Re: Andrew Suffield

[sean finney]

On Sun, Jan 15, 2006 at 11:58:51AM +0100, Adrian von Bidder wrote:
> Do you think your constant bitching is funny?  Do you think it achieves 
> anything?
> 
> There are other DDs who are also involved in intense debates and flamewars 
> very often, but you're the only one  where I constantly get the impression 
> that you're just being childish, insulting and annoying for the sake of it.

...says someone who just publicly ostracized a fellow dd
on a public mailing list.  personal opinions of the matter aside,
debian-devel is not the place for ridiculing other developers, no
matter how justified you feel you may be. 

please post follow-ups to -private.

sean

-- 


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Re: Andrew Suffield

[Joerg Jaspert]

On 10535 March 1977, Adrian von Bidder wrote:
> Do you think your constant bitching is funny?  Do you think it achieves 
> anything?

Do you think a constandt flaming on public lists is funny? Do you think
it achieves anything?

> There are other DDs who are also involved in intense debates and flamewars 
> very often, but you're the only one  where I constantly get the impression 
> that you're just being childish, insulting and annoying for the sake of it.

There are other DDs who want to go on with live and think this is
childisch, insulting and annoying.
Please take that to private mail, not public ones, it wont help anything
anywhere anyone.

-- 
bye Joerg
[Talking about Social Contract]:
We will not discriminate noone[...]
[So we discriminate anyone?]


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Re: Andrew Suffield

[Joe Wreschnig]

On Sun, 2006-01-15 at 06:28 -0500, sean finney wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 15, 2006 at 11:58:51AM +0100, Adrian von Bidder wrote:
> > Do you think your constant bitching is funny?  Do you think it achieves 
> > anything?
> > 
> > There are other DDs who are also involved in intense debates and flamewars 
> > very often, but you're the only one  where I constantly get the impression 
> > that you're just being childish, insulting and annoying for the sake of it.
> 
> ...says someone who just publicly ostracized a fellow dd
> on a public mailing list.  personal opinions of the matter aside,
> debian-devel is not the place for ridiculing other developers, no
> matter how justified you feel you may be. 
> 
> please post follow-ups to -private.

I said this on -private, and I'll say it here -- why is it appropriate
to be an ass on -private, but not on -devel? It's not appropriate
anywhere. That goes for Adrian, and Andrew, and everyone. It also leads
to situations like the present, where it looks like we're doing nothing
to reprimand offensive behavior, because most conversation is happening
on -private, while the original, offensive message is sitting on d-d-a.

If you are upset by how Andrew acted, talk to him rationally, regardless
of whether it's public or private.

If you are *very* upset by how Andrew acted, there is an appropriate and
agreed-to policy for expelling developers. Roger Leigh has mentioned his
interest in seeing this through; contact him.
-- 
Joe Wreschnig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Re: Andrew Suffield

[Dallam Wych]

On Sun, Jan 15, 2006 at 05:09:03PM -0600, Joe Wreschnig wrote:
> On Sun, 2006-01-15 at 06:28 -0500, sean finney wrote:
> > On Sun, Jan 15, 2006 at 11:58:51AM +0100, Adrian von Bidder wrote:
> > > Do you think your constant bitching is funny?  Do you think it achieves 
> > > anything?
> > > 
> > > There are other DDs who are also involved in intense debates and 
> > > flamewars 
> > > very often, but you're the only one  where I constantly get the 
> > > impression 
> > > that you're just being childish, insulting and annoying for the sake of 
> > > it.
> > 
> > ...says someone who just publicly ostracized a fellow dd
> > on a public mailing list.  personal opinions of the matter aside,
> > debian-devel is not the place for ridiculing other developers, no
> > matter how justified you feel you may be. 
> > 
> > please post follow-ups to -private.
> 
> I said this on -private, and I'll say it here -- why is it appropriate
> to be an ass on -private, but not on -devel? It's not appropriate
> anywhere. That goes for Adrian, and Andrew, and everyone. It also leads
> to situations like the present, where it looks like we're doing nothing
> to reprimand offensive behavior, because most conversation is happening
> on -private, while the original, offensive message is sitting on d-d-a.
> 
> If you are upset by how Andrew acted, talk to him rationally, regardless
> of whether it's public or private.
> 
> If you are *very* upset by how Andrew acted, there is an appropriate and
> agreed-to policy for expelling developers. Roger Leigh has mentioned his
> interest in seeing this through; contact him.
> -- 
> Joe Wreschnig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

I imagine that the ubuntu people, which include those on canonicals
payroll that are posting to this list, are really finding this kind of discord
within the Debian community quite comical and amusing.

