Re: FIX FOR HAMM: timezone problem
Dale Scheetz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This is very strange, as US/Central and CST6CDT are both links to Americal/Chicago in the 2.0.7 version that I am building for release today. The 2.0.7pre3 (which I have currently installed) seems to have these as separate files. Which version was the report logged against? My timezones now says 2.0.7pre3-1. However, the original report could very well have been with a previous version -- I don't watch the upgrades on these things terribly closely. Ok, fair enough. I'm assuming you have the same program versions installed as I do? Do you have your hardware clock set to UTC or local time? (Someone said this is a red herring, but I'd like to know that for certain). The important thing is, if the hardware clock is set to UTC, then the init script should set the GMT variable to -u (Possibly --utc?). If the hardware clock is set to Local Time, then GMT should be set to . With these two issues properly sync'd things should work properly. Luck, Dwarf -- _-_-_-_-_- Author of The Debian Linux User's Guide _-_-_-_-_-_- aka Dale Scheetz Phone: 1 (850) 656-9769 Flexible Software 11000 McCrackin Road e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tallahassee, FL 32308 _-_-_-_-_-_- If you don't see what you want, just ask _-_-_-_-_-_-_- -- John Goerzen Linux, Unix consulting programming [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Developer, Debian GNU/Linux (Free powerful OS upgrade) www.debian.org | + Visit the Air Capitol Linux Users Group on the web at http://www.aclug.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FIX FOR HAMM: timezone problem
Nathan E Norman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: : It didn't work here. I use xntp3 to sync my clock, and it would : always get set to Eastern time until I changed to CST6CDT. After : making that change, it now gives results like yours. Ok, fair enough. I'm assuming you have the same program versions installed as I do? Do you have your hardware clock set to UTC or local time? (Someone said this is a red herring, but I'd like to know that for certain). My clock is supposedly set to UTC. When I originally installed, it wasn't, and there was no documentation for changing it, but I figured that I needed to add a -u to the appropriate init script. Here then is /etc/init.d/hwclock.sh: GMT=-u # # Set and adjust the CMOS clock. # if [ ! -f /etc/adjtime ] then echo 0.0 0 0.0 /etc/adjtime fi if [ -x /sbin/hwclock ] then [ $GMT = -u ] GMT=--utc hwclock --adjust $GMT hwclock --hctosys $GMT else [ $GMT = --utc ] GMT=-u clock -a $GMT fi # # Now that /usr/lib/zoneinfo should be available, # announce the local time. # if [ $VERBOSE != no ] then echo echo Local time: `date` echo fi Mine is set to UTC. -- Nathan Norman MidcoNet - 410 South Phillips Avenue - Sioux Falls, SD 57104 Cool; my uncle lives just outside Sioux Falls and works there. He also is a volunteer chairman for the Minn-Kota sale in the Arena each year, if you've ever been to it. -- John Goerzen Linux, Unix consulting programming [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Developer, Debian GNU/Linux (Free powerful OS upgrade) www.debian.org | + Visit the Air Capitol Linux Users Group on the web at http://www.aclug.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FIX FOR HAMM: timezone problem
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], John Goerzen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My clock is supposedly set to UTC. When I originally installed, it wasn't, and there was no documentation for changing it, but I figured that I needed to add a -u to the appropriate init script. Here then is /etc/init.d/hwclock.sh: You can set it in /etc/default/rcS, just as all the other variables for the init startup scripts .. But that doesn't work with file-rc. I'm uploading a sysvinit_2.75-3 tomorrow morning to solve the file-rc problems. Which are release-critical, btw. Mike. -- Miquel van Smoorenburg | Our vision is to speed up time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] | eventually eliminating it. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FIX FOR HAMM: timezone problem
Nathan E Norman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What exactly makes you say that the central timezone doesn't deal with DST? If you mean US/Central I will have to disagree with you. :) It works fine here. It didn't work here. I use xntp3 to sync my clock, and it would always get set to Eastern time until I changed to CST6CDT. After making that change, it now gives results like yours. kepler:~ $ cat /etc/timezone US/Central kepler:~ $ date Tue Jun 16 13:27:25 CDT 1998 kepler:~ $ date --utc Tue Jun 16 18:27:29 UTC 1998 kepler:~ $ ps awx | grep xntp 279 ? S0:01 /usr/sbin/xntpd Where's the problem? I'm confused. -- Nathan Norman MidcoNet - 410 South Phillips Avenue - Sioux Falls, SD 57104 mailto://[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.midco.net finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP Key: (0xA33B86E9) [ package info ] kepler:~ $ dpkg -l timezones Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge | Status=Not/Installed/Config-files/Unpacked/Failed-config/Half-installed |/ Err?=(none)/Hold/Reinst-required/X=both-problems (Status,Err: uppercase=bad) ||/ NameVersionDescription +++-===-==- ii timezones 2.0.7pre1-4Time zone data files and utilities. kepler:~ $ dpkg -l timezone Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge | Status=Not/Installed/Config-files/Unpacked/Failed-config/Half-installed |/ Err?=(none)/Hold/Reinst-required/X=both-problems (Status,Err: uppercase=bad) ||/ NameVersionDescription +++-===-==- pn timezonenone (no description available) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- John Goerzen Linux, Unix consulting programming [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Developer, Debian GNU/Linux (Free powerful OS upgrade) www.debian.org | + Visit the Air Capitol Linux Users Group on the web at http://www.aclug.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FIX FOR HAMM: timezone problem
OK then, just to recap -- US/Central was off by an hour (giving me
Eastern instead of Central time when syncing with xntp3).
