Re: ARM port(s) BoF at DebConf
+++ Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton [2012-07-20 21:27 +0100]: > On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 12:54 AM, Hideki Yamane wrote: > > As I've posted during DebConf(*), Maybe OpenBlocks can solve this problem. > > It has 2GB RAM, reliable production use and we can buy it NOW. > > > > *) http://lists.debian.org/debian-arm/2012/07/msg7.html > > hideki, those look superb. I saw one at debconf and it is indeed really nice mini-server hardware in a proper box and everything! Not easily rackable, but nicely stackable. The only catch seems to be the price on the spec sheet which is 79000 yen, which I make to be best part of 750 euro. I'm not sure they'll sell any at that price, so hopefully that'll change. Wookey -- Principal hats: Linaro, Emdebian, Wookware, Balloonboard, ARM http://wookware.org/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120721012207.gp26...@dream.aleph1.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] ARM port(s) BoF at DebConf
Hi, I have a spec sheet to devices for English. I ask whether this can be distributed. Please wait. Nobuhiro 2012/7/21 Dr. David Alan Gilbert : > * Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton (l...@lkcl.net) wrote: >> On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 12:54 AM, Hideki Yamane wrote: >> > Hi, >> > >> > On Thu, 19 Jul 2012 18:35:44 +0100 >> > Steve McIntyre wrote: >> >> buildds >> >> === >> >> >> >> Both armel and armhf are doing well, covering ~96% of the archive. We >> >> don't have any ARM server hardware yet, so we're stuck using >> >> development boards as build machines. They work, but they're a PITA >> >> for hosting and they're not designed for 24x7 usage like we're doing >> >> so they're not that reliable. >> > >> > As I've posted during DebConf(*), Maybe OpenBlocks can solve this problem. >> > It has 2GB RAM, reliable production use and we can buy it NOW. >> > >> > *) http://lists.debian.org/debian-arm/2012/07/msg7.html >> >> hideki, those look superb. summarising (in case anyone's missed it): >> they're armv7 compatible because they're using a marvell xp processor; >> they're up to dual-core 1.4ghz and the company openblocks can do them >> with up to 3gb of RAM, and i gather the openblocks boxes have a mini >> pci-e port as well as gigabit ethernet. > > ftp://ftp.plathome.co.jp/pub/OBSAX3/Documents/OBSA_UsersGuide_1.0.0.pdf > > seems to be the (Japanese) user guide for it. Now, erm I don't know > any Japanese at all, but there are lots of very pretty diagrams in there. > But the picture on 4/24, and table 1.4 on section 6/24 > shows the OBSAX3/4/x with an Armada XP, 1.33GHz dual core, > 1GB SDRAM, a SODIMM that takes 1 or 2GB (more??), SATA2, Mini PCIe, > 4 () GigE, eSATA, 2xUSB2, and 2xRS-232C. > > Very nice! Pity it says available in japan only. > >> i'm including arm-netbooks because there may almost certainly be >> people on that list who would be interested in a group buy. there has >> been quite a bit of interest in getting hold of modular computing >> devices for rack-mounted server usage. > > Dave > -- > -Open up your eyes, open up your mind, open up your code --- > / Dr. David Alan Gilbert| Running GNU/Linux | Happy \ > \ gro.gilbert @ treblig.org | | In Hex / > \ _|_ http://www.treblig.org |___/ > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org > Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120720222832.GA637@gallifrey > -- Nobuhiro Iwamatsu iwamatsu at {nigauri.org / debian.org} GPG ID: 40AD1FA6 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CABMQnVL9qt8_rsuFLNw_+Sp1Dp=guh2ph4drgi6qj+6qfwn...@mail.gmail.com
Re: [Arm-netbook] ARM port(s) BoF at DebConf
* Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton (l...@lkcl.net) wrote: > On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 12:54 AM, Hideki Yamane wrote: > > Hi, > > > > On Thu, 19 Jul 2012 18:35:44 +0100 > > Steve McIntyre wrote: > >> buildds > >> === > >> > >> Both armel and armhf are doing well, covering ~96% of the archive. We > >> don't have any ARM server hardware yet, so we're stuck using > >> development boards as build machines. They work, but they're a PITA > >> for hosting and they're not designed for 24x7 usage like we're doing > >> so they're not that reliable. > > > > As I've posted during DebConf(*), Maybe OpenBlocks can solve this problem. > > It has 2GB RAM, reliable production use and we can buy it NOW. > > > > *) http://lists.debian.org/debian-arm/2012/07/msg7.html > > hideki, those look superb. summarising (in case anyone's missed it): > they're armv7 compatible because they're using a marvell xp processor; > they're up to dual-core 1.4ghz and the company openblocks can do them > with up to 3gb of RAM, and i gather the