Re: Bug#302138: incorrect Description line wrapping with bullet lists
On Wednesday 30 March 2005 09:56 am, Daniel Burrows wrote: We can also extend the description format in backwards-compatible ways. So, while a proper markup language would be nice, that doesn't preclude fixing the bullet problem, albeit in a slightly hacky way, NOW. What about this: This proposal is now mostly implemented in aptitude's experimental SVN branch, except that I decided to require exactly N+2 spaces of indentation for the contents of each entry in the list. It seems to work pretty well for most packages, although I haven't tested any packages that use sub-lists yet. (are there any?) A few packages that it can't figure out how to parse are displayed slightly worse -- usually a matter of indentation not quite lining up, so instead of * label: labelled lists are unfortunately not properly supported you get something like * label: labelled lists are unfortunately not properly supported In a quick scan of a few dozen packages, I only saw one (libcroco3) whose description was seriously damaged by the new formatting. Daniel -- /--- Daniel Burrows [EMAIL PROTECTED] --\ | A conclusion is the place | | where you got tired of thinking. | \--- Be like the kid in the movie! Play chess! -- http://www.uschess.org --/ pgp8mQs6MNTZA.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Bug#302138: incorrect Description line wrapping with bullet lists
[Branden Robinson] Branden Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: twofish Go ahead and file a bug for this one, please Sorry, no can do - twofish isn't actually uncontroversially buggy. It handles bullet lists in the de facto standard way, which I didn't like, but I have since been persuaded that it's possible to modify the tools to DTRT with it. And this style of formatting is more readable as plain text than the style I was advocating, so the more I think about it the more I'm convinced that the tools should be enhanced (and best practices docs updated), rather than the descriptions changed. Peter signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#302138: incorrect Description line wrapping with bullet lists
On Wed, Mar 30, 2005 at 03:54:36AM -0600, Peter Samuelson wrote: [Peter Samuelson] I'd like to file a mass bug for these, but it's on the order of 583 binary packages in 430 source packages, so I obviously want to get some feedback first. Jeroen van Wolffelaar pointed out to me that 430 source packages is a bit much for a mass bug, especially if lintian/linda could flag this stuff automatically, which is probably the case. Lars Wirzenius also suggested that I name names so people will know if they're affected. So here are source packages grouped by maintainer. Data is from /var/lib/apt/lists/*_Packages on an i386 sid box. [...] Branden Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: twofish Go ahead and file a bug for this one, please -- twofish sees so little activity that I'm likely to forget to fix this, and having an open bug report against it will remind me to start maintaining the package from a Subversion repository. Thanks for helping to make our package descriptions something we can be proud of! -- G. Branden Robinson| Debian GNU/Linux |Yeah, that's what Jesus would do. [EMAIL PROTECTED] |Jesus would bomb Afghanistan. Yeah. http://people.debian.org/~branden/ | signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#302138: incorrect Description line wrapping with bullet lists
