Re: Bug#374373: ITP: googleearth-package -- utility for automatically building a Google Earth Debian package
El domingo, 18 de junio de 2006 a las 22:03:32 -0500, Ron Johnson escribía: When I tried to install it as root (using su - from an xterm window), it complained about not being able to find DISPLAY. Unlike Sun Java Macromedia Flash, it uses a GUI installer. I've found sux works beautifully :-) -- Jacobo Tarrío | http://jacobo.tarrio.org/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#374373: ITP: googleearth-package -- utility for automatically building a Google Earth Debian package
El domingo, 18 de junio de 2006 a las 22:03:32 -0500, Ron Johnson escrib?a: When I tried to install it as root (using su - from an xterm window), it complained about not being able to find DISPLAY. Unlike Sun Java Macromedia Flash, it uses a GUI installer. I've found sux works beautifully :-) People, are you serious about allowing to run 'foreign' installer as root? Ok, I agree that it's ok to trust installer source that they will not install a backdoor into your system. However, chances that they will write to directories that should be under control of package manager, or write to system files that should be under control of package manager or appropriate update scripts or administrator's hands - are very high. IMHO, running 'foreign' installers as root is *the* whay to break your debian system. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#374373: ITP: googleearth-package -- utility for automatically building a Google Earth Debian package
Nikita V. Youshchenko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Ok, I agree that it's ok to trust installer source that they will not install a backdoor into your system. However, chances that they will write to directories that should be under control of package manager, or write to system files that should be under control of package manager or appropriate update scripts or administrator's hands - are very high. But AFAICT (I analyized the package quite closely, but neve did install it) Google Earth's Installer does not do this. IMHO, running 'foreign' installers as root is *the* whay to break your debian system. Normally, yes. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#374373: ITP: googleearth-package -- utility for automatically building a Google Earth Debian package
Wesley J. Landaker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Joe Smith wrote: Is this really needed? Google was very careful in making sure that the package installs in /usr/local, and does not interfere with the system. Normally the main reason why a debian package is better than what upsteam distributed is because using upstreams packages will mess with stuff it should not touch. Well, it doesn't install in /usr/local (by default, you can get it there) but in a user's home directory. Actually, perhaps if you run it as root it will pick /usr/local by default, but I didn't try that (I don't usually run things as root, even stuff from Google). Google Earth takes care of its own updates by prompting the user, and allowing them to download and run the new installer (or at least it does on windows, and I can't imagine why the linux version would not). Needing to use a *-package utility prevents automatic updates anyway, and does not simplify installation much if any. So the only real advantage would seem to be that it would make Google Earth easier to uninstall. Well I guess it simplifies pushing updates out to a bunch of workstations, but in most cases users should just download the the .bin and run it. Apparently, the easier to uninstall is a bigger deal to me than it is to you. So this utility may not be for you. There has only been one version out for GNU/Linux as far as I'm aware, so I'm not sure anyone knows exactly how the updater works. Seeing how their software is packaged, I actually don't see any way that the Debianized version would break updates if run as root (which would have to be the case anyway unless every user has their own version) but personally I don't like programs that try to update themselves outside of package management. I agree that programs that use mechanisms other than the package manager to manage files can be a real pain, but remeber that a GNU/linux system is not guarenteed to have any package manager at all. On such a system self-updates can be quite usefull. Also remeber that /usr/local is not managed by package managers, so programs that live there can manage their files however they want without any problems. I'm pretty sure that it simply downloads and run the new installer. This is what it does on windows. The problem is that if a user uses the installer, and installs into /usr (like the debian package presumably does) then unless the debian package puts everything in exactly the same spot the installer would have, then it will not be possible to fully uninstall using the debs. Anyway, there are a few advantages: * Once you've made the package, you can install on multiple machines easily. * It's much cleaner, as you have a managed Debian package to install/uninstall. * In-program updates are optional (run as root and do them, or don't). * If you don't like doing it this way, nobody is going to make you do it. =) But the most important one of all is: I've found it useful, I've got it working[1], and I'd like to give others an opportunity to use it if they want to. Fair enough. Ideal would be to recive permission from upstream to simply repackage the files in the tarballs into a non-free deb, possibly showing the EULA as a debconf question of the highest priority. Preseeding the EULA question could easilly be seen as pre-accepting the EULA, so that should not be a problem. With a package like that, the only potiential problem is the programs internal update mechanism. Perhaps Google would consider adding a way to remove/hide the internal update choice. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#374373: ITP: googleearth-package -- utility for automatically building a Google Earth Debian package
