Re: Getting patches into packages, thought and ideas [Was: Re: About NM and Next Release]
Andrew Suffield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Fri, Aug 08, 2003 at 05:34:20AM +0200, Goswin von Brederlow wrote: > If you actually dig into the list, you'll find that many of the bugs > with patches fall into the same category as these two. Most of the > rest actually need significant attention, not NMUs (I usually remove > the patch tag from those when I spot them). Sounds like a reasonable practice to remove the tag. > > > Unless they wanted to co-maintain the package - and a non-developer > > > could do all the important stuff for that anyway (bug triage). > > > > Can one get the same list of packages with patches but sorted by the > > time since the last activity? Or date of the patch? Or a list of > > packages with patches for an older version? > > These things are all doable but difficult, and usually involve some > scripting to extract the information you want; I've done it once or > twice. But it's somewhat imprecise. Someone with experience of the BTS code should script this and add it to the webpage so NMs and DDs can easily find packages worth investing time. Going through bugreports and skipping 80% because one can't help them in any way doesn't encourage to help. Esspecially some mechanism that checks the version of a package against the version a patch was for would be good. The BTS could even send a mail to the submitter saying a new version was uploaded, please check your patch. > > Non-DDs could pick up an old patch and see to it that it works with a > > newer version. Might be something they could get get credits for on > > their application. > > > > Is there a space on the application where sponsors or maintainer who > > see good work being done by the NM can give comments. Surely the DAM > > can't follow all sponsored uploads or patches send to the bts so he > > might easily overlook an productive NM. > > It's the AMs role to collate this sort of information; people can mail > comments to them (the AM should actively seek it out as well), and > applicants are always asked what they are doing/planning to do from > the outset. Can the AM add it to the application? Why not show such comments on the applications webpage? Have a "comments" field just like the "packages" field or something. MfG Goswin
Re: Getting patches into packages, thought and ideas [Was: Re: About NM and Next Release]
On Fri, Aug 08, 2003 at 12:40:18PM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote: > On Aug 07, Goswin von Brederlow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >Do you think any DD reads those? Do DDs care about Bugs with patches? > >And don't tell me glibc is unmaintained or ppp. > ppp actually appears to be unmaintained. Many users requested essential > features like pppoa and kernel space pppoe support but the maintainer > never did it and has not released a new package in almost a year. > I would like to know from Russell if he plans to start working again > soon on ppp or would like to have a co-maintainer who will fix these and > other problems. > (If he is not interested then I'm determined to fork the package and > upload ppp-cvs.) Notice that pppoatm doesn't seem to be included in ppp-cvs. The patch currently in one of the two bug report (unless they were merged) is not ok. It works for pppoatm, but seem to break normal ppp operation, which is not ok. I know from my upstream of the unicorn ADSL drivers, that he worked on a pppoatm patch for mandrake, which could maybe be used. I have not much details about this though, and have not the time to look at this myself. Friendly, Sven Luther
Re: Getting patches into packages, thought and ideas [Was: Re: About NM and Next Release]
On Fri, 8 Aug 2003 20:40, Marco d'Itri wrote: > On Aug 07, Goswin von Brederlow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Do you think any DD reads those? Do DDs care about Bugs with patches? > >And don't tell me glibc is unmaintained or ppp. > > ppp actually appears to be unmaintained. Many users requested essential > features like pppoa and kernel space pppoe support but the maintainer > never did it and has not released a new package in almost a year. > I would like to know from Russell if he plans to start working again > soon on ppp or would like to have a co-maintainer who will fix these and > other problems. > (If he is not interested then I'm determined to fork the package and > upload ppp-cvs.) I have not had enough time to work properly on ppp. I welcome a co-maintainer. I think that the best thing to do at the moment is to add the requested features to the main ppp package wherever possible, and to also have a ppp-cvs package which will focus more on bleeding-edge features. The ppp-cvs package would be based on the current CVS code plus any additional patches that are considered useful. Patches that are found to work well in ppp-cvs can then be committed to the CVS tree (I have CVS commit access). Marco, please upload new ppp or ppp-cvs packages to fit this scheme, I'll work with you on it as time permits. Also thanks for CCing me on the message, I generally just delete entire threads from my mailing-list folder when they appear to be endless flame-wars, so I only receive messages if CC'd to me directly as that makes them appear in my personal folder (which gets read much more carefully). PS pppoa was one of my original aims in taking over the ppp package... :( -- http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/ My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page
