee)

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,

On 2021-07-20 5:51 p.m., Holger Levsen wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 20, 2021 at 11:15:33PM +0200, Svante Signell wrote:
> [...]
>> Debian, the Universal Operating System was used some years ago!
> 
> Svante, fine. You are unhappy with Debian since years, you're not using it
> anymore, you are not contributing, this is debian-devel@ not debian-rant@,
> so please STFU.
> 
You are so nice with people who have a different opinion than yours.
This is really a example of someone who's mature.
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Re: merged /usr considered harmful (was Re: Bits from the Technical Committee)

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,

> It is really stunning that the Debian project, including the TC
> overrides the dpkg developer and maintainer Guillem, and still using
> dpkg for package management. Maybe Debian should switch to some other
> software, like rpm-based used by Fedora or even guix used by GNU?? Or
> perhaps the Debian project should come to senses with the force of
> things upon users and developers/maintainers without their approval
> (consensus-free)? 
> 
> Debian, the Universal Operating System was used some years ago!
> 

It's really the kind of problem that make Debian look like a crazy non
sense operating system. People using program options as a way to shout
their opinion to the world...
It's a problem with many FOSS project that benefits mainly from
volunteer work. Because they need to job done, they can't have any
coercion against developer (as a difference, your boss can impose you
things). This may be a good thing as it promote creativity and sometime
allow emergence of better practice.
But in other case, most of the time, it just give a bad look.

Reminds me of when I worked with the Tiki CMS project. I was using node
with some tools to do pre-processing of JS code and HTML validation. So
I added my package.json to the distribution, in case other developer
want it.
Ended up with a 3 month useless discussion regarding if this would give
a bad impression, that we need to use node for doing development.
Later on I was working on a plugin that treated huge amount of data. So
I introduced Vue.JS, again a three month discussion with people saying
it's a overhead, even after explaining that you can't always do server
side processing and serve all the data at a time. Even if people didn't
understand a word about the global concept and the system as a whole,
they halted the project.
So I just let go my participation.
Now 4 years later, they are integrating Vue.JS and Node doing code
validation while development.

One of the main reason some people don't want to invest time in FOSS
project is exactly because of that type of toxic situation that make
everyone look like crazy nut head.

Sometime we also have to accept choices we dislike (hey, we teach this
to kids).

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Re: merged /usr considered harmful (was Re: Bits from the Technical Committee)

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,

On 2021-07-20 3:30 p.m., Marc Haber wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Jul 2021 14:47:04 +0200, Svante Signell
>  wrote:
>> According to the dpkg developer and maintainer Guillem users can still
>> rescue their systems from merged-/usr-via-aliased-dirs with the aid of 
>> dpkg-fsys-usrunmess(8), see 
>> https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/Dpkg/FAQ#Q:_Does_dpkg_support_merged-.2Fusr-via-aliased-dirs.3F
> 
> The naming of the utility alone gives me the impression that we have a
> dpkg maintainer who has gone to war with the rest of the distribution.
> I am not sure whether Debian should accept that.
> 
I think that the option "usrunmess" says pretty much the state of mind
regarding the person who named it this way.

Something like "usrunmerge" would be more realistic.
> Greetings
> Marc
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Re: merged /usr considered harmful (was Re: Bits from the Technical Committee)

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,

On 2021-07-18 7:21 p.m., Russ Allbery wrote:
> Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside  writes:
> 
>> Here's my actual config (with 2TB) and yes I have a separate /home
> 
>> What is tmpfs and why is it set to 3.2 GB ?
> 
> tmpfs is a RAM-backed temporary file system that is automatically used for
> paths like /run and /dev/shm that are supposed to be cleared on each
> reboot and hold only small files (or memory references, in the case of
> /dev/shm).
> 
> I see that you have your system configured to store /tmp on your disk.
> This is generally not recommended these days.  Storing /tmp in tmpfs is
> much faster for some applications and automatically achieves the desired
> and standard /tmp behavior of clearing it on reboot.  About the only
> reason not to use tmpfs is if you have a very memory-constrained system
> and don't want to use any member at all for memory-backed file systems.
> 
I had the belief that some software used /tmp for temporary file that
may grow many GB (example DVD creation).