Wesley J. Landaker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Package: wnpp Severity: wishlist Owner: Wesley J. Landaker [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Package name: googleearth-package Upstream Author : Wesley J. Landaker [EMAIL PROTECTED] * URL : (native package) * License : GPL Description : utility for automatically building a Google Earth Debian package Google Earth is a great program now available for GNU/Linux, but sadly is both non-free and non-distributable. For those who wish to run it on their Debian system, but wish it to be managed by the normal Debian packaging system, this program will assist in building a local Debian package in a similar fashion to java-package. This package *itself* contains absolutely no code from Google and is 100% free. (For the curious, this is appropriately destined for contrib.) Is this really needed? Google was very careful in making sure that the package installs in /usr/local, and does not interfere with the system. Normally the main reason why a debian package is better than what upsteam distributed is because using upstreams packages will mess with stuff it should not touch. The reason java-package is needed is that upstream's packages are not well behaved, and install into /usr, potentially causeing problems if it decides to edit the files of other packages. Google Earth takes care of its own updates by prompting the user, and allowing them to download and run the new installer (or at least it does on windows, and I can't imagine why the linux version would not). Needing to use a *-package utility prevents automatic updates anyway, and does not simplify installation much if any. So the only real advantage would seem to be that it would make Google Earth easier to uninstall. Well I guess it simplifies pushing updates out to a bunch of workstations, but in most cases users should just download the the .bin and run it. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#374373: ITP: googleearth-package -- utility for automatically building a Google Earth Debian package
Joe Smith wrote: Wesley J. Landaker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Package: wnpp Severity: wishlist Owner: Wesley J. Landaker [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Package name: googleearth-package Upstream Author : Wesley J. Landaker [EMAIL PROTECTED] * URL : (native package) * License : GPL Description : utility for automatically building a Google Earth Debian package Google Earth is a great program now available for GNU/Linux, but sadly is both non-free and non-distributable. For those who wish to run it on their Debian system, but wish it to be managed by the normal Debian packaging system, this program will assist in building a local Debian package in a similar fashion to java-package. This package *itself* contains absolutely no code from Google and is 100% free. (For the curious, this is appropriately destined for contrib.) Is this really needed? Google was very careful in making sure that the package installs in /usr/local, and does not interfere with the system. Normally the main reason why a debian package is better than what upsteam distributed is because using upstreams packages will mess with stuff it should not touch. The reason java-package is needed is that upstream's packages are not well behaved, and install into /usr, potentially causeing problems if it decides to edit the files of other packages. Google Earth takes care of its own updates by prompting the user, and allowing them to download and run the new installer (or at least it does on windows, and I can't imagine why the linux version would not). Needing to use a *-package utility prevents automatic updates anyway, and does not simplify installation much if any. So the only real advantage would seem to be that it would make Google Earth easier to uninstall. Well I guess it simplifies pushing updates out to a bunch of workstations, but in most cases users should just download the the .bin and run it. What's more, google earth can be installed without root privileges and installs into a users home directory, thus the systems administrator doesn't even need to install it, the user can signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Bug#374373: ITP: googleearth-package -- utility for automatically building a Google Earth Debian package
