Re: Bug#550860: ITP: gnaughty -- downloader for adult content

[Josselin Mouette]

Le mercredi 14 octobre 2009 à 21:34 +0200, Adam Borowski a écrit : 
> Sure, just remember to file RM bugs for:
> gmailfs
[...]

You can add libgdata, upon which several pieces of GNOME are going to
depend.

Note that GNOME upstreams adopted a much more constructive stance on
that matter: the libgdata dependency was deemed acceptable for an
application only if the functionality it provides is also available
using other services.

-- 
 .''`.  Josselin Mouette
: :' :
`. `'   “I recommend you to learn English in hope that you in
  `- future understand things”  -- Jörg Schilling


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Re: Bug#550860: ITP: gnaughty -- downloader for adult content

[Marco d'Itri]

On Oct 14, Russ Allbery  wrote:

> I'm not sure what we'd do with, say, a free software program whose sole
> and exclusive purpose is to interact with the iTunes music store.  Putting
> it into contrib does feel like nitpicking.
I am: the same thing which we do e.g. with ICQ clients.
It was settled long ago than they are fine material for main.

I feel that here we have again people missing the large picture in their
DFSG-as-a-religion crusade.

-- 
ciao,
Marco


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Re: Bug#550860: ITP: gnaughty -- downloader for adult content

[Mike Hommey]

On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 12:46:48AM +0200, Patrick Matthäi wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Russ Allbery schrieb:
> >> Please move this whole discussion to debian-legal now.
> > 
> > No.  debian-legal is the place for license nit-picking, which isn't what
> > this discussion is about.
> 
> The main discussion is about applications/libs where the sourcecode
> itself is free in the manner of the DFSG, but it is only useable with
> non-free services and something like that, like a software for buying
> music online.
> 
> It is about moving such apps to contrib, because it is free, but
> "depends" on non-free content, which is a DFSG question and so on stuff
> for debian-legal, or I am wrong?

This thread is actually a question for those who decide, that is,
ftp-masters.

Mike


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Re: Bug#550860: ITP: gnaughty -- downloader for adult content

[Russ Allbery]

Patrick Matthäi  writes:

> The main discussion is about applications/libs where the sourcecode
> itself is free in the manner of the DFSG, but it is only useable with
> non-free services and something like that, like a software for buying
> music online.

> It is about moving such apps to contrib, because it is free, but
> "depends" on non-free content, which is a DFSG question and so on stuff
> for debian-legal, or I am wrong?

This is not a legal or license question; Debian is fine either way.  It's
a question about where we want to draw the line between contrib and main,
and all the previous iterations of that discussion have happened on
debian-devel.

debian-legal is just a place to talk about legal issues in Debian.  It has
no special role in the project, unlike debian-devel, and in general is not
a useful place to decide project policy.  Most substantive discussions of
the DFSG, as opposed to its application to a specific unusual license,
happen somewhere other than debian-legal.

Anyway, rather than moving the thread, I think we can probably just end
it, or at least this portion of it.  I don't think there's any remaining
significant substantive disagreement about this specific package and the
DFSG.

-- 
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org)   


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Re: Bug#550860: ITP: gnaughty -- downloader for adult content

[Patrick Matthäi]

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Russ Allbery schrieb:
>> Please move this whole discussion to debian-legal now.
> 
> No.  debian-legal is the place for license nit-picking, which isn't what
> this discussion is about.

The main discussion is about applications/libs where the sourcecode
itself is free in the manner of the DFSG, but it is only useable with
non-free services and something like that, like a software for buying
music online.

It is about moving such apps to contrib, because it is free, but
"depends" on non-free content, which is a DFSG question and so on stuff
for debian-legal, or I am wrong?

- --
/*
Mit freundlichem Gruß / With kind regards,
 Patrick Matthäi
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E-Mail: pmatth...@debian.org
patr...@linux-dev.org

Comment:
Always if we think we are right,
we were maybe wrong.
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Re: Bug#550860: ITP: gnaughty -- downloader for adult content

[Russ Allbery]

Patrick Matthäi  writes:
> Philipp Kern schrieb:
>> On 2009-10-14, Russ Allbery  wrote:

>>> Yeah, it's a bit of a marginal case.  We have, for instance, Perl
>>> modules to talk to the Amazon APIs in main, although in most of those
>>> cases the API is relatively open and some other sites also implement
>>> it.

