Re: [Fwd: False Representation at Google.com]
I demand that Branden Robinson may or may not have written... On Sun, Sep 07, 2003 at 11:02:09AM +1000, Russell Coker wrote: It wan't asking for help, it was asking that we change the way we do things for their minor benefit. Thinking that the world revolves around yourself is a serious attitude problem, and not something that we want to pander to. Precisely. As all right-thinking people know, the world revolves around *me*. Not possible. You'd have to be made of compact matter, and I'm quite sure that somebody would have noticed the gravitational effects by now... ;-) -- | Darren Salt | nr. Ashington, | linux (or ds) at | woody, sarge, | Northumberland | youmustbejoking | RISC OS | Toon Army | demon co uk | Oh, sarge too... As the dyslexic Jedi said, Sith happens.
Re: [Fwd: False Representation at Google.com]
On Sun, Sep 07, 2003 at 11:02:09AM +1000, Russell Coker wrote: It wan't asking for help, it was asking that we change the way we do things for their minor benefit. Thinking that the world revolves around yourself is a serious attitude problem, and not something that we want to pander to. Precisely. As all right-thinking people know, the world revolves around *me*. 8-) -- G. Branden Robinson| Debian GNU/Linux | De minimis non curat lex. [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://people.debian.org/~branden/ | pgpplYVZtfI3B.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [Fwd: False Representation at Google.com]
On Sun, 7 Sep 2003 13:56, Glenn Maynard wrote: On Sun, Sep 07, 2003 at 11:02:09AM +1000, Russell Coker wrote: Also the Driscoll is very annoying by using a false email address so it can't be replied to. As far as I'm concerned, mail that can't be replied to *is* spam. Fair enough. Ava Driscoll is a spammer then. -- http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/ My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page
Re: [Fwd: False Representation at Google.com]
I did not intend to send an Email that could not be replied to. However, I will send this post to let you know I do have Email -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Fwd: False Representation at Google.com]
On Friday 05 September 2003 23:34, Adam Borowski wrote: On Sat, 6 Sep 2003, Richard Braakman wrote: On Fri, Sep 05, 2003 at 05:12:35PM -0500, Adam Heath wrote: On Fri, 5 Sep 2003, Ava Driscoll wrote: I do not appreciate the following showing up: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2003/debian-devel-200306/msg0166 2.html That email was sent by a virus. This virus is really nasty. Are you sure? Looks like ordinary spam to me. And this cease desist was sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and then forwarded to us -- by the person who sent it?!? Some very broken mail agents are involved here. Anyway, I don't think we're being addressed at all. However, pulling that message from the list archives may be a good idea. It's what Ava Driscoll asked for, and the big HTML links sure don't look good on the Debian pages. follow the links and think about ava driscoll's possible objectives. if ava driscoll even exists, this is obviously an attempt to generate more traffic associated with that name. pulling the message from the archives might be a good idea, if for no other reason than to have this particular buck stop there. ben
Re: [Fwd: False Representation at Google.com]
On Sat, Sep 06, 2003 at 01:34:32AM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote: However, pulling that message from the list archives may be a good idea. It's what Ava Driscoll asked for, and the big HTML links sure don't look good on the Debian pages. Debian is not in the habit of editing its history (mailing list archives). Don't start down that slope. -- Glenn Maynard
Re: [Fwd: False Representation at Google.com]
Glenn Maynard [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Sat, Sep 06, 2003 at 01:34:32AM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote: However, pulling that message from the list archives may be a good idea. It's what Ava Driscoll asked for, and the big HTML links sure don't look good on the Debian pages. Debian is not in the habit of editing its history (mailing list archives). Don't start down that slope. So we have to keep the spam? Is that really part of the history? (I suppose that people occasionally reply to spam sent to debian lists, and some of the resulting conversation is amusing, so perhaps) However, if we were to remove the spam from the list archives, we certainly wouldn't want to give the impression that it's being done because this person asked us to improve his google vanity search. I seem to remember another case of someone wanting his mailing list posts purged so that his google vanity search would give the results he wanted; this person had actually participated in the discussions he now wished his name removed from, and we rightly told him that he was nuts. So does anyone feel like running spamassassin retroactively over old mailing list archives, manually checking the results, and coming up with a list of stuff to wipe out? Short of an exercise like that, I guess I can see where removing this spam could be something that would get pushed later.
