Re: How can the OS autodetect that a user is a newbie and offer help?
Roberto C. Sanchez wrote: > On Wed, Oct 18, 2006 at 08:36:06AM +0200, Sander Marechal wrote: >> If something happens to X then a user can end up in the terminal. Even a >> faulty application can trash X. >> > I don't believe that an application can trash X so badly that it won't > start anymore. True, but I meant that an app can kill X, requiring it to be restarted. Newbies get very confused at that point. Hence my suggestion of a friendly message on how to restart the desktop or how to reboot the PC from the command line. -- Sander Marechal http://www.gnome-hearts.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How can the OS autodetect that a user is a newbie and offer help?
Alexey Feldgendler wrote: > In a desktop environment, the user needs to do a special action to run > the shell (such as starting the Gnome Terminal). It's somewhat unlikely > that the user ends up in the "scary black screen" by accident, and even > then he can easily find the familiar close button in the title bar of > the window. My point is that today's user only gets a shell when he > wants a shell, and users who don't know how to use the shell won't want it. If something happens to X then a user can end up in the terminal. Even a faulty application can trash X. Maybe all what is needed is a small script and a warning. Suppose we write a script called "desktop" or "start-desktop" that can start X, Gnome, KDE or whatever is installed on the system - with safe values for e.g. the X config. Sort of like Windows' rescue mode. Then have a message appear when the terminal starts (not the virtual terminals that you can start from your desktop, but the terminal you get when X is dead) that reads something like: "If your desktop accidentally died, type "start-desktop" and hit the return key or type "reboot" to restart your computer." If it can be made so that this message only appears when X is installed but not running on the system, then even better. -- Sander Marechal http://www.gnome-hearts.org/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why does Ubuntu have all the ideas?
David Nusinow wrote: > On Sun, Aug 27, 2006 at 10:37:58PM -0600, Bruce Sass wrote: >> On Sun August 27 2006 06:47, Sander Marechal wrote: >>> * Desktop - basic: Simple minimal GNOME installation pretty much as >>> it is now, maybe with even less software preinstalled. (I was >>> surprised by the ammount of software that came along with it). >>> >>> * Desktop - stand alone: End-user desktop enviroment where we can >>> safely add fancy integration tricks and extra components that Ubuntu >>> does as well. >> If by "we" you mean Debian... great success in that endeavour would >> essentially put Ubuntu out of business, I don't think that is what >> either wants. > > I don't care one way or another if it puts Ubuntu out of business (or > Canonical, as it were), but I want Debian to provide a top-notch desktop > experience for Debian's sake. I agree. Just because Debian doesn't target the newbie's and Windows switchers that much, doesn't mean that Debian people don't want a nicely integrated desktop. A Debian desktop would be different from an Ubuntu desktop because it targets different people. -- Sander Marechal -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why does Ubuntu have all the ideas?
Hendrik Sattler wrote: >>> - something useful like ifplugd was not installed and the user was >>> puzzled by the fact that plugging in the network cable did not >>> result in network access >> I agree that it would be nice if ifplugd or laptop-net were installed >> by default, but last I checked Debian didn't install either by >> default, either. So what's your point? > > It's all about expectations. Always keep in mind that the target group > differs > a lot between Ubuntu and Debian. I wouldn't say they differ. Ubuntu targets only a small subset of Debian users. Maybe Debian should simply split the Desktop task in tasksel into two entries: * Desktop - basic: Simple minimal GNOME installation pretty much as it is now, maybe with even less software preinstalled. (I was surprised by the ammount of software that came along with it). * Desktop - stand alone: End-user desktop enviroment where we can safely add fancy integration tricks and extra components that Ubuntu does as well. Just my $0.02 -- Sander Marechal http://www.gnome-hearts.org/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Running x86-64 debian inside i386 pbuilder on AMD64
Martin Wuertele wrote: > * Sander Marechal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-08-25 07:39]: > >> Matthias Julius wrote: >>> pbuilder create --debootstrapopts --arch=amd64 >> It didn't work after all. I got a kernel running, but debootstrap >> doesn't want to cooperate. It quits with an error that it cannot find a >> script. It takes a random string from the pbuilder configuration and >> tries lo look for a script at that place instead of >> /usr/lib/pbuilder/scripts. Weird. > > debootstrap in such environments works fine on debian etch and debian sid > systems and with a the debootstrap from backports.org even on debian > sarge systems. Maybe my debootstrap is simply too old. I'll compare versions. >> I think I'm going to take the easy way out and install a minimal dapper >> 64 in a small partition and use that to build amd64 binaries. > > If you look for support of ubuntu you have come to the wrong place. > http://www.ubuntu.com/support looks more appropriate. Hehe, you guys know far more than they do. They told me it wasn't possible to simply replace my k7 kernel with an amd64-k8 kernel untill I said "But I am running it right now and it works!". Let alone that they knew anything about amd64 pbuilder on a 32-bit system. Last question: How do the debian build servers do it? Do they have a build server for every architecture or is everything cross-compiled with architecture specific toolchains? Thanks for all the help so far! -- Sander Marechal http://www.gnome-hearts.org/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Running x86-64 debian inside i386 pbuilder on AMD64
Matthias Julius wrote: > Sander Marechal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> So, is it possible to bootstrap an x86-64 OS with pbuilder on an i386 >> system running on an AMD64? > > Yes, this should be possible (if you are running an amd64 kernel). I > would try (not tested): > > pbuilder create --debootstrapopts --arch=amd64 It didn't work after all. I got a kernel running, but debootstrap doesn't want to cooperate. It quits with an error that it cannot find a script. It takes a random string from the pbuilder configuration and tries lo look for a script at that place instead of /usr/lib/pbuilder/scripts. Weird. I think I'm going to take the easy way out and install a minimal dapper 64 in a small partition and use that to build amd64 binaries. -- Sander Marechal http://www.gnome-hearts.org/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why does Ubuntu have all the ideas?
