Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
On Sat, Apr 29, 2006 at 05:26:38PM +0300, Daniel Stone wrote: > On Sat, Apr 29, 2006 at 04:13:10PM +0200, Sven Luther wrote: > > So, with all that said, do you still believe it is normal that a perfectly > > running daily build was rejected in maybe a few minutes/hours after i sent > > that email, while i had offered to continue running it until a proper > > replacement was found, and some unstable solution has been used ever since, > > which doesn't even include to this day the miboot support ? > > If you're going to attempt to drag other people into your petty personal > tiffs, you might as well at least try to rope in people who are > sympathetic to your cause. Please tell me then, what interest is your post to the issue at hand ? Or does this mean, that whatever i say, you would still be against me, because you are 'unsympathetic to my cause' ? I also don't see you aknowledging the correction on the misleading information you mentioned in your first post. Friendly, Sven Luther -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
On Sat, Apr 29, 2006 at 04:13:10PM +0200, Sven Luther wrote: > So, with all that said, do you still believe it is normal that a perfectly > running daily build was rejected in maybe a few minutes/hours after i sent > that email, while i had offered to continue running it until a proper > replacement was found, and some unstable solution has been used ever since, > which doesn't even include to this day the miboot support ? If you're going to attempt to drag other people into your petty personal tiffs, you might as well at least try to rope in people who are sympathetic to your cause. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
On Fri, Apr 28, 2006 at 03:58:17AM +0300, Daniel Stone wrote: > On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 08:28:11PM +0200, Sven Luther wrote: > > Notice also that both you and Colin Watson, where donated pegasos machines, > > (and guess who arranged that), so the unavailability of a decent build > > machine > > is no excuse. > > I can't speak for the other guys, but I have a Pegasos machine (sitting > under my desk at the moment, actually), sent to me by yourself. You > offered it to me when I told you that I had no powerpc machines, and > thus couldn't test X with PowerPC. I made it very, very clear to you > that I could not guarantee that the machine would ever get turned on, > let alone used productively. Repeatedly. You said that was fine. Indeed. > However, you then got upset when Pegasos support lapsed, and ripped into > me for not doing enough to fix it, given that you sent me an ODW. So, I Notice that first, this was an ubuntu matter, and i got upset, not because you didn't get the pegasos/X support fixed in a timely way, but because my patches sent to the ubuntu BTS where coldly received, and even ignored until i pushed some. > can't help but think, maybe this is another case where people explicitly > told you that they couldn't ensure the machine was used productively, > but you still got upset when it wasn't? Joey Hess received a machine in order to do daily d-i powerpc tests. This was the exact wording, and it was an additional machine outside of the first donation. I know since then that his machine broke, for whatever reason, some time ago, but he never informed me of this (we would have replaced it), and i only knew about this in Helsinki, and if he would have told me about this a week before, i would have swapped it out. The 4 machines i had in Heslinki for debconf admin purpose where all donated to to debian or skolelinux purpose, except the one where i burned the power supply, and supposedly the debconf assurance would have covered. So, with all that said, do you still believe it is normal that a perfectly running daily build was rejected in maybe a few minutes/hours after i sent that email, while i had offered to continue running it until a proper replacement was found, and some unstable solution has been used ever since, which doesn't even include to this day the miboot support ? Friendly, Sven Luther -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 08:28:11PM +0200, Sven Luther wrote: > Notice also that both you and Colin Watson, where donated pegasos machines, > (and guess who arranged that), so the unavailability of a decent build machine > is no excuse. I can't speak for the other guys, but I have a Pegasos machine (sitting under my desk at the moment, actually), sent to me by yourself. You offered it to me when I told you that I had no powerpc machines, and thus couldn't test X with PowerPC. I made it very, very clear to you that I could not guarantee that the machine would ever get turned on, let alone used productively. Repeatedly. You said that was fine. However, you then got upset when Pegasos support lapsed, and ripped into me for not doing enough to fix it, given that you sent me an ODW. So, I can't help but think, maybe this is another case where people explicitly told you that they couldn't ensure the machine was used productively, but you still got upset when it wasn't? signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
On Fri, Apr 28, 2006 at 03:21:12PM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote: > On Fri, Apr 28, 2006 at 12:40:48AM +0200, Sven Luther wrote: > > On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 03:34:30PM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote: > > > On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 10:46:24PM +0200, Sven Luther wrote: > > > > The maintainer is held responsible (and frans and joeyh have not > > > > stepped down > > > > from reminding me of this in the past) of the build failure, while a > > > > contributor is free commit fixes, without necessarily being the one to > > > > blame > > > > for every problem of the port. > > > > And whereas when the alpha daily builds are broken and require build env > > > updates to get them working again I simply fix them at my earliest > > > opportunity, you invariably used this as an excuse to accuse the rest of > > > the > > > I don't remember it such, i remember frans accusing me of negligence and > > misconduct because i did give a (maybe a bit uninformed) advice to a powerpc > > user. > > You had quite strong words for Frans, accusing him (and other d-i folk) of > breaking your daily builds. They didn't do anything of the sort; *I* broke > the daily builds, because there was a libnewt soname bump and udebs needed > to be rebuilt against the new soname, which broke the daily builds until > libnewt0.52 was installed in the build env because this was before we had > support for udeb shlibs. That didn't stop you from accusing Frans of first > breaking the build and then picking on you. I didn't accuse Frans, i did accuse the d-i folk in general. English has this poor feature of not distinguishing between the polite you, the singular you and the plural you, maybe we should switch to a more advanced language instead :) Now, putting things in context, some user complained about brokeness on debian-powerpc. I know that appart from me, nobody is reading debian-powerpc from the d-i team, so i told Shaymal that he should post on debian-boot instead, or better file a bug report directly, since i was hardly available to do real work, and to do the bridge between debian-powerpc and d-i at that time. I was away in el salvador at the time, my mother had just passed a severe respipratory crisis a few hours before, and i had gone to read debian-powerpc in order to change my mind a bit, and being me, i could not help trying to be helpful to users, even though i didn't really take the time to investigate fully, and may have made a mistake, but given my situation, you have to admit that this is understandable, no ? As a result, i got an immediate response from Frans, not only telling me i was wrong, and that the i failed miserably to keep the daily builds going, but also adding that little bashing paragraph, the kind that frans has been giving to me with various degrees of subtletly since over 8 month now or so, and which yourself agreed yesterday was not correct. Given this, two things happened. I wrote Frans a personal mail asking him for comprehension, and kind of explaining my personal situation, which i don't really feel he has acted upon, and second i was pretty much feedup that even in the situation i found myself, there