Re: [Fwd: False Representation at Google.com]
Glenn Maynard [EMAIL PROTECTED] a tapoté : On Sat, Sep 06, 2003 at 01:34:32AM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote: However, pulling that message from the list archives may be a good idea. It's what Ava Driscoll asked for, and the big HTML links sure don't look good on the Debian pages. Debian is not in the habit of editing its history (mailing list archives). Don't start down that slope. Unfortunately, this kind of requests are beginning to come up very often. -- Mathieu Roy Homepage: http://yeupou.coleumes.org Not a native english speaker: http://stock.coleumes.org/doc.php?i=/misc-files/flawed-english
Re: [Fwd: False Representation at Google.com]
On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 01:26:00 -0400, Daniel Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Glenn Maynard [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Sat, Sep 06, 2003 at 01:34:32AM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote: However, pulling that message from the list archives may be a good idea. It's what Ava Driscoll asked for, and the big HTML links sure don't look good on the Debian pages. Debian is not in the habit of editing its history (mailing list archives). Don't start down that slope. So we have to keep the spam? Is that really part of the history? I think so. It shall help if someone tries to collect statistics on spam occurrence on the lists at a later date. (I suppose that people occasionally reply to spam sent to debian lists, and some of the resulting conversation is amusing, so perhaps) That too. So does anyone feel like running spamassassin retroactively over old mailing list archives, manually checking the results, and coming up with a list of stuff to wipe out? Short of an exercise like that, I guess I can see where removing this spam could be something that would get pushed later. I would much rather we did not revise history based on what we consider acceptable messages to the mailing list. manoj -- Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Salvor Hardin Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024R/C7261095 print CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05 CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C
Re: [Fwd: False Representation at Google.com]
On Sat, Sep 06, 2003 at 12:38:48AM -0400, Glenn Maynard wrote: Debian is not in the habit of editing its history (mailing list archives). Don't start down that slope. Spam is routinely removed from the BTS. -- You grabbed my hand and we fell into it, like a daydream - or a fever.
Re: Re: [Fwd: False Representation at Google.com]
I have sent a complaint regarding SPAM abuse to Yahoo regarding the originator of the SPAM. Perhaps I am not the only Ava Driscoll in the world. However, it is the name of my web portfolio site and the only name I ever had. I am against SPAM and it hurts to have it associated with my name in any way. It is disappointing that someone would use your mailing list and it shows up as no. 1 and 2 when I use my name. I have written to all the Administrative Debian Emails for help that I could find on the Debian.org web site requesting to remove the abusive link. The sooner the better.
Re: [Fwd: False Representation at Google.com]
On Sat, Sep 06, 2003 at 12:38:48AM -0400, Glenn Maynard wrote: However, pulling that message from the list archives may be a good idea. It's what Ava Driscoll asked for, and the big HTML links sure don't look good on the Debian pages. Debian is not in the habit of editing its history (mailing list archives). Don't start down that slope. It will be removed like any other spam. The value of spam that just happened to pass through our filtering to the history of Debian is paltry. It is the normal messages that should remain in the archive, not random junk. You have no idea how many napsters of porn, partying with porn stars, freeware for AS400, le newsletter d'ALLWAY Software, ... and of course gobs of CJK spam fortunately incomprehensible to me, I removed already. It goes so far that I recently noticed that those per-architecture -changes mailing lists weren't locked to be used only by dinstall, and were open to spamming. There were some where there wasn't a single useful message (e.g. from a buildd, they used to use them sometimes), and I zapped several whole list subdirectories. (I should probably remove them altogether if dak's not going to be extended to post to them. People who want this, this would be a good time to start working on that patch...) -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness.
Re: [Fwd: False Representation at Google.com]
On Fri, Sep 05, 2003 at 02:46:57PM -0700, Ava Driscoll wrote: I do not appreciate the following showing up: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2003/debian-devel-200306/msg01662.html Please cease and desist using my name. Thank you. It's not us, it's some random spammer whose spam happened to pass through our filters and it got archived on the web like any other message. Rest assured that I'll remove all similar digital cable filter spams from our list archive -- many had already been removed. -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness.