Re: Getting patches into packages, thought and ideas [Was: Re: About NM and Next Release]
On Aug 07, Goswin von Brederlow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Do you think any DD reads those? Do DDs care about Bugs with patches? >And don't tell me glibc is unmaintained or ppp. ppp actually appears to be unmaintained. Many users requested essential features like pppoa and kernel space pppoe support but the maintainer never did it and has not released a new package in almost a year. I would like to know from Russell if he plans to start working again soon on ppp or would like to have a co-maintainer who will fix these and other problems. (If he is not interested then I'm determined to fork the package and upload ppp-cvs.) -- ciao, | Marco | [1178 cagsrNBdG73Ls]
Re: Getting patches into packages, thought and ideas [Was: Re: About NM and Next Release]
On Fri, Aug 08, 2003 at 05:34:20AM +0200, Goswin von Brederlow wrote: > > It's not like a developer could do anything more, in these two > > That being true still doesn't help non DDs to contribute. Indeed, but it also means that they are not reasons why people should be given accounts. > > cases. Any developer who NMUs a package with an active maintainer, to > > fix minor/wishlist bugs, should be repeatedly kicked in the head. So > > your argument kinda falls flat. If you are suggesting that you would > > NMU either of these packages to fix these bugs, then it suddenly > > becomes very clear to me why you do not have an account. > > No I wouldn't. Those two are bad examples for NMU'able debs. But the > list of debs with patches is very long. And a new DD might have more > time than the current ones that already have several packages they > maintain. If you actually dig into the list, you'll find that many of the bugs with patches fall into the same category as these two. Most of the rest actually need significant attention, not NMUs (I usually remove the patch tag from those when I spot them). > > Unless they wanted to co-maintain the package - and a non-developer > > could do all the important stuff for that anyway (bug triage). > > Can one get the same list of packages with patches but sorted by the > time since the last activity? Or date of the patch? Or a list of > packages with patches for an older version? These things are all doable but difficult, and usually involve some scripting to extract the information you want; I've done it once or twice. But it's somewhat imprecise. > Non-DDs could pick up an old patch and see to it that it works with a > newer version. Might be something they could get get credits for on > their application. > > Is there a space on the application where sponsors or maintainer who > see good work being done by the NM can give comments. Surely the DAM > can't follow all sponsored uploads or patches send to the bts so he > might easily overlook an productive NM. It's the AMs role to collate this sort of information; people can mail comments to them (the AM should actively seek it out as well), and applicants are always asked what they are doing/planning to do from the outset. -- .''`. ** Debian GNU/Linux ** | Andrew Suffield : :' : http://www.debian.org/ | `. `' | `- -><- | pgpHzCoj11LnV.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Getting patches into packages, thought and ideas [Was: Re: About NM and Next Release]
Colin Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Thu, Aug 07, 2003 at 08:52:04PM +0200, Goswin von Brederlow wrote: > > Colin Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > Good grief, how easy do we have to make it? > > > > > > http://bugs.debian.org/tag:patch > > > > > > http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=&include=patch > > > > > > See the form at http://bugs.debian.org/ which gives pointy-clicky access > > > to these. > > > > Easier than that aparently. And don't tell me how to do it. Tell the > > DDs eager to upload debs with those patches merged in. > > I'm afraid I neither understand your point (what can I do beyond > publishing it on -devel?) nor why you felt I needed a private copy as > well as the list mail. Sorry, I'm confused now. Just saying that it doesn't help me much to see what packages could need an NMU but DDs should take it to heart and maybe fix some of those. MfG Goswin
Re: Getting patches into packages, thought and ideas [Was: Re: About NM and Next Release]
Andrew Suffield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Thu, Aug 07, 2003 at 08:50:36PM +0200, Goswin von Brederlow wrote: > > Mark Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > On Thu, Aug 07, 2003 at 05:42:36PM +0200, Goswin von Brederlow wrote: > > > > > > > Maybe an interface/filter for the bts that gives one a more easy > > > > access to packages with patches pending would be a start. Or a system > > > > > > Try http://bugs.debian.org/tag:patch . > > > > Still not easy enough it seems: > > > > # #19648: Please document (and handle) callback option better > > Package: ppp; Severity: minor; Reported by: Bill Wohler <[EMAIL > > PROTECTED]>; Tags: patch; 5 years and 146 days old. > > # #12411: example directory lister ignores errors > > Package: glibc-doc; Reported by: Ian Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Tags: > > patch; 5 