>> The appearance of Eucalyptus is pretty recent, though.  So you'd need
>> to wait until a free service of an API gets released?  How feature
>> complete does it need to be?  If I release a "compliant" porn directory
>> with only one pic, would that be appropriate?  And I could easily make
>> it non-porn too.

I suspect that the right thing to say is that if the API can be
implemented in free software, the software can go into main, but it's
really hard to figure out how to draw the line with installer packages.

Probably drawing the line between code and data is worthwhile.  If the
package needs to download and install non-free code on the system to run,
it's probably contrib.  If it's just a tool for manipulating data, which
may be non-free, then main is a reasonable place to put it.

>> zsnes used to be in contrib, but somebody made the case that there
>> could be, in fact, free roms, because the way how to program the box is
>> not exactly secret anymore.  (If they would be buildable on Debian is
>> another question.)  It lives in main now and my gut feeling is that
>> it's the right thing to do, given that the code base is free to modify,
>> share and gives you the usual rights of a free software license (here:
>> GPL2).

The ROM thing is a case of the code issue, and is probably more
complicated than programs that deal only with data.

I think, regardless, given the information on this thread, there's no
reason why this program would need to be in contrib.

> Please move this whole discussion to debian-legal now.

No.  debian-legal is the place for license nit-picking, which isn't what
this discussion is about.

-- 
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org)   


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Re: Bug#550860: ITP: gnaughty -- downloader for adult content

[Patrick Matthäi]

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Philipp Kern schrieb:
> On 2009-10-14, Russ Allbery  wrote:
>>> But also if the _free_ software is for downloading etc. pay-only content
>>> like music, I do not think that it has to enter contrib, because it does
>>> not has got a real dependenie on non-free stuff.
>> Yeah, it's a bit of a marginal case.  We have, for instance, Perl modules
>> to talk to the Amazon APIs in main, although in most of those cases the
>> API is relatively open and some other sites also implement it.
> 
> The appearance of Eucalyptus is pretty recent, though.  So you'd need to
> wait until a free service of an API gets released?  How feature complete
> does it need to be?  If I release a "compliant" porn directory with only one
> pic, would that be appropriate?  And I could easily make it non-porn too.
> 
> zsnes used to be in contrib, but somebody made the case that there could
> be, in fact, free roms, because the way how to program the box is not
> exactly secret anymore.  (If they would be buildable on Debian is another
> question.)  It lives in main now and my gut feeling is that it's the right
> thing to do, given that the code base is free to modify, share and gives
> you the usual rights of a free software license (here: GPL2).


Please move this whole discussion to debian-legal now.

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 Patrick Matthäi
 GNU/Linux Debian Developer

E-Mail: pmatth...@debian.org
patr...@linux-dev.org

Comment:
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Re: Bug#550860: ITP: gnaughty -- downloader for adult content

[Philipp Kern]

On 2009-10-14, Russ Allbery  wrote:
>> But also if the _free_ software is for downloading etc. pay-only content
>> like music, I do not think that it has to enter contrib, because it does
>> not has got a real dependenie on non-free stuff.
> Yeah, it's a bit of a marginal case.  We have, for instance, Perl modules
> to talk to the Amazon APIs in main, although in most of those cases the
> API is relatively open and some other sites also implement it.

The appearance of Eucalyptus is pretty recent, though.  So you'd need to
wait until a free service of an API gets released?  How feature complete
does it need to be?  If I release a "compliant" porn directory with only one
pic, would that be appropriate?  And I could easily make it non-porn too.

zsnes used to be in contrib, but somebody made the case that there could
be, in fact, free roms, because the way how to program the box is not
exactly secret anymore.  (If they would be buildable on Debian is another
question.)  It lives in main now and my gut feeling is that it's the right
thing to do, given that the code base is free to modify, share and gives
you the usual rights of a free software license (here: GPL2).

Kind regards,
Philipp Kern


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Re: Bug#550860: ITP: gnaughty -- downloader for adult content

[Michael Gilbert]