Re: [Fwd: False Representation at Google.com]
On Sat, 6 Sep 2003 18:22, Ava Driscoll wrote: I have sent a complaint regarding SPAM abuse to Yahoo regarding the originator of the SPAM. Perhaps I am not the only Ava Driscoll in the world. However, it is the name of my web portfolio site and the only name I ever had. I am against SPAM and it hurts to have it associated with my name in any way. It is disappointing that someone would use your mailing list and it shows up as no. 1 and 2 when I use my name. I The solution is really simple, become more popular! When you become popular and have lots of people linking to your site then google will give it a higher rating. Start by asking your friends to put links to your site. Then ask anyone who does a review of a web portfolio (whatever that may be) to include a link to your site. Make sure that the links to your site include your name in accompanying text. However if you want mailing list discussions about spam to be the hot items for a google search on your name then continue this discussion! Also for bonus points, if you annoy people here they may provide links from their web sites to this discussion, as many people here have high-ranked web sites that could result in a fairly permanent google result of a search for your name being this discussion. I presume that this is not what you want. If you REALLY want a good google result then you could always pay for some advertising, I understand that the payment model is per-hit so the cost of advertising should be directly proportional to the result. -- http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/ My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page
Re: [Fwd: False Representation at Google.com]
On Sat, Sep 06, 2003 at 11:46:47PM +1000, Russell Coker wrote: On Sat, 6 Sep 2003 18:22, Ava Driscoll wrote: I have sent a complaint regarding SPAM abuse to Yahoo regarding the originator of the SPAM. Perhaps I am not the only Ava Driscoll in the world. However, it is the name of my web portfolio site and the only name I ever had. I am against SPAM and it hurts to have it associated with my name in any way. It is disappointing that someone would use your mailing list and it shows up as no. 1 and 2 when I use my name. I The solution is really simple, become more popular! Given the tone of Driscoll's messages to us, whom are innocent bystanders in this affair, I think your solution is quite unlikely to happen. Driscoll appears to be one of those people who just needs someone to bitch at. Actually responding to the person makes them more likely to act as if you are accepting responsibility, and they become increasingly more harsh, shrill, and strident, and before you know it they're threatening to sue you even though you did nothing wrong and have nothing to do with what they're upset about. Our mailing lists have an email address, just as Driscoll does. Virus and worms put the two together randomly and automatically. Driscoll's message implies to me that he/she feels it is our responsibility to preserve his or her (according to Google) almost non-existent reputation, not up to him or her to develop a good one in the first place. Let me make it really simple: * The Debian Project is not responsible for the Joe Job forged emails created by SoBig.F and similar worms that infest Windows systems around the globe. * The Debian Project is not responsible for Google's search engine. As I understand it, the algorithms they use to generate their page rankings are a very closely guarded secret. Even if the Debian Project were motivated to help you restore your reputation to its minimal status before the SoBig.F worm struck, we could not reasonably do so without the cooperation of Google, Inc. The best thing we Debian Developers (and other interested subscribers to this mailing list) can do when we get mails from complaining people like this is to ignore them, as I'll wager the majority of other people Driscoll has mail-blitzed have done. The more we commisserate, the more these people's irrational minds associate us with the cause of their troubles. And yes, I have CCed [EMAIL PROTECTED] on purpose in this message. Yes, I'm a very blunt person and I don't sugar-coat things when people do the Internet equivalent of ringing my doorbell every five minutes to complain about how some shopkeeper 12 miles away wronged them. Ava Driscoll, please go away. We can't help you. We have work to do, developing an operating system that is far less susceptible to the type of email worm that has forged mails from you and literally millions of other people -- I get spams from myself every day. If you'd let us return to our work and stop irrationally and hysterically holding innocent parties responsible for the bad actions of others, maybe we can get back to making the world the kind of place where SoBig.F worms don't happen. Ava Driscoll, your grievance isn't with us. Write your Congressman or State Legislator and ask them to take the phenomenon of UBE (Unsolicited Bulk Email) more seriously. Best wishes, and please don't reply to this message. I suspect I'll never have cause to mail you again if you'll just leave me and my friends in the Debian Project alone (in other words, stop mailing us). -- G. Branden Robinson| Don't use nuclear weapons to Debian GNU/Linux | troubleshoot faults. [EMAIL PROTECTED] | -- US Air Force Instruction 91-111 http://people.debian.org/~branden/ | pgpelBrwBMKcU.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [Fwd: False Representation at Google.com]