Here is my etc/init.d/hwclock.sh:
GMT=-u
#
# Set and adjust the CMOS clock.
#
if [ ! -f /etc/adjtime ]
then
echo 0.0 0 0.0 /etc/adjtime
fi
if [ -x /sbin/hwclock ]
then
[ $GMT = -u ] GMT=--utc
hwclock --adjust $GMT
hwclock --hctosys $GMT
else
[ $GMT = --utc ] GMT=-u
clock -a $GMT
fi
#
# Now that /usr/lib/zoneinfo should be available,
# announce the local time.
#
if [ $VERBOSE != no ]
then
echo
echo Local time: `date`
echo
fi
David Engel [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On Tue, Jun 16, 1998 at 02:00:41PM -0400, Dale Scheetz wrote:
Sorry to have stayed out of this but I have been busy...
Bottom line...tzconfig is broken.
If you look at the list provided under US there is an entry of
Indiana-Eastern, and Arizona... as well. These should be linked to their
non-DST configuration. The ones that say eastern, and central, and
mountain, and pacific, should all understand daylight shaving time. (Bill,
I hate daylight shavings time)
The central timezone provided by tzconfig is broken, in that it clearly
doesn't deal with DST correctly. I believe I have heard of this problem
before. I guess it is time to look at the guts of this and figure out how
to fix it.
I'm pretty sure you are mistaken, Dale. I seriously doubt that there
is anything wrong with the timezone files or tzconfig. I no longer
have the original problem report on hand, but I suspect the problem
was caused by either an incorrectly set CMOS clock or incorrect
use/non-use of the hwclock -u option in /etc/init.d/hwclock.sh.
FYI, the US/{Eastern,Central,Mountain,Pacific} timezones do use DST
and the US/{Arizona,East-Indiana,Hawaii} timezones don't. I'm not
sure about the others, but I'd bet that they are correct also.
David
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Re: FIX FOR HAMM: timezone problem
On 19 Jun 1998, John Goerzen wrote: : Nathan E Norman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: : : What exactly makes you say that the central timezone doesn't deal with : DST? If you mean US/Central I will have to disagree with you. :) It : works fine here. : : It didn't work here. I use xntp3 to sync my clock, and it would : always get set to Eastern time until I changed to CST6CDT. After : making that change, it now gives results like yours. Ok, fair enough. I'm assuming you have the same program versions installed as I do? Do you have your hardware clock set to UTC or local time? (Someone said this is a red herring, but I'd like to know that for certain). Mine is set to UTC. -- Nathan Norman MidcoNet - 410 South Phillips Avenue - Sioux Falls, SD 57104 mailto://[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.midco.net finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP Key: (0xA33B86E9) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FIX FOR HAMM: timezone problem
On Sat, 20 Jun 1998, Nathan E Norman wrote: On 19 Jun 1998, John Goerzen wrote: : Nathan E Norman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: : : What exactly makes you say that the central timezone doesn't deal with : DST? If you mean US/Central I will have to disagree with you. :) It : works fine here. : : It didn't work here. I use xntp3 to sync my clock, and it would : always get set to Eastern time until I changed to CST6CDT. After : making that change, it now gives results like yours. This is very strange, as US/Central and CST6CDT are both links to Americal/Chicago in the 2.0.7 version that I am building for release today. The 2.0.7pre3 (which I have currently installed) seems to have these as separate files. Which version was the report logged against? Ok, fair enough. I'm assuming you have the same program versions installed as I do? Do you have your hardware clock set to UTC or local time? (Someone said this is a red herring, but I'd like to know that for certain). The important thing is, if the hardware clock is set to UTC, then the init script should set the GMT variable to -u (Possibly --utc?). If the hardware clock is set to Local Time, then GMT should be set to . With these two issues properly sync'd things should work properly. Luck, Dwarf -- _-_-_-_-_- Author of The Debian Linux User's Guide _-_-_-_-_-_- aka Dale Scheetz Phone: 1 (850) 656-9769 Flexible Software 11000 McCrackin Road e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tallahassee, FL 32308 _-_-_-_-_-_- If you don't see what you want, just ask _-_-_-_-_-_-_- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FIX FOR HAMM: timezone problem
