Pre-linux Windows program - was Re: bill gates Linux
Reading the thread on installation from Windows - one thing which might help new Linux users would be a program which they ran from Windows before they started, which would record all the things Windows knows about their system which will be required by a Linux installation. This could include information on the hardware, such as graphics cards, and some things related to the user, such as language settings and time zones. These could be written to a floppy and used to supply the information which Debian Installer will need (a bit like a RedHat Kickstart floppy) John Lines
Re: Pre-linux Windows program - was Re: bill gates Linux
On Sun, 2002-12-08 at 15:25, John Lines wrote: Reading the thread on installation from Windows - one thing which might help new Linux users would be a program which they ran from Windows before they started, which would record all the things Windows knows about their system which will be required by a Linux installation. This could include information on the hardware, such as graphics cards, and some things related to the user, such as language settings and time zones
Re: Pre-linux Windows program - was Re: bill gates Linux
On Sun, 08 Dec 2002, John Lines wrote: Reading the thread on installation from Windows - one thing which might help new Linux users would be a program which they ran from Windows before they started, which would record all the things Windows knows about their system which will be required by a Linux installation. This could include information on the hardware, such as graphics cards, and some things related to the user, such as language settings and time zones. These could be written to a floppy and used to supply the information which Debian Installer will need (a bit like a RedHat Kickstart floppy) IIRC, the Corel Linux installer did something like this. Since they sold the rights to Xandros, I assume the Xandros installer does the same thing. Damian -- Damian Gryski | There is a crack, a crack in everything. [EMAIL PROTECTED] | That's how the light gets in. gnu / geek / juggler / coder / compsci / crypto / security pgpKmIJd0SoTq.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Pre-linux Windows program - was Re: bill gates Linux
Hi, On Sun, Dec 08, 2002 at 02:25:19PM +, John Lines wrote: Reading the thread on installation from Windows - one thing which might help new Linux users would be a program which they ran from Windows before they started, which would record all the things Windows knows about their system which will be required by a Linux installation. This could include information on the hardware, such as graphics cards, and some things related to the user, such as language settings and time zones. These could be written to a floppy and used to supply the information which Debian Installer will need (a bit like a RedHat Kickstart floppy) Another idea: why not support an installation in an ext2 filesystem which is really a big file on a Windows VFAT partition, mounted using a loopback device? That would do away with all the partitioning; that would only be needed when the user wants to get rid of the relatively minor performance penalty of the extra FS layer. Can Linux work with a loopback root fs, using initrd to set it up? Cheers, Emile. -- E-Advies / Emile van Bergen | [EMAIL PROTECTED] tel. +31 (0)70 3906153| http://www.e-advies.info pgpr258QC6y3r.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Pre-linux Windows program - was Re: bill gates Linux
On Sun, Dec 08, 2002 at 04:22:52PM +0100, Adrian 'Dagurashibanipal' von Bidder wrote: Hmmm, ok, on 2nd thought there's modems, printers, and old ISA cards. Anything else? What about configurations for IP, DNS, mail and news? I don't see why it would be limited to hardware detection. Richard Braakman
Re: Pre-linux Windows program - was Re: bill gates Linux
On Mon, 9 Dec 2002 02:30, Emile van Bergen wrote: Another idea: why not support an installation in an ext2 filesystem which is really a big file on a Windows VFAT partition, mounted using a loopback device? That would do away with all the partitioning; that would only be needed when the user wants to get rid of the relatively minor performance penalty of the extra FS layer. Can Linux work with a loopback root fs, using initrd to set it up? Cheers, Actually I think Mandrake might do something roughly like that if you use the easy option rather than expert mode. After an easy mode installation it takes a wet week to do anything at all (on a Pentium 233 box). The same distro on the same box is quite quick after a so called expert mode install. Bob
Re: Pre-linux Windows program - was Re: bill gates Linux
On Sun, Dec 08, 2002 at 04:30:10PM +0100, Emile van Bergen wrote: Another idea: why not support an installation in an ext2 filesystem which is really a big file on a Windows VFAT partition, mounted using a loopback device? That would do away with all the partitioning; that would only be needed when the user wants to get rid of the relatively minor performance penalty of the extra FS layer. Are VFAT partitions still common? I thought Windows 2000 and XP both used NTFS by default. And last time I tried (about a year ago, I think) mounting NTFS read-write on Linux was still flaky. I also question whether the performance penalty would be relatively minor, especially if you treat the swap device the same way. But that can be measured. If it's significant, then I think this option should not be encouraged, because it would give Linux an undeserved bad name among precisely the people we hope to convert. Richard Braakman
Re: Pre-linux Windows program - was Re: bill gates Linux
On Sun, Dec 08, 2002 at 07:04:46PM +0200, Richard Braakman [EMAIL PROTECTED] was heard to say: On Sun, Dec 08, 2002 at 04:30:10PM +0100, Emile van Bergen wrote: Another idea: why not support an installation in an ext2 filesystem which is really a big file on a Windows VFAT partition, mounted using a loopback device? That would do away with all the partitioning; that would only be needed when the user wants to get rid of the relatively minor performance penalty of the extra FS layer. Are VFAT partitions still common? I thought Windows 2000 and XP both used NTFS by default. And last time I tried (about a year ago, I think) mounting NTFS read-write on Linux was still flaky. That may be true, but most of the Windows users I know still have a 95 variant on their computer. Daniel -- / Daniel Burrows [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---\ | I haven't lost my mind, | | I know exactly where I left it. | \--- (if (not (understand-this)) (go-to http://www.schemers.org)) /
