Re: When do we update the homepage to a modern design? (was Re: Moving away from (unsupportable) FusionForge on Alioth)
Le 16/05/2017 03:47, Nicholas D Steeves a écrit : On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 02:17:40AM +0200, Stéphane Aulery wrote: Yes, Debian is a community like another, and a community is build with shared principles. Design isn't principle, it is just a shameful exploitation of the idea of beauty, serving a precise purpose which is not a shared principle. Wanting to do the number is not and should never be a goal of Debian. Debian say claim to be "The universal operating system". It should not be understood that it is used by everyone but that is generalist and at the service of all. Design and advertising are one and the same, manipulating the mind through the image to obtain consent. We are stuck in this rotten atmosphere since the interwar period. Much longer than that! See "beauty" "deception" "kalon" vs "kallos" in Plato's writing. While some people use beauty to lie and cheat and bend both truth and understanding, this is not always the case. Something that is beautiful can be admirable and true. If Debian's structure is all of these things, then shouldn't also be its artwork and design? Even website design... Isn't this the point of the Fibonacci logo? I did not want to talk about philosophers, it would have been pretentious. But you understood the message. Yes, beautiful, truth and being are one thing. I think that Debian does not especially need aesthetic beauty research because it already has the accents of truth for it, and since it is one the same thing it already has a little intrinsically. Do we need to make a very beautiful site to bring people to us? No, because Debian already has real principles that have attracted thousands of people. Do we need to make a better site? Yes, because it goes together. What I really want to say is that the original message calls for an aesthetic among others that is the one of the moment, but that is not what we should aim for as this kind of beauty does not fit the timeless beauty of the principles of Debian since it is so quickly obsolete. Regards, -- Stéphane Aulery
Re: When do we update the homepage to a modern design? (was Re: Moving away from (unsupportable) FusionForge on Alioth)
Le 16/05/2017 02:27, Ben Hutchings a écrit : On Tue, 2017-05-16 at 02:17 +0200, Stéphane Aulery wrote: [...] Yes, Debian is a community like another, and a community is build with shared principles. Design isn't principle, it is just a shameful exploitation of the idea of beauty, serving a precise purpose which is not a shared principle. Wanting to do the number is not and should never be a goal of Debian. Debian say claim to be "The universal operating system". It should not be understood that it is used by everyone but that is generalist and at the service of all. Design and advertising are one and the same, manipulating the mind through the image to obtain consent. We are stuck in this rotten atmosphere since the interwar period. Please tell me this is satire. Because if this is serious, this is seriously rude and dismissive toward everyone in Debian who thinks and works at a higher level than hacking on code. It's not all about the code. Design matters. So does creating a community where all kinds of contributions are valued. Debian is the second distribution without this beautiful design that we are often asked. No ? I do not reject the work of those who contribute anything other than code. I personally contribute mainly translations. I only say that if we put a very beautiful facade in the fashion of the day we will mainly attract people who are superficial. That does not mean that things should not be improved, but that it should be reasonable. Is it less hard? -- Stéphane Aulery
Re: When do we update the homepage to a modern design? (was Re: Moving away from (unsupportable) FusionForge on Alioth)
Le 16/05/2017 01:48, Sean Whitton a écrit : Hello Zlatan, On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 09:45:46PM +0200, Zlatan Todoric wrote: Then lets forget about getting newcomers (fresh blood) to Debian as you're so close minded to modern/new things - the same way they probably close the window when they see '90 style with a lot of text that actually says nothing. We are strange with our talks last few debconfs - we want new people but we don't want to break our precious habits nor do we want to give freedom to others to express themselves if they don't fit into our circle of thinking which must be the best one. I'm a relative newcomer, and I'm less than 30 years old, and one thing that attracted me to Debian was the website's not being like lxde.org :) More generally, while I agree that we should be flexible in the pursuit of new contributors and