Re: FW: [NTSEC] (Fwd) DESCHALL Press Release

[Sven Rudolph]

Bruce Perens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> 
> > I suggest to use [EMAIL PROTECTED] as common identifier for Debian
> > friends. In case we get the money (why should we ?) I suggest to pass
> > 50% to Linux International and keep 50% for Debian.
> 
> Please use an address at Linux International, not one in the Debian
> domain.

I am not aware of a Linux International address in the RC5 cracking
effort.

> It is not our policy to compete with other Linux distributions.

Nor have I seen another distribution there.

> If we are to join this challenge, it should be for all Linux, not for
> Debian alone.

I disagree. Neither are we making a Linux distribution against all
Linux, nor are we competing in the RC5 challange against all Linux.

For details see my other message.

Sven
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Re: FW: [NTSEC] (Fwd) DESCHALL Press Release

[Sven Rudolph]

Jim Pick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> > > I suggest to use [EMAIL PROTECTED] as common identifier for Debian
> > > friends. In case we get the money (why should we ?) I suggest to pass
> > > 50% to Linux International and keep 50% for Debian.
> > 
> > Please use an address at Linux International, not one in the Debian
> > domain. It is not our policy to compete with other Linux distributions.
> > If we are to join this challenge, it should be for all Linux, not for
> > Debian alone.

> I get the impression that you've been hoodwinked into thinking there
> is an "official Linux team" - there ain't - there's a linuxnet.org
> team, organized by those IRC guys.
> 
> The odds of winning any of these contests (even with a strong team)
> is something like 1 in 10,000 - so the objective isn't to win - it's
> just to compete.  

IMHO the primary objective is public visibility. It's about the size
of Debian's user base and how many people identify themselves with
Debian in some way.

In the Sollentuna effort about 2% of the blocks were processed by
[EMAIL PROTECTED], so the chance is a bit better than 1 in 10,000.
But we are talking about only 1000$, and money isn't the primary thing
here. If someone wants to contribute money to Debian, participating in
such a cracking effort is no economic way.

> So I'm still in favour of using the [EMAIL PROTECTED] address,
> even though that address is just an auto-responder.

An [EMAIL PROTECTED] address or even a mailing list, but
this needs official blessing, and from Bruce's comments I deduce that
this won't happen soon.

So for now use [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Sven
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Re: FW: [NTSEC] (Fwd) DESCHALL Press Release

[Jim Pick]

> I have some computers up running in that challenge and I could easily
> contribute there output to the debian group, if we are going to have
> one. 
> 
> So will we have one, or will we do it each one by himself?

It's up to you - nobody's really organized anything.  Some people are 
already running for [EMAIL PROTECTED]  It's sort of fun watching
the team stats move up the chart if the team is large enough.

As I understand it, the Bovine RC5 challenge is just a continuation of
the zero.genx.net effort that was discontinued earlier (same clients,
different servers).

I'll probably release the "rc5-bovine" package with a default for the
[EMAIL PROTECTED] team, but that can be easily changed (just like the
previous "des-solnet" package).  I know that this is against Bruce's
wishes - but hey, it's not like we're organizing a mutiny or anything
(although Bruce seemed to take it that way last time).  :-)

Cheers,

 - Jim



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Re: FW: [NTSEC] (Fwd) DESCHALL Press Release

[Goswin Brederlow]

Jim Pick wrote:
> 
> > People did complain that we were promoting Debian to the
> > detriment of Linux.
> 
> Yes - but remember, some of the people participating in these
> contests were acting pretty infantile.  Instead of focusing on solving
> the problem, they want their team to be at the top of the
> list at all costs, including 'spamming' the servers to increase
> their odds.
> 
> The people who wrote to you complaining about the fact that there
> was a [EMAIL PROTECTED] team were just trying to get people to
> join their team - so they could get some more "nerd glory" or
> something.  I'm surprised that you've taken them so seriously,
> and that you think they even reflect the sentiments of even
> a fraction of the Linux community.
> 
> This is such a small thing -- nobody cares.  If you were to
> take a poll of Linux people about this, they'd overwhelmingly vote for
> 'go away, I don't care'.
> 
> BTW, in case you didn't notice - we do compete with the other Linux
> distributions every day -- for the honour of having our system installed
> on users computers.
> 
> But, I do agree that we shouldn't be competing against the wishes of the
> Linux community at large.
> 
> In summary:
> 
> Why the hell do we have to be so damn politically correct?
> 
> I'm mostly in this for fun.  :-)
> 
> Cheers,
> 
>  - Jim
> 

I have some computers up running in that challenge and I could easily
contribute there output to the debian group, if we are going to have
one. 