openblocks boxes have a mini > pci-e port as well as gigabit ethernet. ftp://ftp.plathome.co.jp/pub/OBSAX3/Documents/OBSA_UsersGuide_1.0.0.pdf seems to be the (Japanese) user guide for it. Now, erm I don't know any Japanese at all, but there are lots of very pretty diagrams in there. But the picture on 4/24, and table 1.4 on section 6/24 shows the OBSAX3/4/x with an Armada XP, 1.33GHz dual core, 1GB SDRAM, a SODIMM that takes 1 or 2GB (more??), SATA2, Mini PCIe, 4 () GigE, eSATA, 2xUSB2, and 2xRS-232C. Very nice! Pity it says available in japan only. > i'm including arm-netbooks because there may almost certainly be > people on that list who would be interested in a group buy. there has > been quite a bit of interest in getting hold of modular computing > devices for rack-mounted server usage. Dave -- -Open up your eyes, open up your mind, open up your code --- / Dr. David Alan Gilbert| Running GNU/Linux | Happy \ \ gro.gilbert @ treblig.org | | In Hex / \ _|_ http://www.treblig.org |___/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120720222832.GA637@gallifrey
Re: ARM port(s) BoF at DebConf
On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 12:54 AM, Hideki Yamane wrote: > Hi, > > On Thu, 19 Jul 2012 18:35:44 +0100 > Steve McIntyre wrote: >> buildds >> === >> >> Both armel and armhf are doing well, covering ~96% of the archive. We >> don't have any ARM server hardware yet, so we're stuck using >> development boards as build machines. They work, but they're a PITA >> for hosting and they're not designed for 24x7 usage like we're doing >> so they're not that reliable. > > As I've posted during DebConf(*), Maybe OpenBlocks can solve this problem. > It has 2GB RAM, reliable production use and we can buy it NOW. > > *) http://lists.debian.org/debian-arm/2012/07/msg7.html hideki, those look superb. summarising (in case anyone's missed it): they're armv7 compatible because they're using a marvell xp processor; they're up to dual-core 1.4ghz and the company openblocks can do them with up to 3gb of RAM, and i gather the openblocks boxes have a mini pci-e port as well as gigabit ethernet. i'm including arm-netbooks because there may almost certainly be people on that list who would be interested in a group buy. there has been quite a bit of interest in getting hold of modular computing devices for rack-mounted server usage. l. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAPweEDxB=akchpidonavwvuon9xf0gge9cf2smyjrrgdm3+...@mail.gmail.com
Re: ARM port(s) BoF at DebConf
Hi, 2012/7/20 Hideki Yamane : > Hi, > > On Thu, 19 Jul 2012 18:35:44 +0100 > Steve McIntyre wrote: >> buildds >> === >> >> Both armel and armhf are doing well, covering ~96% of the archive. We >> don't have any ARM server hardware yet, so we're stuck using >> development boards as build machines. They work, but they're a PITA >> for hosting and they're not designed for 24x7 usage like we're doing >> so they're not that reliable. > > As I've posted during DebConf(*), Maybe OpenBlocks can solve this problem. > It has 2GB RAM, reliable production use and we can buy it NOW. Note: This device can carry 2 GB of memory at the maximum. It is 1 GB at first. It does not necessarily have this 2 GB from first. > > *) http://lists.debian.org/debian-arm/2012/07/msg7.html > > I'll continue to communicate with that company, so if you have any questions/ > comments/suggestions/request/discount;), please tell me whether on-list or > privately. > > Well, I already taking about this. And the kernel of this machine has not been supported by upstream yet. We have some problems which should be solved. Best regards, Nobuhiro -- Nobuhiro Iwamatsu iwamatsu at {nigauri.org / debian.org} GPG ID: 40AD1FA6 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/cabmqnvkkmu9viwgyitdlgifjz2jk4izkm+5c-xdkn8pc+od...@mail.gmail.com
Re: ARM port(s) BoF at DebConf
Hi, On Thu, 19 Jul 2012 18:35:44 +0100 Steve McIntyre wrote: > buildds > === > > Both armel and armhf are doing well, covering ~96% of the archive. We > don't have any ARM server hardware yet, so we're stuck using > development boards as build machines. They work, but they're a PITA > for hosting and they're not designed for 24x7 usage like we're doing > so they're not that reliable. As I've posted during DebConf(*), Maybe OpenBlocks can solve this problem. It has 2GB RAM, reliable production use and we can buy it NOW. *) http://lists.debian.org/debian-arm/2012/07/msg7.html I'll continue to communicate with that company, so if you have any questions/ comments/suggestions/request/discount;), please tell me whether on-list or privately. -- Regards, Hideki Yamane henrich @ debian.or.jp/org http://wiki.debian.org/HidekiYamane -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120720085407.c6a160a418086d0a38d7c...@debian.or.jp
