Re: RFC on mysql 4.1 in sarge
On Wed, May 18, 2005 at 05:33:01PM -0400, sean finney wrote: On Wed, May 18, 2005 at 11:00:29PM +0200, Adrian Bunk wrote: ... Other issues like #308762 are also still possible on direct mysql-server/woody - mysql-server-4.1/sarge upgrade paths - and there will be users doing such upgrade paths. i'm going to call you out on this again. if there are problems, please stop making vague asides report the bugs. Last time, I sent a perfectly fine bug report after verifying exactly what the problem was (which always takes some time). This time I have to correct myself: I tried to reproduce the problem, but wasn't able to. sean cu Adrian -- Is there not promise of rain? Ling Tan asked suddenly out of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days. Only a promise, Lao Er said. Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RFC on mysql 4.1 in sarge
On Thu, May 19, 2005 at 02:49:13AM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote: ... I see the same three options. Joey has said he is working on a final woody point release for the last weekend in May; you'll probably need to coordinate with him and get something uploaded soon if you want to try for this option. AFAIR, upgrades from Debian 3.0r0 to Debian 3.1 are supported. If this is not true, Debian 3.1 CDs will have to include a CD that upgrade Debian 3.0r0 to Debian 3.0r7 or you will leave your users without an upgrade path. 3 does not sound so bad to me; it's arguably user error anyway to replace a package-provided directory with a symlink in this manner, so having a corner case of partially upgraded woody system and installing mysql-server-4.1 and messed with a package directory is not the end of the world... It's a quite common usage in database environments. Cheers, Steve Langasek cu Adrian -- Is there not promise of rain? Ling Tan asked suddenly out of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days. Only a promise, Lao Er said. Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RFC on mysql 4.1 in sarge
On Thu, May 19, 2005 at 08:35:03AM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote: On Thu, May 19, 2005 at 05:08:28PM +0200, GOMBAS Gabor wrote: On Thu, May 19, 2005 at 02:49:13AM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote: 3 does not sound so bad to me; it's arguably user error anyway to replace a package-provided directory with a symlink in this manner If you consider this an user error, then what is the officially blessed way of relocating a package-prodived directory to a different (already mounted) file system? currently, that would be bind mounts. Which are not supported by most kernels shipped with woody. Steve Langasek cu Adrian -- Is there not promise of rain? Ling Tan asked suddenly out of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days. Only a promise, Lao Er said. Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RFC on mysql 4.1 in sarge
On Sun, May 22, 2005 at 12:01:58AM +0200, Adrian Bunk wrote: On Thu, May 19, 2005 at 02:49:13AM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote: ... I see the same three options. Joey has said he is working on a final woody point release for the last weekend in May; you'll probably need to coordinate with him and get something uploaded soon if you want to try for this option. AFAIR, upgrades from Debian 3.0r0 to Debian 3.1 are supported. Yes, this works, I've done it recently at home - with one caveat. I installed the system from a Woody DVD (Linux Emporium 3.0r0) BUT then immediately upgraded it from the network - which took it to 3.0r6 or whatever - before apt-get upgrading to 3.1. As/when Woody becomes oldstable - hopefully at the end of the month, we'll still need to keep that upgrade path via the network available to patch Woody 3.0r??? to 3.0r7 in preparation for 3.1. The other alternative for those few people without a network connection is to essentially include a complete Woody in the Sarge DVD's :( [This would add another DVD which would probably make four for some architectures for the binaries - Hmm, two double sided DVD's for binaries + same for source makes four DVD's - would package well in an Infomagic style box :) ] If this is not true, Debian 3.1 CDs will have to include a CD that upgrade Debian 3.0r0 to Debian 3.0r7 or you will leave your users without an upgrade path. Sarge on CD is going to be pretty unwieldy. 14/15 CD's of binaries plus the same of source. I've recently installed Sarge on a non-networked machine which needed to have access to everything Debian so needed to burn those 14. The number of people needing to do this is probably going to be fairly small - but I was landed with a new server which ONLY had a CD drive because the DVD drive cost significantly more. [When I mentioned that the machine it replaces had a DVD writer for backups and data transfer, the sysadmin went white at the probable cost and paperwork needed to get the upgrade done at all - bloody proprietary hardware :) ] Andy -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RFC on mysql 4.1 in sarge
