Re: Bug#417118: ntpdate: Start sequence problem for some network setups
[Michael Biebl] > That's not quite correct. Upstart not only handles the relationship > between hardware events and services (start ntpdate when network > interface is available and configured) but also between services and > services (start hal when dbus is available etc). Upstart handles the > complete boot process and not only the early boot, as you > suggest. More info on that will follow. I did not say it only handled the kernel events or the early boot, I said it was most useful in the early boot. The reason I said this is that the current Debian boot system is slightly broken in the early boot, because it isn't written to handle a event based kernel. Later in the boot the current boot system actually work as designed. Happy hacking, -- Petter Reinholdtsen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#417118: ntpdate: Start sequence problem for some network setups
Michael Biebl wrote: > Petter Reinholdtsen wrote: >> [Touko Korpela] >>> Is there any ideas to fix this? I'm having same problem with ntp+dnsmasq >> My idea for fixing this is to reorder the sysv boot sequence using >> dependency information, and allow those with special needs to provide >> extra/replacement dependency information in /etc/ to adjust the >> sequence for local needs. I would like to have it implemented for >> Etch, and have proposed it as a release goal. >> >> It is mostly independent of the ideas for switching to upstart, as >> upstart is mostly useful for the early boot where the kernel events >> need to be properly handled by the boot system. It will only affect a > > That's not quite correct. Upstart not only handles the relationship > between hardware events and services (start ntpdate when network > interface is available and configured) but also between services and > services (start hal when dbus is available etc). Upstart handles the > complete boot process and not only the early boot, as you suggest. More > info on that will follow. Btw, static dependencies won't help you for the ntpdate case, as you can't know in advance, when the network is up and ready. That's the beauty and elegance of the upstart approach: Things only happen (meaning services or tasks are started), when the corresponding event occurs resp. the correct state is entered. Michael -- Why is it that all of the instruments seeking intelligent life in the universe are pointed away from Earth? signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Bug#417118: ntpdate: Start sequence problem for some network setups
Petter Reinholdtsen wrote: > [Touko Korpela] >> Is there any ideas to fix this? I'm having same problem with ntp+dnsmasq > > My idea for fixing this is to reorder the sysv boot sequence using > dependency information, and allow those with special needs to provide > extra/replacement dependency information in /etc/ to adjust the > sequence for local needs. I would like to have it implemented for > Etch, and have proposed it as a release goal. > > It is mostly independent of the ideas for switching to upstart, as > upstart is mostly useful for the early boot where the kernel events > need to be properly handled by the boot system. It will only affect a That's not quite correct. Upstart not only handles the relationship between hardware events and services (start ntpdate when network interface is available and configured) but also between services and services (start hal when dbus is available etc). Upstart handles the complete boot process and not only the early boot, as you suggest. More info on that will follow. Cheers, Michael -- Why is it that all of the instruments seeking intelligent life in the universe are pointed away from Earth? signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Bug#417118: ntpdate: Start sequence problem for some network setups
[Touko Korpela] > Is there any ideas to fix this? I'm having same problem with ntp+dnsmasq My idea for fixing this is to reorder the sysv boot sequence using dependency information, and allow those with special needs to provide extra/replacement dependency information in /etc/ to adjust the sequence for local needs. I would like to have it implemented for Etch, and have proposed it as a release goal. It is mostly independent of the ideas for switching to upstart, as upstart is mostly useful for the early boot where the kernel events need to be properly handled by the boot system. It will only affect a few packages. The majority of the 843 packages with init.d scripts do not need to interact with the kernel, so at least for Lenny we do not need to rewrite all boot scripts to get better handling of kernel events. See http://wiki.debian.org/LSBInitScripts/DependencyBasedBoot> for the state of this effort. Happy hacking, -- Petter Reinholdtsen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: upstart (Re: Bug#417118: ntpdate: Start sequence problem for some network setups)
* martin f krafft (Fri, 6 Jul 2007 07:57:57 +0200) > > also sprach Oleg Verych <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007.07.05.1957 +0200]: >> Unless i will see any kind of implemented proposal, i.e. tar or deb >> that i can use/test on base installation, it's a *technical* problem. > > So why don't you use your time to help solve the problem In fact i do use my time now to solve problems. One of those is an alternative to "dpkg filters", after one or two days to be released to you here. Another, as you night notice in this ML, is bug shooting in `dash'. > instead of harping= on mailing lists? Oops, i thought message, i was replying to, is one of those. That's why i did reply in such way actually. Either way, i don't care. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: upstart (Re: Bug#417118: ntpdate: Start sequence problem for some network setups)
also sprach Oleg Verych <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007.07.05.1957 +0200]: > Unless i will see any kind of implemented proposal, i.e. tar or deb > that i can use/test on base installation, it's a *technical* problem. So why don't you use your time to help solve the problem instead of harping on mailing lists? -- Please do not send copies of list mail to me; I read the list! .''`. martin f. krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> : :' : proud Debian developer, author, administrator, and user `. `'` http://people.debian.org/~madduck - http://debiansystem.info `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing systems "to me, vi is zen. to use vi is to practice zen. every command is a koan. profound to the user, unintelligible to the uninitiated. you discover truth everytime you use it." -- reddy ät lion.austin.ibm.com signature.asc Description: Digital signature (GPG/PGP)