On Tue, Jun 16, 1998 at 09:57:22PM -0700, G John Lapeyre wrote: I found the entire kernel/hw clock issue quite confusing. (eg , when to use the uct flag ) The man pages help a little. A clock howto would be quite helpful. Add useful info to /usr/doc/HOWTO/mini/Clock.gz and sent it to the maintainer... Marcus -- Rhubarb is no Egyptian god.Debian GNU/Linuxfinger brinkmd@ Marcus Brinkmann http://www.debian.orgmaster.debian.org [EMAIL PROTECTED]for public PGP Key http://homepage.ruhr-uni-bochum.de/Marcus.Brinkmann/ PGP Key ID 36E7CD09 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FIX FOR HAMM: timezone problem
On Sat, 20 Jun 1998, Dale Scheetz wrote: This is very strange, as US/Central and CST6CDT are both links to Americal/Chicago in the 2.0.7 version that I am building for release today. The 2.0.7pre3 (which I have currently installed) seems to have these as separate files. Likewise 2.0.7pre4, however diff shows they are identical. I'm not sure how well diff works with binaries however. The files have identical sizes. Bob Bob Nielsen Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tucson, AZ AMPRnet: [EMAIL PROTECTED] DM42nh http://www.primenet.com/~nielsen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FIX FOR HAMM: timezone problem
On Sat, 20 Jun 1998, Bob Nielsen wrote: On Sat, 20 Jun 1998, Dale Scheetz wrote: This is very strange, as US/Central and CST6CDT are both links to Americal/Chicago in the 2.0.7 version that I am building for release today. The 2.0.7pre3 (which I have currently installed) seems to have these as separate files. Likewise 2.0.7pre4, however diff shows they are identical. I'm not sure how well diff works with binaries however. The files have identical sizes. Where did you get a pre4? I don't think I released one... Dwarf -- _-_-_-_-_- Author of The Debian Linux User's Guide _-_-_-_-_-_- aka Dale Scheetz Phone: 1 (850) 656-9769 Flexible Software 11000 McCrackin Road e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tallahassee, FL 32308 _-_-_-_-_-_- If you don't see what you want, just ask _-_-_-_-_-_-_- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FIX FOR HAMM: timezone problem
On Sat, 20 Jun 1998, Dale Scheetz wrote: Where did you get a pre4? I don't think I released one... Oops, I meant pre1-4. Sorry about that. Bob Bob Nielsen Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tucson, AZ AMPRnet: [EMAIL PROTECTED] DM42nh http://www.primenet.com/~nielsen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FIX FOR HAMM: timezone problem
Enrique Zanardi [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Tue, Jun 16, 1998 at 07:54:42AM -0500, John Goerzen wrote: I'd say something like: If your time changes for daylight savings time, use these options. Otherwise, use these. Something needs to be done on the bootdisks, too. OK. So, which are the options for DST and which are the others? Does that apply to all US zones or only to US/Central? It appears that the ones like CST6CDT, EST5EDT, etc. are the proper ones for the majority of US. Most of Indiana and some spots of Arizona apparently use other options, but I don't know what they are at the moment. This applies to all US (and Canadian and Mexican?) timezones. John -- John Goerzen Linux, Unix consulting programming [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Developer, Debian GNU/Linux (Free powerful OS upgrade) www.debian.org | + Visit the Air Capitol Linux Users Group on the web at http://www.aclug.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FIX FOR HAMM: timezone problem
On Tue, Jun 16, 1998 at 02:00:41PM -0400, Dale Scheetz wrote:
Sorry to have stayed out of this but I have been busy...
Bottom line...tzconfig is broken.
If you look at the list provided under US there is an entry of
Indiana-Eastern, and Arizona... as well. These should be linked to their
non-DST configuration. The ones that say eastern, and central, and
mountain, and pacific, should all understand daylight shaving time. (Bill,
I hate daylight shavings time)
The central timezone provided by tzconfig is broken, in that it clearly
doesn't deal with DST correctly. I believe I have heard of this problem
before. I guess it is time to look at the guts of this and figure out how
to fix it.
I'm pretty sure you are mistaken, Dale. I seriously doubt that there
is anything wrong with the timezone files or tzconfig. I no longer
have the original problem report on hand, but I suspect the problem
was caused by either an incorrectly set CMOS clock or incorrect
use/non-use of the hwclock -u option in /etc/init.d/hwclock.sh.