hey, On Thu, May 19, 2005 at 08:35:03AM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote: 3 does not sound so bad to me; it's arguably user error anyway to replace a package-provided directory with a symlink in this manner If you consider this an user error, then what is the officially blessed way of relocating a package-prodived directory to a different (already mounted) file system? currently, that would be bind mounts. policy could definitely be more clear on this. specifically, 6.5.4 is somewhat misleading in that case: A directory will never be replaced by a symbolic link to a directory or vice versa; instead, the existing state (symlink or not) will be left alone and dpkg will follow the symlink if there is one. and i had never really heard that symlinking was to be frowned upon. i do like your suggestion of bind mounts though, and will probably do that myself in the future. sean -- signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: RFC on mysql 4.1 in sarge
hey, On Thu, May 19, 2005 at 02:49:13AM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote: I see the same three options. Joey has said he is working on a final woody point release for the last weekend in May; you'll probably need to coordinate with him and get something uploaded soon if you want to try for this option. okay, i'm going to make an upload to stable-proposed-updates at some point this weekend, after i've verified that i can make such a fix. i'll then leave it joey to decide whether or not it warrants being included. 3 does not sound so bad to me; it's arguably user error anyway to replace a package-provided directory with a symlink in this manner, so having a corner case of partially upgraded woody system and installing mysql-server-4.1 and messed with a package directory is not the end of the world... that's my thoughts. anyone who jumps from mysql-server in woody to mysql-server-4.1 in a completely new release of debian without dist-upgrading their system first should *expect* for there to be a problem, and at the very least we've gone out of our way to identify it and tell them what they have to do to fix it :) sean -- signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: RFC on mysql 4.1 in sarge
On Wednesday 18 of May 2005 17:23, sean finney wrote: - people often symlink the mysql datadir (/var/lib/mysql) and logdir (/var/log/mysql) to somewhere else, such as /usr/local - because these two directories are in the files.list of woody's mysql server, upgrading to packages in sarge leads to the symlinks being removed and replaced with empty directories. I think the most cleanest solution would be to use dpkg diversion for the directory. It is possible but the /var/lib/dpkg/diversions file have to be modified by hand. I've beed reported with similar problem about /var/www - /home/www symlink and the diversion was helpful. -- .''`.Piotr Roszatycki, Netia SA : :' :mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] `. `' mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] `- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RFC on mysql 4.1 in sarge
Hi Sean, On Wed, May 18, 2005 at 11:23:35AM -0400, sean finney wrote: the following upgrade paths work: mysql-server/woody - mysql-server/sarge mysql-server/woody - mysql-server/sarge - mysql-server-4.1/sarge but this does not: mysql-server/woody - mysql-server-4.1/sarge so at this point, we're not sure what to do to cover this last problem, as we have no guarantee the preinst of mysql-server-4.1 will even run before mysql-server/woody is removed. the only fix we can think of is to remove the two directories from the files.list of the woody package. so we've come up with three options, none of which are great: 1 the most recenty woody security update caused problems for some people, and there's a package already waiting to go in to fix this problem. we could put a fix into the woody mysql-server package into this package before the security team handles it. 2 if there's going to be a final woody point release, we could put a fixed version in there 3 give up on trying to fix it, assume that symlinks might get lost, and put something in a README file telling users what they have to do in order to fix up their database after restoring the symlinks. i don't see 1 happening, i don't know if the prerequisite (woody release update) for 2 is going to happen, and 3 doesn't make me all too happy as a solution. so, questions, comments, suggestions all welcome, I see the same three options. Joey has said he is working on a final woody point release for the last weekend in May; you'll probably need to coordinate with him and get something uploaded soon if you want to try for this option. 3 does not sound so bad to me; it's arguably user error anyway to replace a package-provided directory with a symlink in this manner, so having a corner case of partially upgraded woody system and installing mysql-server-4.1 and messed with a package directory is not the end of the world... Cheers, -- Steve Langasek postmodern programmer signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: RFC on mysql 4.1 in sarge
Hello On 2005-05-19 Steve Langasek wrote: ... so we've come up with three options, none of which are great: 1 the most recenty woody security update caused problems for some people, and there's a package already waiting to go in to fix this problem. we could put a fix into the woody mysql-server package into this package before the security team handles it. 2 if there's going to be a final woody point release, we could put a fixed version in there 3 give up on trying to fix it, assume that symlinks might get lost, and put something in a README file telling users what they have to do in order to fix up their database after restoring the symlinks. ... I see the same three options. Joey has said he is working on a final woody point release for the last weekend in May; you'll probably need to coordinate with him and get something uploaded soon if you want to try for this option. 