Re: Bug#294491: RFA: povray -- Persistence of vision raytracer
Daniel Burrows [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It's disheartening because while there seem to be other free ray-tracers out there with even better rendering quality than povray, I've not found one with anything like povray's wonderfully expressive input language -- most other projects seem to follow the all input is giant lists of primitives output by modelling programs method. Anyone know of a similarly expressive alternative to povray? Would it be feasible to create a frontend that takes in a higher-level language and spits out a list of primitives in the format that the better free raytracers understand? That would work for some things, but I suspect it's very hard to approach the richness of what povray offers. In particular, it's probably possible to do this for objects, as long as the underlying tracer supports enough primitive object types (my impression is that some ray-tracers only support primitives like meshes, which I suppose fits well with GUI modelling programs, but seems pretty anemic for anyone used to povray). One of the coolest things about povray is its algorithmic texture support; I have no idea if anything else even gets close. BTW, I don't have much experience with other free ray-tracers; usually I look at them just long enough to get depressed at how impoverished they seem compared with povray (even if they have more solid basic rendering)... Does anyone here have any pointers? -Miles -- Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. -- Jerry Garcia
Re: Bug#294491: RFA: povray -- Persistence of vision raytracer
Brian == Brian May [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: One question: Brian I asked about this a while ago on debian-devel and was told Brian (IIRC) that a major rewrite was happening in order to make Brian Povray DFSG compliant. Brian Is this still the case? Two answers: Jeroen == Jeroen van Wolffelaar [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jeroen No, not really, upstream seems to really want to keep Jeroen development closed and the license too, in fear of rough Jeroen versions/ripoffs of POV-Ray to be used without proper Jeroen acknowledgements, and to prevent any commercial use of the Jeroen software the authors wrote. Jeroen See the POV-Ray newsgroups for more information. Miles == Miles Bader [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [...] Miles 2) Acording to their FAQ, they'd actually rather _like_ Miles to be free-software, but large quantities of their Miles source-base were developed before they had any such Miles concept, and contributor is so muddled that they couldn't Miles easily just relicense everything. Miles 3) There's a suggestion that they may try to change their Miles license to something free after the next big rewrite, Miles planned for the vague medium-term future. Curious; maybe the FAQ is wrong? -- Brian May [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#294491: RFA: povray -- Persistence of vision raytracer
Brian May [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Curious; maybe the FAQ is wrong? It's been a while since I looked at it; maybe the maintainers, and thus attitudes, have changed (for the worse). Alternatively, perhaps the loudest mouths on the mailing list are not representative of the project's long-term goals. However, I've not followed the povray groups for a while (in large part because I was so annoyed by the anti-debian attitude I saw), so I can only assume that Jeroen's impression is more accurate. :-( It's disheartening because while there seem to be other free ray-tracers out there with even better rendering quality than povray, I've not found one with anything like povray's wonderfully expressive input language -- most other projects seem to follow the all input is giant lists of primitives output by modelling programs method. Anyone know of a similarly expressive alternative to povray? -Miles -- Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#294491: RFA: povray -- Persistence of vision raytracer
On Fri, Feb 11, 2005 at 09:01:52AM +1100, Brian May wrote: I asked about this a while ago on debian-devel and was told (IIRC) that a major rewrite was happening in order to make Povray DFSG compliant. Is this still the case? No, not really, upstream seems to really want to keep development closed and the license too, in fear of rough versions/ripoffs of POV-Ray to be used without proper acknowledgements, and to prevent any commercial use of the software the authors wrote. See the POV-Ray newsgroups for more information. --Jeroen -- Jeroen van Wolffelaar [EMAIL PROTECTED] (also for Jabber MSN; ICQ: 33944357) http://Jeroen.A-Eskwadraat.nl -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#294491: RFA: povray -- Persistence of vision raytracer
