Re: Pronouns (was Re: Proposed Constitution)
--On Thu, Apr 30, 1998 1:03 pm +0200 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > I´m did a little research and nobody here at my university I ask (not > too many people, and not represantive, but FWIW) did know this use > of "they". > > I would really appreciate a list of word explanations, as reading > english legal texts is hard. I´m willing to learn new stuff, but > I hope that Ian can provide such a list. I'd just like to reassure you, Marcus, and any other non-English as first language speakers here, that Ian and I are not proposing Debian adopt some obscure antiquated english usage, just for the sake of it. This use of 'they' really is in common use in everyday conversation, in my experience, as well as in print. The idea of a language glossary for non-native-english speakers does sound like a good idea, however. Jules /+---+-\ | Jelibean aka | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | 6 Evelyn Rd| | Jules aka | | Richmond, Surrey | | Julian Bean | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| TW9 2TF *UK* | ++---+-+ | War doesn't demonstrate who's right... just who's left. | | When privacy is outlawed... only the outlaws have privacy. | \--/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Pronouns (was Re: Proposed Constitution)
I´m did a little research and nobody here at my university I ask (not too many people, and not represantive, but FWIW) did know this use of "they". I would really appreciate a list of word explanations, as reading english legal texts is hard. I´m willing to learn new stuff, but I hope that Ian can provide such a list. Marcus On Wed, Apr 29, 1998 at 10:37:36PM -0400, Raul Miller wrote: > Marcus Brinkmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I hope you are well aware of the fact that a lot of people will not > > understand it, and probably will ask you about it. I can tell you that most > > german readers may be confused. I don't know about other countries, but I > > assume the situation is not very different there. > > If this is a problem, we could fix it by supplying a short list of > definitions of words which are known problems for people with various > backgrounds. > > -- > Raul -- "Rhubarb is no Egyptian god."Debian GNU/Linuxfinger brinkmd@ Marcus Brinkmann http://www.debian.orgmaster.debian.org [EMAIL PROTECTED]for public PGP Key http://homepage.ruhr-uni-bochum.de/Marcus.Brinkmann/ PGP Key ID 36E7CD09 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Pronouns (was Re: Proposed Constitution)
Marcus Brinkmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I hope you are well aware of the fact that a lot of people will not > understand it, and probably will ask you about it. I can tell you that most > german readers may be confused. I don't know about other countries, but I > assume the situation is not very different there. If this is a problem, we could fix it by supplying a short list of definitions of words which are known problems for people with various backgrounds. -- Raul -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Pronouns (was Re: Proposed Constitution)
On Tue, Apr 28, 1998 at 05:02:57PM +0100, Ian Jackson wrote: > This discussion is ridiculous. > > In my view singular `they' is perfectly correct. If I can use it in > my PhD thesis (with a footnote[1] and supporting references, and > without any complaint from the examiners) then we can use it here. > > Furthermore, language is defined by use, not by prescription (try > asking a linguist, rather than a schoolteacher). Singular `they' is > very well accepted practice in this speech community; in the contexts > I have used it it is (I believe) clear, clean and unambiguous. I hope you are well aware of the fact that a lot of people will not understand it, and probably will ask you about it. I can tell you that most german readers may be confused. I don't know about other countries, but I assume the situation is not very different there. > I will not change the current draft, and blustering here will not make > me change my mind. If you're so horribly bothered you'll have to > propose an amendment; I wonder if you could find five sufficiently > anal (and wrong) supporters. Ian, I find your attitude arrogant and egocentric. Your constitution is hard enough to read for non-native speakers, and if you don't want to rule out people that don't have a Ph.D. in Oxford English, you probably want to reconsider your position. I will not make you the favour to propose a change, because I don't have the time for kid games and name calling. I only ask you to have a footnote explaining: If you need it in your Ph.D. to warrant this language, you certainly want it in an internationally used document, too. Remember that Linux as well as Debian is an international project. Marcus -- "Rhubarb is no Egyptian god."Debian GNU/Linuxfinger brinkmd@ Marcus Brinkmann http://www.debian.orgmaster.debian.org [EMAIL PROTECTED]for public PGP Key http://homepage.ruhr-uni-bochum.de/Marcus.Brinkmann/ PGP Key ID 36E7CD09 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Pronouns (was Re: Proposed Constitution)
This discussion is ridiculous. In my view singular `they' is perfectly correct. If I can use it in my PhD thesis (with a footnote[1] and supporting references, and without any complaint from the examiners) then we can use it here. Furthermore, language is defined by use, not by prescription (try asking a linguist, rather than a schoolteacher). Singular `they' is very well accepted practice in this speech community; in the contexts I have used it it is (I believe) clear, clean and unambiguous. I will not change the current draft, and blustering here will not make me change my mind. If you're so horribly bothered you'll have to propose an amendment; I wonder if you could find five sufficiently anal (and wrong) supporters. Ian. [1] The footnote reads: I follow well-established English practice in using the terms `they', `their' and `them' as gender-neutral singulars, as well as plurals [OED89, vol.XVII, p.928, col.3, `they', 2nd sense] [Churchyard97] The references are: [OED89] `Oxford English Dictionary'. Oxford University Press. 2nd ed., 1989 [Churchyard97] Henry Churchyard, `Singular `their' in Jane Austen and elsewhere'. http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/austheir.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