was nobody who would take care of either fixing this issue, or at least inform the users that it was a known problem, that i was currently unavailable for severe personal reasons, and it would be fixed soon. Seeing things in that light, and given of what Frans did know at that time, is there still any doubt left that the removal of my commit access was nothing more that an unfeeling attempt to get ride of me, and that the resignation letter is nothing but an excuse ? I was also told a bit before this events (on irc and i saddly don't kep logs) that some people didn't really want (after the expulsion event) for me to make the effort to come back to debian, and would be happy to be ride of me. I wasn't told who those people are, but given these events, one can guess. Now, the critic i have is of another kind, and one i have done repeteadly in the past, and for which the d-i team had marked me as someone to bash at will. The problem here is very speaking, As you say, something happened, so the build broke. The build breaking is listed on joeyh's web page, but depending on folk, browsing a web page daily is a poor substitute for email notification, and i guess we all agree on this, or we would be using bugzilla over our BTS :). So, it broke, some folk noticed this, and fixed their daily builds (joeyh or whoever maintains the x86 daily build among them), but nobody informed the other daily build maintainers, so each one would have to discover the issue alone, investigate the problem and do the fix. This i believe is not efficient, and i said so, and something which is mirrored in the way the kernel .udebs are handled, and i have said so in the past, tried to start a discussion to get more efficiency into this, and proposed some possible solutions. At the same time, Joey was repeteadly blaming the lazy porters for
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
On Fri, Apr 28, 2006 at 12:40:48AM +0200, Sven Luther wrote: > On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 03:34:30PM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote: > > On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 10:46:24PM +0200, Sven Luther wrote: > > > The maintainer is held responsible (and frans and joeyh have not stepped > > > down > > > from reminding me of this in the past) of the build failure, while a > > > contributor is free commit fixes, without necessarily being the one to > > > blame > > > for every problem of the port. > > And whereas when the alpha daily builds are broken and require build env > > updates to get them working again I simply fix them at my earliest > > opportunity, you invariably used this as an excuse to accuse the rest of the > I don't remember it such, i remember frans accusing me of negligence and > misconduct because i did give a (maybe a bit uninformed) advice to a powerpc > user. You had quite strong words for Frans, accusing him (and other d-i folk) of breaking your daily builds. They didn't do anything of the sort; *I* broke the daily builds, because there was a libnewt soname bump and udebs needed to be rebuilt against the new soname, which broke the daily builds until libnewt0.52 was installed in the build env because this was before we had support for udeb shlibs. That didn't stop you from accusing Frans of first breaking the build and then picking on you. > > It's unfortunate that even your resignation as d-i porter doesn't spare the > > rest of the d-i team from having their time wasted by threads like this. > Oh, thanks. so you also believe that the removal of my d-i commit rights was > warranted. As discussed on IRC, yes, I believe the d-i repo admins have the authority to remove the d-i commit rights of committers who have resigned, or committers that they believe are abusive, or committers who have idled out, and probably the authority to remove commit rights for other reasons I'm not thinking of right now. > Could you please explain this in the open, and not in this cabal like > fasion ? > (22:36:45)< vorlon> fjp: can you speak to why svenl's commit access to d-i was > revoked? I vaguely remember a clean-up of unused d-i accounts, but I thought > that only covered accounts that had been unused for some time. > (22:37:07)< fjp> vorlon: I'd prefer /msg No, it's up to fjp to decide if he wants to say more than he already has; though I think at the time I made that comment on IRC, he had already posted a reply to this thread, which simply had not reached my inbox yet. -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
When to post and when not to post (was Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...)
On Fri, Apr 28, 2006 at 01:00:16AM +0200, Sven Luther wrote: > Seriously, in what did this mail help ? Do you feel better now ? Was it in any > way constructive ? In what do you believe you are better than me over this ? Apply these same two lines to all of *your* posts to this thread (in the past and in future posts). Maybe you'll be (somehow) enlightened. Friendly, Javier PD: As for my own answers: No. No. Yes. In nothing, really. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 10:46:24PM +0200, Sven Luther wrote: > Well, it is what i see. There is nothing to clarify on this > point. They removed me to get ride of me, and despite Colin's help, > they don't really have someone to make the real work. So Colin's help isn't real, or what? Please don't get me wrong: I definitely appreciate the outstanding entertainment value of this thread ... But please make sure *everyone* can laugh ... Regards Wolfgang -- Wolfgang Pfeiffer: /ICQ: 286585973/ + + + /AIM: crashinglinux/ http://profiles.yahoo.com/wolfgangpfeiffer Key ID: E3037113 http://keyserver.mine.nu/pks/lookup?search=0xE3037113&fingerprint=on -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
This one time, at band camp, Jason D. Clinton said: > On Thursday 27 April 2006 17:49, Stephen Gran wrote: > > Nobody loves me, everybody hates me, I think I'll just eat worms. > > > > Lighten up, dude. Better yet, find professional help. > > From the outside it seems to me that his complaints are with merit. And this > is a meritocracy; not a democracy. Oh, I think his complaints about the status of powerpc may or may not have merit, but you'll notice that's not what I'm addressing. Sven has, you might have noticed, a markedly hyperbolic and vitriolic method of 'communicating' that has seems to have the effect of making other people not want to work with him. He then blames the world for a conspiracy against him. This was the only thing I was commenting on, in my silly way. Take care, -- - | ,''`.Stephen Gran | | : :' :[EMAIL PROTECTED] | | `. `'Debian user, admin, and developer | |`- http://www.debian.org | - signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 11:49:08PM +0100, Stephen Gran wrote: > This one time, at band camp, Sven Luther said: > > you kicked me out [...] > > just to get ride of me [...] > > it was more important to get ride of sven [...] > > that you kicked the powerpc maintainer out of the project [...] > > uther contempt for all the work i did do in the past for this [...] > > you expulsed me [...] > > and like always just do on more round of sven-bashing [...] > > Nobody loves me, everybody hates me, I think I'll just eat worms. > > Lighten up, dude. Better yet, find professional help. Thanks all the same for the 8 year of time i spent on the debian project, and the innumberable hours i spent helping out users. Seriously, in what did this mail help ? Do you feel better now ? Was it in any way constructive ? In what do you believe you are better than me over this ? Friendly, Sven Luther -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
On Thursday 27 April 2006 17:49, Stephen Gran wrote: > Nobody loves me, everybody hates me, I think I'll just eat worms. > > Lighten up, dude. Better yet, find professional help. From the outside it seems to me that his complaints are with merit. And this is a meritocracy; not a democracy. pgpU3Qq0w9jdA.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
