Freedom and pragmatism (was: I hereby resign as secretary)

2008-12-19 Thread Ben Finney
Noah Meyerhans no...@debian.org writes:

 On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 05:04:55PM +, Ian Lynagh wrote:
  I believe that part of the problem is that we are not all here to
  create a free operating system. I have the impression that some
  developers merely wish to create an operating system, or perhaps
  a 'free-enough-for-me' operating system.
 
 OTOH, it seems to me that there are people with varying degrees of
 pragmatism.

That implies a (lamentably common) false dichotomy. Free software
goals *are* pragmatic goals. They directly affect how we interact with
the digital information that infuses our lives; essential freedom in
that sphere is a highly pragmatic goal.

There may be reasons that compel us to reduce our freedom, and they
may also be described as “pragmatic”. But it's wrong to imply that
those who strive for freedom don't do so for very pragmatic reasons.

-- 
 \“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used |
  `\   when we created them.” —Albert Einstein |
_o__)  |
Ben Finney


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org



Re: Freedom and pragmatism (was: I hereby resign as secretary)

2008-12-19 Thread Noah Meyerhans
On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 09:02:04AM +1100, Ben Finney wrote:
  OTOH, it seems to me that there are people with varying degrees of
  pragmatism.
 
 That implies a (lamentably common) false dichotomy. Free software
 goals *are* pragmatic goals. They directly affect how we interact with
 the digital information that infuses our lives; essential freedom in
 that sphere is a highly pragmatic goal.
 
 There may be reasons that compel us to reduce our freedom, and they
 may also be described as ???pragmatic???. But it's wrong to imply that
 those who strive for freedom don't do so for very pragmatic reasons.

Of course there are pragmatic reasons for developing and evangelizing
free software.  If there weren't, we really would be just a bunch of
fanatics.  At the moment, I am most concerned with releasing lenny, and
I believe that our users are not well served by continued delays.

Looking back at the GR from 2006 regarding sourceless firmware in the
kernel, it's clear that most of us want the issue to be resolved.
However, it's also clear from the state of things today that there
aren't enough people with the required skills and the motivation to
resolve it.  This appears to be the case both in Debian and upstream.
If this was not true, then people would have worked to resolve the
firmware issue in the kernel long before it became a release blocker.
We can't force the people with the required skills to spend time on
something for which they otherwise have no motivation.

I suppose, then, that what I'm advocating is yet another compromise.
It's difficult to compromise on our ideals, but I believe that
continuing to delay releases over this issue is frustrating our
developers and users alike.

noah



signature.asc
Description: Digital signature