On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 23:28:14 +0200, Mike Hommey wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 05:18:33PM -0400, Michael Gilbert wrote:
> > On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 17:13:10 -0400, Michael Gilbert wrote:
> > > On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 16:57:19 -0400, James Vega wrote:
> > > > On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 4:43 PM, Michael Gilbert
> > > >  wrote:
> > > > > On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 22:27:25 +0200, Yves-Alexis Perez wrote:
> > > > >> On mer, 2009-10-14 at 16:23 -0400, Michael Gilbert wrote:
> > > > >> > the key litmus test is: does the application depend solely on 
> > > > >> > non-free
> > > > >> > information to function properly.  these google applications fail
> > > > >> > this test because the licensing of the data itself is at the user's
> > > > >> > discretion.  hence, they are permitted in main.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I don't really think clive use data licensed at the user discretion.
> > > > >
> > > > > i agree, clive only functions properly when it has access to the
> > > > > non-free content on youtube, so it would pass my litmus test, and 
> > > > > should
> > > > > be moved to contrib.
> > > > 
> > > > What makes youtube content (or any of the media content from the many
> > > > other sites clive supports) automatically non-free?  Doesn't it depend
> > > > on how the media's author has decided to license their work?
> > > 
> > > if i recall, youtube has a specific usage agreement (i found [0])
> > > applicable to all of its content, which for all intents and purposes
> > > would likely be declared non-free if reviewed for dfsg-freeness. hence,
> > > access to youtube content through youtube itself would be considered
> > > non-free due to that usage agreement; even though dfsg-free content may
> > > be hosted there.
> > 
> > here are the terms of service for youtube [0].  section 4A alone would
> > be sufficient to declare the service non-free.
> 
> Unless there is a clause saying that no youtube user shall license
> her work under a free license, I see no problem.

IANAL (I Am Not a Lawyer), but from a legal point of view, the rights
granted to you by youtube for content available on their site are
independent of the rights that could be granted to you directly by the
content's copyright holder.  these terms of service apply as soon as
you access the site and make very clear non-free restrictions on all
"User Submissions" regardless of the license choices of the original
copyright holder.

also, according to term 6C, the original copyright holder gave up a
long list of their inherent rights to youtube.  hence, the content
there does not come with the same set of rights as if you had accessed
the content directly from the copyright holder.

mike


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Re: Bug#550860: ITP: gnaughty -- downloader for adult content

[Mike Hommey]

On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 05:18:33PM -0400, Michael Gilbert wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 17:13:10 -0400, Michael Gilbert wrote:
> > On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 16:57:19 -0400, James Vega wrote:
> > > On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 4:43 PM, Michael Gilbert
> > >  wrote:
> > > > On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 22:27:25 +0200, Yves-Alexis Perez wrote:
> > > >> On mer, 2009-10-14 at 16:23 -0400, Michael Gilbert wrote:
> > > >> > the key litmus test is: does the application depend solely on 
> > > >> > non-free
> > > >> > information to function properly.  these google applications fail
> > > >> > this test because the licensing of the data itself is at the user's
> > > >> > discretion.  hence, they are permitted in main.
> > > >>
> > > >> I don't really think clive use data licensed at the user discretion.
> > > >
> > > > i agree, clive only functions properly when it has access to the
> > > > non-free content on youtube, so it would pass my litmus test, and should
> > > > be moved to contrib.
> > > 
> > > What makes youtube content (or any of the media content from the many
> > > other sites clive supports) automatically non-free?  Doesn't it depend
> > > on how the media's author has decided to license their work?
> > 
> > if i recall, youtube has a specific usage agreement (i found [0])
> > applicable to all of its content, which for all intents and purposes
> > would likely be declared non-free if reviewed for dfsg-freeness. hence,
> > access to youtube content through youtube itself would be considered
> > non-free due to that usage agreement; even though dfsg-free content may
> > be hosted there.
> 
> here are the terms of service for youtube [0].  section 4A alone would
> be sufficient to declare the service non-free.

Unless there is a clause saying that no youtube user shall license
her work under a free license, I see no problem.

Mike


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Re: Bug#550860: ITP: gnaughty -- downloader for adult content

[Michael Gilbert]

On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 17:13:10 -0400, Michael Gilbert wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 16:57:19 -0400, James Vega wrote:
> > On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 4:43 PM, Michael Gilbert
> >  wrote:
> > > On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 22:27:25 +0200, Yves-Alexis Perez wrote:
> > >> On mer, 2009-10-14 at 16:23 -0400, Michael Gilbert wrote:
> > >> > the key litmus test is: does the application depend solely on non-free
> > >> > information to function properly.  these google applications fail
> > >> > this test because the licensing of the data itself is at the user's
> > >> > discretion.  hence, they are permitted in main.
> > >>
> > >> I don't really think clive use data licensed at the user discretion.
> > >
> > > i agree, clive only functions properly when it has access to the
> > > non-free content on youtube, so it would pass my litmus test, and should
> > > be moved to contrib.
> > 
> > What makes youtube content (or any of the media content from the many
> > other sites clive supports) automatically non-free?  Doesn't it depend
> > on how the media's author has decided to license their work?
> 
> if i recall, youtube has a specific usage agreement (i found [0])
> applicable to all of its content, which for all intents and purposes
> would likely be declared non-free if reviewed for dfsg-freeness. hence,
> access to youtube content through youtube itself would be considered
> non-free due to that usage agreement; even though dfsg-free content may
> be hosted there.