On Sat, Sep 06, 2003 at 02:59:31PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: Given the tone of Driscoll's messages to us, whom are innocent bystanders in this affair, I think your solution is quite unlikely to happen. Huh? What's wrong with the tone? The first message wasn't to us, it was to the spammer. It was just copied to us, albeit in a less than clueful way. The second message just said s/he didn't like the situation and asked for our help. I am against SPAM and it hurts to have it associated with my name in any way. I can completely understand this sentiment. I also don't like it that there are zillions of spams out there purporting to come from me, and I wish I could do something about it. Richard Braakman
Re: [Fwd: False Representation at Google.com]
On Sun, 7 Sep 2003 07:35, Richard Braakman wrote: On Sat, Sep 06, 2003 at 02:59:31PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: Given the tone of Driscoll's messages to us, whom are innocent bystanders in this affair, I think your solution is quite unlikely to happen. Huh? What's wrong with the tone? The first message wasn't to us, it was to the spammer. It was just copied to us, albeit in a less than clueful way. The second message just said s/he didn't like the situation and asked for our help. It wan't asking for help, it was asking that we change the way we do things for their minor benefit. Thinking that the world revolves around yourself is a serious attitude problem, and not something that we want to pander to. I am against SPAM and it hurts to have it associated with my name in any way. I can completely understand this sentiment. I also don't like it that there are zillions of spams out there purporting to come from me, and I wish I could do something about it. However you can't and you don't bother other people about it. Also the Driscoll is very annoying by using a false email address so it can't be replied to. -- http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/ My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page
Re: [Fwd: False Representation at Google.com]
On Sun, Sep 07, 2003 at 11:02:09AM +1000, Russell Coker wrote: Also the Driscoll is very annoying by using a false email address so it can't be replied to. As far as I'm concerned, mail that can't be replied to *is* spam. -- Glenn Maynard
Re: [Fwd: False Representation at Google.com]
On Fri, 5 Sep 2003, Ava Driscoll wrote: Original Message Subject: False Representation at Google.com Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 14:20:27 -0700 From: Ava Driscoll [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I am experiencing bad results when I use Google: http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclientclient=REAL-tbq=Ava+Driscoll I do not appreciate the following showing up: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2003/debian-devel-200306/msg01662.html That email was sent by a virus. This virus is really nasty. On an infected host, it looks at the email address book, any emails sent/received, then picks random From and To addresses, and uses those in the headers of the mails it sends. So, while the mail itself wasn't actually sent by you, and your machine may not actually be infected, it looks like it did. There is not a whole lot that can be done about this.
RE: [Fwd: False Representation at Google.com]
Im sure your not the only Ava Driscoll in the world. Why dont you track the person down whos sending out the spam and ask him/her to cease desist using his/her name since he/she is the one sending the spam and not Debian. You have heard of Spam? -Original Message- From: Ava Driscoll [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 3:47 PM To: debian-devel@lists.debian.org Subject: [Fwd: False Representation at Google.com] Original Message Subject: False Representation at Google.com Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 14:20:27 -0700 From: Ava Driscoll [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I am experiencing bad results when I use Google: http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclientclient=REAL-tbq=Ava+DriscollI do not appreciate the following showing up: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2003/debian-devel-200306/msg01662.htmlPlease cease and desist using my name. Thank you.Sincerely,Ava Driscoll
Re: [Fwd: False Representation at Google.com]
On Fri, Sep 05, 2003 at 05:12:35PM -0500, Adam Heath wrote: On Fri, 5 Sep 2003, Ava Driscoll wrote: I do not appreciate the following showing up: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2003/debian-devel-200306/msg01662.html That email was sent by a virus. This virus is really nasty. Are you sure? Looks like ordinary spam to me. And this cease desist was sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and then forwarded to us -- by the person who sent it?!? Some very broken mail agents are involved here. Anyway, I don't think we're being addressed at all. Richard Braakman
Re: [Fwd: False Representation at Google.com]
On Sat, 6 Sep 2003, Richard Braakman wrote: On Fri, Sep 05, 2003 at 05:12:35PM -0500, Adam Heath wrote: On Fri, 5 Sep 2003, Ava Driscoll wrote: I do not appreciate the following showing up: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2003/debian-devel-200306/msg01662.html That email was sent by a virus. This virus is really nasty. Are you sure? Looks like ordinary spam to me. And this cease desist was sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and then forwarded to us -- by the person who sent it?!? Some very broken mail agents are involved here. Anyway, I don't think we're being addressed at all. However, pulling that message from the list archives may be a good idea. It's what Ava Driscoll asked for, and the big HTML links sure don't look good on the Debian pages. 1KB /---\ Shh, be vewy, vewy quiet, | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | I'm hunting wuntime ewwows! \---/ Segmentation fault (core dumped)