FYI, the US/{Eastern,Central,Mountain,Pacific} timezones do use DST
and the US/{Arizona,East-Indiana,Hawaii} timezones don't. I'm not
sure about the others, but I'd bet that they are correct also.
David
--
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[EMAIL PROTECTED] 1001 E. Arapaho Road
(972) 234-6400 Richardson, TX 75081
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Re: FIX FOR HAMM: timezone problem
On 16 Jun 1998, John Goerzen wrote: Enrique Zanardi [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Tue, Jun 16, 1998 at 07:54:42AM -0500, John Goerzen wrote: I'd say something like: If your time changes for daylight savings time, use these options. Otherwise, use these. Something needs to be done on the bootdisks, too. OK. So, which are the options for DST and which are the others? Does that apply to all US zones or only to US/Central? It appears that the ones like CST6CDT, EST5EDT, etc. are the proper ones for the majority of US. Most of Indiana and some spots of Arizona apparently use other options, but I don't know what they are at the moment. This applies to all US (and Canadian and Mexican?) timezones. I assume you have all looked in the timezone information files in the glibc package? They explain in detail exactly how each timezone is setup, when then go to dst and so on. Jason -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FIX FOR HAMM: timezone problem
DS == Dale Scheetz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: DS We are working on a report of failure in US/central WRT Daylight DS Savings Time, right? DS There is one variable we haven't nailed down yet. The hardware DS clock can be set either to local time or GMT (UTC). As I DS remember, the failure only happens when the clock is set to one DS of these two. (Memory says Local Time is the broken one) Not quite correct. I remember this problem, as I was hit by it :) The problem was with the SystemV CST6CDT timezone. It has an incorrect changeover rule. At the time of the switchover, I had my timezone set to the SystemV/CST6CDT value, and after the switchover it was still thinking it was set to CST. ntpdate synched the clock correctly with UTC, but the displayed time was 1 hour off, since it was displaying CST, not CDT. Switching the timezone to US/Central caused the date to be displayed correctly. I just checked, and now CST6CDT correctly gives CDT, so the problem is an incorrect transition rule in the SystemV/CCST6CDT timezone file. The hardware clock issue is a red herring. I only read my clock at boot time, and my machine had not been booted for several days. I do write the time back immediately after setting the kernel clock with ntpdate, though. -Larry -- Larry Daffner| Linux: Unleash the workstation in your PC! [EMAIL PROTECTED] / http://web2.airmail.net/vizzie/ Ray's Rule of Precision: Measure with a micrometer. Mark with chalk. Cut with an axe. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FIX FOR HAMM: timezone problem
I found the entire kernel/hw clock issue quite confusing. (eg , when to use the uct flag ) The man pages help a little. A clock howto would be quite helpful. John Lapeyre [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tucson,AZ http://www.physics.arizona.edu/~lapeyre -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
FIX FOR HAMM: timezone problem
Hi, I noticed with surprise tonight that my clock was an hour off. Investigating the matter revealed that /etc/timezone said US/Central. running /usr/sbin/tzconfig and setting it to SystemV/CST6CDT fixed the problem. However, the install program, and tzconfig, both have a problem. They do not explain the difference, why one might work and the other might not, etc. Also, why does US/Central not work? The boot disks should not offer confusing options. They should offer the working one (CST6CDT for me) and no non-working ones. The same goes for tzconfig. Otherwise, anybody using xntp or something similar will always get incorrect times. John -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FIX FOR HAMM: timezone problem
On Mon, 15 Jun 1998, John Goerzen wrote: Hi, I noticed with surprise tonight that my clock was an hour off. Investigating the matter revealed that /etc/timezone said US/Central. running /usr/sbin/tzconfig and setting it to SystemV/CST6CDT fixed the problem. However, the install program, and tzconfig, both have a problem. They do not explain the difference, why one might work and the other might not, etc. Also, why does US/Central not work? The boot disks should not offer confusing options. They should offer the working one (CST6CDT for me) and no non-working ones. The same goes for tzconfig. Otherwise, anybody using xntp or something similar will always get incorrect times. I'm sorry to disapoint you, but US/Central is a perfectly valid timezone. It is only intended for those parts of the central US where Daylight Savings Time is not practiced. You will notice that there are equivalet settings for the other timezones as well. While I admit that setting your timezone is not always obvious. Once you figure out the correct setting, it never changes, as long as you don't move very far. If we supplied a whole book on the subject there would still be confused people. On the other hand, if you can come up with an explanation that is short and clear, I will be happy to incorporate it into the tzconfig script. Thanks, Dwarf -- _-_-_-_-_- Author of The Debian Linux User's Guide _-_-_-_-_-_- aka Dale Scheetz Phone: 1 (850) 656-9769 Flexible Software 11000 McCrackin Road e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tallahassee, FL 32308 _-_-_-_-_-_- If you don't see what you want, just ask _-_-_-_-_-_-_- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FIX FOR HAMM: timezone problem
