Re: FTP Policy Development

[Steve Robbins]

Sure I do understand how things work.  I'm not suggesting that ALL discussions 
need be public - specifically I was not meaning deliberations on any given 
case.  

But I do think that general policy discussions should involve the entire debian 
community - as is done for Debian Policy Manual.



On March 7, 2018 7:03:54 PM EST, Gunnar Wolf  wrote:
>Steve Robbins dijo [Sat, Mar 03, 2018 at 01:15:35PM -0600]:
>> (...)
>> To me, one of the puzzling aspects is why the FTP policy work has
>been so 
>> secretive.  The release team has a mailing list, tech committee has a
>mailing 
>> list.  There is Debian Policy list.  It doesn't seem in congruence
>that the 
>> ftp team is making their policy behind closed doors.  Should it not
>flow from 
>> Debian Policy and be debated on open lists?
>> 
>> Or maybe it is all open and I simply haven't found it.  If so, I
>would 
>> gratefully accept pointers.  Concretely: where would one find the 
>> deliberations behind https://ftp-master.debian.org/REJECT-FAQ.html ?
>
>Ummm...
>
>Not that I know much about how ftp-masters work internally. But I have
>been on several other Debian teams. In general, all decisions are
>taken in the public - But it is by far not uncommon to resort to
>private communication for many of the non-obvious, contentious
>cases. There are *always* cases where you want to discuss something
>without the affected actors being part of the loop.
>
>Yes, Debian as a whole strives for openness, and you will often see
>calls to "get out of private" whenever interesting discussions taking
>place. But I would perfectly understand and support a ftp-master
>workflow that routinely involves private communication - Their
>decisions, although non-personal in nature, can be *felt* as personal
>attacks. 

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: FTP Policy Development

[Gunnar Wolf]

Steve Robbins dijo [Sat, Mar 03, 2018 at 01:15:35PM -0600]:
> (...)
> To me, one of the puzzling aspects is why the FTP policy work has been so 
> secretive.  The release team has a mailing list, tech committee has a mailing 
> list.  There is Debian Policy list.  It doesn't seem in congruence that the 
> ftp team is making their policy behind closed doors.  Should it not flow from 
> Debian Policy and be debated on open lists?
> 
> Or maybe it is all open and I simply haven't found it.  If so, I would 
> gratefully accept pointers.  Concretely: where would one find the 
> deliberations behind https://ftp-master.debian.org/REJECT-FAQ.html ?

Ummm...

Not that I know much about how ftp-masters work internally. But I have
been on several other Debian teams. In general, all decisions are
taken in the public - But it is by far not uncommon to resort to
private communication for many of the non-obvious, contentious
cases. There are *always* cases where you want to discuss something
without the affected actors being part of the loop.

Yes, Debian as a whole strives for openness, and you will often see
calls to "get out of private" whenever interesting discussions taking
place. But I would perfectly understand and support a ftp-master
workflow that routinely involves private communication - Their
decisions, although non-personal in nature, can be *felt* as personal
attacks. 


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FTP Policy Development

[Steve Robbins]

On Friday, March 2, 2018 11:07:39 PM CST Scott Kitterman wrote:
> On Friday, March 02, 2018 09:44:04 PM Steve Robbins wrote:
> > On Thursday, March 1, 2018 6:15:08 AM CST Ian Jackson wrote:
> > > But when a submitter disagrees with a REJECT, and asks for a review,
> > > IMO submitter is entitled to a longer explanation, and there should
> > > explicitly be an opportunity for other ftpmasters to agree or dissent.
> > 
> > That would be nice.  I'm still waiting for clarity about the Boost
> > rejection.
> 
> This is my fault.  I had planned (and still do) on working on getting some
> clarification around the copyright notification issue.  Unfortunately, I've
> gotten distracted by a few other things, but I still plan on working on it.

Well, I don't think it is your fault.  I myself have several times sat down to 
write a follow-up -- with an actual proposal, not just complaining :-) -- but 
also got distracted.  We're all busy.  But I am heartened to hear that you are 
working on it.  And I welcome the recent proposals by Ian and by Gert.

To me, one of the puzzling aspects is why the FTP policy work has been so 
secretive.  The release team has a mailing list, tech committee has a mailing 
list.  There is Debian Policy list.  It doesn't seem in congruence that the 
ftp team is making their policy behind closed doors.  Should it not flow from 
Debian Policy and be debated on open lists?

Or maybe it is all open and I simply haven't found it.  If so, I would 
gratefully accept pointers.  Concretely: where would one find the 
deliberations behind https://ftp-master.debian.org/REJECT-FAQ.html ?

-Steve
P.S.  If I didn't strike the right tone in this email, then I do apologise.  
It is honestly not intended to be antagonistic, though I admit it does sound a 
bit whiny.


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