Re: Libre graphics could become the standard if we push right now

2016-01-19 Thread gaffa 
It's an MIT license:

https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/stable/linux-stable.git/tree/firmware/WHENCE#n758


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Re: Libre graphics could become the standard if we push right now

2016-01-19 Thread Bas Wijnen 
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On Tue, Jan 19, 2016 at 06:57:43PM +0100, gaffa wrote:
> It's an MIT license:
> 
> https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/stable/linux-stable.git/tree/firmware/WHENCE#n758

That's a fine license as far as the DFSG is concerned, but as long as they
don't provide source, it's still not free software.

Thanks,
Bas
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Re: Libre graphics could become the standard if we push right now

2016-01-19 Thread Ben Finney 
Bas Wijnen  writes:

> On Tue, Jan 19, 2016 at 06:57:43PM +0100, gaffa wrote:
> > It's an MIT license:
> > 
> That's a fine license as far as the DFSG is concerned, but as long as
> they don't provide source, it's still not free software.

Indeed, as far as the DFSG is concerned, it needs to be applied to
*specific works* with their license conditions, not license texts in
isolation.

This case is a clear demonstration of why asking “does this license make
the work DFSG-free?” is no use absent the context of a specific work.

-- 
 \“Every sentence I utter must be understood not as an |
  `\  affirmation, but as a question.” —Niels Bohr |
_o__)  |
Ben Finney

Re: Libre graphics could become the standard if we push right now

2016-01-16 Thread shawn wilson 
On Jan 16, 2016 1:30 AM, "gaffa"  wrote:
>
> The firmware has a free license if you are to believe the WENCE file in
the
> kernel.
>

Ummm, just a guess but I think that would be talking about transferring
ownership and not on reverse engineering (for instance).

Re: Libre graphics could become the standard if we push right now

2016-01-15 Thread Svante Signell 
On Fri, 2016-01-15 at 04:57 -0500, shawn wilson wrote:
> 
> On Jan 14, 2016 5:11 PM, "Zlatan Todoric"  wrote:
> 
> > > So I think it is very important that we support AMD right now on what we
> > > can, and ask manufacturers to include AMD graphics in those products.
> > >
> >
> > You do realize that AMD graphics need proprietary firmware to have
> > proper 3D acceleration without which you probably couldn't run any game
> > at all - so goodbye Libre graphics.
> >
> Besides that, AMD's fglrx require X to be running in order to run while nVidia
> does not (kinda sucks if you have a bunch of 8 card nodes using the cards for
> scientific applications). Also, in this setting, there were a lot more issues
> with AMD than nVidia (soft crashes, hard crashes, cards going offline until
> reboot).
> I'm not a big gamer, so maybe there are less issues with AMD in this setting.
> And I'd be thrilled if either fglrx or nv were OSS (would weigh heavily on
> purchasing decisions). However, because AMD really pissed me off here, I had
> to say something here.

Well, I don't think the issue is about the non-free driver fglrx, but the open
source radeon drivers. fglrx is as bad as the nVidia non-free ones. BTW: nv is
OSS (Open Source Software), however with limited performance due to lacking open
documentation of the nVidia graphics hardware. The closed firmware issue is
another story...

Re: Libre graphics could become the standard if we push right now

2016-01-15 Thread Stefan Monnier 
>> So I think it is very important that we support AMD right now on what we
>> can, and ask manufacturers to include AMD graphics in those products.
> You do realize that AMD graphics need proprietary firmware to have
> proper 3D acceleration without which you probably couldn't run any game
> at all - so goodbye Libre graphics.

That's still much better than the situation with Nvidia.
But your point is well taken: we should put most pressure on Nvidia
while keeping the pressure on AMD.


Stefan

Re: Libre graphics could become the standard if we push right now

2016-01-15 Thread gaffa 
The firmware has a free license if you are to believe the WENCE file in the
kernel.

Re: Libre graphics could become the standard if we push right now

2016-01-15 Thread shawn wilson 
On Jan 14, 2016 5:11 PM, "Zlatan Todoric"  wrote:
>
>
>
> On 01/14/2016 09:11 PM, Alberto Salvia Novella wrote:
> > Nearly all compact Linux computers feasible for gaming are sold
> > exclusively using NVIDIA graphics, and that company is hostile to libre
> > software.
> >
> > So I think it is very important that we support AMD right now on what we
> > can, and ask manufacturers to include AMD graphics in those products.
> >
>
> You do realize that AMD graphics need proprietary firmware to have
> proper 3D acceleration without which you probably couldn't run any game
> at all - so goodbye Libre graphics.
>

Besides that, AMD's fglrx require X to be running in order to run while
nVidia does not (kinda sucks if you have a bunch of 8 card nodes using the
cards for scientific applications). Also, in this setting, there were a lot
more issues with AMD than nVidia (soft crashes, hard crashes, cards going
offline until reboot).

I'm not a big gamer, so maybe there are less issues with AMD in this
setting. And I'd be thrilled if either fglrx or nv were OSS (would weigh
heavily on purchasing decisions). However, because AMD really pissed me off
here, I had to say something here.

> > Because of that I have started campaigning for it:
> > http://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/11/458606248621316073/
> >

Re: Libre graphics could become the standard if we push right now

2016-01-14 Thread Michael Haney 
On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 4:10 PM, Zlatan Todoric  wrote:

>
>
> On 01/14/2016 09:11 PM, Alberto Salvia Novella wrote:
> > Nearly all compact Linux computers feasible for gaming are sold
> > exclusively using NVIDIA graphics, and that company is hostile to libre
> > software.
> >
> > So I think it is very important that we support AMD right now on what we
> > can, and ask manufacturers to include AMD graphics in those products.
> >
>
> You do realize that AMD graphics need proprietary firmware to have
> proper 3D acceleration without which you probably couldn't run any game
> at all - so goodbye Libre graphics.
>
> > Because of that I have started campaigning for it:
> > http://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/11/458606248621316073/
> >
> >
>

Uh, excuse me...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPUOpen
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/12/amd-embraces-open-source-to-take-on-nvidias-gameworks/
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-gpuopen-open-source-development,30750.html

It's time we started promoting AMD rather than Nvidia for Linux graphics.

-- 
Michael "TheZorch" Haney
https://sites.google.com/site/thezorch/

"You will not have our hatred, we choose love over fear! Our prayer: we
refuse to become a monster to defeat a monster."
--Bono

Free Your PC, Open Your Mind www.ubuntu.com

Libre graphics could become the standard if we push right now

2016-01-14 Thread Alberto Salvia Novella 
Nearly all compact Linux computers feasible for gaming are sold 
exclusively using NVIDIA graphics, and that company is hostile to libre 
software.


So I think it is very important that we support AMD right now on what we 
can, and ask manufacturers to include AMD graphics in those products.


Because of that I have started campaigning for it:
http://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/11/458606248621316073/





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Re: Libre graphics could become the standard if we push right now

2016-01-14 Thread Zlatan Todoric 


On 01/14/2016 09:11 PM, Alberto Salvia Novella wrote:
> Nearly all compact Linux computers feasible for gaming are sold
> exclusively using NVIDIA graphics, and that company is hostile to libre
> software.
> 
> So I think it is very important that we support AMD right now on what we
> can, and ask manufacturers to include AMD graphics in those products.
> 

You do realize that AMD graphics need proprietary firmware to have
proper 3D acceleration without which you probably couldn't run any game
at all - so goodbye Libre graphics.

> Because of that I have started campaigning for it:
> http://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/11/458606248621316073/
> 
> 
>