Dale Scheetz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The boot disks should not offer confusing options. They should offer the working one (CST6CDT for me) and no non-working ones. The same goes for tzconfig. Otherwise, anybody using xntp or something similar will always get incorrect times. I'm sorry to disapoint you, but US/Central is a perfectly valid timezone. It is only intended for those parts of the central US where Daylight Savings Time is not practiced. You will notice that there are equivalet settings for the other timezones as well. Yes. But almost all of the US does use DST. I believe the sole exception is a few counties in Indiana. Therefore it does indeed seem to be broken. I'm not sure if Indiana is in Central or Eastern, but I can say for sure that Mountain and Pacific zones have no place like that -- they all switch for DST. Neither the boot disks nor tzconfig make this distinction clear, although it would be trivial to do so, I think. Further, I think that the System V options should be the default instead of the other ones. While I admit that setting your timezone is not always obvious. Once you figure out the correct setting, it never changes, as long as you don't move very far. Yes, but here I've been running for over half a year with the wrong timezone because nobody ever told me it's wrong. US/Central looks perfect in the setup -- I can imagine people going What is this CST6CDT thing? In both tzconfig and the boot disks, one is presented with US/Central before CST6CDT. I don't know if it still does this, but older versions would ask you this after you booted up the first time -- they'd actually ask for you to punch in your geographical region. To that question, you'd answer US instead of CST6CDT. If we supplied a whole book on the subject there would still be confused people. On the other hand, if you can come up with an explanation that is short and clear, I will be happy to incorporate it into the tzconfig script. I'd say something like: If your time changes for daylight savings time, use these options. Otherwise, use these. Something needs to be done on the bootdisks, too. -- John Goerzen Linux, Unix consulting programming [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Developer, Debian GNU/Linux (Free powerful OS upgrade) www.debian.org | + Visit the Air Capitol Linux Users Group on the web at http://www.aclug.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FIX FOR HAMM: timezone problem
On Tue, Jun 16, 1998 at 07:54:42AM -0500, John Goerzen wrote: I'd say something like: If your time changes for daylight savings time, use these options. Otherwise, use these. Something needs to be done on the bootdisks, too. OK. So, which are the options for DST and which are the others? Does that apply to all US zones or only to US/Central? Thanks, -- Enrique Zanardi[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FIX FOR HAMM: timezone problem
On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Dale Scheetz wrote: On Mon, 15 Jun 1998, John Goerzen wrote: Investigating the matter revealed that /etc/timezone said US/Central. running /usr/sbin/tzconfig and setting it to SystemV/CST6CDT fixed the problem. I'm sorry to disapoint you, but US/Central is a perfectly valid timezone. It is only intended for those parts of the central US where Daylight Savings Time is not practiced. You will notice that there are equivalet settings for the other timezones as well. In tzconfig, it prompts you for your geographic area. Just about everyone I can think of will select US if they are in the US. But if what you are saying is correct, non of those settings are for people with Daylight Savings Time. There should be an alternative list under the US section that is for people with Daylight Savings Time. Brandon --+-- Brandon Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Debian Testing Group Status PGP Key: finger -l [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://bhmit1.home.ml.org/deb/ Dijkstra probably hates me (Linus Torvalds, in kernel/sched.c) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FIX FOR HAMM: timezone problem
On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Dale Scheetz wrote: : On Mon, 15 Jun 1998, John Goerzen wrote: : : : Hi, : : I noticed with surprise tonight that my clock was an hour off. : : Investigating the matter revealed that /etc/timezone said : US/Central. running /usr/sbin/tzconfig and setting it to : SystemV/CST6CDT fixed the problem. : : However, the install program, and tzconfig, both have a problem. They : do not explain the difference, why one might work and the other : might not, etc. Also, why does US/Central not work? : : The boot disks should not offer confusing options. They should offer : the working one (CST6CDT for me) and no non-working ones. The same : goes for tzconfig. Otherwise, anybody using xntp or something similar : will always get incorrect times. : : I'm sorry to disapoint you, but US/Central is a perfectly valid timezone. : It is only intended for