So will we have one, or will we do it each one by himself?

May the source be with you.
Mrvn


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Re: FW: [NTSEC] (Fwd) DESCHALL Press Release

[Jim Pick]

> People did complain that we were promoting Debian to the
> detriment of Linux.

Yes - but remember, some of the people participating in these
contests were acting pretty infantile.  Instead of focusing on solving
the problem, they want their team to be at the top of the 
list at all costs, including 'spamming' the servers to increase
their odds.

The people who wrote to you complaining about the fact that there 
was a [EMAIL PROTECTED] team were just trying to get people to
join their team - so they could get some more "nerd glory" or
something.  I'm surprised that you've taken them so seriously,
and that you think they even reflect the sentiments of even
a fraction of the Linux community.  

This is such a small thing -- nobody cares.  If you were to
take a poll of Linux people about this, they'd overwhelmingly vote for
'go away, I don't care'.

BTW, in case you didn't notice - we do compete with the other Linux
distributions every day -- for the honour of having our system installed
on users computers.  

But, I do agree that we shouldn't be competing against the wishes of the 
Linux community at large.

In summary:

Why the hell do we have to be so damn politically correct?

I'm mostly in this for fun.  :-)

Cheers,

 - Jim




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Re: FW: [NTSEC] (Fwd) DESCHALL Press Release

[Bruce Perens]

From: Jim Pick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> I get the impression that you've been hoodwinked into thinking there
> is an "official Linux team" - there ain't - there's a linuxnet.org
> team, organized by those IRC guys.

Last time, a good many different Linux interests were competing as
linuxnet.org, and we were off by ourselves for no reason I could
understand. People did complain that we were promoting Debian to the
detriment of Linux.

Thanks

Bruce
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Re: FW: [NTSEC] (Fwd) DESCHALL Press Release

[Jim Pick]

> > I suggest to use [EMAIL PROTECTED] as common identifier for Debian
> > friends. In case we get the money (why should we ?) I suggest to pass
> > 50% to Linux International and keep 50% for Debian.
> 
> Please use an address at Linux International, not one in the Debian
> domain. It is not our policy to compete with other Linux distributions.
> If we are to join this challenge, it should be for all Linux, not for
> Debian alone.
> 
> 
>   Thanks
> 
>   Bruce

That's silly, Bruce...

I get the impression that you've been hoodwinked into thinking there
is an "official Linux team" - there ain't - there's a linuxnet.org
team, organized by those IRC guys.

The odds of winning any of these contests (even with a strong team)
is something like 1 in 10,000 - so the objective isn't to win - it's
just to compete.  

Your argument is sort of like saying we shouldn't buy a lottery ticket 
and write "Debian" on it, because someone else bought a lottery ticket 
and wrote "Linux" on it - and they might be offended if we won. 

Having teams makes it a bit more fun.  Having 1 team (ie. a Linux
team) sort of kills the competition aspect of it all.

So I'm still in favour of using the [EMAIL PROTECTED] address,
even though that address is just an auto-responder.

Once I get my experimental dwww release out (hopefully tomorrow), 
I'll package up an "rc5-bovine" package to replace the "des-solnet"
package.

Cheers,

 - Jim


 



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Re: FW: [NTSEC] (Fwd) DESCHALL Press Release

[Bruce Perens]

> I suggest to use [EMAIL PROTECTED] as common identifier for Debian
> friends. In case we get the money (why should we ?) I suggest to pass
> 50% to Linux International and keep 50% for Debian.

Please use an address at Linux International, not one in the Debian
domain. It is not our policy to compete with other Linux distributions.
If we are to join this challenge, it should be for all Linux, not for
Debian alone.


Thanks

Bruce
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Re: FW: [NTSEC] (Fwd) DESCHALL Press Release

[Sven Rudolph]

Michael Meskes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Does this mean I can remove my des-solnet?

I think so.

> Anyway, we didn't win but the [EMAIL PROTECTED] email address processed
> the most blocks of all email addresses.

People on the des-solnet mailing list seem to be heading towards the
Bovine RC5 effort  .

So we could try to become the best team there ...

Someone should package the client (I didn't see the source yet ...)
Unfortunately it is developed inside the US, so it cannot be exported
to the "free" world. Nevertheless people outside the US already
participate.