Joe Smith wrote: Is this really needed? Google was very careful in making sure that the package installs in /usr/local, and does not interfere with the system. Normally the main reason why a debian package is better than what upsteam distributed is because using upstreams packages will mess with stuff it should not touch. Well, it doesn't install in /usr/local (by default, you can get it there) but in a user's home directory. Actually, perhaps if you run it as root it will pick /usr/local by default, but I didn't try that (I don't usually run things as root, even stuff from Google). Google Earth takes care of its own updates by prompting the user, and allowing them to download and run the new installer (or at least it does on windows, and I can't imagine why the linux version would not). Needing to use a *-package utility prevents automatic updates anyway, and does not simplify installation much if any. So the only real advantage would seem to be that it would make Google Earth easier to uninstall. Well I guess it simplifies pushing updates out to a bunch of workstations, but in most cases users should just download the the .bin and run it. Apparently, the easier to uninstall is a bigger deal to me than it is to you. So this utility may not be for you. There has only been one version out for GNU/Linux as far as I'm aware, so I'm not sure anyone knows exactly how the updater works. Seeing how their software is packaged, I actually don't see any way that the Debianized version would break updates if run as root (which would have to be the case anyway unless every user has their own version) but personally I don't like programs that try to update themselves outside of package management. Anyway, there are a few advantages: * Once you've made the package, you can install on multiple machines easily. * It's much cleaner, as you have a managed Debian package to install/uninstall. * In-program updates are optional (run as root and do them, or don't). * If you don't like doing it this way, nobody is going to make you do it. =) But the most important one of all is: I've found it useful, I've got it working[1], and I'd like to give others an opportunity to use it if they want to. [1] (almost working--I'm still tweaking it a bit, since I've only been working on it for a few hours) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#374373: ITP: googleearth-package -- utility for automatically building a Google Earth Debian package
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Benjamin Seidenberg wrote: Joe Smith wrote: Wesley J. Landaker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message Package: wnpp Severity: wishlist Owner: Wesley J. Landaker [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Package name: googleearth-package Upstream Author : Wesley J. Landaker [EMAIL PROTECTED] * URL : (native package) * License : GPL Description : utility for automatically building a Google Earth Debian package Google Earth is a great program now available for GNU/Linux, but sadly is both non-free and non-distributable. For those who wish to run it on their Debian system, but wish it to be managed by the normal Debian packaging system, this program will assist in building a local Debian package in a similar fashion to java-package. This package *itself* contains absolutely no code from Google and is 100% free. (For the curious, this is appropriately destined for contrib.) [snip] What's more, google earth can be installed without root privileges and installs into a users home directory, thus the systems administrator doesn't even need to install it, the user can When I tried to install it as root (using su - from an xterm window), it complained about not being able to find DISPLAY. Unlike Sun Java Macromedia Flash, it uses a GUI installer. Since many (most?) desktop users install apps from within su or sudo'ed xterm windows, how will you work around that? - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Is common sense really valid? For example, it is common sense to white-power racists that whites are superior to blacks, and that those with brown skins are mud people. However, that common sense is obviously wrong. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFElhQES9HxQb37XmcRArnhAJ97z8ewrNgL1NCwlTUPRNsoBlLhMgCguEMY /X96cCnAl3spFulff41Kllc= =d49o -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#374373: ITP: googleearth-package -- utility for automatically building a Google Earth Debian package
Joe Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Is this really needed? Google was very careful in making sure that the package installs in /usr/local, and does not interfere with the system. Normally the main reason why a debian package is better than what upsteam distributed is because using upstreams packages will mess with stuff it should not touch. I like installing from a debian package even when the upstream distributions a reasonable binary installation of their own. No matter how good the upstream, the debian package is almost always even easier, more consistent, and less to worry about. -Miles -- 自らを空にして、心を開く時、道は開かれる -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#374373: ITP: googleearth-package -- utility for automatically building a Google Earth Debian package
Wesley J. Landaker wrote: But the most important one of all is: I've found it useful, I've got it working[1], and I'd like to give others an opportunity to use it if they want to. [1] (almost working--I'm still tweaking it a bit, since I've only been working on it for a few hours) Does it use the loki installer as I read somewhere? I had been considering possibly adding loki support to alien as a package format (without generation support), which might be a nicer general solution. -- see shy jo signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#374373: ITP: googleearth-package -- utility for automatically building a Google Earth Debian package