upstart (Re: Bug#417118: ntpdate: Start sequence problem for some network setups)
* Hamish Moffatt (Thu, 5 Jul 2007 17:28:20 +1000) > On Thu, Jul 05, 2007 at 02:26:43AM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote: >> On Jul 05, Brian May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> > Marco> Hope that some day we will switch to upstart. >> > Ok, so when do we switch to upstart? >> Probably at the same time when we will switch from exim to postfix. > > That's just religion without technical basis. Unless i will see any kind of implemented proposal, i.e. tar or deb that i can use/test on base installation, it's a *technical* problem. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#417118: ntpdate: Start sequence problem for some network setups
On Thu, Jul 05, 2007 at 02:26:43AM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote: > On Jul 05, Brian May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Marco> Hope that some day we will switch to upstart. > > Ok, so when do we switch to upstart? > Probably at the same time when we will switch from exim to postfix. That's just religion without technical basis. Hamish -- Hamish Moffatt VK3SB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#417118: ntpdate: Start sequence problem for some network setups
On Jul 05, Brian May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Marco> Hope that some day we will switch to upstart. > Ok, so when do we switch to upstart? Probably at the same time when we will switch from exim to postfix. -- ciao, Marco signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#417118: ntpdate: Start sequence problem for some network setups
> "Marco" == Marco d'Itri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Marco> Hope that some day we will switch to upstart. Ok, so when do we switch to upstart? -- Brian May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#417118: ntpdate: Start sequence problem for some network setups
On Jul 04, Martijn van Oosterhout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > In my case the network connection doesn't come up until after I've > logged in and given the pasword for the wireless network. I don't > think upstart is going to fix that. It is. -- ciao, Marco signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#417118: ntpdate: Start sequence problem for some network setups
On Wed, Jul 04, 2007 at 17:11:24 +0200, Martijn van Oosterhout wrote: > On 7/4/07, Marco d'Itri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> On Jul 04, Touko Korpela <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> > Is there any ideas to fix this? I'm having same problem with ntp+dnsmasq >> Hope that some day we will switch to upstart. > > In my case the network connection doesn't come up until after I've > logged in and given the pasword for the wireless network. I don't > think upstart is going to fix that. If I understand upstart right, upstart is the way to fix that. When you log in and type in the password for your wireless connection, the network comes up, and causes a corrensponding event. That event causes the other services to start or at least a restart of those services if necessary. Regards, Tino -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#417118: ntpdate: Start sequence problem for some network setups
On 7/4/07, Marco d'Itri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Jul 04, Touko Korpela <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Is there any ideas to fix this? I'm having same problem with ntp+dnsmasq Hope that some day we will switch to upstart. In my case the network connection doesn't come up until after I've logged in and given the pasword for the wireless network. I don't think upstart is going to fix that. I think there was a workaround so it didn't need the nameservers right away, that would solve the problem for me. Have a nice day, -- Martijn van Oosterhout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://svana.org/kleptog/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#417118: ntpdate: Start sequence problem for some network setups
Touko Korpela wrote: Peter Eisentraut wrote: The network is started by /etc/rc0.d/S35networking, which starts ntpdate when eth0 becomes "up". At that time, the local nameserver is not yet available, it is started by /etc/rc[2345].d/S15bind9. ntpdate cannot resolve the names of the NTP servers and fails. That is really a more general problem: Most network services need name service, so whatever script is run when a network interface comes up will fail. Is there any ideas to fix this? I'm having same problem with ntp+dnsmasq Not a general solution, but an observation. It's fine to start dnsmasq before the network interface(s) are up, as long as the --bind-interfaces option is not used. Cheers, Simon. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#417118: ntpdate: Start sequence problem for some network setups
On Jul 04, Touko Korpela <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Is there any ideas to fix this? I'm having same problem with ntp+dnsmasq Hope that some day we will switch to upstart. -- ciao, Marco signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Bug#417118: ntpdate: Start sequence problem for some network setups
Peter Eisentraut wrote: >> The network is started by /etc/rc0.d/S35networking, which starts ntpdate >> when eth0 becomes "up". At that time, the local nameserver is not yet >> available, it is started by /etc/rc[2345].d/S15bind9. ntpdate cannot >> resolve the names of the NTP servers and fails. >That is really a more general problem: Most network services need name >service, so whatever script is run when a network interface comes up >will fail. Is there any ideas to fix this? I'm having same problem with ntp+dnsmasq -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
