Re: Base system tarball Q [XTerminal]
On Thu, Jun 18, 1998 at 03:26:11PM +0100, Philip Hands wrote: > You might want to look at the Linux Router Project: > > http://www.psychosis.com/linux-router/ > > which is building a Debian-ish single floppy router. > > Also, it's worth noting that you can format 3.5'' floppies to contain up to > about 2MB, by using bizarre sectors/track settings. This is also mentioned > on > the LRP page. I will check them out...tho I think I may be back to the NFSroot idea... just need to iron out those details. of course...I can't format 3.5" disks at all now: lenny:~# mke2fs /exports/spin/dev/fd0 mke2fs 1.10, 24-Apr-97 for EXT2 FS 0.5b, 95/08/09 end_request: I/O error, dev 02:00, sector 0 mke2fs: Device not configured while trying to determine filesystem size hmm...I havn't tried much off floppies (excpet the base install) since I droppe dthis machine... -STeve -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Base system tarball Q [XTerminal]
You might want to look at the Linux Router Project: http://www.psychosis.com/linux-router/ which is building a Debian-ish single floppy router. Also, it's worth noting that you can format 3.5'' floppies to contain up to about 2MB, by using bizarre sectors/track settings. This is also mentioned on the LRP page. Cheers, Phil. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Base system tarball Q [XTerminal]
On Thu, Jun 18, 1998 at 01:52:17AM -0400, Avery Pennarun wrote: > On Thu, Jun 18, 1998 at 01:23:42AM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > connecting to a host, once I have the IPs needed, what is the nameserver > > needed for? > > Well, you could have a nameserver entry for "xdm-server" (or something) > which is looked up while your X-terminal boots. This does seem pointless to > me, but who's counting. > no comment :) > > > I've done an X terminal on a single 1.44 MB floppy. Almost all of the > > > stuff > > > on the base system is unnecessary: what you really need is a simple init > > > system (calling ifconfig/route), libc, X, XF86Config, and rgb.txt. > > > > wow...I never thought it would fit on 1 floppy...then again... > > hmm but XF86_S3V is over 2 MB :( ohg well back to NFS root :) > > Ah, the joys of inordinate bloat. This was about two years ago, before > libc6 and egcs started doubling the size of things. ahh that explains it...hmm someone mentiond seeing "Small X Servers" on sunsite... > You may be able to > squeeze it on anyway, if you use a compressed ramdisk. (Note that if you > use a ramdisk, you need more than the minimal 4 megs -- but if you use an X > server that large, you probably need more than 4 megs anyway.) I am now planning to use a small root disk which will then NFS mount the rest of the system with the actual Xhmm an internally mounted 3.5" drive with a disk in it 3.5" drives cost $20...disks are almost free (used to be free before AOL switched to CDs..they don't seem to send disks anymore)..so.. its a slow, $20 hard drive :) (and at only 1.44 MB..its close enough to diskless for me) > > > That said, I've also made NFS-rooted X terminals and they're easily fast > > > enough -- once X is loaded, there's no more "disk" access. Mine went > > > from zero to XDM in about 45 seconds (over an ARCnet network, which is > > > slower than ethernet) and needed only 4 megs of RAM to run happily. > > > > Nice nice...what type of systems they runnign on? > > 486DX/33 or 486DX/40 with XF86_S3. It was quite a while ago. Nowadays they > would look pretty slow compared to a "real" computer. Also, I may have been > a bit unclear above -- these really were only X terminals and accessed a > _remote_ xdm server. You can run a full X session in 4 megs, but you'll > have to swap like crazy (which you currently can't do on a diskless client). Ahhh but to quote the NFS-root HOWTO: * There is a patch floating around, that allows for swapping over NFS. It was sent to me (during a private high workload phase), but somehow I managed to loose the mail :( so...it can currently be done...just need to find the patch :) -Steve -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Base system tarball Q [XTerminal]