those parts of the central US where Daylight : Savings Time is not practiced. You will notice that there are equivalet : settings for the other timezones as well. Huh? I live in the Central timezone, and I can assure you that we practice Daylight Savings Time. kepler:~ $ cat /etc/timezone US/Central kepler:~ $ date Tue Jun 16 09:12:45 CDT 1998 All of our servers are set to US/Central - except the BSDi box :) We currently have 8 Debian boxes here. All run either xntp, or ntpdate periodically. One of the Debian boxes is a tier 3 NTP server - a Bay router helps out in that capacity as well. I believe the non-DST zones are specifically spelled out, like US/Arizona. I believe US/Indiana-Starke and US/East-Indiana serve a similar purpose but I don't live there, so I really can't say. -- Nathan Norman MidcoNet - 410 South Phillips Avenue - Sioux Falls, SD 57104 mailto://[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.midco.net finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP Key: (0xA33B86E9) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FIX FOR HAMM: timezone problem
On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Brandon Mitchell wrote: : On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Dale Scheetz wrote: : : On Mon, 15 Jun 1998, John Goerzen wrote: : : Investigating the matter revealed that /etc/timezone said : US/Central. running /usr/sbin/tzconfig and setting it to : SystemV/CST6CDT fixed the problem. : : I'm sorry to disapoint you, but US/Central is a perfectly valid timezone. : It is only intended for those parts of the central US where Daylight : Savings Time is not practiced. You will notice that there are equivalet : settings for the other timezones as well. : : In tzconfig, it prompts you for your geographic area. Just about everyone : I can think of will select US if they are in the US. But if what you are : saying is correct, non of those settings are for people with Daylight : Savings Time. There should be an alternative list under the US section : that is for people with Daylight Savings Time. Sorry, but I think US/Central works as advertised. kepler:~ $ cat /etc/timezone US/Central kepler:~ $ date Tue Jun 16 09:29:29 CDT 1998 I know this said CST when we weren't on DST. Furthermore, it shouldn't say CDT if It is only intended for those parts of the central US where Daylight Savings Time is not practiced. -- Nathan Norman MidcoNet - 410 South Phillips Avenue - Sioux Falls, SD 57104 mailto://[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.midco.net finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP Key: (0xA33B86E9) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FIX FOR HAMM: timezone problem
At 05:54 -0700 1998-06-16, John Goerzen wrote: Dale Scheetz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The boot disks should not offer confusing options. They should offer the working one (CST6CDT for me) and no non-working ones. The same goes for tzconfig. Otherwise, anybody using xntp or something similar will always get incorrect times. I'm sorry to disapoint you, but US/Central is a perfectly valid timezone. It is only intended for those parts of the central US where Daylight Savings Time is not practiced. You will notice that there are equivalet settings for the other timezones as well. Yes. But almost all of the US does use DST. I believe the sole exception is a few counties in Indiana. And the entire state of Arizona. -- Joel Espy Klecker Debian GNU/Linux Developer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://web.espy.org/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FIX FOR HAMM: timezone problem
On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Nathan E Norman wrote: On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Brandon Mitchell wrote: : On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Dale Scheetz wrote: : : I'm sorry to disapoint you, but US/Central is a perfectly valid timezone. : It is only intended for those parts of the central US where Daylight : Savings Time is not practiced. You will notice that there are equivalet : settings for the other timezones as well. : : In tzconfig, it prompts you for your geographic area. Just about everyone : I can think of will select US if they are in the US. But if what you are : saying is correct, none of those settings are for people with Daylight : Savings Time. There should be an alternative list under the US section : that is for people with Daylight Savings Time. Sorry, but I think US/Central works as advertised. kepler:~ $ cat /etc/timezone US/Central kepler:~ $ date Tue Jun 16 09:29:29 CDT 1998 I know this said CST when we weren't on DST. Furthermore, it shouldn't say CDT if It is only intended for those parts of the central US where Daylight Savings Time is not practiced. Don't be sorry, it means that Dale said it backwards, which makes things much easier. Just say if you don't use DST, pick from these shortened abreviations. I was hoping for this, which is why I qualified myself with a if what you are saying is correct line. Thanks, Brandon --+-- Brandon Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Debian Testing Group Status PGP Key: finger -l [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://bhmit1.home.ml.org/deb/ Dijkstra probably hates me (Linus Torvalds, in kernel/sched.c) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FIX FOR HAMM: timezone problem