I have 32 GB

>> And /dev have 16G free ? Where does this come from...
> 
> The size of the udev file system is essentially meaningless.
> 
>> I'm wasting some space with /tmp !
> 
> I agree with the other feedback that you are overpartitioning your disk.
> I used to do this back when I was first learning UNIX in the 1990s because
> it seems like a good idea and it does isolate one part of the system from
> another if it uses an excessive amount of space.  But what I found in
> practice, and what almost everyone who does this eventually finds in
> practice, is that this much partitioning drastically reduces the long-term
> flexibility of the system.  It requires you predict in advance what parts
> of the system will grow, and when you guess wrong, you end up with
> symlinks trying to move directories from a partition with no free space to
> another partition with free space, with all the complexity and breakage
> that can cause.
> 
> There are some technical reasons to separate /boot if you are using a file
> system for other partitions that isn't suitable for early boot (or if
> you're using cryptsetup or other file system layers).  /boot/efi is always
> a separate partition because of how it works.  Apart from those two
> special cases, the only reason to put something on a separate file system
> is if you have a clear and compelling reason why you expect a given file
> system to run out of space and you want to ensure that it cannot take
> space from other parts of the system.
> 
> This can be a good justification for putting /home on a separate partition
> *if* you are running a multi-user system.  But otherwise, separating out
> things like /var or /usr/local or /opt or /srv is more likely to cause you
> long-term headaches than it is to do anything useful.
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Re: merged /usr considered harmful (was Re: Bits from the Technical Committee)

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,

On 2021-07-18 6:17 p.m., Marco d'Itri wrote:
> On Jul 19, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside  wrote:
> 
>> So if I get it right...
> Except for /boot/, which may be required for technical reasons, there 
> is no need to further partition your file system unless you actually 
> have reasons to do it.
> 
>> One partiton for /boot
>> One partition for /usr
>> One partition for /usr/local (if you feel like it)
>> One / partiton that will contain not much stuff other than config files ?
>> One partition for /var (if you feel)
>> One partition for /opt, /srv ...
>> One partition for /tmp
> If you are aiming for overcomplexity then I think that you forgot /home.
> 
>> The root partition can be small as 16 Gb as it won't contain much ?
> If you create a partition for everything else as described here then 
> / will only contain /etc and /root, so even 1 GB will be enough.
> But again, I do not really recommend this.
> 
> I do not recommend to partition general purpose systems with less than 
> a few hundreds of GBs of allocated disk space.
> 

Here's my actual config (with 2TB) and yes I have a separate /home

What is tmpfs and why is it set to 3.2 GB ?
And /dev have 16G free ? Where does this come from...
I'm wasting some space with /tmp !

Filesystem  Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
udev 16G 0   16G   0% /dev
tmpfs   3.2G  2.1M  3.2G   1% /run
/dev/sda3   184G   70G  105G  40% /
tmpfs16G  163M   16G   2% /dev/shm
tmpfs   5.0M  4.0K  5.0M   1% /run/lock
/dev/sda5   262G   50G  199G  21% /var
/dev/sda4   175G   86M  166G   1% /tmp
/dev/sda888G   60M   83G   1% /usr/local
/dev/sda792G  3.6G   84G   5% /opt
/dev/sda10   92G   60M   87G   1% /srv
/dev/sda1   487M  3.3M  483M   1% /boot/efi
/dev/sda11  733G  649G   47G  94% /home
tmpfs   3.2G   84K  3.2G   1% /run/user/118
tmpfs   3.2G  124K  3.2G   1% /run/user/1000


-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Re: merged /usr considered harmful (was Re: Bits from the Technical Committee)

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hello (Hi) !

On 2021-07-18 5:07 p.m., Andy Smith wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I think all of this is quite clearly explained in:
> 
> https://salsa.debian.org/md/usrmerge/raw/master/debian/README.Debian
> 
> which is linked from:
> 
> https://wiki.debian.org/UsrMerge
> 
> If you think it's not then you should probably raise a bug against
> the usrmerge package with your suggested edits/clarifications.
>
I've read the link above plus the link to
https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/TheCaseForTheUsrMerge/

So if I get it right...

One partiton for /boot
One partition for /usr
One partition for /usr/local (if you feel like it)
One / partiton that will contain not much stuff other than config files ?
One partition for /var (if you feel)
One partition for /opt, /srv ...
One partition for /tmp

The root partition can be small as 16 Gb as it won't contain much ?

Am I getting this right ?

Here's my actual partition table (2TB HD)

udev 16G 0   16G   0% /dev
tmpfs   3.2G  2.1M  3.2G   1% /run
/dev/sda3   184G   70G  105G  40% /
tmpfs16G  163M   16G   2% /dev/shm
tmpfs   5.0M  4.0K  5.0M   1% /run/lock
/dev/sda5   262G   50G  199G  21% /var
/dev/sda4   175G   86M  166G   1% /tmp
/dev/sda888G   60M   83G   1% /usr/local
/dev/sda792G  3.6G   84G   5% /opt
/dev/sda10   92G   60M   87G   1% /srv
/dev/sda1   487M  3.3M  483M   1% /boot/efi
/dev/sda11  733G  649G   47G  94% /home

I currently have a 70G usage of the root partition.
Running Buster.

> Andy
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Re: merged /usr considered harmful (was Re: Bits from the Technical Committee)

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,

On 2021-07-18 5:07 p.m., Andy Smith wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> On Sun, Jul 18, 2021 at 04:31:11PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside 
> wrote:
>> My personal opinion is that Debian is going into a mostly "we got the
>> best idea in the world but forgot that not everyone implement things the
>> same way".
> 
> I recommend understanding the issue before putting forth an opinion.
> 
Maybe I shall correct what I said as it may be misunderstood.