here are the terms of service for youtube [0].  section 4A alone would
be sufficient to declare the service non-free.

mike

[0] http://www.youtube.com/t/terms


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Re: Bug#550860: ITP: gnaughty -- downloader for adult content

[Michael Gilbert]

On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 16:57:19 -0400, James Vega wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 4:43 PM, Michael Gilbert
>  wrote:
> > On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 22:27:25 +0200, Yves-Alexis Perez wrote:
> >> On mer, 2009-10-14 at 16:23 -0400, Michael Gilbert wrote:
> >> > the key litmus test is: does the application depend solely on non-free
> >> > information to function properly.  these google applications fail
> >> > this test because the licensing of the data itself is at the user's
> >> > discretion.  hence, they are permitted in main.
> >>
> >> I don't really think clive use data licensed at the user discretion.
> >
> > i agree, clive only functions properly when it has access to the
> > non-free content on youtube, so it would pass my litmus test, and should
> > be moved to contrib.
> 
> What makes youtube content (or any of the media content from the many
> other sites clive supports) automatically non-free?  Doesn't it depend
> on how the media's author has decided to license their work?

if i recall, youtube has a specific usage agreement (i found [0])
applicable to all of its content, which for all intents and purposes
would likely be declared non-free if reviewed for dfsg-freeness. hence,
access to youtube content through youtube itself would be considered
non-free due to that usage agreement; even though dfsg-free content may
be hosted there.

i've never used clive so i do not know what the usage agreements say
for the other supported video sites.

mike

[0] http://code.google.com/apis/youtube/terms.html


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Re: Bug#550860: ITP: gnaughty -- downloader for adult content

[James Vega]

On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 4:43 PM, Michael Gilbert
 wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 22:27:25 +0200, Yves-Alexis Perez wrote:
>> On mer, 2009-10-14 at 16:23 -0400, Michael Gilbert wrote:
>> > the key litmus test is: does the application depend solely on non-free
>> > information to function properly.  these google applications fail
>> > this test because the licensing of the data itself is at the user's
>> > discretion.  hence, they are permitted in main.
>>
>> I don't really think clive use data licensed at the user discretion.
>
> i agree, clive only functions properly when it has access to the
> non-free content on youtube, so it would pass my litmus test, and should
> be moved to contrib.

What makes youtube content (or any of the media content from the many
other sites clive supports) automatically non-free?  Doesn't it depend
on how the media's author has decided to license their work?


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Re: Bug#550860: ITP: gnaughty -- downloader for adult content

[Jakub Wilk]

* Adam Borowski , 2009-10-14, 21:34:

A software which requires access to non-free documents over the
network to work at all shouldn't go into main.  It seems that gnaughty
is currently in that category.


Sure, just remember to file RM bugs for:
gmailfs


Not a very good example:
http://bugs.debian.org/540773

--
Jakub Wilk


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Re: Bug#550860: ITP: gnaughty -- downloader for adult content

[Michael Gilbert]

On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 22:27:25 +0200, Yves-Alexis Perez wrote:
> On mer, 2009-10-14 at 16:23 -0400, Michael Gilbert wrote:
> > the key litmus test is: does the application depend solely on non-free
> > information to function properly.  these google applications fail
> > this test because the licensing of the data itself is at the user's
> > discretion.  hence, they are permitted in main.
> 
> I don't really think clive use data licensed at the user discretion.

i agree, clive only functions properly when it has access to the
non-free content on youtube, so it would pass my litmus test, and should
be moved to contrib.