On Thu, Jun 18, 1998 at 01:23:42AM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > You could copy /etc/resolv.conf and other config files out of the > > server's etc directory. Most of that should be correct (though you'll > > have to do something special for 'nameserver 127.0.0.1' obviously). > > yes definitly...well really...I shouldn't need it...I mean... I am just > connecting to a host, once I have the IPs needed, what is the nameserver > needed for? Well, you could have a nameserver entry for "xdm-server" (or something) which is looked up while your X-terminal boots. This does seem pointless to me, but who's counting. > > I've done an X terminal on a single 1.44 MB floppy. Almost all of the stuff > > on the base system is unnecessary: what you really need is a simple init > > system (calling ifconfig/route), libc, X, XF86Config, and rgb.txt. > > wow...I never thought it would fit on 1 floppy...then again... > on my system X is only 4728 May 5 23:46 X > hmm but XF86_S3V is over 2 MB :( ohg well back to NFS root :) Ah, the joys of inordinate bloat. This was about two years ago, before libc6 and egcs started doubling the size of things. You may be able to squeeze it on anyway, if you use a compressed ramdisk. (Note that if you use a ramdisk, you need more than the minimal 4 megs -- but if you use an X server that large, you probably need more than 4 megs anyway.) > > Most of the useful tools you can use to set up the system can be found in > > the "busybox" package that comes on the Debian rootdisk. Wonderful program, > > that one. > > I will have to check that out...hmm busybox...where is that? Look for the boot-floppies package. > > That said, I've also made NFS-rooted X terminals and they're easily fast > > enough -- once X is loaded, there's no more "disk" access. Mine went > > from zero to XDM in about 45 seconds (over an ARCnet network, which is > > slower than ethernet) and needed only 4 megs of RAM to run happily. > > Nice nice...what type of systems they runnign on? 486DX/33 or 486DX/40 with XF86_S3. It was quite a while ago. Nowadays they would look pretty slow compared to a "real" computer. Also, I may have been a bit unclear above -- these really were only X terminals and accessed a _remote_ xdm server. You can run a full X session in 4 megs, but you'll have to swap like crazy (which you currently can't do on a diskless client). Have fun, Avery -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Base system tarball Q [XTerminal]
On Wed, Jun 17, 1998 at 02:08:05PM -0400, Avery Pennarun wrote: > On Tue, Jun 16, 1998 at 11:49:25PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > I also found out that I hafta do a chroot . bash --login > > once to get it to configure the base system (ie keymap stuff) > > You could copy /etc/resolv.conf and other config files out of the server's > /etc directory. Most of that should be correct (though you'll have to do > something special for 'nameserver 127.0.0.1' obviously). yes definitly...well really...I shouldn't need it...I mean... I am just connecting to a host, once I have the IPs needed, what is the nameserver needed for? > I've done an X terminal on a single 1.44 MB floppy. Almost all of the stuff > on the base system is unnecessary: what you really need is a simple init > system (calling ifconfig/route), libc, X, XF86Config, and rgb.txt. wow...I never thought it would fit on 1 floppy...then again... on my system X is only 4728 May 5 23:46 X hmm but XF86_S3V is over 2 MB :( ohg well back to NFS root :) as for the base system...I do that for flexibility...I mean what if I decide tomorow I want more than X Terminals? maybe I want them to be X Terminals...and PVM hosts :) just add the packages I need to the "System" with chroot. > Most of the useful tools you can use to set up the system can be found in > the "busybox" package that comes on the Debian rootdisk. Wonderful program, > that one. I will have to check that out...hmm busybox...where is that? > That said, I've also made NFS-rooted X terminals and they're easily fast > enough -- once X is loaded, there's no more "disk" access. Mine went from > zero to XDM in about 45 seconds (over an ARCnet network, which is slower > than ethernet) and needed only 4 megs of RAM to run happily. Nice nice...what type of systems they runnign on? > It would be great to see a Debian package that set all this up. It would > also be quite nice to see busybox broken out into its own package. yes It would...in any case I hope to make a little document and web page on how to do it (I just love doing something and then documenting it on a web page) > I may be able to help if you run into any major problems setting up the X > terminal. thats good to know...I have it mostly ready at work now... in fact I have a chroot'd shell..run X..which queries back to xdm which is runnng on the same host (non-chroot'd) and an xfs (also same non-chroot) Now all I need to do is get the NFS mount going and try i twith a real second machine. > Have fun, I plan to :)..with all the problems ive solved..and all the games I have played I never had as much fun with Windows as I do doing this stuff with Linux -Steve -- ** Stephen Carpenter ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** "I am an agnostic; I do not pretend to know what many ignorant men are sure of." -- Clarance Darrow pgp4IkdsDBY75.