Without regard to this specific issue, I seem to have noticed that the
Debian project has made some change in good faith, based on some
technological conception of what is the best. But in the end, most user
seem not to need those change and be a source of problem for most of them.

I've had hell of a mess to understand the change to SystemD.

Not so long ago I even learned that it caused a fork for a Debian
derivative called Devuan.

For me it was a huge departure from the KISS philosophy and I feel that
this "usrmerge" is going the same way.

I will take time to review what you have gave me as link and see what
will be my opinion after this.

>> I currently have a different partition for my /usr and this has been the
>> case since the end of 1990s when I started on Linux. Maybe I'm wrong but
>> I like it this way.
>>
>> Will the merge-usr cause myself problem ?
> 
> No. Not as long as you use an initramfs created by any of the
> supported Debian tools like initramfs-tools or dracut, which you
> will do unless you have gone out of your way to do something
> different.
> 
I've did many Debian install, using the standard installation software,
creating those partition from the "expert" choice of install mode. And
never had problem, I believe that the initramfs tools must be doing
their job.

> And regardless of merged-/usr, /usr on separate partition has not
> been supported in Debian without an initramfs since the stretch
> release in 2017.
> 
I've used Stretch with a separate /usr without much problem, as said above.

> I think all of this is quite clearly explained in:
> 
> https://salsa.debian.org/md/usrmerge/raw/master/debian/README.Debian
> 
> which is linked from:
> 
> https://wiki.debian.org/UsrMerge
> 
> If you think it's not then you should probably raise a bug against
> the usrmerge package with your suggested edits/clarifications.
> 
> Andy
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Re: merged /usr considered harmful (was Re: Bits from the Technical Committee)

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,

On 2021-07-18 5:31 p.m., Svante Signell wrote:
> Hi, is it OK to forward your mail to debian-devel. I don't think
> mailing to debian-user will have any effect on this issue?
>  
Sure ! Honestly it's my mistake to have sent it to debian-user.
I get everything in one mailbox. I need to have this sorted out and use
one mailbox for each mailing list.

Thanks

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Re: Unique kernel with my own backup of all Debian repositories

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

On 2021-06-14 12:55 p.m., Marc Haber wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Jun 2021 07:23:45 -0700, John E Petersen
>  wrote:
>> Thanks Paul, but I'm having a hard time finding the precise version I would
>> like to archive on any ftp mirror. My scrape is actually working quite
>> correctly now, though, since I added a sleep in there -- the source and
>> machine-installation instructions are tidily tucked away in different
>> directories, with names, locations, and success/failure logged into a
>> key-value (more of a dictionary-ish, really) text file. I get that an ftp
>> request is more civilized, but this scrape is quite convenient for me. If
>> it is more palatable to the community, I can increase the sleep time in the
>> loop to a couple of minutes or even a few or more, and throw it on one of
>> my raspberry pis and forget about it for a while, since I'm not in a major
>> hurry.
> 
> rsync is incomprehensible rocket science?
> 

When you expect to build a "new" Debian kernel (Hurd ? FreeBSD ?)
because there's too much government agent involved in Debian, that you
complain there's a security hole in Ubuntu (but we are in Debian here)
because your hosting provider's web panel doesn't allow you to connect
without first passing in a SSH key... Then let me say, that pretty much
all of your life is... rocket science ! And you failed much of it.

I still can't understand why would it be easier to build a custom system
to scrape a website than to use either :
apt-mirror / debmirror / aptly
OR
rsync -avH rsync.debian.org/debian/... ./mylocalrepo
-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Re: Unique kernel with my own backup of all Debian repositories

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,

On 2021-06-14 8:13 a.m., Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 12, 2021 at 04:47:26PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside 
> wrote:
>> This is why your address is being blocked and will continue to do so.
> 
> Writing something like this runs the risk of giving the impression that
> you are somehow involved in, or authoritative for, the official Debian
> mirrors. To avoid any doubt, it would be best in future to state clearly
> that you don't, and aren't; in fact it would be best to be clear that
> you aren't involved in developing Debian at all (unless that changes).
> 

I only repeated in a different way what was already explained (fair use
for servers not meant to be sucked up).