[Peter Samuelson] I'd like to file a mass bug for these, but it's on the order of 583 binary packages in 430 source packages, so I obviously want to get some feedback first. Jeroen van Wolffelaar pointed out to me that 430 source packages is a bit much for a mass bug, especially if lintian/linda could flag this stuff automatically, which is probably the case. Lars Wirzenius also suggested that I name names so people will know if they're affected. So here are source packages grouped by maintainer. Data is from /var/lib/apt/lists/*_Packages on an i386 sid box. Peter APT Development Team [EMAIL PROTECTED]: python-apt Aaron Matthew Read [EMAIL PROTECTED]: smlnj Achim Bohnet [EMAIL PROTECTED]: digikamimageplugins, libkexif, libkipi Adam Majer [EMAIL PROTECTED]: rake Adeodato Simó [EMAIL PROTECTED]: amarok Adriaan Peeters [EMAIL PROTECTED]: sipcalc Adrian Bridgett [EMAIL PROTECTED]: xmove Al Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED]: libcoyotl, qprof Alastair McKinstry [EMAIL PROTECTED]: lcov Alberto Gonzalez Iniesta [EMAIL PROTECTED]: sing Alexandre Fayolle [EMAIL PROTECTED]: python-xml Alexandre Pineau [EMAIL PROTECTED]: ire Alexei Kaminski [EMAIL PROTECTED]: calcoo Andreas Rottmann [EMAIL PROTECTED]: python-crypto, zinf Andrew Lau [EMAIL PROTECTED]: openexr, tsclient Anthony Fok [EMAIL PROTECTED]: cjk-latex, freetype, tochnog Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho [EMAIL PROTECTED]: grep-dctrl Arnaud Vandyck [EMAIL PROTECTED]: argouml Artem Chuprina [EMAIL PROTECTED]: xxkb Arthur Korn [EMAIL PROTECTED]: devfsd, iacd Aurelien Jarno [EMAIL PROTECTED]: camstream, keybled, kid3, kwave, myphpmoney Baruch Even [EMAIL PROTECTED]: chktex Bas Zoetekouw [EMAIL PROTECTED]: bibcursed, freesci Bastian Kleineidam [EMAIL PROTECTED]: libpam-mount, linkchecker Bdale Garbee [EMAIL PROTECTED]: amanda Ben Burton [EMAIL PROTECTED]: kdbg, kdeedu Benjamin Drieu [EMAIL PROTECTED]: xbvl Benjamin Mako Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED]: mairix Bill Allombert [EMAIL PROTECTED]: flwm, gap-gdat Bradley Bell [EMAIL PROTECTED]: bakery-gnomeui2.0, bakery2.0, bakery2.3 Branden Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: twofish Brent A. Fulgham [EMAIL PROTECTED]: nana Brian Bassett [EMAIL PROTECTED]: blogtk Brian R Furry [EMAIL PROTECTED]: stars Brian Sutherland [EMAIL PROTECTED]: schoolbell Bruce Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED]: ax25-apps Bruno Rodrigues [EMAIL PROTECTED]: libapache-mod-security Cajus Pollmeier [EMAIL PROTECTED]: nsca Camm Maguire [EMAIL PROTECTED]: lam Celso González [EMAIL PROTECTED]: ap-utils Chad Walstrom [EMAIL PROTECTED]: cheetah Chip Salzenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED]: libnet-ftpserver-perl Chris Butler [EMAIL PROTECTED]: libcgicc Chris Halls [EMAIL PROTECTED]: ayttm Chris Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED]: reportbug Chris Waters [EMAIL PROTECTED]: tcllib Christian Bayle [EMAIL PROTECTED]: gatos Christian Bayle [EMAIL PROTECTED]: libjfreechart-java, libjfreereport-java Christian Kurz [EMAIL PROTECTED]: tinycdb Christophe Prud'homme [EMAIL PROTECTED]: arpack Clément Stenac [EMAIL PROTECTED]: spong Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: db1-compat, groff, libcgic Cosimo Alfarano [EMAIL PROTECTED]: torch3 Cédric Delfosse [EMAIL PROTECTED]: boa-constructor, drpython, tcpick Dafydd Harries [EMAIL PROTECTED]: alexandria Daigo Moriwaki [EMAIL PROTECTED]: tdiary Dan Korostelev [EMAIL PROTECTED]: rhythmbox-applet Daniel Baumann [EMAIL PROTECTED]: micro-inetd, thttpd Daniel Bonniot [EMAIL PROTECTED]: nice Daniel Gubser [EMAIL PROTECTED]: uptimed Daniel Kobras [EMAIL PROTECTED]: manpages-de, muse Daniel Schepler [EMAIL PROTECTED]: qtads David A. van Leeuwen [EMAIL PROTECTED]: tclex David Coe [EMAIL PROTECTED]: gpart David I. Lehn [EMAIL PROTECTED]: gst-editor, mpeg2dec David Martínez Moreno [EMAIL PROTECTED]: k3d David Moreno Garza [EMAIL PROTECTED]: gxmms David N. Welton [EMAIL PROTECTED]: tdom Davide Puricelli (evo) [EMAIL PROTECTED]: chicken, gnome-alsamixer, libnet-ldap-perl Debian Adduser Developers [EMAIL PROTECTED]: adduser Debian Berkeley DB Maintainers [EMAIL PROTECTED]: db2, db4.1, db4.2, db4.3 Debian Java Mailing List debian-java@lists.debian.org: java-common Debian Java Maintainers [EMAIL PROTECTED]: libcommons-dbcp-java, libcommons-lang-java, libcommons-modeler-java, libgef-java, libxerces2-java Debian Nagios Maintainer Group [EMAIL PROTECTED]: nagios Debian OCaml Maintainers debian-ocaml-maint@lists.debian.org: bibtex2html, cryptokit, hevea Debian Octave Group [EMAIL PROTECTED]: matwrap Debian OpenOffice Team debian-openoffice@lists.debian.org: dmake, neon0.23, openoffice.org, openoffice.org-sdk Debian Perl Group [EMAIL PROTECTED]: libalias-perl, soap-lite Debian QA Group [EMAIL PROTECTED]: blootbot, fdutils, ic35link, libapache-auth-ldap, middleman, sfio, zed Debian QEMU Team [EMAIL PROTECTED]: qemu Debian Qt/KDE Maintainers
Re: Bug#302138: incorrect Description line wrapping with bullet lists
On Wed, Mar 30, 2005 at 03:54:36AM -0600, Peter Samuelson wrote: [Peter Samuelson] I'd like to file a mass bug for these, but it's on the order of 583 binary packages in 430 source packages, so I obviously want to get some feedback first. Jeroen van Wolffelaar pointed out to me that 430 source packages is a bit much for a mass bug, especially if lintian/linda could flag this stuff automatically, which is probably the case. Lars Wirzenius also suggested that I name names so people will know if they're affected. So here are source packages grouped by maintainer. Data is from /var/lib/apt/lists/*_Packages on an i386 sid box. It seems like this list has a lot of false positives, take for example php-mail-mime: | Description: PHP PEAR module for creating and decoding MIME messages | Provides classes to deal with creation and manipulation of mime messages: | . | * mime.php: Create mime email, with html, attachments, embedded images | etc. | * mimePart.php: Advanced method of creating mime messages. | * mimeDecode.php - Decodes mime messages to a usable structure. | * xmail.dtd: An XML DTD to acompany the getXML() method of the decoding | class. | * xmail.xsl: An XSLT stylesheet to transform the output of the getXML() | method back to an email It's manually word-wrapped, because otherwise it'd overflow fixed-width terminal displays. That's the whole point of double-space indenting a part of the description. Ideally, all packaging tools would support some kind of very simple markup language to support enumerations in a sane way, but that's a long-term project. So, I object to this massfiling. --Jeroen -- Jeroen van Wolffelaar [EMAIL PROTECTED] (also for Jabber MSN; ICQ: 33944357) http://Jeroen.A-Eskwadraat.nl -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#302138: incorrect Description line wrapping with bullet lists
[Jeroen van Wolffelaar] It seems like this list has a lot of false positives, take for example php-mail-mime: | Description: PHP PEAR module for creating and decoding MIME messages | Provides classes to deal with creation and manipulation of mime messages: | . | * mime.php: Create mime email, with html, attachments, embedded images | etc. I still think the etc. should not be indented. Let the tools word-wrap it, rather than having the maintainer guess how wide everyone's terminal will be. But that is, perhaps, a point on which reasonable people can disagree - not least because my suggestion makes 'apt-cache show' a little bit less pretty. Omitting the check for forced word-wrapping in bullets cuts down the list of offenders drastically. The following are source packages that actually display _incorrectly_ in dselect / aptitude because bullet points incorrectly word-wrap back to the previous line. (I hand-checked this list for false positives, so it should be mostly fair.) Adriaan Peeters [EMAIL PROTECTED]: sipcalc Bruno Rodrigues [EMAIL PROTECTED]: libapache-mod-security Cajus Pollmeier [EMAIL PROTECTED]: nsca Christophe Prud'homme [EMAIL PROTECTED]: arpack Cosimo Alfarano [EMAIL PROTECTED]: torch3 Daniel Gubser [EMAIL PROTECTED]: uptimed David Moreno Garza [EMAIL PROTECTED]: gxmms Debian