On Fri, Apr 28, 2006 at 12:44:13AM +0200, Wolfgang Pfeiffer wrote: > On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 10:46:24PM +0200, Sven Luther wrote: > > > Well, it is what i see. There is nothing to clarify on this > > point. They removed me to get ride of me, and despite Colin's help, > > they don't really have someone to make the real work. > > So Colin's help isn't real, or what? Sure it is, if it confirms itself that he has enough time to fullfill it. The reality is that the powerpc d-i port was broken since *4 WEEKS*, and nobody noticed, and nobody informed the powerpc users who where complaining and wondering. > Please don't get me wrong: I definitely appreciate the outstanding > entertainment value of this thread ... But please make sure *everyone* > can laugh ... At my depends, right ? And when i am gone, who will be the next scape-goat ? Friendly, Sven Luther -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
This one time, at band camp, Sven Luther said: > you kicked me out [...] > just to get ride of me [...] > it was more important to get ride of sven [...] > that you kicked the powerpc maintainer out of the project [...] > uther contempt for all the work i did do in the past for this [...] > you expulsed me [...] > and like always just do on more round of sven-bashing [...] Nobody loves me, everybody hates me, I think I'll just eat worms. Lighten up, dude. Better yet, find professional help. -- - | ,''`.Stephen Gran | | : :' :[EMAIL PROTECTED] | | `. `'Debian user, admin, and developer | |`- http://www.debian.org | - signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 03:34:30PM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote: > On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 10:46:24PM +0200, Sven Luther wrote: > > The maintainer is held responsible (and frans and joeyh have not stepped > > down > > from reminding me of this in the past) of the build failure, while a > > contributor is free commit fixes, without necessarily being the one to blame > > for every problem of the port. > > And whereas when the alpha daily builds are broken and require build env > updates to get them working again I simply fix them at my earliest > opportunity, you invariably used this as an excuse to accuse the rest of the I don't remember it such, i remember frans accusing me of negligence and misconduct because i did give a (maybe a bit uninformed) advice to a powerpc user. > d-i team of misconduct or negligence. Your technical skills and committment > to powerpc are valuable traits, but the only thing you bring to the table > that's irreplaceable is your penchant for vitriol, and I'm quite sure > everyone involved would be happy to be rid of that. I am most assuredly not the only one in debian with this trait, who will you get ride of next ? > It's unfortunate that even your resignation as d-i porter doesn't spare the > rest of the d-i team from having their time wasted by threads like this. Oh, thanks. so you also believe that the removal of my d-i commit rights was warranted. Could you please explain this in the open, and not in this cabal like fasion ? (22:36:45)< vorlon> fjp: can you speak to why svenl's commit access to d-i was revoked? I vaguely remember a clean-up of unused d-i accounts, but I thought that only covered accounts that had been unused for some time. (22:37:07)< fjp> vorlon: I'd prefer /msg So, why was i not informed of that fact ? And why is the powerpc port broken since 4 weeks without nobody noticing ? Friendly, Sven Luther -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 10:46:24PM +0200, Sven Luther wrote: > The maintainer is held responsible (and frans and joeyh have not stepped down > from reminding me of this in the past) of the build failure, while a > contributor is free commit fixes, without necessarily being the one to blame > for every problem of the port. And whereas when the alpha daily builds are broken and require build env updates to get them working again I simply fix them at my earliest opportunity, you invariably used this as an excuse to accuse the rest of the d-i team of misconduct or negligence. Your technical skills and committment to powerpc are valuable traits, but the only thing you bring to the table that's irreplaceable is your penchant for vitriol, and I'm quite sure everyone involved would be happy to be rid of that. It's unfortunate that even your resignation as d-i porter doesn't spare the rest of the d-i team from having their time wasted by threads like this. -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
On Thursday 27 April 2006 08:19, Mike Hommey wrote: > When will you learn you don't have to reply to every single message in a > thread ? Frank's and my message were the exact same. Why do you feel you > have to answer twice to the same thing ? > > And please stop this "Friendly" signature, it's pathetic and actually > sounds stupid. Please, nothing about your email was constructive. This flamewar needs level heads; not people throwing flames on the fire. pgpS1jfvX6ppl.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 09:47:33PM +0200, Andreas Barth wrote: > * Sven Luther ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [060427 17:03]: > > On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 04:52:09PM +0200, Andreas Barth wrote: > > > * Sven Luther ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [060427 15:05]: > > > > Andreas, do you have an explanation of why d-i commit access was taken > > > > from > > > > me, and why i find out only now as i was going to fix the issue ? > > > > > > http://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2006/03/msg01075.html sounds like > > > you stepped back, and > > > http://lists.debian.org/debian-powerpc/2006/03/msg00490.html confirms > > > that. > > > > I stepped back from d-i powerpc port maintainer, not as d-i contributor. > > I don't call myself authoritative what your other contributions to d-i The maintainer is held responsible (and frans and joeyh have not stepped down from reminding me of this in the past) of the build failure, while a contributor is free commit fixes, without necessarily being the one to blame for every problem of the port. > include. It might be a good idea to clarify your status within the d-i > team first, instead of telling all people that debian has stopped ppc > support (which is just wrong, and is definitly neither the intention of > the d-i team nor the release team). Well, it is what i see. There is nothing to clarify on this point. They removed me to get ride of me, and despite Colin's help, they don't really have someone to make the real work. This is actually the real problem of the d-i team, they lack manpower to properly care about d-i as it deserves, and this makes them irritable. > > Also, i don't believe there is any justification for taking away svn commit > > access except when there was a clear misuse of it being made. > > Actually, I think revoking svn commit access from people who stopped to > work on d-i (or any project, that is not d-i specific) is ok. E.g. we > also "revoke" upload privileges of people who don't do Debian work > anymore. If that was a misunderstanding - please try to clarify it in > private first (without the noise that this thread makes). After having read the replies of both Joeyh and fjp, i don't believe it was a misunderstanding, but a deliberate decision of the d-i team. If you read something else out of it, i would be very interested in you interpretation of it. Friendly, Sven Luther -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
* Joey Hess ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [060427 18:38]: > c) The mipsel builds had been down nearly as long. And that machine >seems to be dead. Argh. Would you need access to another mipsel machine? Cheers, Andi -- http://home.arcor.de/andreas-barth/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
* Olaf van der Spek ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [060427 17:54]: > On 4/27/06, Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 11:43:02AM -0400, Toni L. Harbaugh-Blackford > > [Contr] wrote: > > > Just what are the rules for someone to have commit access? > > > > None, it is the full decision of the project admin, and i believe what > > happened here is that one such project admin did let some petty personal > > considerations overstep his responsabilities. > > Why don't you ask the admins instead of continuing based on beliefs? Hey, that would be violating the rules of a flame fest. :) Cheers, Andi -- http://home.arcor.de/andreas-barth/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