On Tue, Jun 16, 1998 at 08:26:41AM -0400, Dale Scheetz wrote: I'm sorry to disapoint you, but US/Central is a perfectly valid timezone. It is only intended for those parts of the central US where Daylight Savings Time is not practiced. You will notice that there are equivalet settings for the other timezones as well. Uhmm, there is no state in the Central timezone that doesn't go on Daylight Savings Time. Two states in the continental US do not go on DST -- Indiana, in the Eastern time zone, and Arizona, in the Mountain time zone. This also can change on county-by-county basis. I think US/Central is a reasonable assumption to make for someone living in the Central timezone. Perhaps some further clarification should be made. Admittedly, the best thing would be for the United States to abandon the Luddite notion of Daylight Savings Time, but that's not something Debian can change soon. :) -- G. Branden Robinson | Murphy's Guide to Science: Purdue University | If it's green or squirms, it's biology. [EMAIL PROTECTED] | If it stinks, it's chemistry. http://www.ecn.purdue.edu/~branden/ | If it doesn't work, it's physics. pgpg7CivO2nOt.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: FIX FOR HAMM: timezone problem
Sorry to have stayed out of this but I have been busy... Bottom line...tzconfig is broken. If you look at the list provided under US there is an entry of Indiana-Eastern, and Arizona... as well. These should be linked to their non-DST configuration. The ones that say eastern, and central, and mountain, and pacific, should all understand daylight shaving time. (Bill, I hate daylight shavings time) The central timezone provided by tzconfig is broken, in that it clearly doesn't deal with DST correctly. I believe I have heard of this problem before. I guess it is time to look at the guts of this and figure out how to fix it. On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Branden Robinson wrote: On Tue, Jun 16, 1998 at 08:26:41AM -0400, Dale Scheetz wrote: I'm sorry to disapoint you, but US/Central is a perfectly valid timezone. It is only intended for those parts of the central US where Daylight Savings Time is not practiced. You will notice that there are equivalet settings for the other timezones as well. Uhmm, there is no state in the Central timezone that doesn't go on Daylight Savings Time. Two states in the continental US do not go on DST -- Indiana, in the Eastern time zone, and Arizona, in the Mountain time zone. This also can change on county-by-county basis. I think US/Central is a reasonable assumption to make for someone living in the Central timezone. Perhaps some further clarification should be made. Admittedly, the best thing would be for the United States to abandon the Luddite notion of Daylight Savings Time, but that's not something Debian can change soon. :) -- G. Branden Robinson | Murphy's Guide to Science: Purdue University | If it's green or squirms, it's biology. [EMAIL PROTECTED] | If it stinks, it's chemistry. http://www.ecn.purdue.edu/~branden/ | If it doesn't work, it's physics. Dwarf -- _-_-_-_-_- Author of The Debian Linux User's Guide _-_-_-_-_-_- aka Dale Scheetz Phone: 1 (850) 656-9769 Flexible Software 11000 McCrackin Road e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tallahassee, FL 32308 _-_-_-_-_-_- If you don't see what you want, just ask _-_-_-_-_-_-_- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FIX FOR HAMM: timezone problem
Hi, Dale! Sorry to jump in (I have almost no expertise in tzconfig), but I have US/Central in timezone and date, xntp work fine for me. May be it's not broken? How should one check? Sasha. Sorry to have stayed out of this but I have been busy... Bottom line...tzconfig is broken. The central timezone provided by tzconfig is broken, in that it clearly doesn't deal with DST correctly. I believe I have heard of this problem before. I guess it is time to look at the guts of this and figure out how to fix it. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FIX FOR HAMM: timezone problem
On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Dale Scheetz wrote: : Sorry to have stayed out of this but I have been busy... : : Bottom line...tzconfig is broken. That may be :) : If you look at the list provided under US there is an entry of : Indiana-Eastern, and Arizona... as well. These should be linked to their : non-DST configuration. The ones that say eastern, and central, and : mountain, and pacific, should all understand daylight shaving time. (Bill, : I hate daylight shavings time) : : The central timezone provided by tzconfig is broken, in that it clearly : doesn't deal with DST correctly. I believe I have heard of this problem : before. I guess it is time to look at the guts of this and figure out how : to fix it. What exactly makes you say that the central timezone doesn't deal with DST? If you mean US/Central I will have to disagree with you. :) It works fine here. kepler:~ $ cat /etc/timezone US/Central kepler:~ $ date Tue Jun 16 13:27:25 CDT 1998 kepler:~ $ date --utc Tue Jun 16 18:27:29 UTC 1998 kepler:~ $ ps awx | grep xntp 279 ? S0:01 /usr/sbin/xntpd Where's the problem? I'm confused. -- Nathan Norman MidcoNet - 410 South Phillips Avenue - Sioux Falls, SD 57104 mailto://[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.midco.net finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP Key: (0xA33B86E9) [ package info ] kepler:~ $ dpkg -l timezones Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge | Status=Not/Installed/Config-files/Unpacked/Failed-config/Half-installed |/ Err?=(none)/Hold/Reinst-required/X=both-problems (Status,Err: uppercase=bad) ||/ NameVersionDescription +++-===-==- ii timezones 2.0.7pre1-4Time zone data files and utilities. kepler:~ $ dpkg -l timezone Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge | Status=Not/Installed/Config-files/Unpacked/Failed-config/Half-installed |/ Err?=(none)/Hold/Reinst-required/X=both-problems (Status,Err: uppercase=bad) ||/ NameVersionDescription +++-===-==- pn timezonenone (no description available) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FIX FOR HAMM: timezone problem