> This whole thread is just pointless.

it is certainly worth pondering and deliberating on the issue since up
to this point there is no concrete debian policy on the matter.

mike


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Re: Bug#550860: ITP: gnaughty -- downloader for adult content

[Michael Gilbert]

On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 21:48:19 +0200, Mehdi Dogguy wrote:
> Florian Weimer a écrit :
> > 
> > A software which requires access to non-free documents over the
> > network to work at all shouldn't go into main.  It seems that gnaughty
> > is currently in that category.
> > 
> rtm (from awn-applets-python-extras) is such a program. Should it go out
> from main?
> tasque lets the user use the service rememberthemilk too, should it go
> out too?
> and how about tucan?

i couldn't find rtm, but tasque and tucan fail my proposed litmus test
(does the application depend solely on non-free information to function
properly) because the data itself is licensed at the users discretion.
hence, these applications are permitted in main.

see hannah-foo2zjs, which was split from foo2zjs and put in contrib
because it is a script who's sole purpose is to fetch non-free printer
firmwares; or ttf-mathmatica whose sole purpose is to fetch non-free
fonts.

mike


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Re: Bug#550860: ITP: gnaughty -- downloader for adult content

[Yves-Alexis Perez]

On mer, 2009-10-14 at 16:23 -0400, Michael Gilbert wrote:
> the key litmus test is: does the application depend solely on non-free
> information to function properly.  these google applications fail
> this test because the licensing of the data itself is at the user's
> discretion.  hence, they are permitted in main.

I don't really think clive use data licensed at the user discretion.
This whole thread is just pointless.

-- 
Yves-Alexis


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Re: Bug#550860: ITP: gnaughty -- downloader for adult content

[Michael Gilbert]

On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 21:34:28 +0200, Adam Borowski wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 07:27:07PM +, Florian Weimer wrote:
> > > I could just put up a site with CC porn, then. Aren't we supposed
> > > not to discriminate against fields of endeavour?
> > 
> > A software which requires access to non-free documents over the
> > network to work at all shouldn't go into main.  It seems that gnaughty
> > is currently in that category.
> 
> Sure, just remember to file RM bugs for:
> gmailfs
> googlizer
> libwww-google-calculator-perl
> opensync-plugin-google-calendar
> python-libgmail
> akonadi-kde-resource-googledata
> clive
> gcalcli
> gmail-notify
> tryton-modules-google-maps
> calendar-google-provider
> (picking on just Google)

the key litmus test is: does the application depend solely on non-free
information to function properly.  these google applications fail
this test because the licensing of the data itself is at the user's
discretion.  hence, they are permitted in main.

mike


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Re: Bug#550860: ITP: gnaughty -- downloader for adult content

[Russ Allbery]

Patrick Matthäi  writes:
> Russ Allbery schrieb:
>> Rodrigo Gallardo  writes:

>>> I could just put up a site with CC porn, then. Aren't we supposed not
>>> to discriminate against fields of endeavour?

>> The package description strongly implies that gnaughty works only with
>> one specific porn index or download service, which is presumably
>> non-free.  If this is not the case, the proposed package description
>> should be fixed.

> Seems like the description has to be fixed, there is no pay-only content
> and it has included some more download sources, not only one "vendor".

Oh, okay.  I think that's much of what was confusing people.  I know I
read the package description as being tied to a particular service
originally as well.

> But also if the _free_ software is for downloading etc. pay-only content
> like music, I do not think that it has to enter contrib, because it does
> not has got a real dependenie on non-free stuff.

Yeah, it's a bit of a marginal case.  We have, for instance, Perl modules
to talk to the Amazon APIs in main, although in most of those cases the
API is relatively open and some other sites also implement it.

I'm not sure what we'd do with, say, a free software program whose sole
and exclusive purpose is to interact with the iTunes music store.  Putting
it into contrib does feel like nitpicking.

-- 
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org)   


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Re: Bug#550860: ITP: gnaughty -- downloader for adult content

[Peter Samuelson]

> Russ Allbery schrieb:
> > The package description strongly implies that gnaughty works only
> > with one specific porn index or download service, which is
> > presumably non-free.  If this is not the case, the proposed package
> > description should be fixed.

[Patrick Matthäi]
> Seems like the description has to be fixed, there is no pay-only
> content and it has included some more download sources, not only one
> "vendor".

Wow, when did 'non-free' and 'pay-only' become synonymous?  Is this
debian-devel, or ZDnet?


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Re: Bug#550860: ITP: gnaughty -- downloader for adult content

[Adam Borowski]

On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 07:27:07PM +, Florian Weimer wrote:
> > I could just put up a site with CC porn, then. Aren't we supposed
> > not to discriminate against fields of endeavour?
> 
> A software which requires access to non-free documents over the
> network to work at all shouldn't go into main.  It seems that gnaughty
> is currently in that category.