users, we mustn't lose our identity in that process. Well Debian on its page doesn't mention it is Linux based or has Linux kernel or at all word Linux. We have Linux, HURD and the FreeBSD kernel, though. I suspect the thought was Debian hopes its practices, values and community will outlive any specific kernel, just like they could outlive apt/dpkg. Yes, Debian is a community like another, and a community is build with shared principles. Design isn't principle, it is just a shameful exploitation of the idea of beauty, serving a precise purpose which is not a shared principle. Wanting to do the number is not and should never be a goal of Debian. Debian say claim to be "The universal operating system". It should not be understood that it is used by everyone but that is generalist and at the service of all. Design and advertising are one and the same, manipulating the mind through the image to obtain consent. We are stuck in this rotten atmosphere since the interwar period. -- Stéphane Aulery
Re: When do we update the homepage to a modern design? (was Re: Moving away from (unsupportable) FusionForge on Alioth)
Le 15/05/2017 13:42, Hans a écrit : just a suggestion/idea. IMO it might be a good idea and advertisement to debian, if people could see on the website, that debian is one of the most used linuces in the world. It should also be strong pointed to, that debian is the source of ubuntu. You may also point to, that debian is running (as my actual knowledge) on most servers in the web. Maybe other things, that people do not know yet, which show the power of debian, should be mentioned (I think of biggest community, best documentation, best tested software and all the things, that make debian so famous). The website should proudly express all the goodness of debian, there are so many, that the site is not showing at the moment. Make eyecatchers, that people want to know more about it! It is it worth! +10 -- Stéphane Aulery
Re: When do we update the homepage to a modern design? (was Re: Moving away from (unsupportable) FusionForge on Alioth)
Le 15/05/2017 12:54, Medical Wei a écrit : > I think we need to start having a catchphrase and things that can attract new > users. > > What I know is that we have revised our design but that is not attractive > enough. It's just that this sort of things is like black holes. You can't expect fill it. Maybe the site is not attractive enough, but it does represent the quiet strength of Debian, not the hustle and bustle. I find that the information is well accessible and above all internationalized. Internationalization is a huge effort that we do not talk about, but it's more important than a trendy theme that will soon be outdated. I think using external help with a bit of money is a good idea provided the result is representative of Debian and not a reload of the tricks of the moment. -- Stéphane Aulery
Re: Help to review a patch in ELisp
Hello, Thank you very much for your accurate answers. I forwarded to the author for a decision knowingly. Regards, -- Stéphane Aulery -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141123134253.ga2...@free.fr
Help to review a patch in ELisp
Hello, I am looking for a person who knows enough to verify a ELisp patch. The patch is supposed to fix a problem of space in file names [1], upstream unfortunately does not have the in-house expertise [2]. Volunteers? Regards, [1] https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=579531 [2] https://sourceforge.net/p/cscope/bugs/282/#9a4f/f853 -- Stéphane Aulery -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141120195438.gc5...@free.fr
Help to review a patch in ELisp
Hello,
I am looking for a person who knows enough to verify a ELisp patch. The
patch is supposed to fix a problem of space in file names [1], upstream
unfortunately does not have the in-house expertise [2].
Volunteers?
Regards,
[1] https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=579531
[2] https://sourceforge.net/p/cscope/bugs/282/#9a4f/f853
--
Stéphane Aulery
diff -r -u cscope-15.7a/contrib/xcscope/cscope-indexer change/cscope-15.7a/contrib/xcscope/cscope-indexer
--- cscope-15.7a/contrib/xcscope/cscope-indexer 2001-06-28 12:39:48.0 +0800
+++ change/cscope-15.7a/contrib/xcscope/cscope-indexer 2010-04-28 17:46:02.0 +0800
@@ -139,7 +139,8 @@
) | \
egrep -i '\.([chly](xx|pp)*|cc|hh)$' | \
sed -e '/\/CVS\//d' -e '/\/RCS\//d' -e 's/^\.\///' | \
-sort > $LIST_FILE
+sort | \
+ sed -e 's/.* .*/\"&\"/' > $LIST_FILE
if [ "X$VERBOSE" != "X" ]
then
diff -r -u cscope-15.7a/contrib/xcscope/xcscope.el change/cscope-15.7a/contrib/xcscope/xcscope.el
--- cscope-15.7a/contrib/xcscope/xcscope.el 2002-04-11 00:59:00.0 +0800
+++ change/cscope-15.7a/contrib/xcscope/xcscope.el 2010-04-28 17:47:45.0 +0800
@@ -1750,7 +1750,7 @@
;; This should always match.