Pascal Hakim [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: That would be cool. At least one of the povray maintainers has a giant stick up his butt about Debian, something along the lines of The version of povray in Debian stable is old, so DEBIAN SUX0RS IN EVERY IMAGINABLE WAY!@* YARGH#(*!!! LOL! Would this be the same povray that's not in Debian? It's in non-free: Package: povray-3.5 Priority: extra Section: non-free/graphics Installed-Size: 1312 Maintainer: Jeroen van Wolffelaar [EMAIL PROTECTED] Architecture: i386 Version: 3.5.0c-10 Replaces: povray Provides: povray Depends: libc6 (= 2.3.2.ds1-4), libgcc1 (= 1:3.4.1-3), libjpeg62, libpng12-0 (= 1.2.5.0-4), libpvm3, libstdc++5 (= 1:3.3.4-1), libsvga1 | svgalib-dummyg1, libtiff4, libx11-6 | xlibs ( 4.1.0), zlib1g (= 1:1.2.1) Recommends: povray-3.5-includes Suggests: povray-3.5-doc, povray-3.5-examples, pvm, kpovmodeler Conflicts: povray (= 3.50c-4), povray-lib, xpvmpov, povray-misc, povray-doc, povray-manual Filename: pool/non-free/p/povray-3.5/povray-3.5_3.5.0c-10_i386.deb Size: 608666 MD5sum: 886ee27c6fe1a1e90b4d60981c69d05d Description: Persistence of vision raytracer (3D renderer) POV-Ray is a full-featured ray tracer. Ray tracers simulate objects and light sources of the real world to calculate photorealistic, computer generated images. Because of the nature of ray tracing, this process is quite CPU-intensive, at the benefit of more realistic images compared to real time rendering techniques. For example, in POV-Ray, you can model a glass prism, and you will see a spectrum in the resulting image. . This version of POV-Ray supports distributed rendering by means of PVM. . POV-Ray by itself is a command-line utility that will take scene descriptions, written in a special easy-to-understand language, to produce ray-traced images (or even a sequence of images, for animations). You can either write those scene-descriptions by hand, or use external tools to generate (parts of) the scene. . povray-3.5-includes is highly recommended in addition to this package. -Miles -- I'm beginning to think that life is just one long Yoko Ono album; no rhyme or reason, just a lot of incoherent shrieks and then it's over. --Ian Wolff -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#294491: RFA: povray -- Persistence of vision raytracer
On Thu, Feb 10, 2005 at 08:03:02PM +0900, Miles Bader [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pascal Hakim [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: That would be cool. At least one of the povray maintainers has a giant stick up his butt about Debian, something along the lines of The version of povray in Debian stable is old, so DEBIAN SUX0RS IN EVERY IMAGINABLE WAY!@* YARGH#(*!!! LOL! Would this be the same povray that's not in Debian? It's in non-free: Thus not in Debian. Mike -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#294491: RFA: povray -- Persistence of vision raytracer
Mike Hommey [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It's in non-free: Thus not in Debian. Oh cool it's pedants' hour -Miles -- 97% of everything is grunge -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#294491: RFA: povray -- Persistence of vision raytracer
On Thu, Feb 10, 2005 at 01:35:00PM +0900, Miles Bader wrote: Cl?ment Stenac [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm interested in maintainership of PovRay. I'm going to try to update the package to the latest upstream version and to work on some of the bugs That would be cool. At least one of the povray maintainers has a giant stick up his butt about Debian, something along the lines of The version of povray in Debian stable is old, so DEBIAN SUX0RS IN EVERY IMAGINABLE WAY!@* YARGH#(*!!! LOL! Is there any reason to outright insult random software developers here on a public mailinglist, where insults are offtopic anyway? (Hint: no). Please refrain from doing so, not only is it against list policy, unneeded, and annoying, it might also hurt cooperation between prospective Debian povray-maintainer(s) and the povray-team, which so far hasn't been extremely succesful anyway. I'm puzzled how to mix your statements in [1] into this, is this part of the game? --Jeroen [1] http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2005/01/msg00659.html -- Jeroen van Wolffelaar [EMAIL PROTECTED] (also for Jabber MSN; ICQ: 33944357) http://Jeroen.A-Eskwadraat.nl -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#294491: RFA: povray -- Persistence of vision raytracer
Miles == Miles Bader [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Miles Pascal Hakim [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: That would be cool. At least one of the povray maintainers has a giant stick up his butt about Debian, something along the lines of The version of povray in Debian stable is old, so DEBIAN SUX0RS IN EVERY IMAGINABLE WAY!@* YARGH#(*!!! LOL! Would this be the same povray that's not in Debian? Miles It's in non-free: I asked about this a while ago on debian-devel and was told (IIRC) that a major rewrite was happening in order to make Povray DFSG compliant. Is this still the case? -- Brian May [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#294491: RFA: povray -- Persistence of vision raytracer