Sure, just remember to file RM bugs for:
gmailfs
googlizer
libwww-google-calculator-perl
opensync-plugin-google-calendar
python-libgmail
akonadi-kde-resource-googledata
clive
gcalcli
gmail-notify
tryton-modules-google-maps
calendar-google-provider
(picking on just Google)

-- 
1KB // Microsoft corollary to Hanlon's razor:
//  Never attribute to stupidity what can be
//  adequately explained by malice.


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Re: Bug#550860: ITP: gnaughty -- downloader for adult content

[Stefano Zacchiroli]

On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 01:10:39PM -0500, Gunnar Wolf wrote:
> Neil Williams dijo [Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 07:03:07PM +0100]:
> > My bank statements are non-free but iceweasel isn't in contrib.
> 
> Shame on you, were it not for that selfish standpoint we would have a
> freer, more open world!

Also, I'd like to argue on the freeness of Neil's bank account access
codes.  Either he surrenders them, or I threaten to upload an NMU of
*him* to non-free.  And good luck with auto-building.

SCNR

-- 
Stefano Zacchiroli -o- PhD in Computer Science \ PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7
z...@{upsilon.cc,pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -<>- http://upsilon.cc/zack/
Dietro un grande uomo c'è ..|  .  |. Et ne m'en veux pas si je te tutoie
sempre uno zaino ...| ..: | Je dis tu à tous ceux que j'aime


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Re: Bug#550860: ITP: gnaughty -- downloader for adult content

[Mehdi Dogguy]

Florian Weimer a écrit :
> 
> A software which requires access to non-free documents over the
> network to work at all shouldn't go into main.  It seems that gnaughty
> is currently in that category.
> 

rtm (from awn-applets-python-extras) is such a program. Should it go out
from main?
tasque lets the user use the service rememberthemilk too, should it go
out too?
and how about tucan?

(I'm sure there are a lot of other examples)

Cheers,

-- 
Mehdi Dogguy مهدي الدڤي
http://dogguy.org/


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Re: Bug#550860: ITP: gnaughty -- downloader for adult content

[Patrick Matthäi]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Russ Allbery schrieb:
> Rodrigo Gallardo  writes:
> 
>> I could just put up a site with CC porn, then. Aren't we supposed not
>> to discriminate against fields of endeavour?
> 
> The package description strongly implies that gnaughty works only with one
> specific porn index or download service, which is presumably non-free.  If
> this is not the case, the proposed package description should be fixed.
> 

Seems like the description has to be fixed, there is no pay-only content
and it has included some more download sources, not only one "vendor".

But also if the _free_ software is for downloading etc. pay-only content
like music, I do not think that it has to enter contrib, because it does
not has got a real dependenie on non-free stuff.

- --
/*
Mit freundlichem Gruß / With kind regards,
 Patrick Matthäi
 GNU/Linux Debian Developer

E-Mail: pmatth...@debian.org
patr...@linux-dev.org

Comment:
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Re: Bug#550860: ITP: gnaughty -- downloader for adult content

[Russ Allbery]

Rodrigo Gallardo  writes:

> I could just put up a site with CC porn, then. Aren't we supposed not
> to discriminate against fields of endeavour?

The package description strongly implies that gnaughty works only with one
specific porn index or download service, which is presumably non-free.  If
this is not the case, the proposed package description should be fixed.

-- 
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org)   


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Re: Bug#550860: ITP: gnaughty -- downloader for adult content

[Florian Weimer]

* Rodrigo Gallardo:

> I could just put up a site with CC porn, then. Aren't we supposed
> not to discriminate against fields of endeavour?

A software which requires access to non-free documents over the
network to work at all shouldn't go into main.  It seems that gnaughty
is currently in that category.


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Re: Bug#550860: ITP: gnaughty -- downloader for adult content

[Patrick Schoenfeld]

On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 11:52:48AM -0700, Rodrigo Gallardo wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 08:30:16PM +0200, Patrick Schoenfeld wrote:
> > On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 07:03:07PM +0100, Neil Williams wrote:
> > > On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 17:41:14 +
> > > Florian Weimer  wrote:
> > > 
> > > > * Michal Čihař:
> > > > 
> > > > >> Can gnaughty download anything other than porn?
> > > > >
> > > > > Not really without patching the source.
> > > > 
> > > > And the content is non-free, right?  Then it should go into contrib.
> > > 
> > > My bank statements are non-free but iceweasel isn't in contrib.
> > 
> > And iceweasel is limited to downloading your bank statements?
> > Is that true?
> 
> I could just put up a site with CC porn, then. Aren't we supposed not
> to discriminate against fields of endeavour?