years and 342 days old. > > > > Do you think any DD reads those? Do DDs care about Bugs with patches? > > And don't tell me glibc is unmaintained or ppp. > > ppp *was* unmaintained, for a long period of time. This is almost > certainly the reason for its inordinately long bug list, and it is > quite likely that the current maintainer does not have time to study > all the old bugs and process them - especially minor ones. > > glibc is even worse. It has multiple maintainers, and they still don't > have enough time to chase down all the important bugs, let alone > insignificant ones like this. > > > Do you still claim that non-DDs can do work for debian simply by > > sending in patches? > > It's not like a developer could do anything more, in these two That being true still doesn't help non DDs to contribute. > cases. Any developer who NMUs a package with an active maintainer, to > fix minor/wishlist bugs, should be repeatedly kicked in the head. So > your argument kinda falls flat. If you are suggesting that you would > NMU either of these packages to fix these bugs, then it suddenly > becomes very clear to me why you do not have an account. No I wouldn't. Those two are bad examples for NMU'able debs. But the list of debs with patches is very long. And a new DD might have more time than the current ones that already have several packages they maintain. > Unless they wanted to co-maintain the package - and a non-developer > could do all the important stuff for that anyway (bug triage). Can one get the same list of packages with patches but sorted by the time since the last activity? Or date of the patch? Or a list of packages with patches for an older version? Non-DDs could pick up an old patch and see to it that it works with a newer version. Might be something they could get get credits for on their application. Is there a space on the application where sponsors or maintainer who see good work being done by the NM can give comments. Surely the DAM can't follow all sponsored uploads or patches send to the bts so he might easily overlook an productive NM. MfG Goswin
Re: Getting patches into packages, thought and ideas [Was: Re: About NM and Next Release]
On Thu, Aug 07, 2003 at 08:52:04PM +0200, Goswin von Brederlow wrote: > Colin Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Good grief, how easy do we have to make it? > > > > http://bugs.debian.org/tag:patch > > http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=&include=patch > > > > See the form at http://bugs.debian.org/ which gives pointy-clicky access > > to these. > > Easier than that aparently. And don't tell me how to do it. Tell the > DDs eager to upload debs with those patches merged in. I'm afraid I neither understand your point (what can I do beyond publishing it on -devel?) nor why you felt I needed a private copy as well as the list mail. Sorry, I'm confused now. Cheers, -- Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Getting patches into packages, thought and ideas [Was: Re: About NM and Next Release]
On Thu, Aug 07, 2003 at 08:50:36PM +0200, Goswin von Brederlow wrote: > Mark Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > On Thu, Aug 07, 2003 at 05:42:36PM +0200, Goswin von Brederlow wrote: > > > > > Maybe an interface/filter for the bts that gives one a more easy > > > access to packages with patches pending would be a start. Or a system > > > > Try http://bugs.debian.org/tag:patch . > > Still not easy enough it seems: > > # #19648: Please document (and handle) callback option better > Package: ppp; Severity: minor; Reported by: Bill Wohler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > Tags: patch; 5 years and 146 days old. > # #12411: example directory lister ignores errors > Package: glibc-doc; Reported by: Ian Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Tags: > patch; 5 years and 342 days old. > > Do you think any DD reads those? Do DDs care about Bugs with patches? > And don't tell me glibc is unmaintained or ppp. ppp *was* unmaintained, for a long period of time. This is almost certainly the reason for its inordinately long bug list, and it is quite likely that the current maintainer does not have time to study all the old bugs and process them - especially minor ones. glibc is even worse. It has multiple maintainers, and they still don't have enough time to chase down all the important bugs, let alone insignificant ones like this. > Do you still claim that non-DDs can do work for debian simply by > sending in patches? It's not like a developer could do anything more, in these two cases. Any developer who NMUs a package with an active maintainer, to fix minor/wishlist bugs, should be repeatedly kicked in the head. So your argument kinda falls flat. If you are suggesting that you would NMU either of these packages to fix these bugs, then it suddenly becomes very clear to me why you do not have an account. Unless they wanted to co-maintain the package - and a non-developer could do all the important stuff for that anyway (bug triage). -- .''`. ** Debian GNU/Linux ** | Andrew Suffield : :' : http://www.debian.org/ | `. `' | `- -><- | pgput0PIyPmCW.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Getting patches into packages, thought and ideas [Was: Re: About NM and Next Release]
