Re: Debian default desktop environment
Well, it's almost impossible to avoid personal judgments on this matter. This involves personal taste. But when talking about new users or not-that-advanced users, I'm really suggesting Gnome 3 to be the choice of the project. I know that its size is bigger than Xfce and it takes more resources, but it represents the evolution of a great desktop environment. And it is (and looks like) today. As I said before, we can't deny that a lot of people hate changes. But it's part of the process. Each product, when getting big changes, faces it. Windows 8 is a good example. I'm saying something that the market is showing us: people don't want to perform magic to make things work these days. They want to press an icon and get that program to work. Furthermore, they're asking developers to narrow differences between platforms. It's not about Gnome, Xfce or whatever desktop environment being focused only on touchscreen devices or identical to a mobile platform (that would be terrible for everyone), but at least something that doesn't make people think that Debian looks like from last decade and don't support new technologies (although, we all know, none of these being true -- but we have to show it). 2014-04-04 6:40 GMT-03:00 Chris Bannister cbannis...@slingshot.co.nz: On Fri, Apr 04, 2014 at 08:18:41AM +1100, Dmitry Smirnov wrote: On Thu, 3 Apr 2014 14:16:15 Undefined User wrote: The problem is that right now Debian project is changing its default desktop environment, and I think that this is not a good move. Of course, it all depends on where the project is aiming at, specially on which users. But, for normal users, Gnome 3 is a way better experience than Xfce. I think Xfce is much better *default* desktop environment (DE) than Gnome. As KDE fan I do not like Gnome. Those who forget to choose DE in installer (just like I did more than once) and end up with Xfce will have a lot less to Yeah, forgetting to press space instead of enter can lead to disaster! :) -- If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. --- Malcolm X -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140404094052.GI26381@tal
Re: Debian default desktop environment
Perfect solution. Debian installer should provide you information about desktop environments and let the user choose it. 2014-04-04 10:52 GMT-03:00 Jonathan Dowland j...@debian.org: We go over the same ground over and over. I'm increasingly in favour of *no* default. You must pick one from a list on install. Randomize the list if necessary. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140404135241.gb14...@bryant.redmars.org
Re: Debian default desktop environment
Sorry for not deleting the reply text over my last e-mail.
Re: Debian default desktop environment
2014-04-04 11:42 GMT-03:00 Stefano Zacchiroli z...@debian.org: And can I pass my granddad's phone call on to you when he is stuck choosing among names that are absolutely obscure to him like GNOME, Xfce, and KDE? Not giving the user a taste of the options, well... Yes, I agree, it's pretty hard to solve it this way. In addition to that, it's very important for us to understand that an average user (someone that just surfs the internet ou work with text editors) don't separate/discriminate the OS from the desktop environment. On Wheezy, for example, they would think that Debian is Gnome 3, because it is included in the whole default installation package. 2014-04-04 11:42 GMT-03:00 Stefano Zacchiroli z...@debian.org: On Fri, Apr 04, 2014 at 02:52:41PM +0100, Jonathan Dowland wrote: We go over the same ground over and over. I'm increasingly in favour of *no* default. You must pick one from a list on install. Randomize the list if necessary. And can I pass my granddad's phone call on to you when he is stuck choosing among names that are absolutely obscure to him like GNOME, Xfce, and KDE? We are software integrators, making default choices is what we do. We can't pass the bucket down to our users. -- Stefano Zacchiroli . . . . . . . z...@upsilon.cc . . . . o . . . o . o Maître de conférences . . . . . http://upsilon.cc/zack . . . o . . . o o Former Debian Project Leader . . @zack on identi.ca . . o o o . . . o . « the first rule of tautology club is the first rule of tautology club »
Re: Debian default desktop environment
2014-04-04 11:04 GMT-03:00 The Wanderer wande...@fastmail.fm: Actually, for all that top-posting is a sin, failing to quote at all when replying is AFAIK generally considered even worse... (Depending on context, of course; in a Web forum where the message being replied to is probably still visible when reading the reply, quoting would be inapproriate. But we're talking about E-mail here.) Duly noted. I will be more careful when replying.
Re: Debian default desktop environment
2014-04-04 14:46 GMT-03:00 Amy Rice pill.dic...@aol.co.uk: Is it a bad idea in the end not to include a desktop at all, and the user can install one at their own discretion? The Debian Installer lets you choose if you want to install a desktop environment or not. By default it comes checked (so it will be installed). I don't think that we have to change that. We only have to discuss about what desktop environment will be the default.
Re: Debian default desktop environment
2014-04-04 19:52 GMT-03:00 Philip Hands p...@hands.com: pointless discussion First of all, great attitude, my friend. It seems like you are a very reasonable person. Second, pointless discussion? So all these people here are just wasting time? Well... What can I say? That's your point of view and I have to respect it.
Re: Debian default desktop environment
2014-04-04 20:36 GMT-03:00 Philip Hands p...@hands.com: As for my grumpy tone, I apologise for that -- it probably comes from the several voluminous threads on debian-devel recently spouting drivel about systemd which I may have unfairly associated with this thread. Philip, I would like to thank you for the reply and also apologize for the email that I sent. I didn't want the discussion to be lost. However, I believe we should all know that there are many developers here, but also users - the latter being my case. So, I am not aware of the technical limitations of the distribution, and I think that some developer here could help us pointing them out, if any. Moreover, it would be important to know whether these limitations can be overcome or not.
Debian default desktop environment
Hello, I'm a Debian user for almost 8 years now and I've always supported the OS on the internet, trying to bring more people to it. The problem is that right now Debian project is changing its default desktop environment, and I think that this is not a good move. Of course, it all depends on where the project is aiming at, specially on which users. But, for normal users, Gnome 3 is a way better experience than Xfce. I'm not suggesting that Linux (in general) should be a Windows. NOT AT ALL. But Windows is the comparison for lots of newcomers, and Xfce looks a lot like Windows 98. I'm sorry, but it does. New users coming from Windows want a more dynamic and fluid desktop. And, by the way, if the discussion is about computer resources, Gnome 3 helps on discovering if your system can handle those new improvements. In my point of view, installing Xfce as default desktop environment means ignoring the fact that desktops are changing drastically, in a positive way, exactly where Gnome 3 is going. I had my first time at Gnome 3. At the beggining I was really confused. I kept asking what happened to Gnome?. I was lost there and very angry about the changes. But I decided to try it before curse it. And I don't want to change it anymore. Now when I have to run Windows on my PC I always try the hotkeys and hotspots that Gnome 3 brings and I really miss them. They help me a lot when just surfing the internet or when I'm at work. And that is just one point that I'm making. It's all about getting used to it. People have to try it! Like I said, I had the same feeling that a lot of people from the comunity does. It's just normal. We don't like changes. But this one worth it. So, in conclusion, when I suggest Debian for my friends, I prefer them to install the system and end up with Gnome 3 than Xfce. The latter should remain as it currently is: being an desktop environment alternative. Thanks! P.S.: Please, I ask the maintainers to forward this email to the correct list if this is not the ideal place for this discussion/suggestion. Felipe
Bug#703946: general: OS freezes, but mouse and ping keeps working
Good morning. I'm really sorry for not providing enough information, but I'll do my best to reproduce the error and see what happens when using Chromium or Firefox at the same procedure. I didn't test the SSH either, and that's a good idea. I will enable the service and try to access it. Could you tell me what commands should I be entering on SSH access to return with good information? Thanks for the support.