* Sven Luther ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [060427 17:03]: > On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 04:52:09PM +0200, Andreas Barth wrote: > > * Sven Luther ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [060427 15:05]: > > > Andreas, do you have an explanation of why d-i commit access was taken > > > from > > > me, and why i find out only now as i was going to fix the issue ? > > > > http://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2006/03/msg01075.html sounds like > > you stepped back, and > > http://lists.debian.org/debian-powerpc/2006/03/msg00490.html confirms > > that. > > I stepped back from d-i powerpc port maintainer, not as d-i contributor. I don't call myself authoritative what your other contributions to d-i include. It might be a good idea to clarify your status within the d-i team first, instead of telling all people that debian has stopped ppc support (which is just wrong, and is definitly neither the intention of the d-i team nor the release team). > Also, i don't believe there is any justification for taking away svn commit > access except when there was a clear misuse of it being made. Actually, I think revoking svn commit access from people who stopped to work on d-i (or any project, that is not d-i specific) is ok. E.g. we also "revoke" upload privileges of people who don't do Debian work anymore. If that was a misunderstanding - please try to clarify it in private first (without the noise that this thread makes). Cheers, Andi -- http://home.arcor.de/andreas-barth/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 12:36:56PM -0400, Joey Hess wrote: > Toni L. Harbaugh-Blackford [Contr] wrote: > > I don't think you understand. There was not a peep on the list about > > anything being up with the daily image until Sven explicitely stated it. > > All of us who read http://people.debian.org/~joeyh/d-i/build-logs.html > on a daily basis knew that the powerpc builds had not updated in a Ah, yeah, and when where you going to fix this ? And when where you going to inform the powerpc users ? > while, but given that > > a) They're marked as "currently on a laptop so not cronned, should be >moved soon" That is no excuse, since you kicked me out, and where very quick to throw away the buildd i maintained, just to get ride of me, without having proper replacement. Notice also that both you and Colin Watson, where donated pegasos machines, (and guess who arranged that), so the unavailability of a decent build machine is no excuse. At worse you could have used my buildd until a decent solution was found, but no, it was more important to get ride of sven, than to care for the powerpc users. > b) The mips builds had been down longer until recently. > c) The mipsel builds had been down nearly as long. And that machine >seems to be dead. Argh. You didn't kick the mips/mipsel maintainers out of the d-i team though, so your responsability is not engaged. > d) The i386 floppy builds had been broken for longer until recently. > e) The amd64 builds have been down just as long and still are. > f) The arm CD builds have been broken for quite a while. Same here. > It wasn't very clear, to me at least, that anything was exceptionally > wrong with the powerpc builds. There is something exceptionally wrong, and this is the unprecedented fact that you kicked the powerpc maintainer out of the project, with uther contempt for all the work i did do in the past for this, promised you had found a replacement, and that the port would be well taken care off, and failed in this. > > I would have expected the maintainer or others privy to the situation > > to have said something earlier, along the lines of: > > > > "Hey folks, we know the daily image is busted and we are > >working on it. We'll let you know when it's fixed so > >don't bug us". > > We have an automated page to track the status of the builds so that we > don't have to waste everyone's time doing that on a continual basis. Yeah, but you are to chicken to take the next logical step, namely to have a mailing list report scheme or something to make people aware of this who don't necessarily have time to daily look at the build log web page. But then, i suppose you prefer bugzilla over our BTS too. This is just a bunch of excuses, you expulsed me, and then the build failed, and it was gone almost 4 weeks without being fixed. You are fully responsible for this failure, and should assume your responsability. But then i know already that you are not going to assume it, and like always just do on more round of sven-bashing, and hope everything will be fine. Sven Luther -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 07:10:08PM +0200, Sven Luther wrote: > On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 06:46:11PM +0200, Frans Pop wrote: > > (dropping the ridiculous CC list, AFAICT everybody is subscribed) > > > > On Thursday 27 April 2006 17:47, Sven Luther wrote: > > > None, it is the full decision of the project admin, and i believe what > > > happened here is that one such project admin did let some petty > > > personal considerations overstep his responsabilities. > > > > Yep, and the "admin" feels completely justified by this ridiculous > > escalation of a minor issue [0]. > > > > The commit access was revoked based on the fact Sven resigned but that > > decision was influenced by the circumstances in which that happened. Not > > only I, but several members of the d-i team, have long had issues working > > with Sven and basically we decided enough was enough. > > Then live up to your responsability and don't let the powerpc port break > again, because i promise you i will be watching and remembering the world of > your failure if that happens. Right - so rather than being useful, and submitting patches, what you're going to do is whine on the list about it and make a fool of yourself, whilst crying wolf anytime that something inane goes wrong? Coo, you're *good* and a valuable asset to the community. > This is the price you pay for kicking people out, after doing your best for > hurting them in the first place. Now who's having petty problems with people? -- Brett Parker -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 06:46:11PM +0200, Frans Pop wrote: > (dropping the ridiculous CC list, AFAICT everybody is subscribed) > > On Thursday 27 April 2006 17:47, Sven Luther wrote: > > None, it is the full decision of the project admin, and i believe what > > happened here is that one such project admin did let some petty > > personal considerations overstep his responsabilities. > > Yep, and the "admin" feels completely justified by this ridiculous > escalation of a minor issue [0]. > > The commit access was revoked based on the fact Sven resigned but that > decision was influenced by the circumstances in which that happened. Not > only I, but several members of the d-i team, have long had issues working > with Sven and basically we decided enough was enough. Then live up to your responsability and don't let the powerpc port break again, because i promise you i will be watching and remembering the world of your failure if that happens. This is the price you pay for kicking people out, after doing your best for hurting them in the first place. Sven Luther -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