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Re: Unique kernel with my own backup of all Debian repositories

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,

On 2021-06-12 8:19 p.m., Paul Wise wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 12, 2021 at 8:15 PM John E Petersen wrote:
> 
>> If I find it is possible to simply download the entire collection, without 
>> having to host a mirror, I may very well go that route.
> 
> That is definitely possible, there are two sides to every Debian
> mirror: 1) downloading Debian 2) making the files available on the
> web. The second part is definitely optional and many Debian folks do
> just the first part in order to serve their personal machines with
> Debian packages.
> 
>> If I continue the scraping route, would adding wait time in my loop between 
>> downloads make my repeated access less of a problem? I would like to let it 
>> run until it is finished. It is tedious to restart my scrape periodically.
> 
> Please use the ftpmirror method recommended by Étienne, it is more
> likely to produce a correct result than scraping and much less likely
> to get blocked. The Debian archive is only updated every six hours, so
> it would be a waste of bandwidth to update more often than that.
> 
I think you got this one on the wrong side...

This guy is trying to copy all the source code repository as he seem to
have explained.

Well it's not really easy to understand what he's trying to do but he
seem to have the idea to build a Debian derived distribution "that has
the government and other controlled-entity removed" (?).

Kind of awkward to build a Debian derivative because you ain't happy
with the web panel that Digital Ocean offers you to manage Ubuntu and
feel Ubuntu too opinionated.

Maybe shall try a plain Debian first !

Was saying there's a security hole because you can't send your private
key to a server without first doing some manipulation in a web browser.

1st : I don't send my private key, I send the public one. And using scp
work pretty good.

2nd : There's no web interface for key management that is mandatory with
Debian (but there's some software usable as web interface for management).

3rd : His plan are to build a "kernel" but as I asked him why replace
the Linux kernel, and even more, how many person do you have for such a
huge work.

We already gave him hints on using debmirror / ftpmirror / apt-mirror /
aptly...



-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Re: Debian mirror / developer machine

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,

> If you are talking about a separate repository to the existing
> repository, that sounds like a Debian derivative. Personally I would
> encourage people to contribute to Debian rather than starting new
> derivatives, except for experiments that will be re-integrated into
> Debian.
> 
> https://wiki.debian.org/Derivatives
> 
No, I ain't talking about derivatives of Debian. I talking about a
mirror by itself, like all the other one around (ftp.xx.debian.org).


>> Also, I could allow it's use for development purpose if some people need
>> it. Some time we simply don't want to run a compilation run on our own
>> computer because it create a lag and we don't have other computer to use.
> 
> The existing options for building software on other people's computers
> are documented here:
> 
> https://wiki.debian.org/Hardware/Wanted#Available_hardware
> 

I didn't know about this infrastructures. I'm more talking about
allowing some people on a individual basis the use of the machine to do
development.

Example, developer named Joe would like to have his workspace available
thru SSH and don't have the funds to have a server online (or don't want
to bother).

> In my opinion, the best way to give back is to be involved in
> producing Debian; testing, packaging, bug fixing etc and there are
> many ways to do that, some documented here:
> 
> https://www.debian.org/intro/help
I'll take a look at this.

For now, I need to be able to do a complete re-installation of my Debian
instance without using the automated installer offered by
OVH/One-provider. This give me only one partition of 2 Tb in RAID-0
(Mirror) 3x2 To.

I need more than one partition and don't really need this level of RAID.
Something like RAID-5 (parity) would work great to be fail safe.

I'm good to do the installation and use debootstrap to build the server
but there seem to be problem with either doing the setup for network
upon reboot or else... I have some trouble shoot to do on how will it
get to work. I don't have access to the machine via KVM so I need to
work using the "rescue" mode. That is a network boot that give me access
to a shell, partition the disk, format the partition, mount the
partition, run debootstrap, setup grub, configure the network and... reboot.

It's the first time I have to build a server without access to KVM...

Thanks ;-)

> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Debian mirror / developer machine

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi !
I'm currently renting a server in a rack.
It's not overly powerful but still does the job.
I'd like to setup a Debian repository for the community but maybe this
will take too much bandwidth. Yes, what I got is unlimited but I must
respect a fair use policy. So if someone has some stats about the
requirements this may help out.

Also, I could allow it's use for development purpose if some people need
it. Some time we simply don't want to run a compilation run on our own
computer because it create a lag and we don't have other computer to use.

If someone know other way to give back to the community or have
suggestions then I'm open.

Thanks
-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Re: Unique kernel with my own backup of all Debian repositories

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

There's a thing in the world called reasonable use.
If you scrape a whole bunch of repository in a short time, this will put
a heavy load on server not meant to be used this way.

This is why your address is being blocked and will continue to do so.
As already written by other people too, there's no such authority that
could change this for you. So you'll have to find a way to lower the
resources used for your actions.

One way to do so is put a delay in between the requests, like already
suggested.

I'd give you a hint of using the debmirror software (or aptly /
apt-mirror) as this is meant to create a local copy of the Debian
packages repository, you can add options for getting source code too.

Maybe you shall learn how to copy a public key using scp and entering a
password. (because you keep the private one on your own computer, but
you seem to do it the other way around).

Don't confuse between Ubuntu itself and the interface offered by Digital
Ocean, two different thing. They only offer a control panel, accessible
from the web without any link to Ubuntu (or Debian or whatever).