Regards,
Dallam
-- 
Revenge is an integral part of forgiving and forgetting.
-- The BOFH


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Re: Andrew Suffield

[Gustavo Franco]

On 1/18/06, Dallam Wych <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 15, 2006 at 05:09:03PM -0600, Joe Wreschnig wrote:
> > On Sun, 2006-01-15 at 06:28 -0500, sean finney wrote:
> > > On Sun, Jan 15, 2006 at 11:58:51AM +0100, Adrian von Bidder wrote:
> > > > Do you think your constant bitching is funny?  Do you think it achieves
> > > > anything?
> > > >
> > > > There are other DDs who are also involved in intense debates and 
> > > > flamewars
> > > > very often, but you're the only one  where I constantly get the 
> > > > impression
> > > > that you're just being childish, insulting and annoying for the sake of 
> > > > it.
> > >
> > > ...says someone who just publicly ostracized a fellow dd
> > > on a public mailing list.  personal opinions of the matter aside,
> > > debian-devel is not the place for ridiculing other developers, no
> > > matter how justified you feel you may be.
> > >
> > > please post follow-ups to -private.
> >
> > I said this on -private, and I'll say it here -- why is it appropriate
> > to be an ass on -private, but not on -devel? It's not appropriate
> > anywhere. That goes for Adrian, and Andrew, and everyone. It also leads
> > to situations like the present, where it looks like we're doing nothing
> > to reprimand offensive behavior, because most conversation is happening
> > on -private, while the original, offensive message is sitting on d-d-a.
> >
> > If you are upset by how Andrew acted, talk to him rationally, regardless
> > of whether it's public or private.
> >
> > If you are *very* upset by how Andrew acted, there is an appropriate and
> > agreed-to policy for expelling developers. Roger Leigh has mentioned his
> > interest in seeing this through; contact him.
> > --
> > Joe Wreschnig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> I imagine that the ubuntu people, which include those on canonicals
> payroll that are posting to this list, are really finding this kind of discord
> within the Debian community quite comical and amusing.
>

You ignore that a lot of them are part of the Debian community. This
project would be better if people like you applied part of the
imagination to contribute (at least) with useful comments.

--
Gustavo Franco -- <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: Andrew Suffield

[Dallam Wych]

On Wed, Jan 18, 2006 at 06:57:13PM -0200, Gustavo Franco wrote:
> You ignore that a lot of them are part of the Debian community. This
> project would be better if people like you applied part of the
> imagination to contribute (at least) with useful comments.

Rather, I think *you* missed my point...I tend to be a bit dimissive
of people who change sides for a dollar/pound/whatever.  As for applying
my imagination, I contribute to Debian by way of local install fests,
helping steer new users in my community towards Debian, etc. Note
all us aren't whiz-bang programmers hence one *can* help Debian
without being a DD. I have been a Debian user for about four years
now, a linux user since '95...so don't do the glib disrespectful bit
on me.

Kind Regards,
Dallam
-- 
Revenge is an integral part of forgiving and forgetting.
-- The BOFH


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Re: Andrew Suffield

[Gustavo Franco]

On 1/18/06, Dallam Wych <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 18, 2006 at 06:57:13PM -0200, Gustavo Franco wrote:
> > You ignore that a lot of them are part of the Debian community. This
> > project would be better if people like you applied part of the
> > imagination to contribute (at least) with useful comments.
>
> Rather, I think *you* missed my point...I tend to be a bit dimissive
> of people who change sides for a dollar/pound/whatever.  As for applying
> my imagination, I contribute to Debian by way of local install fests,
> helping steer new users in my community towards Debian, etc. Note
> all us aren't whiz-bang programmers hence one *can* help Debian
> without being a DD. I have been a Debian user for about four years
> now, a linux user since '95...so don't do the glib disrespectful bit
> on me.
>

I'm glad that you contribute to Debian, you're part of the Debian
community as some people that you're pointing that changed sides for a
dollar. I'm sure that you don't know none of them, to say for sure.
Please, stop the troll here. If you really believe in what you're
saying go in the right ubuntu list and complain.