(if (string-match
- "^\\([^ \t]+\\)[ \t]+\\([^ \t]+\\)[ \t]+\\([0-9]+\\)[ \t]+\\(.*\\)\n"
+ "^\\([^\t]+\\)[ \t]+\\([^ \t]+\\)[ \t]+\\([0-9]+\\)[ \t]+\\(.*\\)\n"
line)
(progn
(let (str)
diff -r -u cscope-15.7a/src/command.c change/cscope-15.7a/src/command.c
--- cscope-15.7a/src/command.c 2009-04-10 21:40:36.0 +0800
+++ change/cscope-15.7a/src/command.c 2010-04-28 17:39:19.0 +0800
@@ -728,7 +728,7 @@
*oldfile = '\0';
seekline(1);
for (i = 0;
- fscanf(refsfound, "%" PATHLEN_STR "s%*s%" NUMLEN_STR "s%*[^\n]", newfile, linenum) == 2;
+ fscanf(refsfound, "%" PATHLEN_STR "[^\t]\t%*s%" NUMLEN_STR "s%*[^\n]\n", newfile, linenum) == 2;
++i) {
/* see if the line is to be changed */
if (change[i] == YES) {
@@ -884,8 +884,9 @@
filelen = 4; /* strlen("File") */
fcnlen = 8; /* strlen("Function") */
numlen = 0;
-while ((i = fscanf(refsfound, "%250s%250s%5s %5000[^\n]", file,
- function, linenum, tempstring)) != EOF) {
+
+while ((i = fscanf(refsfound, "%250[^\t]\t%250s %5s %5000[^\n]\n", file,
+ function, linenum, tempstring)) != EOF) {
if (i != 4 ||
!isgraph((unsigned char) *file) ||
!isgraph((unsigned char) *function) ||
diff -r -u cscope-15.7a/src/display.c change/cscope-15.7a/src/display.c
--- cscope-15.7a/src/display.c 2009-04-10 21:40:36.0 +0800
+++ change/cscope-15.7a/src/display.c 2010-04-28 17:21:24.0 +0800
@@ -224,7 +224,7 @@
disprefs < mdisprefs && screenline <= lastdispline;
++disprefs, ++screenline) {
/* read the reference line */
- if (fscanf(refsfound, "%" PATHLEN_STR "s%" PATHLEN_STR "s%" NUMLEN_STR "s %" TEMPSTRING_LEN_STR "[^\n]", file, function,
+ if (fscanf(refsfound, "%" PATHLEN_STR "[^\t]\t%" PATLEN_STR "s%" NUMLEN_STR "s %" TEMPSTRING_LEN_STR "[^\n]\n", file, function,
linenum, tempstring) < 4) {
break;
}
diff -r -u cscope-15.7a/src/edit.c change/cscope-15.7a/src/edit.c
--- cscope-15.7a/src/edit.c 2009-04-10 21:40:36.0 +0800
+++ change/cscope-15.7a/src/edit.c 2010-04-28 14:49:06.0 +0800
@@ -60,7 +60,7 @@
seekline(i + topline);
/* get the file name and line number */
- if (fscanf(refsfound, "%" PATHLEN_STR "s%*s%" NUMLEN_STR "s", file, linenum) == 2) {
+ if (fscanf(refsfound, "%" PATHLEN_STR "[^\t]\t%*s%" NUMLEN_STR "s", file, linenum) == 2) {
edit(file, linenum); /* edit it */
}
seekline(topline); /* restore the line pointer */
@@ -83,7 +83,7 @@
seekline(1);
/* get each file name and line number */
- while (fscanf(refsfound, "%" PATHLEN_STR "s%*s%" NUMLEN_STR "s%*[^\n]", file, linenum) == 2) {
+ while (fscanf(refsfound, "%" PATHLEN_STR "[^\t]\t%*s%" NUMLEN_STR "s%*[^\n]\n", file, linenum) == 2) {
edit(file, linenum); /* edit it */
if (editallprompt == YES) {
addstr("Type ^D to stop editing all lines, or any other character to continue: ");
diff -r -u cscope-15.7a/src/find.c change/cscope-15.7a/src/find.c
--- cscope-15.7a/src/find.c 2009-04-10 21:40:36.0 +0800
+++ change/cscope-15.7a/src/find.c 2010-04-28 17:18:06.0 +0800
@@ -506,7 +506,7 @@
char *file = filepath(srcfiles[i]);
progress("Search", searchcount, nsrcfiles);
- if (egrep(file, refsfound, "%s %