If you don't believe what I say, then install a Ubuntu box on your local
network and copy a key directly to it. And be assured, it will work
using scp. First time you'll need to enter the password and after the
key is added to authorized_keys then it will be okay.

Not please, save us from those delusion style affirmation such as


> server on Digital Ocean, for example, using Ubuntu 18.04. Unless they
> are just picking on me in particular, you will find some changes in

You are far from being so much of importance, please get back to earth
if you want some help.

And use the proper words for what you mean.

If I say, I want to write a new kernel based on Debian then it means I
want to replace the "Linux kernel". There's no other kernel, unless you
talk about the FreeBSD based version of Debian or the Mach version of
Debian, both who use a different Kernel than the Linux one.

The basis for communication is a common language or the desire to use a
recognized and standard protocol for communication. If I use word
because they seem great but are out of their meaning, then it's
pointless to communicate.

Hope you get this one now.

On 2021-06-12 3:52 p.m., John E Petersen wrote:
> Dear *Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside, *I would appreciate it if you would
> stay out of conversations which you do not understand. Your rude
> response was not well-received. Are you suggesting there are no
> government employees in the open source community? Such an assertion is
> naive at best.
> 
> The green light I'm requesting is to keep my ip addresses from being
> blocked as I scrape the Debian repositories. Please work on your reading
> comprehension skills. I am requesting permission from the community as a
> whole, which is why I am using a mailing list which addresses the
> developers of said community.
> 
> Existing servers should be fine. However, I invite you to create a new
> server on Digital Ocean, for example, using Ubuntu 18.04. Unless they
> are just picking on me in particular, you will find some changes in
> protocol, such as the inability to upload a private key within a bash
> shell without first making configurations in a web browser. This is a
> new security hole, in case you were not aware.
> 
> Again, work on your reading comprehension skills. I said I am developing
> a unique kernel, based on Debian Linux... I said nothing about writing
> an entire Linux kernel from scratch... Furthermore, I never said
> anything about copying code... Plus, I said credit would be given where
> it was due, if I even ever decided to distribute it.
> 
> It is really a simple task to modify and personalize a kernel. Perhaps
> you should try before you criticize someone you have never met before.
> Additionally, you have zero knowledge of my relationship with any
> government, so do not assume you know anything about me, besides what I
> just told you, which you clearly are not a skilled enough reader to
> comprehend.
> 
> Finally, there was only one question mark in the entire email. Let me
> paraphrase, because your reading comprehension skills are lacking: *why
> is my ip address getting blocked repeatedly as I scrape open source, and
> may I have permission to scrape appropriately without being blocked?*
> I'm asking permission from the community as a whole, which is why I am
> asking the developer mailing list as a whole. If you do not know the
> answer to my question, what was the purpose of your ridiculous retorts?
> 
> On Sat, Jun 12, 2021 at 9:52 AM Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside
> mailto:deb...@polynamaude.com>> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> On 2021-06-12 12:21 p.m., John E Petersen wrote:
> > Hey folks, I’m deve

Re: Unique kernel with my own backup of all Debian repositories

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,

On 2021-06-12 12:21 p.m., John E Petersen wrote:
> Hey folks, I’m developing a unique kernel based on Debian Linux, and
> I’ve been scraping the website for repositories. After a few thousand,
> the servers start to block my ip. 
> 
> I’m just trying to keep the crazy government out of Linux, because they
> keep monkeying with repositories on Ubuntu, not to mention
> snap/snapd/brltty/systemd… 

Did you smoke something that wasn't meant to end up in your lungs ? Have
you ingested some mushrooms ?

What you write here is a total screw-up non-sense !

1st : There's no "government" in Linux. It's a community driven project,
like Debian.

2nd : You talk about Ubuntu repository, sorry, beep, bong, whatever,
wake-up call, this is Debian, no Ubuntu repository here.

3rd : What's the link between Snap/SnapD/Brltyy and SystemD ?

Plus, they’ve totally screwed up Digital
> Ocean and more or less OVH, so I need a unique kernel (and physical
> servers) to host my wholesome websites. Not to rant, but it has really
> gotten ridiculous.

And now, you put on some specific entities to have screwed Digital Ocean
and OVH (two different company). Sorry dude ! I'm running many OVH rack
and none of them have any problem running Debian Buster or Bullseye,
straight out of the box.


> 
> I’m not doing anything malicious, and the repositories seem to have
> extremely flexible licensing, so what’s the problem? If I ever wind up
> distributing such a kernel which allows access to my copies of the
> repositories, I would give credit where it’s due, of course. 
> 

So you woke up and decided on your own, you're gonna write a brand new
kernel, fully compatible with the Linux kernel ? All by yourself ?

Watch what you are doing, because it would be a bad thing to copy the
code of others while doing so !