See, i haven't excluded you in my previous message, i don't even knew
if you were a DD, before replying. I don't care, i used the term
'community' and not 'whiz-bang programmers' or whatever.

--
Gustavo Franco - <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: Andrew Suffield

[Dallam Wych]

On Wed, Jan 18, 2006 at 07:19:55PM -0200, Gustavo Franco wrote:
> I'm glad that you contribute to Debian, you're part of the Debian
> community as some people that you're pointing that changed sides for a
> dollar. I'm sure that you don't know none of them, to say for sure.
> Please, stop the troll here. If you really believe in what you're
> saying go in the right ubuntu list and complain.

I find it quite interesting that you refer me to "the right ubuntu
list" to complain. It also seems to be quite fashionable to label
someone as a troll who disagrees with with anothers opinion.
As I see it, the ubuntu people are posting to *this* list. Perhaps
you should refer *them* to the ubuntu list? As to knowing any of them,
I'm assuming that you mean on a personal basis and if so then indeed
you are correct though I don't know what that has to do with anything.
I didn't know Richard Nixon or Margaret Thatcher on a personal basis
either, but I do know they made some bad errors in judgement. Excuse me
if I don't see the relevance of your comment.

> See, i haven't excluded you in my previous message, i don't even knew
> if you were a DD, before replying. I don't care, i used the term
> 'community' and not 'whiz-bang programmers' or whatever.

Right. My "whiz-bang programmer" comment probably is indictative of
an inner frustration in that I wish I had better programing skills so
that I could contribute to Debian more. It wasn't intended as a slight
to anyone else. Really.

Honestly, I don't want to have an argument with you or anyone else
about ubuntu. I think it really would be better to discuss ubuntu on
ubuntu lists.

Kind Regards,
Dallam
-- 
Revenge is an integral part of forgiving and forgetting.
-- The BOFH


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Re: Andrew Suffield

[Robert Collins]

On Wed, 2006-01-18 at 20:44 +, Dallam Wych wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 15, 2006 at 05:09:03PM -0600, Joe Wreschnig wrote:
> > On Sun, 2006-01-15 at 06:28 -0500, sean finney wrote:
> > > On Sun, Jan 15, 2006 at 11:58:51AM +0100, Adrian von Bidder wrote:
> > > > Do you think your constant bitching is funny?  Do you think it achieves 
> > > > anything?
> > > > 
> > > > There are other DDs who are also involved in intense debates and 
> > > > flamewars 
> > > > very often, but you're the only one  where I constantly get the 
> > > > impression 
> > > > that you're just being childish, insulting and annoying for the sake of 
> > > > it.
> > > 
> > > ...says someone who just publicly ostracized a fellow dd
> > > on a public mailing list.  personal opinions of the matter aside,
> > > debian-devel is not the place for ridiculing other developers, no
> > > matter how justified you feel you may be. 
> > > 
> > > please post follow-ups to -private.
> > 
> > I said this on -private, and I'll say it here -- why is it appropriate
> > to be an ass on -private, but not on -devel? It's not appropriate
> > anywhere. That goes for Adrian, and Andrew, and everyone. It also leads
> > to situations like the present, where it looks like we're doing nothing
> > to reprimand offensive behavior, because most conversation is happening
> > on -private, while the original, offensive message is sitting on d-d-a.
> > 
> > If you are upset by how Andrew acted, talk to him rationally, regardless
> > of whether it's public or private.
> > 
> > If you are *very* upset by how Andrew acted, there is an appropriate and
> > agreed-to policy for expelling developers. Roger Leigh has mentioned his
> > interest in seeing this through; contact him.
> > -- 
> > Joe Wreschnig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> I imagine that the ubuntu people, which include those on canonicals
> payroll that are posting to this list, are really finding this kind of discord
> within the Debian community quite comical and amusing.

No more or less comical or amusing than I found it before Canonical was
started. Which is to say, neither comical nor amusing.

Rob

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