Berkeley DB Maintainers [EMAIL PROTECTED]: db4.1 Debian Nagios Maintainer Group [EMAIL PROTECTED]: nagios Debian Perl Group [EMAIL PROTECTED]: soap-lite Eduard Bloch [EMAIL PROTECTED]: pdfjam, ppscsi Free Ekanayaka [EMAIL PROTECTED]: mcp-plugins GOTO Masanori [EMAIL PROTECTED]: ttf-mikachan Jean-Michel Kelbert [EMAIL PROTECTED]: k3b, testdisk Joe Wreschnig [EMAIL PROTECTED]: pmp-common Joerg Jaspert [EMAIL PROTECTED]: lg-issue104, lg-issue105, lg-issue106, lg-issue107, lg-issue109 Joshua Kwan [EMAIL PROTECTED]: ircd-hybrid Matthias Urlichs [EMAIL PROTECTED]: libvideo-capture-v4l-perl Michael Schiansky [EMAIL PROTECTED]: mp3c Otavio Salvador [EMAIL PROTECTED]: graveman Philipp Meier [EMAIL PROTECTED]: jetty Robert Millan [EMAIL PROTECTED]: ltsp-utils Ross Peachey [EMAIL PROTECTED]: libgetopt-declare-perl Steinar H. Gunderson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: libhttp-dav-perl Stephan Helma [EMAIL PROTECTED]: ude Stephen Quinney [EMAIL PROTECTED]: libclass-dbi-pager-perl Turbo Fredriksson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: libroxen-adbanner signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#302138: incorrect Description line wrapping with bullet lists
On Wed, Mar 30, 2005 at 04:42:24AM -0600, Peter Samuelson wrote: Omitting the check for forced word-wrapping in bullets cuts down the list of offenders drastically. The following are source packages that actually display _incorrectly_ in dselect / aptitude because bullet points incorrectly word-wrap back to the previous line. (I hand-checked this list for false positives, so it should be mostly fair.) Filing bugs for those 30-something packages sounds reasonable to me, as they cause wrong display in almost all situations. --Jeroen -- Jeroen van Wolffelaar [EMAIL PROTECTED] (also for Jabber MSN; ICQ: 33944357) http://Jeroen.A-Eskwadraat.nl
Re: Bug#302138: incorrect Description line wrapping with bullet lists
On Wednesday 30 March 2005 05:19 am, Jeroen van Wolffelaar wrote: Ideally, all packaging tools would support some kind of very simple markup language to support enumerations in a sane way, but that's a long-term project. There's room in the description standard for future extensions: quoting Policy, Those containing a space, a full stop and some more characters. These are for future expansion. Do not use them. We can also extend the description format in backwards-compatible ways. So, while a proper markup language would be nice, that doesn't preclude fixing the bullet problem, albeit in a slightly hacky way, NOW. What about this: == A line beginning with two or more spaces, followed by a bullet character and a space, is considered to be an element of a bulleted list. Every succeeding line that begins with N+1 or more spaces, where N is the number of spaces preceding the bullet, is considered to be part of the same bulleted list, and is processed as if N+1 spaces had been stripped from its left margin, with the exception that if the N+2nd character is not a space, the line is formatted as if a leading space were present. (see below) Bullet characters are (maybe) -, +, *, and o; the frontend may render them literally or modify their appearence as it deems appropriate. NOTE: it might be a good idea to exclude o; I doubt many packages use o as a word by itself at the beginning of a literally-formatted line, but it might be a word in some foreign language, which would cause problems once we have translated descriptions. Unfortunately, this would make the format less backwards-compatible. == This means that the current best practice for bulleted lists; eg, Description: something with a bulleted list This is a package. It has some features: * A feature. * Another feature. * A feature I felt like continuing onto the next line for some reason * For backwards compatibility, some variation in indentation is OK. will be displayed as expected