I didn't say anything about that. Just wanted to point out that
the comparison doesn't work.

My opinion about those porn-related software is more liberal,
then those I often read on Debian-related lists. With respect to
sexuality it sometimes seems that common sense gets lost. Having
software which is dedicated and defaulting at a certain field
of endeavour is okay, but oh-no-oh-no not if sexuality is involved.

Best Regards,
Patrick


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Re: Bug#550860: ITP: gnaughty -- downloader for adult content

[Rodrigo Gallardo]

On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 08:30:16PM +0200, Patrick Schoenfeld wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 07:03:07PM +0100, Neil Williams wrote:
> > On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 17:41:14 +
> > Florian Weimer  wrote:
> > 
> > > * Michal Čihař:
> > > 
> > > >> Can gnaughty download anything other than porn?
> > > >
> > > > Not really without patching the source.
> > > 
> > > And the content is non-free, right?  Then it should go into contrib.
> > 
> > My bank statements are non-free but iceweasel isn't in contrib.
> 
> And iceweasel is limited to downloading your bank statements?
> Is that true?

I could just put up a site with CC porn, then. Aren't we supposed not
to discriminate against fields of endeavour?


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Re: Bug#550860: ITP: gnaughty -- downloader for adult content

[Patrick Schoenfeld]

On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 07:03:07PM +0100, Neil Williams wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 17:41:14 +
> Florian Weimer  wrote:
> 
> > * Michal Čihař:
> > 
> > >> Can gnaughty download anything other than porn?
> > >
> > > Not really without patching the source.
> > 
> > And the content is non-free, right?  Then it should go into contrib.
> 
> My bank statements are non-free but iceweasel isn't in contrib.

And iceweasel is limited to downloading your bank statements?
Is that true?

Regards,
Patrick


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Re: Bug#550860: ITP: gnaughty -- downloader for adult content

[Gunnar Wolf]

Neil Williams dijo [Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 07:03:07PM +0100]:
> > >> Can gnaughty download anything other than porn?
> > >
> > > Not really without patching the source.
> > 
> > And the content is non-free, right?  Then it should go into contrib.
> 
> My bank statements are non-free but iceweasel isn't in contrib.

Shame on you, were it not for that selfish standpoint we would have a
freer, more open world!

-- 
Gunnar Wolf • gw...@gwolf.org • (+52-55)5623-0154 / 1451-2244


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Re: Bug#550860: ITP: gnaughty -- downloader for adult content

[Neil Williams]

On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 17:41:14 +
Florian Weimer  wrote:

> * Michal Čihař:
> 
> >> Can gnaughty download anything other than porn?
> >
> > Not really without patching the source.
> 
> And the content is non-free, right?  Then it should go into contrib.

My bank statements are non-free but iceweasel isn't in contrib.

-- 


Neil Williams
=
http://www.data-freedom.org/
http://www.linux.codehelp.co.uk/
http://e-mail.is-not-s.ms/



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Re: Bug#550860: ITP: gnaughty -- downloader for adult content

[Patrick Matthäi]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Florian Weimer schrieb:
> * Michal Čihař:
> 
>>> Can gnaughty download anything other than porn?
>> Not really without patching the source.
> 
> And the content is non-free, right?  Then it should go into contrib.

Maybe there is some Open-Porn available, ftp-masters have to test it
out. :-)

- --
/*
Mit freundlichem Gruß / With kind regards,
 Patrick Matthäi
 GNU/Linux Debian Developer

E-Mail: pmatth...@debian.org
patr...@linux-dev.org

Comment:
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we were maybe wrong.
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Re: Bug#550860: ITP: gnaughty -- downloader for adult content

[Florian Weimer]

* Michal Čihař:

>> Can gnaughty download anything other than porn?
>
> Not really without patching the source.

And the content is non-free, right?  Then it should go into contrib.


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Re: Bug#550860: ITP: gnaughty -- downloader for adult content

[Michal Čihař]

Hi

Dne Wed, 14 Oct 2009 09:14:01 +1100
Russell Coker  napsal(a):

> On Wed, 14 Oct 2009, Michal Čihař  wrote:
> > > >   Description     : downloader for adult content
> > > >
> > > > Program to automatically download adult sex content, i.e. porn movies
> > > > and pictures, from a known internet porn directory.
> > > >
> > > > Providing a friendly interface, users who feel like having some porn
> > > > can have it served fastly and directly to their desktop.
> > >
> > > Do you know about bug 283578 ?
> >
> > Yes, but the main objections there was that it includes the picture.
> > This tool is just a downloader. You can also use Iceweasel, wget or
> > anything else to download same things.
> 
> Can gnaughty download anything other than porn?