On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 14:16:54 +0100, Jeroen van Wolffelaar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there any reason to outright insult random software developers here on a public mailinglist, where insults are offtopic anyway? (Hint: no). Please refrain from doing so, not only is it against list policy, unneeded, and annoying, it might also hurt cooperation between prospective Debian povray-maintainer(s) and the povray-team, which so far hasn't been extremely succesful anyway. I'm puzzled how to mix your statements in [1] into this, is this part of the game? Sorry; yes my um, tone was due in large part of annoyance at Debian's treatment on povray groups, but I agree, it is not productive. The crux is that the state of the (non-free) Debian povray package has resulted in general badmouthing of Debian on povray lists. Povray is maybe an interesting case for non-free: 1) They're in non-free because they aren't under a free-software license. 2) Acording to their FAQ, they'd actually rather _like_ to be free-software, but large quantities of their source-base were developed before they had any such concept, and contributor is so muddled that they couldn't easily just relicense everything. 3) There's a suggestion that they may try to change their license to something free after the next big rewrite, planned for the vague medium-term future. So even if povray isn't really part of Debian, good treatment of the non-free povray package might contribute to it eventually becoming so. -Miles p.s. To clarify my position on rudeness: My main beef is with people that respond to otherwise technical discussions or queries by being snarky, arrogant, intentionally vague, and generally rude in response. E.g., if person A says use mail program BLAH, and the response from B is only a moron would use BLAH!. This sort of reply is pretty common, insinuating that A is wrong, but not really saying _why_ (if it did, at least that'd be useful!); I think such responses are very harmful because they discourage people like A from participating in technical discussions without adding anything. If person C then responds to B you're an unhelpful jerk, well maybe that's ultimately less productive than calmly ignoring B -- but it's far more useful than B's response, because it hopefully at least discourages B from using such harmful and useless responses in the future, and demonstrates to A that not everybody is against him. I don't think it's possible or even desirable to remove _all_ rudeness and um, loose language from mailing lists, because people have their off days, perceive language differently, and sometimes frankly people have it coming. You may now respond to this message with You're a jerk! -- Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#294491: RFA: povray -- Persistence of vision raytracer
Package: wnpp Severity: normal I request an adopter for the povray package. I don't really use this package myself anymore, and there are some pending issues in the BTS I keep procrastinating about -- so, I think it's better if someone else, maybe more interested, takes over. Meanwhile, I'll remain trying to get myself to updating the package and fixing outstanding issues. --Jeroen The package description is: POV-Ray is a free, full-featured ray tracer. POV-Ray can run either in text-mode, or can optionally use the X Window System or the SVGA library to preview renderings. -- Jeroen van Wolffelaar [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://jeroen.A-Eskwadraat.nl -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#294491: RFA: povray -- Persistence of vision raytracer
Hello, I'm interested in maintainership of PovRay. I'm going to try to update the package to the latest upstream version and to work on some of the bugs Regards, -- Clément Stenac -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#294491: RFA: povray -- Persistence of vision raytracer
Clément Stenac [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm interested in maintainership of PovRay. I'm going to try to update the package to the latest upstream version and to work on some of the bugs That would be cool. At least one of the povray maintainers has a giant stick up his butt about Debian, something along the lines of The version of povray in Debian stable is old, so DEBIAN SUX0RS IN EVERY IMAGINABLE WAY!@* YARGH#(*!!! LOL! -Miles -- Whatever you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it. Mahatma Ghandi
Re: Bug#294491: RFA: povray -- Persistence of vision raytracer
On Thu, 2005-02-10 at 13:35 +0900, Miles Bader wrote: Clment Stenac [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm interested in maintainership of PovRay. I'm going to try to update the package to the latest upstream version and to work on some of the bugs That would be cool. At least one of the povray maintainers has a giant stick up his butt about Debian, something along the lines of The version of povray in Debian stable is old, so DEBIAN SUX0RS IN EVERY IMAGINABLE WAY!@* YARGH#(*!!! LOL! Would this be the same povray that's not in Debian? Pasc