I suggest to use [EMAIL PROTECTED] as common identifier for Debian
friends. In case we get the money (why should we ?) I suggest to pass
50% to Linux International and keep 50% for Debian.

Sven
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FW: [NTSEC] (Fwd) DESCHALL Press Release

[Michael Meskes]

Does this mean I can remove my des-solnet?

Anyway, we didn't win but the [EMAIL PROTECTED] email address processed
the most blocks of all email addresses.

Michael

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>-Original Message-
>From:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent:  Friday, June 20, 1997 11:28 AM
>To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject:   [NTSEC] (Fwd) DESCHALL Press Release
>
>--- Forwarded Message Follows ---
>From:  Rocke Verser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To:"[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject:   DESCHALL Press Release
>Date:  Wed, 18 Jun 1997 21:09:11 +0100
>
>INTERNET-LINKED COMPUTERS CHALLENGE DATA ENCRYPTION STANDARD
>
> LOVELAND, COLORADO (June 18, 1997).  Tens of thousands of
>computers, all across the U.S. and Canada, linked together via the
>Internet in an unprecedented cooperative supercomputing effort to
>decrypt a message encoded with the government-endorsed Data Encryption
>Standard (DES).
>
> Responding to a challenge, including a prize of $10,000, offered by
>RSA Data Security, Inc, the DESCHALL effort successfully decoded
>RSADSI's secret message.
>
> According to Rocke Verser, a contract programmer and consultant who
>developed the specialized software in his spare time, "Tens of thousands
>of computers worked cooperatively on the challenge in what is believed
>to be one of the largest supercomputing efforts ever undertaken outside
>of government."
>
> Using a technique called "brute-force", computers participating in
>the challenge simply began trying every possible decryption key.  There
>are over 72 quadrillion keys (72,057,594,037,927,936).  At the time the
>winning key was reported to RSADSI, the DESCHALL effort had searched
>almost 25% of the total.  At its peak over the recent weekend, the
>DESCHALL effort was testing 7 billion keys per second.
>
> Verser considers this project to be remarkable in two ways:
>
> One.  This is the first time anyone has publicly shown that they
>can read a message encrypted with DES.  And this was done with "spare"
>CPU time, mostly from ordinary PCs, by thousands of users who have never
>even met each other.  U.S. government and industry will have to take a
>hard look at their cryptographic policies.  "DES can no longer be
>considered secure against a determined adversary", Verser said.
>
> Two.  This project demonstrates the kind of supercomputing power
>that can be harnessed on the Internet using nothing but "spare" CPU
>time.  "Imagine what might be possible using millions of computers
>connected to the Internet!"  Aside from cryptography and other obvious
>mathematical uses, supercomputers are used in many fields of science.
>"Perhaps a cure for cancer is lurking on the Internet?", said Verser,
>"Or perhaps the Internet will become Everyman's supercomputer."
>
>
> Under current U.S. government export regulations, and underscoring
>a problem faced by the U.S. software industry, the program that searched
>the keys could not be exported, except to Canada.  A competitive effort,
>based in Sweden, sprang up well after the DESCHALL effort began.  Able
>to "market" their keysearch software around the world, the Swedish
>effort caught up quickly, and had searched nearly 10 quadrillion keys by
>the end of the contest.
>
>   
>
> Verser agrees with the sentiment voiced in RSADSI's secret message:
>"Strong cryptography makes the world a safer place."
>
> Use of strong cryptography, both domestically and internationally,
>is essential in today's electronic world.  "But not at the expense of a
>citizen's right to privacy."  Verser adds, "Recent proposals for
>'key-recovery' and for criminalization of the use of cryptography have no
>place in a free society."
>
>
> Information about the DESCHALL effort is available from the
>official DESCHALL Web site at:  
>
>
>
>MEDIA CONTACTS:
>  Matt Curtin, (908) 431-5300 x 295, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>ALTERNATE:
>  Rocke Verser, (970) 663-5629, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>ALTERNATE:
>  Justin Dolske, (614) 459-5194, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>- 30 -
>
>
>
>
>
>
> INTERNET LINKED COMPUTERS CHALLENGE DATA ENCRYPTION STANDARD
> Background / Sidebar, for Release dated June 18, 1997
>
> The Data Encryption Standard, DES, is a national standard, adopted
>in 1977.  Use of DES is mandatory in most Federal agencies, except the
>military.  DES is very widely used in the private sector, as well.
>
> Interbank wire transfers, Visa transactions, your medical and
>financial rec