in all current frontends, while future frontends will treat each of the last two items as a paragraph and word-wrap it accordingly. Lists-within-lists would work like this: Description: something with two bulleted lists This is a package. It has lots of features: * A feature. * Another feature. * A really complicated feature with subfeatures: + Subfeature 1 + Subfeature 2 + Subfeatures can also continue to the next line. . We can also have paragraph separators. * Another feature. The only non-sensibly-rendering thing in legacy frontends would be the literal full-stop, which could be avoided by discouraging the use of multiple-paragraph list items (and really, descriptions shouldn't be that complicated anyway...IMO). Things to note: - Older frontends will render descriptions in this format without any difficulty. - Newer frontends will either automagically detect bulleted lists in older descriptions (all the proper lists that I found in a very small sample would work exactly as expected) or display them literally (the current situation). The worst case would be where the start of a list is literal and its continuation is word-wrapped, but this would come out no worse than the current situation: * A feature * Some other feature but I want you to word-wrap the continuation. All-in-all, I think that this is a nice low-cost way of getting proper bullet support into the frontends. Comments? Daniel -- /--- Daniel Burrows [EMAIL PROTECTED] --\ | You keep on using that word. I do not think | |it means what you think it means. | | -- The Princess Bride | \ The Turtle Moves! -- http://www.lspace.org ---/ pgp0DWWR190yA.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Bug#302138: incorrect Description line wrapping with bullet lists
On Wednesday 30 March 2005 09:56 am, Daniel Burrows wrote: A line beginning with two or more spaces, followed by a bullet character and a space, is considered to be an element of a bulleted list. Every succeeding line that begins with N+1 or more spaces, where N is the number of spaces preceding the bullet, is considered to be part of the same bulleted list, and is processed as if N+1 spaces had been stripped from its left margin, with the exception that if the N+2nd character is not a space, the line is formatted as if a leading space were present. (see below) I didn't mention this here, but of course the frontend is expected to pay attention to the quantity of indentation, preserve leading indentation of the bullet, and use this information to figure out sub-list relationships. Daniel -- /--- Daniel Burrows [EMAIL PROTECTED] --\ | Hi, I'm a .signature virus! | | Copy me into your .signature to help me spread! | \-- Listener-supported public radio -- NPR -- http://www.npr.org ---/ pgpiTS7knHy0r.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Bug#302138: incorrect Description line wrapping with bullet lists
On Wed, Mar 30, 2005 at 09:56:36AM -0500, Daniel Burrows wrote: Bullet characters are (maybe) -, +, *, and o; the frontend may render them literally or modify their appearence as it deems appropriate. NOTE: it might be a good idea to exclude o; I doubt many packages use o as a word by itself at the beginning of a literally-formatted line, but it might be a word in some foreign language, I know of at least two such languages. Don't include 'o'. -- .''`. ** Debian GNU/Linux ** | Andrew Suffield : :' : http://www.debian.org/ | `. `' | `- -- | signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#302138: incorrect Description line wrapping with bullet lists
On Wednesday 30 March 2005 11:44 am, Andrew Suffield wrote: I know of at least two such languages. Don't include 'o'. Ok, will do. Or, um, not do. Daniel -- /--- Daniel Burrows [EMAIL PROTECTED] --\ |Human beings were created by water to transport it uphill. | \- A duck! -- http://www.python.org / pgp2ST4C7IpIO.pgp Description: PGP signature