> If you guys would give me the green light, I’d appreciate it. I’m not
> saying I would ever distribute such a thing, but I’m not ruling out the
> possibility either. I’m not looking to mirror, just to be clear.
> 

What "green light" are you expecting here ? Everyone talk for their own
self. I think you are missing a really important part here...

There's no "central" entity that will give you a "go a head" on the name
of others. It's not like working for IBM where you employer hold the
copyright of your works.
> Salud de Mexico,
> John (Tarbal) 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Re: ARM architectures

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,

On 2021-06-05 1:01 p.m., Adam Borowski wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 05, 2021 at 03:04:45PM +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
>> Any of the boards from pine64.org should do and as far as I know have 
>> quite good support (i.e. there are Debian Installer images for them) and 
>> all are 64 bit ;)
> 
> +1 to pine64 gear.
> 
I'd like to give +2 to pine64 but...
all is out of stock from their store...

I'll see for third party.
>> The PINE A64+ (2 GB RAM) is very stable for me, unless I put significant 
>> load on the USB connection (specifically *heavy* writing to an external 
>> HDD in a powered enclosure), but it could also be a power issue.
> 
> It's only USB2 -- in a board that has reliable gigabit ethernet.  Plus,
> there's no such thing as stable USB-connected disk, anywhere.  I'd recommend
> using nbd instead.
> 
>> For a cheap board now I'd probably go for a ROCK64 (USB3 instead of 
>> USB2), or even a RockPro64 (better CPU, PCIe, unfortunately limited to 4 
>> GB RAM).
> 
> Both Pine64 and RockPro64 come as laptops, by the way -- Pinebook and
> Pinebook Pro, respectively.
> 
> 
> Meow!
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Re: ARM architectures

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,

On 2021-06-05 12:24 p.m., Marc Haber wrote:
> On Sat, 5 Jun 2021 04:39:08 -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside
>  wrote:
>> I always appreciate all opinions. But what I surely dislike is people
>> that put others option down to raiser their own.
> 
> If that was targeted at me, duly noted. I will refrain from spending
> time with your requests in the future.
> 
>> Quad Core ARM Cortex A7 CPU
> 
> Four ten year old 32-bit cores.
> 
I think you didn't get much what I said...

If you'd have took time to explain the real reason behind why choosing a
RPi4 maybe a good idea versus simply saying they are better than other
choices. Then I would have considered much more knowledgeable your
opinions and fact based.

You think I never got someone sent me answer and solutions with any fact
to support them ? Too often and I do make choices based on information,
not on the blind suggestion of others.

I'd prefer a 64 bit solution.

I cited those ARM Cortex A7 because you seem to say all of them we're
limited to 1 GB and dual core.

Also, there's a balance between price, size, power consumption... So
those are reason why I may go with 32bit when I'd prefer 64.

Does the RPi4 is totally 64 bit ?
> Greetings
> Marc
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Re: ARM architectures

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,

On 2021-06-05 4:50 a.m., Christoph Biedl wrote:
> Marc Haber wrote...
> 
>> I'd still consider the Raspberry Pi. It's unfortunate that the binary
>> non-free blob is already needed to boot the box even if one doesn't
>> need/use the GPU after booting, but it is reasonably common that
>> people care about their software on the platform, and it's also
>> affordable and has versions with enough RAM available.
> 
> Another point here: Since so many people use it, there's a good chance
> even seldom-occurring hardware flaws will be found and eventually worked
> around. An effect we saw some two decades ago with the cheap-but-
> horrible rtl8139 network adapters.
> 
> For me, the biggest downside of the RPi4 is the need for an extra power
> plug as they take up to three amps - while for example a BananaPi can be
> powered using some unused USB (<= 3.0) port.
> 
>> Many of the options pointed out by Siji Sunny are a decade old and
>> therfore do not fill your with for a "modern" platform. I am currently
>> in the process of fading out the Banana Pis because the platform has
>> never really taken off and a dual core 32 bit CPU with 1 GB RAM is
>> running out of fun these days.
> 
> Depends on the planned use and the budget. I am slowly fading out the
> DockStars who are really ten years old now - but mostly due to the
> memory limit (128 Mbyte) and the architecture (armel) where I can expect
> Debian will end support in a not-too-distant future. Otherwise they can
> route 16 MBit without any problem.
> 
> For CPU-hungry tasks (package building) I've switched from a CubieTruck
> to an RPi4 a few months ago and the performance boost was mindblowing.
> (Aside, has anybody noticed aptitude from jessie and buster in an armel
> chroot dies with SIGILL sometimes when running on the arm64 CPU of an
> RPI4?)
> 
> So you if (OP) are basically want to build a console server - which is
> how I read you question - almost any board will do it. With the year
> 2038 in mind (no kidding, this will arrive faster than you think), I'd
> advise against armel and the pseudo-armhf used in the first two (or
> three) RPi generations. For arm64 will can expect to have support after
> that date, for armhf there's at least hope.
> 
We could call this a console server with only one console.
I want to build a board so we can offload some math calculation used in
chemistry onto a RISC CPU. This is also to demonstrate the speed of ARM
vs CISC (AMD/Intel x86_64).