Re: ARM port(s) BoF at DebConf
On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 9:15 PM, Adam D. Barratt wrote: > On Thu, 2012-07-19 at 20:09 +0100, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: >> On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 6:35 PM, Steve McIntyre wrote: >> > Both armel and armhf are doing well, covering ~96% of the archive. We > [...] >> (*1) and if someone _really_ wants a debug build of that particular >> problematic package, on a build and distro port that's still >> experimental, well, surely they can compile it themselves, using their >> own resources, yes? > > Neither wheezy nor the armhf port contained in it are experimental. If > that's not what you meant, please be clearer. yes i used the wrong word: apologies. i was trying to convey the following in a concise way, and chose the word "experimental", which i realise in hindsight doesn't cover half of it: "doesn't yet have as many users as e.g. i386/amd64, hasn't been around as long as i386/amd64, hasn't got hardware that the average user can buy at a spec approaching that of i386/amd64 yet, and doesn't have as many packages successfully and reliably building as i386/amd64". btw continuing on the thread on debian-arm (only) i put forward a [temporary!] procedure for review which is an interactive balancing act to relieve the burden of having excessive linker-related loads, moving it down instead to later inconvenience for users. of course, if the package is "perfect" and there *aren't* any bugreports then the interim proposed procedure has done its job. http://lists.debian.org/debian-arm/2012/07/msg00073.html l. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAPweEDxPpxZsPjHf7R=nzem5jibfa1snjsve5hk-b167xqu...@mail.gmail.com
Re: ARM port(s) BoF at DebConf
On Thu, 2012-07-19 at 20:09 +0100, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: > On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 6:35 PM, Steve McIntyre wrote: > > Both armel and armhf are doing well, covering ~96% of the archive. We [...] > (*1) and if someone _really_ wants a debug build of that particular > problematic package, on a build and distro port that's still > experimental, well, surely they can compile it themselves, using their > own resources, yes? Neither wheezy nor the armhf port contained in it are experimental. If that's not what you meant, please be clearer. Regards, Adam -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1342728935.2846.16.ca...@jacala.jungle.funky-badger.org
Re: ARM port(s) BoF at DebConf
On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 6:35 PM, Steve McIntyre wrote: > Both armel and armhf are doing well, covering ~96% of the archive. We > don't have any ARM server hardware yet, so we're stuck using > development boards as build machines. They work, but they're a PITA > for hosting and they're not designed for 24x7 usage like we're doing > so they're not that reliable. there was a post on the arm-netbook mailing list about a 7W quad-core tegra3-based mini ITX motherboard which could take up to 2gb of RAM. whether it's the usual "let's-put-something-out-there-see-if-anyone-is-actually-interested" style of vapourware or actual reality i'd strongly suggest someone gets onto them and considers putting together a group buy / bulk order just to make it worthwhile their time making a batch, because it's literally the first ARM-based machine i've ever heard about that can actually take 2gb of RAM. oh: also the motherboards have eSATA and uPCI-e, hm let me find the post here you go: http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/pipermail/arm-netbook/2012-July/005127.html btw, steve: it's not the c++ doing linking in swap that's the problem, it's trying to do *debug* builds of c++ applications that's the problem. webkit for example requires a minimum of 1.4gb of resident RAM for the linker phase if you enable debug builds. i have mentioned a number of times that it's debug builds that are the problem, and that all you have to do is disable debugging (*1) and the build will complete within 15 minutes instead of 15 hours, but as usual because it's that "fucking moron lkcl telling us what the fuck to do" nobody bothers to listen. well, keep on not listening for as long as you (plural) find it useful to do so: i'm not the one with a PITA for having to wait 18 hours for a debug build of a c++ app to complete, am i, eh? *eyebrows-arched* l. (*1) and if someone _really_ wants a debug build of that particular problematic package, on a build and distro port that's still experimental, well, surely they can compile it themselves, using their own resources, yes? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAPweEDzD1sVfWTUFrt64=drral2fntoagjaqmm8oabyag7d...@mail.gmail.com