3 does not sound so bad to me; it's arguably user error anyway to replace a package-provided directory with a symlink in this manner, so having a corner case of partially upgraded woody system and installing mysql-server-4.1 and messed with a package directory is not the end of the world... I guess you missed my response to this thread so I here the relevant parts: As a direct upgrade from mysql-server (3.23) to mysql-server-4.1 without a prior upgrade to mysql-server (4.0) is quite unlikely, I would like to see our last upload, which in addition has some notes in README.Debian and the Debconf installation notes regarding this, to be accepted for Sarge. Relevant versions are 4.1.11a-2 and 4.0.24-10. [new: 2nd issue - statically linked db3] The new bug #308966 complains that mysql-server and libnss-db produce segfault crashes as mysql-server until now still had the obsolete BDB (aka BerkeleyDB) engine enabled which uses a statically linked local db3 version. Thus BDB support could now complete been removed as luckily support for BDB was not present on most architectures, disabled by default and being warned at startup for a while now and will most likely be removed in 5.0 upstream anyway. Or we could try a patch that Piotr Roszatycki is currently evaluating which would add versioned symbols to the bdb functions in MySQL. He already suspected though, that the patch would not be a oneliner.. So do you want 1. just stay with 4.1.11a-2 and the bug 2. an upload without BDB support as 4.1.11a-3 3. wait to decide upon the forthcoming versioned symbols patch later bye, -christian- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RFC on mysql 4.1 in sarge
On Thu, May 19, 2005 at 02:49:13AM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote: 3 does not sound so bad to me; it's arguably user error anyway to replace a package-provided directory with a symlink in this manner If you consider this an user error, then what is the officially blessed way of relocating a package-prodived directory to a different (already mounted) file system? Gabor -- - MTA SZTAKI Computer and Automation Research Institute Hungarian Academy of Sciences - -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RFC on mysql 4.1 in sarge
On Thu, May 19, 2005 at 05:08:28PM +0200, GOMBAS Gabor wrote: On Thu, May 19, 2005 at 02:49:13AM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote: 3 does not sound so bad to me; it's arguably user error anyway to replace a package-provided directory with a symlink in this manner If you consider this an user error, then what is the officially blessed way of relocating a package-prodived directory to a different (already mounted) file system? currently, that would be bind mounts. -- Steve Langasek postmodern programmer signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: RFC on mysql 4.1 in sarge
Hello [1st RC issue - dpkg removes symlinks when upgrading from 3.23] As discussed before in some corner cases we can do nothing except for showing the user an explanation what happened which has been done in 4.1.11a-2 and 4.0.24-10. [2nd RC issue - statically linked db3] The new bug #308966 complains that mysql-server and libnss-db produce segfault crashes as mysql-server-4.1 until now still had the obsolete BDB (aka BerkeleyDB) engine enabled which uses a statically linked local db3 version. This affects only mysql-server-4.1, not the 4.0 branch. Option 3 changed: 1. just stay with 4.1.11a-2 and the bug 2. an upload without BDB support as 4.1.11a-3 3. an upload with Piotr Roszatyckis 8 line patch that mainly only adds --with-uniquename=_mysql to the configure options and runs sed over one header file (the actual diff is ~50 lines because the patch is been saved as dpatch file like all other patches, too) I verified that the patched package - runs in those cases where the old segfaultet - contains the unique-fied symbols only in /usr/sbin/mysqld and not in the libraries which would be problematic - succeeds the mysql benchmark and some basic tests I did The patch itself can be reviewed at http://www.lathspell.de/linux/debian/mysql/mysql-dfsg-4.1-4.1.11a.debian.diff So I'm in favour of 3. but could live with the other choices, too. Steve? bye, -christian- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RFC on mysql 4.1 in sarge
(please excuse the cross-posting, i felt it was necessary to get all affected parties' input) hi, for some time now, christian and i have been trying to build in a workaround for a rather tricky bug in the mysql-server and mysql-server-4.1 packages, and we'd like to field some comments on what other people (namely the security and release team, though others are welcome to chime in) think. so, the executive summary: - people often symlink the mysql datadir (/var/lib/mysql) and logdir (/var/log/mysql) to somewhere else, such as /usr/local - because these two directories are in the files.list of woody's mysql server, upgrading to packages in sarge leads to the symlinks being removed and replaced with empty directories. - this leads to a lot of confusion and service outages for people upgrading. worse, there are scripts that need to be run on the database during the upgrade process that could leave things in an even worse state by having a mysql 4.1 server trying to use a 3.23 database. so after a lot of teeth-gnashing and brainstorming we've come up with a way to prevent this from happening for upgrades of the mysql-server package (in the latest upload of mysql-server). however, the same method isn't 100% guaranteed to work for a direct mysql-server/woody - mysql-server-4.1/sarge