On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Nathan E Norman wrote: On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Dale Scheetz wrote: : Sorry to have stayed out of this but I have been busy... : : Bottom line...tzconfig is broken. That may be :) : If you look at the list provided under US there is an entry of : Indiana-Eastern, and Arizona... as well. These should be linked to their : non-DST configuration. The ones that say eastern, and central, and : mountain, and pacific, should all understand daylight shaving time. (Bill, : I hate daylight shavings time) : : The central timezone provided by tzconfig is broken, in that it clearly : doesn't deal with DST correctly. I believe I have heard of this problem : before. I guess it is time to look at the guts of this and figure out how : to fix it. What exactly makes you say that the central timezone doesn't deal with DST? If you mean US/Central I will have to disagree with you. :) It works fine here. kepler:~ $ cat /etc/timezone US/Central kepler:~ $ date Tue Jun 16 13:27:25 CDT 1998 kepler:~ $ date --utc Tue Jun 16 18:27:29 UTC 1998 kepler:~ $ ps awx | grep xntp 279 ? S0:01 /usr/sbin/xntpd Where's the problem? I'm confused. Me too ;-) We are working on a report of failure in US/central WRT Daylight Savings Time, right? There is one variable we haven't nailed down yet. The hardware clock can be set either to local time or GMT (UTC). As I remember, the failure only happens when the clock is set to one of these two. (Memory says Local Time is the broken one) Your output, if I can count right (not guaranteed), indicates a 5 hour difference from GMT, which, I think, is correct. Which way is your hardware clock set? Thanks, Dwarf -- _-_-_-_-_- Author of The Debian Linux User's Guide _-_-_-_-_-_- aka Dale Scheetz Phone: 1 (850) 656-9769 Flexible Software 11000 McCrackin Road e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tallahassee, FL 32308 _-_-_-_-_-_- If you don't see what you want, just ask _-_-_-_-_-_-_- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FIX FOR HAMM: timezone problem
On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Dale Scheetz wrote: : On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Nathan E Norman wrote: : : On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Dale Scheetz wrote: : : : Sorry to have stayed out of this but I have been busy... : : : : Bottom line...tzconfig is broken. : : That may be :) : : : If you look at the list provided under US there is an entry of : : Indiana-Eastern, and Arizona... as well. These should be linked to their : : non-DST configuration. The ones that say eastern, and central, and : : mountain, and pacific, should all understand daylight shaving time. (Bill, : : I hate daylight shavings time) : : : : The central timezone provided by tzconfig is broken, in that it clearly : : doesn't deal with DST correctly. I believe I have heard of this problem : : before. I guess it is time to look at the guts of this and figure out how : : to fix it. : : What exactly makes you say that the central timezone doesn't deal with : DST? If you mean US/Central I will have to disagree with you. :) It : works fine here. : : kepler:~ $ cat /etc/timezone : US/Central : kepler:~ $ date : Tue Jun 16 13:27:25 CDT 1998 : kepler:~ $ date --utc : Tue Jun 16 18:27:29 UTC 1998 : kepler:~ $ ps awx | grep xntp :279 ? S0:01 /usr/sbin/xntpd : : Where's the problem? I'm confused. : : Me too ;-) : : We are working on a report of failure in US/central WRT Daylight Savings : Time, right? Correct :) : There is one variable we haven't nailed down yet. The hardware clock can : be set either to local time or GMT (UTC). As I remember, the failure only : happens when the clock is set to one of these two. (Memory says Local Time : is the broken one) Ah, I'd forgotten about that. I believe your memory is correct. : Your output, if I can count right (not guaranteed), indicates a 5 hour : difference from GMT, which, I think, is correct. Which way is your : hardware clock set? Hardware clocks here are set to UTC - I figure they're servers, up 24/7 (no dual booting to Win95 :) so UTC is the right decision. I will try another machine at home which iirc is set to local time. CDT is indeed UTC-5, and CST is UTC-6. So, to recap: I'm using US/Central timezone, with hardware clocks set to UTC, and all is well here. -- Nathan Norman MidcoNet - 410 South Phillips Avenue - Sioux Falls, SD 57104 mailto://[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.midco.net finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP Key: (0xA33B86E9) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