Colin Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Thu, Aug 07, 2003 at 05:42:36PM +0200, Goswin von Brederlow wrote: > > Maybe an interface/filter for the bts that gives one a more easy > > access to packages with patches pending would be a start. > > Good grief, how easy do we have to make it? > > http://bugs.debian.org/tag:patch > http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=&include=patch > > See the form at http://bugs.debian.org/ which gives pointy-clicky access > to these. Easier than that aparently. And don't tell me how to do it. Tell the DDs eager to upload debs with those patches merged in. MfG Goswin
Re: Getting patches into packages, thought and ideas [Was: Re: About NM and Next Release]
Mark Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Thu, Aug 07, 2003 at 05:42:36PM +0200, Goswin von Brederlow wrote: > > > Maybe an interface/filter for the bts that gives one a more easy > > access to packages with patches pending would be a start. Or a system > > Try http://bugs.debian.org/tag:patch . Still not easy enough it seems: # #19648: Please document (and handle) callback option better Package: ppp; Severity: minor; Reported by: Bill Wohler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Tags: patch; 5 years and 146 days old. # #12411: example directory lister ignores errors Package: glibc-doc; Reported by: Ian Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Tags: patch; 5 years and 342 days old. Do you think any DD reads those? Do DDs care about Bugs with patches? And don't tell me glibc is unmaintained or ppp. Do you still claim that non-DDs can do work for debian simply by sending in patches? It sometimes works but your url is the best argument that it is totally disfunctional. Apart from that, whats the magic url to get the same but with dates since last activity? There could be a 5 year old bug with a 1 day old patch. I wouldn't want to NMU that without at least giving the maintainer a chance to look at the patch. MfG Goswin
Re: Getting patches into packages, thought and ideas [Was: Re: About NM and Next Release]
On Thu, Aug 07, 2003 at 05:42:36PM +0200, Goswin von Brederlow wrote: > Maybe an interface/filter for the bts that gives one a more easy > access to packages with patches pending would be a start. Good grief, how easy do we have to make it? http://bugs.debian.org/tag:patch http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=&include=patch See the form at http://bugs.debian.org/ which gives pointy-clicky access to these. -- Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Getting patches into packages, thought and ideas [Was: Re: About NM and Next Release]
On Thu, Aug 07, 2003 at 05:42:36PM +0200, Goswin von Brederlow wrote: > Maybe an interface/filter for the bts that gives one a more easy > access to packages with patches pending would be a start. Or a system Try http://bugs.debian.org/tag:patch . -- "You grabbed my hand and we fell into it, like a daydream - or a fever."
Getting patches into packages, thought and ideas [Was: Re: About NM and Next Release]
Eduard Bloch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Moin Goswin! > Goswin von Brederlow schrieb am Thursday, den 07. August 2003: > > > > > Working on boot-floppies and debian-installer is not realy fruitfull > > > > as non-DD. cvs access goes a long way there. > > > > > > I must have severe reading and parsing problems today, because I don't > > > understand what you are saying. The way we handle this in d-i, is that we > > > encourage contributors to send patches to the mailing list. If the patches > > > are good, we apply them. When we get tired of applying good patches, we > > > get the person a pserver cvs account. When we get tired of uploading their > > > packages, we bug them to become developers and carefully prod elmo about > > > it, too. > > > > e.g. my devfs patches never got added to boot-floppies to my knowledge > > and I never got told what would be wrong with them. > > Somehow I cannot remember devfs patches from you - was it in the time > when Adam was the main developer? Currently BenC is working on basic > devfs integration, feel free to help. It was between potato and woody and I had a complete diff to make the to be woody boot-floppies work with a 2.4.x kernel with devfs including, a bit later, the neccessary patches for sysvinit and some other tools to make devfs/non-devfs transparent to the config. But its water under the bridge. > > For the mklibs.py changes Falk Hueffner was luckily intrested and I > > can prod him physically so he coauthored and got them added. Without > > him I wouldn't have bothered trying to write patches due to my > > boot-floppies experience. > > What we need is a database with simple mailing list function (similar to > PTS) where willing sponsors for a certain package can subscribe and > sponsorees with much motivation can send diffs for the next version > upgrade. Easy to review and check, easy to build and upload. And easy to > comment and communicate with other sponsors or co-maintainers. Like the Patch Manager on Sourceforge? Maybe an interface/filter for the bts that gives one a more easy access to packages with patches pending would be a start. Or a system like the translation system. When a patch is in BTS without a reaction from the maintainer for some time its send to some idle maintainer for review. If hes unresponsive within a week/month the patch is resend to the next and so on. Or that lengthily discussed wag-a-bug game where maintainers get assigned older pending bugs and get points for fixing. MfG Goswin