(dropping the ridiculous CC list, AFAICT everybody is subscribed) On Thursday 27 April 2006 17:47, Sven Luther wrote: > None, it is the full decision of the project admin, and i believe what > happened here is that one such project admin did let some petty > personal considerations overstep his responsabilities. Yep, and the "admin" feels completely justified by this ridiculous escalation of a minor issue [0]. The commit access was revoked based on the fact Sven resigned but that decision was influenced by the circumstances in which that happened. Not only I, but several members of the d-i team, have long had issues working with Sven and basically we decided enough was enough. On Thursday 27 April 2006 17:43, Toni L. Harbaugh-Blackford [Contr] wrote: > So only maintainers have d-i commit access? This would seem to put > a lot of extra work on the maintainer. > > Just what are the rules for someone to have commit access? No, anybody, both Debian Developers and non-Developers can get commit access to the d-i SVN repository (actually there are 140 people with access in total of whom about 65% are non-DDs, a lot of them translators), and in general we are quite quick to grant access and very slow to revoke it. We are still [1] very interested in welcoming other powerpc people to help with support for powerpc in d-i. We _do_ need porter help to be able to continue support for an architecture, especially one as complex as powerpc (with several port-specific subarches, bootloaders and filesystems, non-free issues). Without your (powerpc community, not Sven) help support for subarches like apus, prep and chrp may loose their support in d-i. The issues that are listed in [2] are still there (except for the missing tg3 driver) and we'd dearly like to see those worked on. Cheers, Frans Pop P.S. This is the only mail I'm going to waste on this issue. P.P.S. Note that the daily builds that Sven is still running should not be used. Instead, please use the builds lined from [3]. P.P.P.S. Just for the record: I did _not_ support the expulsion request that was started a while back against Sven and have said so publically, although I very much did and do understand the reasons behind it. [0] Note: we are only talking about daily and weekly _development_ builds here, not about Sarge CDs or even Etch Beta2 CDs. Installing powerpc is still very much possible. [1] http://lists.debian.org/debian-powerpc/2006/03/msg00490.html [2] http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/errata [3] http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/ pgpXjWWKmqBIs.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
Toni L. Harbaugh-Blackford [Contr] wrote: > I don't think you understand. There was not a peep on the list about > anything being up with the daily image until Sven explicitely stated it. All of us who read http://people.debian.org/~joeyh/d-i/build-logs.html on a daily basis knew that the powerpc builds had not updated in a while, but given that a) They're marked as "currently on a laptop so not cronned, should be moved soon" b) The mips builds had been down longer until recently. c) The mipsel builds had been down nearly as long. And that machine seems to be dead. Argh. d) The i386 floppy builds had been broken for longer until recently. e) The amd64 builds have been down just as long and still are. f) The arm CD builds have been broken for quite a while. It wasn't very clear, to me at least, that anything was exceptionally wrong with the powerpc builds. > I would have expected the maintainer or others privy to the situation > to have said something earlier, along the lines of: > > "Hey folks, we know the daily image is busted and we are >working on it. We'll let you know when it's fixed so >don't bug us". We have an automated page to track the status of the builds so that we don't have to waste everyone's time doing that on a continual basis. -- see shy jo signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 11:43:02AM -0400, Toni L. Harbaugh-Blackford [Contr] wrote: > On Thu, 27 Apr 2006, Rene Engelhard wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I stepped back from d-i powerpc port maintainer, not as d-i > contributor. > > > > > > > > > > So there apparently was a misunderstanding. > > [...] > > > who was kicked out you mean ? > > ^^ > > [...] > > > > Please decide. > > > > Regards, > > > > Rene > > So only maintainers have d-i commit access? No, people who are part of the d-i team have commit access. When Sven stepped down as the powerpc maintainer, the d-i project admins decided that commit access is no longer needed for him, assuming he did not need commit access for the core parts, but could just send patches members of the team would apply. This looks quite reasonable to me and the project admins are totally fine to do this. This is just an educated guess of course. > Just what are the rules for someone to have commit access? This question is off topic for debian-devel (and probably debian-powerpc as well). Michael -- "I'm glad that we're compatible, mature and grown, 'Cause this is not something U can do alone" -- Prince, "Incense and Candles" -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
On Thu, 27 Apr 2006, Rene Engelhard wrote: > > > > > > > > I stepped back from d-i powerpc port maintainer, not as d-i contributor. > > > > > > > So there apparently was a misunderstanding. > [...] > > who was kicked out you mean ? > ^^ > [...] > > Please decide. > > Regards, > > Rene So only maintainers have d-i commit access? This would seem to put a lot of extra work on the maintainer. Just what are the rules for someone to have commit access? Regards, Toni --- Toni Harbaugh-Blackford [EMAIL PROTECTED] System Administrator Advanced Biomedical Computing Center (ABCC) National Cancer Institute Contractor - SAIC/Frederick -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
On 4/27/06, Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 11:43:02AM -0400, Toni L. Harbaugh-Blackford [Contr] > wrote: > > Just what are the rules for someone to have commit access? > > None, it is the full decision of the project admin, and i believe what > happened here is that one such project admin did let some petty personal > considerations overstep his responsabilities. Why don't you ask the admins instead of continuing based on beliefs?
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 11:43:02AM -0400, Toni L. Harbaugh-Blackford [Contr] wrote: > Just what are the rules for someone to have commit access? None, it is the full decision of the project admin, and i believe what happened here is that one such project admin did let some petty personal considerations overstep his responsabilities. Friendly, Sven Luther -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 05:32:42PM +0200, Rene Engelhard wrote: > Sven Luther wrote: > > On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 05:10:17PM +0200, Rene Engelhard wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > Sven Luther wrote: > > > > On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 04:52:09PM +0200, Andreas Barth wrote: > > > > > * Sven Luther ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [060427 15:05]: > > > > > > Andreas, do you have an explanation of why d-i commit access was > > > > > > taken from > > > > > > me, and why i find out only now as i was going to fix the issue ? > > > > > > > > > > http://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2006/03/msg01075.html sounds like > > > > > you stepped back, and > > > > > http://lists.debian.org/debian-powerpc/2006/03/msg00490.html confirms > > > > > that. > > > > > > > > I stepped back from d-i powerpc port maintainer, not as d-i contributor. > > > > > > > So there apparently was a misunderstanding. > [...] > > who was kicked out you mean ? > ^^ > [...] > > Please decide. I was kicked out. If you reread the message, i told that i not interested in continuing being the powerpc porter, just so franz could blame me for every time, even if i tried to help as best i could as i did in the parent post to those you quoted (which was when i was with my dying mother, and Frans perfectly knew that). So i said i was not interested to continue this role unless those d-i team member who believe debian would be better off without me, and that i was no irreplacable, and who happily joined in in my expulsion request, at least apologized for the hurt they did me during the expulsion request. Less than a few minutes after this came Franz mail officializing my expulsion from the d-i team, and searching for contributors, contributors who failed to show up since then i notice, and a few days after the powerpc d-i cds broke. So, please tell me how this whole process can be seen as anything else but kicking me out, or how it could be called a 'misunderstanding' as some did ? Friendly, Sven Luther -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