Bastian Venthur wrote: > Michelle Konzack wrote: >> Hello Katrina, >> >> Am 2006-07-28 12:42:01, schrieb Katrina Jackson: >> >>> PS. Hardware, Hardware, Hardware, I have to confess, if there was better >>> hardware support I think most people would be happy. Hardware supported by >>> Ubuntu 6 months ago, should be supported by Debian by now. >> Why do you try to blame Debian for the sucking Hardware support >> which is definitifly a thing of the Kernel (Linux) which depend >> on the support of the hardware manufacturer. If you want to >> get better hardware support, please contact the manufacturer. > > Because, hardware support seems to be better in Ubutuntu than in Debian? > I've not tested it by myself, but I've heard from many people claiming > that their hardware (especially Laptop hardware) works perfectly out of > the box with Ubuntu but is a PITA to get working on Debian. Ubuntu ships with some restricted modules for better hardware support. To be exact (from synaptic): - madwifi (Atheros) - fglrx (ATI) - nvidia - fcdsl2, fcdslsl, fcdslslusb, fcdslusb, fcdslusb2, fcpci, fcpcmcia, fcpcmcia_cs (AVM ISDN) I don't think Debian should do that, but perhaps the process to install them after the fact could be easier for people who are not full blown Linux admins? -- Sander Marechal http://www.gnome-hearts.org/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why does Ubuntu have all the ideas?
Aaron M. Ucko wrote: > Sander Marechal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> I don't think Debian should do that, but perhaps the process to install >> them after the fact could be easier for people who are not full blown >> Linux admins? > > Are you aware of module-assistant? Nope, but I was going off Bastian's comment that a lot of modules get shipped as source and need to be compiled. I use Ubuntu myself (plain Debian as a dev system and test system) so I already have the modules I need. -- Sander Marechal http://www.gnome-hearts.org/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Running x86-64 debian inside i386 pbuilder on AMD64
Aaron M. Ucko wrote: > Sander Marechal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> Quick question: Do I only need the AMD64 linux-image package, or also >> the linux-restricted-modules package? > > You need corresponding versions of whichever modules package(s) you > currently have installed. Thanks. The kernel works but I loose the nvidia driver and with it XGL, so X crashes on startup (I have the XGL server replace the standard X server, not run on top of it). What is the "normal" way to build amd64 .deb's on a 32-bit debian/ubuntu? -- Sander Marechal http://www.gnome-hearts.org/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Running x86-64 debian inside i386 pbuilder on AMD64
Joerg Jaspert wrote: > On 10756 March 1977, Sander Marechal wrote: > >> Nope, I run a K7 kernel now (Ubuntu dapper). Can I simply replace my >> kernel and leave the rest of my system in tact? I don't see AMD64 kernel >> images in Synaptic. Probably a silly question, but who knows :-) > > You need to run dpkg with the right --force option to install a 64bit > kernel with the "wrong" arch amd64 on your system. Works perfectly nice, > but you should be sure your cpu is really able to run it, or next reboot > doesnt get far. I'm sure allright. I've had various 64 bit distro's on this machine, but lack of flash and a few other 32-bit only things always make me go back. Quick question: Do I only need the AMD64 linux-image package, or also the linux-restricted-modules package? Thanks, -- Sander Marechal http://www.gnome-hearts.org/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Running x86-64 debian inside i386 pbuilder on AMD64
Matthias Julius wrote: > Sander Marechal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> I am looking to create .deb's for x86-64. I have an AMD64 but run an >> i386 OS due to the lack of some 64-bit packages (like flash and >> what-not). I have pbuilder all set up to build packages for i386, but I >> wonder if it's possible to use it to create x86-64 packages as well. >> After all, I do have an AMD64 so I can run x86-64 packages. >> >> So, is it possible to bootstrap an x86-64 OS with pbuilder on an i386 >> system running on an AMD64? > > Yes, this should be possible (if you are running an amd64 kernel). I > would try (not tested): > > pbuilder create --debootstrapopts --arch=amd64 Nope, I run a K7 kernel now (Ubuntu dapper). Can I simply replace my kernel and leave the rest of my system in tact? I don't see AMD64 kernel images in Synaptic. Probably a silly question, but who knows :-) -- Sander Marechal http://www.gnome-hearts.org/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Running x86-64 debian inside i386 pbuilder on AMD64
Hello, I am looking to create .deb's for x86-64. I have an AMD64 but run an i386 OS due to the lack of some 64-bit packages (like flash and what-not). I have pbuilder all set up to build packages for i386, but I wonder if it's possible to use it to create x86-64 packages as well. After all, I do have an AMD64 so I can run x86-64 packages. So, is it possible to bootstrap an x86-64 OS with pbuilder on an i386 system running on an AMD64? Thanks in advance, -- Sander Marechal http://www.gnome-hearts.org/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