On Sun, 2006-06-18 at 23:56 -0400, Joey Hess wrote: Wesley J. Landaker wrote: But the most important one of all is: I've found it useful, I've got it working[1], and I'd like to give others an opportunity to use it if they want to. [1] (almost working--I'm still tweaking it a bit, since I've only been working on it for a few hours) Does it use the loki installer as I read somewhere? I had been considering possibly adding loki support to alien as a package format (without generation support), which might be a nicer general solution. It uses makeself as the wrapper format (shell script+tar.bz2): http://packages.debian.org/unstable/utils/makeself Inside that is a setup.sh, which runs setup.gtk/gtk2, running strings -a on those files gives some loki_* functions, looks like it is using the loki system. The app itself seems to reside in 2 tarballs (data and program). -- bye, pabs http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Bug#374373: ITP: googleearth-package -- utility for automatically building a Google Earth Debian package
Ron Johnson wrote: Benjamin Seidenberg wrote: Joe Smith wrote: Wesley J. Landaker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message Package: wnpp Severity: wishlist Owner: Wesley J. Landaker [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Package name: googleearth-package Upstream Author : Wesley J. Landaker [EMAIL PROTECTED] * URL : (native package) * License : GPL Description : utility for automatically building a Google Earth Debian package Google Earth is a great program now available for GNU/Linux, but sadly is both non-free and non-distributable. For those who wish to run it on their Debian system, but wish it to be managed by the normal Debian packaging system, this program will assist in building a local Debian package in a similar fashion to java-package. This package *itself* contains absolutely no code from Google and is 100% free. (For the curious, this is appropriately destined for contrib.) [snip] What's more, google earth can be installed without root privileges and installs into a users home directory, thus the systems administrator doesn't even need to install it, the user can When I tried to install it as root (using su - from an xterm window), it complained about not being able to find DISPLAY. Unlike Sun Java Macromedia Flash, it uses a GUI installer. Since many (most?) desktop users install apps from within su or sudo'ed xterm windows, how will you work around that? If you don't use -, DISPLAY should be preserved. Ditto for sudo. Benjamin (Postscript: I almost replied to your sig, but decided i wasn't going to go there.) signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Bug#374373: ITP: googleearth-package -- utility for automatically building a Google Earth Debian package
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Benjamin Seidenberg wrote: Ron Johnson wrote: Benjamin Seidenberg wrote: Joe Smith wrote: Wesley J. Landaker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message [snip] When I tried to install it as root (using su - from an xterm window), it complained about not being able to find DISPLAY. Unlike Sun Java Macromedia Flash, it uses a GUI installer. Since many (most?) desktop users install apps from within su or sudo'ed xterm windows, how will you work around that? If you don't use -, DISPLAY should be preserved. Ditto for sudo. $ su -m Can dpkg emulate that? Benjamin (Postscript: I almost replied to your sig, but decided i wasn't going to go there.) Off-list replies always welcome. - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Is common sense really valid? For example, it is common sense to white-power racists that whites are superior to blacks, and that those with brown skins are mud people. However, that common sense is obviously wrong. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFEli8jS9HxQb37XmcRAmamAJ4pPciAOJ7WYk81IIl3eXbvNpPNZwCeJhjL W0pIBtbLPjVTw1jHpBP3hck= =Kkhq -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#374373: ITP: googleearth-package -- utility for automatically building a Google Earth Debian package
Paul Wise wrote: On Sun, 2006-06-18 at 23:56 -0400, Joey Hess wrote: Wesley J. Landaker wrote: But the most important one of all is: I've found it useful, I've got it working[1], and I'd like to give others an opportunity to use it if they want to. [1] (almost working--I'm still tweaking it a bit, since I've only been working on it for a few hours) Does it use the loki installer as I read somewhere? I had been considering possibly adding loki support to alien as a package format (without generation support), which might be a nicer general solution. It uses makeself as the wrapper format (shell script+tar.bz2): http://packages.debian.org/unstable/utils/makeself Inside that is a setup.sh, which runs setup.gtk/gtk2, running strings -a on those files gives some loki_* functions, looks like it is using the loki system. The app itself seems to reside in 2 tarballs (data and program). Well, having a unified installer that supported lots of stuff, including Google Earth, would be nice, and could possibly depricate this package. But for now, I've finished the first version of this utility that just packages Google Earth and just uploaded it. The package includes the following niceities: * Makes a nice, clean googleearth package with no interaction * Installs things in the normal, proper FHS places * Does the menu entry and MIME registration the Debian way * Dependencies are set correctly, including shlibdeps and fonts * Installs the upstream license into the standards Debian spot * Can use a pre-downloaded version, or can attempt to download automatically And the following rough edges: * It spews a lot of output to the screen while building * It uses more diskspace during build than is strictly necessary * The package it generates could use some minor improvements Anyway, the standards it-works-for-me applies, but I've tested it on both etch and sid with no problems. Patches and helpful suggestions are welcome. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