Sven Luther wrote: > On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 05:10:17PM +0200, Rene Engelhard wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Sven Luther wrote: > > > On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 04:52:09PM +0200, Andreas Barth wrote: > > > > * Sven Luther ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [060427 15:05]: > > > > > Andreas, do you have an explanation of why d-i commit access was > > > > > taken from > > > > > me, and why i find out only now as i was going to fix the issue ? > > > > > > > > http://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2006/03/msg01075.html sounds like > > > > you stepped back, and > > > > http://lists.debian.org/debian-powerpc/2006/03/msg00490.html confirms > > > > that. > > > > > > I stepped back from d-i powerpc port maintainer, not as d-i contributor. > > > > So there apparently was a misunderstanding. [...] > who was kicked out you mean ? ^^ [...] Please decide. Regards, Rene -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 05:10:17PM +0200, Rene Engelhard wrote: > Hi, > > Sven Luther wrote: > > On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 04:52:09PM +0200, Andreas Barth wrote: > > > * Sven Luther ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [060427 15:05]: > > > > Andreas, do you have an explanation of why d-i commit access was taken > > > > from > > > > me, and why i find out only now as i was going to fix the issue ? > > > > > > http://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2006/03/msg01075.html sounds like > > > you stepped back, and > > > http://lists.debian.org/debian-powerpc/2006/03/msg00490.html confirms > > > that. > > > > I stepped back from d-i powerpc port maintainer, not as d-i contributor. > > So there apparently was a misunderstanding. No, there was a deliberate intention for revenge and hurting. I doubt any of the other d-i contributors commit right where removed when they stopped contributing, and there must be over a 100 such dormant contributors by now. > > Also, i don't believe there is any justification for taking away svn commit > > access except when there was a clear misuse of it being made. > > > > So, basically, you are saying that it is ok to take commit right away > > because > > of personal dislike situations like apparently happened here ? > > It is OK to remove svn access for a person which stepped down from d-i > activity (see above) imho, yes. who was kicked out you mean ? > > Again, i ask you, what possible reason where there to take svn commit access > > away from me ? > > See above. That is no reply. I don't believe such was done in any of the other previous cases, at least not without months of waiting and at least a ping tentative. So tell me, could this really be interpreted as anythind else than a tentative to get ride of me ? Friendly, Sven Luther -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
Hi, Sven Luther wrote: > On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 04:52:09PM +0200, Andreas Barth wrote: > > * Sven Luther ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [060427 15:05]: > > > Andreas, do you have an explanation of why d-i commit access was taken > > > from > > > me, and why i find out only now as i was going to fix the issue ? > > > > http://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2006/03/msg01075.html sounds like > > you stepped back, and > > http://lists.debian.org/debian-powerpc/2006/03/msg00490.html confirms > > that. > > I stepped back from d-i powerpc port maintainer, not as d-i contributor. So there apparently was a misunderstanding. > Also, i don't believe there is any justification for taking away svn commit > access except when there was a clear misuse of it being made. > > So, basically, you are saying that it is ok to take commit right away because > of personal dislike situations like apparently happened here ? It is OK to remove svn access for a person which stepped down from d-i activity (see above) imho, yes. > Again, i ask you, what possible reason where there to take svn commit access > away from me ? See above. Regards, Rene -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 04:52:09PM +0200, Andreas Barth wrote: > * Sven Luther ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [060427 15:05]: > > Andreas, do you have an explanation of why d-i commit access was taken from > > me, and why i find out only now as i was going to fix the issue ? > > http://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2006/03/msg01075.html sounds like > you stepped back, and > http://lists.debian.org/debian-powerpc/2006/03/msg00490.html confirms > that. I stepped back from d-i powerpc port maintainer, not as d-i contributor. Also, i don't believe there is any justification for taking away svn commit access except when there was a clear misuse of it being made. So, basically, you are saying that it is ok to take commit right away because of personal dislike situations like apparently happened here ? Again, i ask you, what possible reason where there to take svn commit access away from me ? Friendly, Sven Luther -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
* Sven Luther ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [060427 15:05]: > Andreas, do you have an explanation of why d-i commit access was taken from > me, and why i find out only now as i was going to fix the issue ? http://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2006/03/msg01075.html sounds like you stepped back, and http://lists.debian.org/debian-powerpc/2006/03/msg00490.html confirms that. Cheers, Andi -- http://home.arcor.de/andreas-barth/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 03:17:08PM +0200, Mike Hommey wrote: > On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 03:07:36PM +0200, Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 02:27:35PM +0200, Mike Hommey wrote: > > > On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 02:19:34PM +0200, Sven Luther > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > I was going to fix it, maybe it would have been fixed already, but no, > > > > the d-i team decided this otherwise. > > > > > > You can't *commit*, but you still can send patches, can't you ? > > > > What good is a patch in the BTS, if there is nobody on the other side to > > apply > > it ? > > http://lists.debian.org/debian-release/2006/04/msg00178.html Why does this come now only after the brokeness was there for almost 4 weeks, and activity only happened after i made a fuss over it ? This was already the case with the yaird problem, and going a bit farther away, Ethan's rejection of the yaboot/amiga-partition-table patch. And notice, yaboot is currently orphaned, and nobody has shown up and took it over, mol is currently in sad dissaray, and people go about and expulse and kick the few powerpc porters we have remaining. So, things clearly look grim for debian/powerpc. Friendly, Sven Luther -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 03:15:17PM +0200, Michael Banck wrote: > On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 02:19:34PM +0200, Sven Luther wrote: > > Because they kicked out the powerpc porter ? Do you not think this is reason > > enough to consider debian for powerpc dead > > No, this is only reason enough to look for a new powerpc porter. Sure, which they did do when they kicked me out, over a month ago. They claimed they had found some, but reality proves that this is not the case. Friendly, Sven Luther -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
On Thu, 27 Apr 2006, Andreas Barth wrote: > > I would have expected to see some mention of it on the list so people who > > don't stay on IRC (and people who are only interested in the ppc architecture) > > would know what was going on. > > I never doubted that. :) > I don't think you understand. There was not a peep on the list about anything being up with the daily image until Sven explicitely stated it. I would have expected the maintainer or others privy to the situation to have said something earlier, along the lines of: "Hey folks, we know the daily image is busted and we are working on it. We'll let you know when it's fixed so don't bug us". That nothing was said concerns me, because it implies that either no one else noticed or no one thought anyone on the list cared, which is bad in either case. I don't mean to belabor the point, I just want to have some idea what is going on from the ppc perspective, since sometimes it is difficult to glean the basic status from the developer list or the other lists. Thanks again, Toni --- Toni Harbaugh-Blackford [EMAIL PROTECTED] System Administrator Advanced Biomedical Computing Center (ABCC) National Cancer Institute Contractor - SAIC/Frederick -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