For sure the 64bit CPUs are much more interesting.

This is only a starting project so I'm far from having made all the
decision.

I only wanted to make the precision that I don't need the GPU and HDMI
output as this may open some more possibility.

Yes, a serial port based console is still needed, both for debugging,
interactive booting if needed and because it's somewhat a pain to debug
when you have absolutely no output before network is ready.

I know that there's some project of creating a opensource version of the
Raspberry Pi video core chipset. Maybe this will give me a push to think
about the Pi. But there's also the lower power requirement of some other
solution that interest me.

I saw a board on AliExpress that offer some AllWonder A33 with 1 or 2Gb
RAM for a really good price.
For what I'll be doing, I could use such board and pack them 4 together
as this give added power that you don't get by just using a board with
more core. Two system with 4 core is better than one system with 8 core,
at least if you only do pure maths.

I'm still learning much on ARM now.

It's kind of funny...
When I started into computing all the common home PC and standard office
PC used Intel x86 processor or Motorola 68k.
The expensive workstation run on RISC CPU like IBM RS/6000, SGI Indigo,
Sun SparcStation, HP Apollo, etc...
And then Apple, IBM and Motorola created the PowerPC.
So Apple created it's PowerMac computer line.
And IBM created workstation based on the Power chipset (RS/6000
derivative today still called Power, now something like Power6 probably).
Time passed by and Apple went to Intel because they didn't invest much
into the future development of PowerPC based chipset.
Now that Intel didn't do much in development, but only pushed more
transistor on silicon, they are somewhat in a rabbit hole. They used all
their trick they had from the past, massive parallel, hyperthreading,
using cache, etc.
And Risc (Acorn Risc Machine) - ARM is now getting back to the front.
Has a better energy efficiency and does more instruction in less cycle.
Now it does also scale better.

So it's like a wheel...

It will take much stuff for me to be impressed with computer now... All
has been done and seen. Except maybe the Quantum computer... Like the
one made by D-Wave system... we are back with mainframe computer that
require at least a rack and water cooling. We never got rid of those but
now we are back to a solution where the's no choice other than using
cryogenic cooling.

And if a real bug get i

Re: ARM architectures

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,

On 2021-06-05 4:08 a.m., Marc Haber wrote:
> On Sat, 5 Jun 2021 01:16:44 -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside
>  wrote:
>> I'm looking for a ARM platform that can easily run Linux.
>> Support using terminal over serial port for booting (no need of a GPU).
>>
>> I know about the Raspberry PI but the GPU drivers are not open source.
>> I don't really need a GPU, if I do need graphics then I could always go
>> with a X over Ethernet.
> 
> I'd still consider the Raspberry Pi. It's unfortunate that the binary
> non-free blob is already needed to boot the box even if one doesn't
> need/use the GPU after booting, but it is reasonably common that
> people care about their software on the platform, and it's also
> affordable and has versions with enough RAM available.
> 
> Many of the options pointed out by Siji Sunny are a decade old and
> therfore do not fill your with for a "modern" platform. I am currently
> in the process of fading out the Banana Pis because the platform has
> never really taken off and a dual core 32 bit CPU with 1 GB RAM is
> running out of fun these days. The Raspberry Pi 4 does not have many
> of the disadvantages of the older Raspberry Pi models (it has decently
> connected Gigabit Ethernet and USB3 that can be used to reasonably
> connect external mass storage).
> 
I always appreciate all opinions. But what I surely dislike is people
that put others option down to raiser their own.

I've checked the options that Sunny gave me and here's one of them... As
you can see, it's quad core.

Quad Core ARM Cortex A7 CPU
Dual core Mali 400 MP2 GPU
1G DDR3 SDRAM
support SATA interface
MicroSD slot supports up to 256GB expansion
Not 8G eMMC flash onboard
CSI camera intface and DSI display interface support
10/100/1000 Mb Ethernet port
(4) USB 2.0 hosts and (1) USB otg port
1080P high-definition video playback
HDMI port and multi-channel audio output
WIFI&Bluetooth 4.0 with 802.11BGN onboard
3.5mm Stereo Output mini-jack with microphone support

I do agree that the Raspberry is able to run up to 4 Gb, but there's
other board too.

I am looking exactly for the type of board I've got in the link, that is
a SBC type board that can be small enough to pack many of them in a box
to do massive parallel math work.

As this project, there's security constraint that impose me to use
opensource or audit possible solution.