Not really without patching the source.

-- 
Michal Čihař | http://cihar.com | http://blog.cihar.com


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Re: Bug#550860: ITP: gnaughty -- downloader for adult content

[Josselin Mouette]

Le mercredi 14 octobre 2009 à 09:14 +1100, Russell Coker a écrit : 
> Can gnaughty download anything other than porn?

What if it cannot? Does it change anything?

-- 
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  `- future understand things”  -- Jörg Schilling


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Re: Bug#550860: ITP: gnaughty -- downloader for adult content

[martin f krafft]

> Do you know about bug 283578 ?

The name 'hot-babe' referenced a gender. gnaughty references
a natural tendency (and a graphical toolkit). I don't see how
#550860 is any different from a normal ITP for the Universal
Operating System, and should thus not receive any more attention.

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il faut aimer caresser les chats
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Re: Bug#550860: ITP: gnaughty -- downloader for adult content

[Russell Coker]

On Wed, 14 Oct 2009, Michal Čihař  wrote:
> > >   Description     : downloader for adult content
> > >
> > > Program to automatically download adult sex content, i.e. porn movies
> > > and pictures, from a known internet porn directory.
> > >
> > > Providing a friendly interface, users who feel like having some porn
> > > can have it served fastly and directly to their desktop.
> >
> > Do you know about bug 283578 ?
>
> Yes, but the main objections there was that it includes the picture.
> This tool is just a downloader. You can also use Iceweasel, wget or
> anything else to download same things.

Can gnaughty download anything other than porn?

-- 
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Re: Bug#550860: ITP: gnaughty -- downloader for adult content

[Michal Čihař]

Hi

Dne Tue, 13 Oct 2009 17:58:01 +0200
Frederic Peters  napsal(a):

> Michal Čihař wrote:
> 
> > * Package name: gnaughty
> >   Version : 1.2.0
> >   Upstream Author : Troy McClure 
> > * URL : http://gnaughty.sourceforge.net/
> > * License : GPL
> >   Programming Lang: C
> >   Description : downloader for adult content
> > 
> > Program to automatically download adult sex content, i.e. porn movies
> > and pictures, from a known internet porn directory.
> > 
> > Providing a friendly interface, users who feel like having some porn can
> > have it served fastly and directly to their desktop.
> 
> Do you know about bug 283578 ?

Yes, but the main objections there was that it includes the picture.
This tool is just a downloader. You can also use Iceweasel, wget or
anything else to download same things.

-- 
Michal Čihař | http://cihar.com | http://blog.cihar.com


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Re: Bug#550860: ITP: gnaughty -- downloader for adult content

[Michael Banck]

On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 04:24:02PM +0200, Michal ??iha?? wrote:
> * Package name: gnaughty

Gnome projects starting with a 'g' are lame.


Michael


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Re: Bug#550860: ITP: gnaughty -- downloader for adult content

[Mike Hommey]

On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 05:58:01PM +0200, Frederic Peters wrote:
> Michal Čihař wrote:
> 
> > * Package name: gnaughty
> >   Version : 1.2.0
> >   Upstream Author : Troy McClure 
> > * URL : http://gnaughty.sourceforge.net/
> > * License : GPL
> >   Programming Lang: C
> >   Description : downloader for adult content
> > 
> > Program to automatically download adult sex content, i.e. porn movies
> > and pictures, from a known internet porn directory.
> > 
> > Providing a friendly interface, users who feel like having some porn can
> > have it served fastly and directly to their desktop.
> 
> Do you know about bug 283578 ?

Arguably, while hot-babe did contain "hot" pictures, gnaughty only is a
GUI to get them and doesn't provide them. Or at least that is what the
description above says.

Mike


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Re: Bug#550860: ITP: gnaughty -- downloader for adult content

[Frederic Peters]

Michal Čihař wrote:

> * Package name: gnaughty
>   Version : 1.2.0
>   Upstream Author : Troy McClure 
> * URL : http://gnaughty.sourceforge.net/
> * License : GPL
>   Programming Lang: C
>   Description : downloader for adult content
> 
> Program to automatically download adult sex content, i.e. porn movies
> and pictures, from a known internet porn directory.
> 
> Providing a friendly interface, users who feel like having some porn can
> have it served fastly and directly to their desktop.

Do you know about bug 283578 ?


Frederic


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