Sven, When will you learn you don't have to reply to every single message in a thread ? Frank's and my message were the exact same. Why do you feel you have to answer twice to the same thing ? And please stop this "Friendly" signature, it's pathetic and actually sounds stupid. Mike On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 03:13:53PM +0200, Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 02:40:08PM +0200, Frank Küster wrote: > > Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > >> Of course, best that could happen now would be if someone just takes up > > >> the loose ends, and tries to fix the issues - and I hope someone just > > >> does. > > > > > > Yeah, problem is we where already there a month ago, and see what > > > happened. > > > > > > I was going to fix it, maybe it would have been fixed already, but no, > > > the d-i > > > team decided this otherwise. > > > > Can't you provide a patch nevertheless? Let's see what they do with it... > > That is not the issue. These are the same people who have been bashing me for > over a year, and happily joined in with Andres expulsion request at the first > occasion, and said that i was not irreplacable and that debian would be better > off without me. So i was silent for some time, and now i notice that not only > is the build broken for almost a month, but they took away my possibility to > fix it. > > This is a worse problem, where some guys believe they have dictatorial control > on who can or cannot do something in debian, and act out of personal revenge > to hurt those they dislike. I am seriously starting to think that the debian > project would be better off since peopel like that. I already know too many > people who are being stopped from providing useful contributions out of no > good reason, and i believe that after almost 8 year of debian contributions, > and being one of the main powerpc maintainer these past years, i deserve > something more than that. > > Friendly, > > Sven Luther > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 03:07:36PM +0200, Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 02:27:35PM +0200, Mike Hommey wrote: > > On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 02:19:34PM +0200, Sven Luther > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I was going to fix it, maybe it would have been fixed already, but no, > > > the d-i team decided this otherwise. > > > > You can't *commit*, but you still can send patches, can't you ? > > What good is a patch in the BTS, if there is nobody on the other side to apply > it ? http://lists.debian.org/debian-release/2006/04/msg00178.html Mike -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 02:40:08PM +0200, Frank Küster wrote: > Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> Of course, best that could happen now would be if someone just takes up > >> the loose ends, and tries to fix the issues - and I hope someone just > >> does. > > > > Yeah, problem is we where already there a month ago, and see what happened. > > > > I was going to fix it, maybe it would have been fixed already, but no, the > > d-i > > team decided this otherwise. > > Can't you provide a patch nevertheless? Let's see what they do with it... That is not the issue. These are the same people who have been bashing me for over a year, and happily joined in with Andres expulsion request at the first occasion, and said that i was not irreplacable and that debian would be better off without me. So i was silent for some time, and now i notice that not only is the build broken for almost a month, but they took away my possibility to fix it. This is a worse problem, where some guys believe they have dictatorial control on who can or cannot do something in debian, and act out of personal revenge to hurt those they dislike. I am seriously starting to think that the debian project would be better off since peopel like that. I already know too many people who are being stopped from providing useful contributions out of no good reason, and i believe that after almost 8 year of debian contributions, and being one of the main powerpc maintainer these past years, i deserve something more than that. Friendly, Sven Luther -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 02:19:34PM +0200, Sven Luther wrote: > Because they kicked out the powerpc porter ? Do you not think this is reason > enough to consider debian for powerpc dead No, this is only reason enough to look for a new powerpc porter. Michael -- "Zu Bundeswehrzeiten hab ich mir die tollsten Erklärungsversuche anhören müssen, wie welche Gegenstände rein zufällig und zwangsläufig ins Rectum gekommen sind. Schwer, dabei ernst zu bleiben..." -- Dr. Joachim Neudert -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 02:27:35PM +0200, Mike Hommey wrote: > On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 02:19:34PM +0200, Sven Luther > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I was going to fix it, maybe it would have been fixed already, but no, > > the d-i team decided this otherwise. > > You can't *commit*, but you still can send patches, can't you ? What good is a patch in the BTS, if there is nobody on the other side to apply it ? Still, there is a worse problem here than just svn commit access, and i think it is my duty as DD to inform the powerpc community of how things stand, since it is clear nobody else will talk about this. Friendly, Sven Luther -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 02:53:07PM +0200, Andreas Barth wrote: > * Toni L. Harbaugh-Blackford [Contr] ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [060427 14:38]: > > I don't think you understand. There was not a peep on the list about > > anything being up with the daily image until Sven explicitely stated it. > > I would have expected the maintainer or others privy to the situation > > to have said something earlier, along the lines of: > > [...] > > Yes, that is what I assumed what happened, and that is what really > worries me. But I don't think it is as bad as Sven tries to make it look > like - it is currently at a level where it could be repaired, and where > we could still prevent that bad things remain. Andreas, do you have an explanation of why d-i commit access was taken from me, and why i find out only now as i was going to fix the issue ? Does this together with the poor state of the d-i powerpc images not clearly show that nobody is in charge anymore (or at least nobody who will notice or have the time to fix it or even ask for help if he doesn't has the time) ? And in light of those two facts, can you please tell me again with a straight face that i am over-reacting ? friendly, Sven Luther -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
* Toni L. Harbaugh-Blackford [Contr] ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [060427 14:38]: > I don't think you understand. There was not a peep on the list about > anything being up with the daily image until Sven explicitely stated it. > I would have expected the maintainer or others privy to the situation > to have said something earlier, along the lines of: > [...] Yes, that is what I assumed what happened, and that is what really worries me. But I don't think it is as bad as Sven tries to make it look like - it is currently at a level where it could be repaired, and where we could still prevent that bad things remain. Cheers, Andi -- http://home.arcor.de/andreas-barth/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Of course, best that could happen now would be if someone just takes up >> the loose ends, and tries to fix the issues - and I hope someone just >> does. > > Yeah, problem is we where already there a month ago, and see what happened. > > I was going to fix it, maybe it would have been fixed already, but no, the d-i > team decided this otherwise. Can't you provide a patch nevertheless? Let's see what they do with it... Regards, Frank -- Frank Küster Single Molecule Spectroscopy, Protein Folding @ Inst. f. Biochemie, Univ. Zürich Debian Developer (teTeX)