upgrade, depending largely on in what order the packages are processed by the package management software. the following upgrade paths work: mysql-server/woody - mysql-server/sarge mysql-server/woody - mysql-server/sarge - mysql-server-4.1/sarge but this does not: mysql-server/woody - mysql-server-4.1/sarge so at this point, we're not sure what to do to cover this last problem, as we have no guarantee the preinst of mysql-server-4.1 will even run before mysql-server/woody is removed. the only fix we can think of is to remove the two directories from the files.list of the woody package. so we've come up with three options, none of which are great: 1 the most recenty woody security update caused problems for some people, and there's a package already waiting to go in to fix this problem. we could put a fix into the woody mysql-server package into this package before the security team handles it. 2 if there's going to be a final woody point release, we could put a fixed version in there 3 give up on trying to fix it, assume that symlinks might get lost, and put something in a README file telling users what they have to do in order to fix up their database after restoring the symlinks. i don't see 1 happening, i don't know if the prerequisite (woody release update) for 2 is going to happen, and 3 doesn't make me all too happy as a solution. so, questions, comments, suggestions all welcome, sean -- signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: RFC on mysql 4.1 in sarge
Quoting sean finney [EMAIL PROTECTED]: SNIP so at this point, we're not sure what to do to cover this last problem, as we have no guarantee the preinst of mysql-server-4.1 will even run before mysql-server/woody is removed. the only fix we can think of is to remove the two directories from the files.list of the woody package. so we've come up with three options, none of which are great: SNIP I may be misunderstanding what you are saying. But, I think that if you create a package called mysql-server-4.1-upgrage (or something else suitable) and then you make you make mysql-server-4.1 predepend on it, then mysql-server-4.1-upgrade can check for the existence of the symlinks. If the symlinks exist, it can move them aside, create the requisite directories, and then symlink in the new directories the contents of the directories pointed to by the old symlinks. This would at least ensure that people are not left with only empty directories and a non-function DB. -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sanchez http://familiasanchez.net/~sanchezr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RFC on mysql 4.1 in sarge
On Wed, May 18, 2005 at 11:23:35AM -0400, sean finney wrote: ... the following upgrade paths work: mysql-server/woody - mysql-server/sarge mysql-server/woody - mysql-server/sarge - mysql-server-4.1/sarge but this does not: mysql-server/woody - mysql-server-4.1/sarge so at this point, we're not sure what to do to cover this last problem, as we have no guarantee the preinst of mysql-server-4.1 will even run before mysql-server/woody is removed. the only fix we can think of is to remove the two directories from the files.list of the woody package. so we've come up with three options, none of which are great: 1 the most recenty woody security update caused problems for some people, and there's a package already waiting to go in to fix this problem. we could put a fix into the woody mysql-server package into this package before the security team handles it. 2 if there's going to be a final woody point release, we could put a fixed version in there You must not assume that users have the latest security fixes or the latest point releases installed. 3 give up on trying to fix it, assume that symlinks might get lost, and put something in a README file telling users what they have to do in order to fix up their database after restoring the symlinks. i don't see 1 happening, i don't know if the prerequisite (woody release update) for 2 is going to happen, and 3 doesn't make me all too happy as a solution. so, questions, comments, suggestions all welcome, 4 drop mysql-dfsg-4.1 from unstable/sarge Other issues like #308762 are also still possible on direct mysql-server/woody - mysql-server-4.1/sarge upgrade paths - and there will be users doing such upgrade paths. The whole mysql-dfsg/mysql-dfsg-4.1 setup is really ugly in some corner cases. Is shipping MySQL 4.1 with sarge really worth all the troubles, especially considering that MySQL 4.0 is quite usable? Also consider that some weeks from now MySQL 4.1 will also soon be no longer current when MySQL 5.0 will be released. sean cu Adrian -- Is there not promise of rain? Ling Tan asked suddenly out of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days. Only a promise, Lao Er said. Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RFC on mysql 4.1 in sarge
On Wed, May 18, 2005 at 11:00:29PM +0200, Adrian Bunk wrote: 4 drop mysql-dfsg-4.1 from unstable/sarge not exactly an attractive option, but i guess everything is on the table at this point so it's worth bringing up... the reverse dependencies aren't nearly as severe as i had assumed, actually, but it's still a rather drastic step to take. Other issues like #308762 are also still possible on direct mysql-server/woody - mysql-server-4.1/sarge upgrade paths - and there will be users doing such upgrade paths. i'm going to call you out on this again. if there are problems, please stop making vague asides report the bugs. sean -- signature.asc Description: Digital signature