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Base system tarball Q [XTerminal]
On Tue, Jun 16, 1998 at 11:49:25PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Ok I found out there is no resolv.conf (duh I know..that gets created by > a script when I configure the network...which obviously never happens) > I also found out that I hafta do a chroot . bash --login > once to get it to configure the base system (ie keymap stuff) You could copy /etc/resolv.conf and other config files out of the server's /etc directory. Most of that should be correct (though you'll have to do something special for 'nameserver 127.0.0.1' obviously). I've done an X terminal on a single 1.44 MB floppy. Almost all of the stuff on the base system is unnecessary: what you really need is a simple init system (calling ifconfig/route), libc, X, XF86Config, and rgb.txt. Most of the useful tools you can use to set up the system can be found in the "busybox" package that comes on the Debian rootdisk. Wonderful program, that one. That said, I've also made NFS-rooted X terminals and they're easily fast enough -- once X is loaded, there's no more "disk" access. Mine went from zero to XDM in about 45 seconds (over an ARCnet network, which is slower than ethernet) and needed only 4 megs of RAM to run happily. It would be great to see a Debian package that set all this up. It would also be quite nice to see busybox broken out into its own package. I may be able to help if you run into any major problems setting up the X terminal. Have fun, Avery -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Base system tarball Q [XTerminal]
I have been tossinbg around the idea of using Linux to take a small PC (like a P100 or a 486) and setting it up as a glorified X Terminal. I decided that since debian is clean, and what I use...I will base it on debian. I want to be able to have the system be diskless, and get its entire running filesystem through NFS (that might be too slow? but maybe not?) I figure for this I will need to roo tthe filesystem on NFS...not a problem :). anyway here was the idea and wehat ties into the subject: for a base to start with I make a directory /exports/xterm Then I untar the base tarball from hamm disks-i386 into it. This gives me a nice base system to start with...I have some problems though. Ok I found out there is no resolv.conf (duh I know..that gets created by a script when I configure the network...which obviously never happens) I also found out that I hafta do a chroot . bash --login once to get it to configure the base system (ie keymap stuff) I also found out that once I do that and do a chroot . bash --login I can install apt, and use dpkg/apt to my hearts content...I actually have a functioning system to start with! (and with tht chroot environment its almost like being on the new machine. Still working on setting up X) Anyway...I am not terribly fammiliar with the base system, and I know it is not made to be installed in this way, is there anything I should watch out for? does this sound like a plan? On first inspection the base system looks great, and this method should allow me to just chroot and goto work with dpkg if I need to upgrade... but is there something I am missing on my "first inspection"? I was even thinking it woul dbe nice to be able to take this system and break it down a bit (once its together) and intgrate it with debian so that it would be trivial for someone else with a debian system to add suport for this type of "Poor Man's X Terminal" (That is BTW the title of the document I am writing up on how I am doin gthis) -Steve -- ** Stephen Carpenter ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** "Maturity is often more absurd than youth and very frequently is most unjust to youth" -- Thomas Edison pgpZ5yREExekU.pgp Description: PGP signature