Re: Pre-linux Windows program - was Re: bill gates Linux
On Sun, Dec 08, 2002 at 02:25:19PM +, John Lines wrote: Reading the thread on installation from Windows - one thing which might help new Linux users would be a program which they ran from Windows before they started, which would record all the things Windows knows about their system which will be required by a Linux installation. This could include information on the hardware, such as graphics cards, and some things related to the user, such as language settings and time zones. These could be written to a floppy and used to supply the information which Debian Installer will need (a bit like a RedHat Kickstart floppy) Why make it a separate program that runs under Windows? Why not mount the Windows partition from the Linux installer, and read the registry from there? -- Steve Langasek postmodern programmer pgp0U1FBMxOhM.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Pre-linux Windows program - was Re: bill gates Linux
Hi, On Sun, Dec 08, 2002 at 11:31:11AM -0600, Steve Langasek wrote: Why make it a separate program that runs under Windows? Why not mount the Windows partition from the Linux installer, and read the registry from there? Because it's easier for Windows to read its own registry and write a portable ASCII file than it is for Linux, as you'd have to implement a 'fs' driver for it. Not that I think this is all necessarily a good idea though. Before you know, people will go back to Windows to change their IP address in Linux because they don't know how to do it there. Cheers, Emile. -- E-Advies / Emile van Bergen | [EMAIL PROTECTED] tel. +31 (0)70 3906153| http://www.e-advies.info
Re: Pre-linux Windows program - was Re: bill gates Linux
On Sun, Dec 08, 2002 at 07:08:17PM +0100, Emile van Bergen wrote: On Sun, Dec 08, 2002 at 11:31:11AM -0600, Steve Langasek wrote: Why make it a separate program that runs under Windows? Why not mount the Windows partition from the Linux installer, and read the registry from there? Because it's easier for Windows to read its own registry and write a portable ASCII file than it is for Linux, as you'd have to implement a 'fs' driver for it. Not that I think this is all necessarily a good idea though. Actually, I would find it significantly easier to borrow code from Wine to do registry parsing and run a tool against a Windows partition mounted read-only to extract the information we need, than I would to write a Windows application to do roughly the same thing. Before you know, people will go back to Windows to change their IP address in Linux because they don't know how to do it there. Well, since debconf is not a registry, that would be a little difficult, wouldn't it? -- Steve Langasek postmodern programmer pgpsSmiFXehjD.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Pre-linux Windows program - was Re: bill gates Linux
On Sun, Dec 08, 2002 at 07:04:46PM +0200, Richard Braakman wrote: Are VFAT partitions still common? I thought Windows 2000 and XP both used NTFS by default. And last time I tried (about a year ago, I think) mounting NTFS read-write on Linux was still flaky. But ISTR that _file_overwrite_ support for NTFS now works, to allow precisely the sort of loopback installation we're talking about! Cheers, Richard -- __ _ |_) /| Richard Atterer | CS student at the Technische | GnuPG key: | \/¯| http://atterer.net | Universität München, Germany | 0x888354F7 ¯ '` ¯
Re: Pre-linux Windows program - was Re: bill gates Linux
Hi, On Sun, Dec 08, 2002 at 12:24:56PM -0600, Steve Langasek wrote: On Sun, Dec 08, 2002 at 07:08:17PM +0100, Emile van Bergen wrote: On Sun, Dec 08, 2002 at 11:31:11AM -0600, Steve Langasek wrote: Why make it a separate program that runs under Windows? Why not mount the Windows partition from the Linux installer, and read the registry from there? Because it's easier for Windows to read its own registry and write a portable ASCII file than it is for Linux, as you'd have to implement a 'fs' driver for it. Not that I think this is all necessarily a good idea though. Actually, I would find it significantly easier to borrow code from Wine to do registry parsing and run a tool against a Windows partition mounted read-only to extract the information we need, than I would to write a Windows application to do roughly the same thing. Hum, yes, but that probably says more about 1. the excellent capabilities of the Wine team 2. lack of ability and willingness to write windows code on your part than the elegance of the solution - IMHO. Before you know, people will go back to Windows to change their IP address in Linux because they don't know how to do it there. Well, since debconf is not a registry, that would be a little difficult, wouldn't it? Well, I was thinking about horrible scenarios like, you know, I installed this Linux thing, and it used my network settings from Windows fine, but now I can't find out how to change it, so I figured I could change the settings in Windows and then reinstall Linux, so I did. Cheers, Emile. -- E-Advies / Emile van Bergen | [EMAIL PROTECTED] tel. +31 (0)70 3906153| http://www.e-advies.info
Re: Pre-linux Windows program - was Re: bill gates Linux
On Sun, Dec 08, 2002 at 11:45:04PM +0100, Emile van Bergen wrote: Actually, I would find it significantly easier to borrow code from Wine to do registry parsing and run a tool against a Windows partition mounted read-only to extract the information we need, than I would to write a Windows application to do roughly the same thing. Hum, yes, but that probably says more about 1. the excellent capabilities of the Wine team 2. lack of ability and willingness to write windows code on your part than the elegance of the solution - IMHO. Feel free to demonstrate the elegance of your own Windows code, then. Before you know, people will go back to Windows to change their IP address in Linux because they don't know how to do it there. Well, since debconf is not a registry, that would be a little difficult, wouldn't it? Well, I was thinking about horrible scenarios like, you know, I installed this Linux thing, and it used my network settings from Windows fine, but now I can't find out how to change it, so I figured I could change the settings in Windows and then reinstall Linux, so I did. There are some forms of idiocy that it's just not possible to proof against. shrug -- Steve Langasek postmodern programmer pgpkldHQULlox.pgp Description: PGP signature