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 02:19:34PM +0200, Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I was going to fix it, maybe it would have been fixed already, but no, > the d-i team decided this otherwise. You can't *commit*, but you still can send patches, can't you ? Mike -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 01:59:54PM +0200, Andreas Barth wrote: > * Toni L. Harbaugh-Blackford [Contr] ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [060427 13:53]: > > On Thu, 27 Apr 2006, Andreas Barth wrote: > > > * Sven Luther ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [060427 13:23]: > > > > Dear fellow powerpc folk, this clearly means that the debian support > > for > > > > powerpc is dead or almost so, and i strongly recomend you to go find > > another > > > > distribution to run which cares a bit more about the powerpc > > architecture. > > > > > > I'd rather prefer if you don't overexegerate. > > > > I'm not sure he's exagerating. There has been a grave silence about the > > daily images not building, for anyone who doesn't access IRC anyway. > > I'm not too happy either to become aware of that issue in this way - but > well, I think his cited words "debian support for powerpc is dead or > almost so" and his recommendation people to change away from debian do > way more harm than the images not building the images for a month, and I > also don't really see any ground for these words. Because they kicked out the powerpc porter ? Do you not think this is reason enough to consider debian for powerpc dead, at least with the current set of d-i team members ? > Of course, best that could happen now would be if someone just takes up > the loose ends, and tries to fix the issues - and I hope someone just > does. Yeah, problem is we where already there a month ago, and see what happened. I was going to fix it, maybe it would have been fixed already, but no, the d-i team decided this otherwise. Friendly, Sven Luther -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
* Toni L. Harbaugh-Blackford [Contr] ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [060427 13:53]: > On Thu, 27 Apr 2006, Andreas Barth wrote: > > * Sven Luther ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [060427 13:23]: > > > Dear fellow powerpc folk, this clearly means that the debian support for > > > powerpc is dead or almost so, and i strongly recomend you to go find > another > > > distribution to run which cares a bit more about the powerpc > architecture. > > > > I'd rather prefer if you don't overexegerate. > > I'm not sure he's exagerating. There has been a grave silence about the > daily images not building, for anyone who doesn't access IRC anyway. I'm not too happy either to become aware of that issue in this way - but well, I think his cited words "debian support for powerpc is dead or almost so" and his recommendation people to change away from debian do way more harm than the images not building the images for a month, and I also don't really see any ground for these words. Of course, best that could happen now would be if someone just takes up the loose ends, and tries to fix the issues - and I hope someone just does. > I would have expected to see some mention of it on the list so people who > don't stay on IRC (and people who are only interested in the ppc architecture) > would know what was going on. I never doubted that. :) Cheers, Andi -- http://home.arcor.de/andreas-barth/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
On Thu, 27 Apr 2006, Andreas Barth wrote: > * Sven Luther ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [060427 13:23]: > > On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 12:53:12PM +0200, Frans Pop wrote: > > > On Thursday 27 April 2006 12:14, Sven Luther wrote: > > > > 1) daily build business card and netinst isos are failing to build > > > > since april 1, which means they don't include the broadcom tg3 module > > > > at all, and are thus not really usable for installs at this time. > > > > > > Reason is that prep and chrp d-i cdrom images are failing in daily d-i > > > builds. This results in debian-cd not being able to find a file needed > > > for mkisofs. > > > > > > I understand from comments on IRC that this is due to a kernel issue? > > > > Oh fun, i don't have any commit access to the d-i repo anymore, so i can't > > even fix this issue myself. This clearly shows the pettiness of the d-i team, > > i am disgusted. ... > > > > Dear fellow powerpc folk, this clearly means that the debian support for > > powerpc is dead or almost so, and i strongly recomend you to go find another > > distribution to run which cares a bit more about the powerpc architecture. > > I'd rather prefer if you don't overexegerate. I'm not sure he's exagerating. There has been a grave silence about the daily images not building, for anyone who doesn't access IRC anyway. I would have expected to see some mention of it on the list so people who don't stay on IRC (and people who are only interested in the ppc architecture) would know what was going on. Thanks, Toni --- Toni Harbaugh-Blackford [EMAIL PROTECTED] System Administrator Advanced Biomedical Computing Center (ABCC) National Cancer Institute Contractor - SAIC/Frederick -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 01:30:17PM +0200, Andreas Barth wrote: > > Oh fun, i don't have any commit access to the d-i repo anymore, so i can't > > even fix this issue myself. This clearly shows the pettiness of the d-i > > team, > > i am disgusted. ... > > > > Dear fellow powerpc folk, this clearly means that the debian support for > > powerpc is dead or almost so, and i strongly recomend you to go find another > > distribution to run which cares a bit more about the powerpc architecture. > > I'd rather prefer if you don't overexegerate. No i don't think i am overexagerating. The installer images are broken since over a month, the d-i folk kicked me out after having joined Andres's wolf-hunt, while i was in personal distress over my mother's sickness and subsequent death, and now they are failing to take their responsabilities and are screwing our powerpc users. They are not worth to be debian developpers, if you would ask me, and in any case, they are not true to the social contract. Friendly, Sven Luther -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 01:30:17PM +0200, Andreas Barth wrote: > I'd rather prefer if you don't overexegerate. Yes, please restrict yourself to the levels of exaggeration which are appropriate for Debian mailing lists. ;-) SCNR, Richard -- __ _ |_) /| Richard Atterer | GnuPG key: 888354F7 | \/¯| http://atterer.net | 08A9 7B7D 3D13 3EF2 3D25 D157 79E6 F6DC 8883 54F7 ¯ '` ¯ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
* Sven Luther ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [060427 13:23]: > On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 12:53:12PM +0200, Frans Pop wrote: > > On Thursday 27 April 2006 12:14, Sven Luther wrote: > > > 1) daily build business card and netinst isos are failing to build > > > since april 1, which means they don't include the broadcom tg3 module > > > at all, and are thus not really usable for installs at this time. > > > > Reason is that prep and chrp d-i cdrom images are failing in daily d-i > > builds. This results in debian-cd not being able to find a file needed > > for mkisofs. > > > > I understand from comments on IRC that this is due to a kernel issue? > > Oh fun, i don't have any commit access to the d-i repo anymore, so i can't > even fix this issue myself. This clearly shows the pettiness of the d-i team, > i am disgusted. ... > > Dear fellow powerpc folk, this clearly means that the debian support for > powerpc is dead or almost so, and i strongly recomend you to go find another > distribution to run which cares a bit more about the powerpc architecture. I'd rather prefer if you don't overexegerate. Cheers, Andi -- http://home.arcor.de/andreas-barth/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#365010: Xserver G5 usb keyboard not loaded ...
On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 12:53:12PM +0200, Frans Pop wrote: > On Thursday 27 April 2006 12:14, Sven Luther wrote: > > 1) daily build business card and netinst isos are failing to build > > since april 1, which means they don't include the broadcom tg3 module > > at all, and are thus not really usable for installs at this time. > > Reason is that prep and chrp d-i cdrom images are failing in daily d-i > builds. This results in debian-cd not being able to find a file needed > for mkisofs. > > I understand from comments on IRC that this is due to a kernel issue? Oh fun, i don't have any commit access to the d-i repo anymore, so i can't even fix this issue myself. This clearly shows the pettiness of the d-i team, i am disgusted. ... Dear fellow powerpc folk, this clearly means that the debian support for powerpc is dead or almost so, and i strongly recomend you to go find another distribution to run which cares a bit more about the powerpc architecture. Friendly, Sven Luther -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