ARM port(s) BoF at DebConf
[ Please note the cross-post and Reply-To ] Hi folks, Here's a summary of what we discussed in the ARM ports BoF [1] last week (10th July). Thanks to the awesome efforts of the DebConf video team, the video of the session is already online [2] in case you missed it. I've also attached the Gobby notes that were taken during the session. Again, thanks to the people who took part - we had a very useful discussion. Slides are up on my website [3]. armel = First released with Lenny. Soft-float EABI, Software floating point assumed by default. v4t which also runs smaller-size thumb instruction set. Targeting old hardware like openmoko. Discussed (again!) moving forwards from v4. Declared that v5 is no faster than v4t, but there are doubts elsewhere in the community. Later discussion suggests moving to v5te would be worth it. Some good benchmarks would help - volunteers welcome! armhf = First release will be Wheezy. Targets ARMv7 (latest released version of the ARM family), VFPv3-D16, hard-float version of EABI, assumes hardware floating point unit. Benchmarks show that you get anything from 0 to 20% improvement in real-life code, depending on workload. In any case, you should lose nothing. New agreed standard for ARM Linux, in use across all the distros supporting ARM. Mono does not do useful floating point (yet!), still looking for somebody to help here. libffi issues with variadic functions using floating point. buildds === Both armel and armhf are doing well, covering ~96% of the archive. We don't have any ARM server hardware yet, so we're stuck using development boards as build machines. They work, but they're a PITA for hosting and they're not designed for 24x7 usage like we're doing so they're not that reliable. armel currently using a load of Marvell Feroceon dev boards (v5), armhf on Freescale imx53 dev boards. Both sets of machines are limited in terms of memory, meaning the common large C++ apps are painful to build - linking in swap! elsewhere (starting close, moving further out) == Raspbian Unofficial Debian port for the Raspberry Pi. Built (mostly) using Debian source packages, but targeting ARMv6 hard-float. Works well and forwards-compatible with official (v7) armhf. Not being considered for inclusion into the main Debian archive - we already have two ARM ports. Great work from the folks involved, and we'd love to work with them and help wherever possible. Pi is problematic for kernel and non-free graphics drivers... Ubuntu -- Ubuntu has 2 ARM ports released with 12.04 (LTS): armhf for v7 hard-float and armel for v7 soft-float. armel is slowly being re-targeted / rebuilt for v5 instead (no point in having both ports on v7 only). OpenSUSE OpenSUSE developers are doing 2 ARM ports. Concentrating on v7 hard-float, with a lower priority v5 soft-float port. Hoping for a release with 12.2. Fedora -- Fedora developers are doing 2 ARM ports. Concentrating on v7 hard-float, with a lower priority v5 soft-float port. Did a release of F17 with ARM, but beware of linker path issues. Ongoing discussions in Fedora about whether or not ARM will end up becoming a "primary architecture". As/when/if it does, expect a RedHat release for ARM. Mageia, Gentoo, ChromeOS, Android also doing ARM Linux work with varying amounts of overlap with what we're doing in Debian. New stuff = Newer versions of ARM hardware and software are coming, with new features and requirements that will be useful and we should look into supporting: * virtualisation extensions * LPAE (large physical address extensions) - allows for a 32-bit system but with larger amounts of memory available on the system. Each process still limited to 4GiB address space, but along with virtualisation could be very useful for large servers * UEFI: standard boot architecture and boot loaders. Device tree and ACPI coming too. Should be able to use a single kernel image to support most new hardware once this work filters down. Very useful as commodity ARM-powered machines become more readily available instead of application-specific setups like phones. * ARMv8 - 64-bit capable. More information in the next talk! [1] http://penta.debconf.org/dc12_schedule/events/870.en.html [2] http://meetings-archive.debian.net/pub/debian-meetings/2012/debconf12/high/870_ARM_ports_update.ogv [3] http://www.einval.com/~steve/talks/Debconf12-arm-ports/ -- Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.st...@einval.com "Every time you use Tcl, God kills a kitten." -- Malcolm Ray Please take notes here (not an official ARM talk) armel = First released with Lenny. soft-float EABI. v4t which also runs smaller-size thumb instruction set. Targetting old hardware like openmoko. v5 is no faster than v4t. Software floating point assumed. armhf = First release wi