> Hope this helps.
> 
> Greetings
> Marc
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Re: ARM architectures

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,

On 2021-06-05 1:52 a.m., Siji Sunny wrote:
> 
> Hi !
> I'm looking for a ARM platform that can easily run Linux.
> Support using terminal over serial port for booting (no need of a GPU).
> 
> I know about the Raspberry PI but the GPU drivers are not open source.
> I don't really need a GPU, if I do need graphics then I could always go
> with a X over Ethernet.
> 
> Something like a modern board with possibility to use USB.
> 
> 
> Dear Polyna,
> 
> Below few options which you should explore -
> 
>   * BeagleBoard (Bone black, etc) - https://beagleboard.org/
> 
>   * Odroid - https://www.hardkernel.com/  .
> They having multiple boards which is powered by ARM processors
>   * Marvel Expressobin - http://espressobin.net/ 
>   * BananaPI - http://www.banana-pi.org/ 
>   * 96boards Portal by Linaro - https://www.96boards.org/
> 
> 
Thanks for all those ideas. I've just clicked one link and I'm already
amazed by the great possibility of Odroid. I could even build my own
custom portable game machine :) Or portable Linux machine... Sometime
get code to compile is the hardest game ;-)

Thanks
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> Someone got idea ?
> 
> Not too expensive...
> -- 
> Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
> -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Siji Sunny

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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ARM architectures

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi !
I'm looking for a ARM platform that can easily run Linux.
Support using terminal over serial port for booting (no need of a GPU).

I know about the Raspberry PI but the GPU drivers are not open source.
I don't really need a GPU, if I do need graphics then I could always go
with a X over Ethernet.

Something like a modern board with possibility to use USB.

Someone got idea ?

Not too expensive...
-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Re: debian 11 Bullseye RC 1

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,

On 2021-05-29 1:55 p.m., Timothy M Butterworth wrote:
> On 5/29/21, Holger Wansing  wrote:
>>
>>
>> Am 29. Mai 2021 18:33:34 MESZ schrieb "Andrew M.A. Cater"
>> :
>>> Are you using the unoffcial non-free firmware .iso to install from?
>>>
>>> Are you installing firmware-amdgpu from the non-free repository if not?
>>
>> Please note that there is no such package with name
>> "firmware-amdgpu" !
>> (You have already been told so in the past.)
>>
>> It's named "firmware-amd-graphics".
> 
> I just found this:
> https://cdimage.debian.org/images/unofficial/non-free/images-including-firmware/weekly-live-builds/amd64/iso-hybrid/
> I am going to download and install from this image. Hopefully my WiFi
> will work if not Linux Mint has drivers so I may download and install
> it.
> 
You can also preseed the firmware or add them to your own system afterward.
I doubt that amdgpu firmware is preventing you from booting !

>> Holger
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent from /e/ OS on Fairphone3
>>
>>
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Debmirror

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi !
I can't seem to get the debian security updates repository using debmirror.
It did work for me to get the standard repository, with both amd64 and
i386 plus the sources.
But I can't do it with security.debian.org
It just wait for ever and will fail.

Got any hint ?
Here's my command name

debmirror  --method=https --progress --debug --verbose
--dist="buster/updates" --section="main" --arch="amd64,i386" --source
--keyring /usr/share/keyrings/debian-archive-keyring.gpg
--host="security.debian.org" --diff=mirror /dpkg/security/

Got any hint ?

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Re: Debian mirror

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi !

On 2021-05-17 11:17 p.m., Sandro Tosi wrote:
> On Mon, May 17, 2021 at 11:09 PM Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside
>  wrote:
>>
>> Hi !
>> Maybe this is not the good mailing list, if so, please let me know which
>> one to go to.
>> I am making a copy of the Debian repository.
>> In the past I used both debmirror and aptly.
>> With aptly, I can get a possibility to make snapshot.
>> But I need to sign the new mirror with my own key and it can't be used
>> directly for a Debian installation.
> 
> it definitely can: you need to configure the public key as a preseed
> parameter (or the way that you're doing installation if it's not
> preseed), and the installation will continue as expected, recognizing
> the key used to sign the archive files and trusting the repository.
> 
I didn't know this one, that is I can supply my own key to the debian
installer program.
I will check how this is done.
>>
>> The reason I decided to use aptly is because I saw that when I run
>> debmirror, at then it will delete some files.
>> I was wondering if there's old version deleted from the repository when
>> we publish update ?
>> Does someone know what are the files deleted by debmirror when it
>> finished to run ?
For now, I'll continue with using debmirror.
>> --
>> Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
>> -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development
>>
> 
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Debian mirror

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi !
Maybe this is not the good mailing list, if so, please let me know which
one to go to.
I am making a copy of the Debian repository.
In the past I used both debmirror and aptly.
With aptly, I can get a possibility to make snapshot.
But I need to sign the new mirror with my own key and it can't be used
directly for a Debian installation.

The reason I decided to use aptly is because I saw that when I run
debmirror, at then it will delete some files.
I was wondering if there's old version deleted from the repository when
we publish update ?
Does someone know what are the files deleted by debmirror when it
finished to run ?
-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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