Re: Coming to closure on ae...
Dale Scheetz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The reason I feel compelled to ask is that I will be creating two new > names: xvi and xae. xvi, intuitively, seems to refer to an x aware version of vi (elvis or vim). How about xaevi? -- Raul -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Coming to closure on ae...
On Sat, 2 May 1998, Raul Miller wrote: > Dale Scheetz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The reason I feel compelled to ask is that I will be creating two new > > names: xvi and xae. > > xvi, intuitively, seems to refer to an x aware version of vi (elvis or > vim). How about xaevi? A bit bulky ;-) There is already a /bin/vi script that executes ae as vi, as a "least surprise" issue. When running "vi" in an xterm, the help screen would indicate the program to use instead, so I don't see any problems with "expectation". I'm also leaning toward aex and vix, as they will appear in the directory together with their nonx partners. On another part of the problem. I just tried to use a symlink to execute ae with the correct .rc file. I cd'd to the /bin directory (where ae resides) and typed: ln -s '/bin/ae -f /etc/aex.rc' xae and, while it seemed to build the link I desired (it looks good with ls -l) when I try to execute xae, bash tells me the file is not found. Any idea what I am doing wrong? Thanks, Dwarf -- _-_-_-_-_- Author of "The Debian Linux User's Guide" _-_-_-_-_-_- aka Dale Scheetz Phone: 1 (850) 656-9769 Flexible Software 11000 McCrackin Road e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tallahassee, FL 32308 _-_-_-_-_-_- If you don't see what you want, just ask _-_-_-_-_-_-_- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Coming to closure on ae...
Dale Scheetz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > ln -s '/bin/ae -f /etc/aex.rc' xae > > and, while it seemed to build the link I desired (it looks good with ls > -l) when I try to execute xae, bash tells me the file is not found. > > Any idea what I am doing wrong? That's only going to work if you have a directory in /bin named 'ae -f ', which has a file named 'aex.rc' in its etc subdirectory. Basically, nothing cares what a symlink says, except that it be a valid reference to a file. -- Raul -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Coming to closure on ae...
On Sat, 2 May 1998, Raul Miller wrote: > Dale Scheetz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > ln -s '/bin/ae -f /etc/aex.rc' xae > > > > and, while it seemed to build the link I desired (it looks good with ls > > -l) when I try to execute xae, bash tells me the file is not found. > > > > Any idea what I am doing wrong? > > That's only going to work if you have a directory in /bin named 'ae -f ', > which has a file named 'aex.rc' in its etc subdirectory. > > Basically, nothing cares what a symlink says, except that it be > a valid reference to a file. > I had heard somewhere that I could make a symlink that called the file with parameters. I take it from your comments above that this is not true? >From your comments it sounds like bash is reporting the file not found for xae, but the file it can't find is '/bin/ae -f /etc/aex.rc'? I can do the same thing in a shell script, but this looked simpler and easier to manage...oh well ;-) Thanks, Dwarf -- _-_-_-_-_- Author of "The Debian Linux User's Guide" _-_-_-_-_-_- aka Dale Scheetz Phone: 1 (850) 656-9769 Flexible Software 11000 McCrackin Road e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tallahassee, FL 32308 _-_-_-_-_-_- If you don't see what you want, just ask _-_-_-_-_-_-_- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Coming to closure on ae...
Dale Scheetz wrote:... >There doesn't seem to be a "reliable" method for determining whether or >not you are in an xterm. Any method so far suggested has "natural" >configuration situations that break the method. When you start an xterm, TERM is set to xterm; why not test for that? The trouble with using different executables is that they will only get run when the user chooses. I have found ae popping up unexpectedly after I have removed elvis. Because I didn't choose to load it, it came up in its default state. If someone manages to get an xterm where TERM is set to something different, it won't work, but it seems a bit unreasonable for anyone to do such a thing. -- Oliver Elphick[EMAIL PROTECTED] Isle of Wight http://www.lfix.co.uk/oliver PGP key from public servers; key ID 32B8FAA1 Come to me, all you who labour and are heavily laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me; for I am meek and lowly in heart, and you shall find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.(Matthew 11: 28-30) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Coming to closure on ae...
On Sat, May 02, 1998 at 11:42:39PM +0200, Oliver Elphick wrote: > >There doesn't seem to be a "reliable" method for determining whether or > >not you are in an xterm. Any method so far suggested has "natural" > >configuration situations that break the method. > > When you start an xterm, TERM is set to xterm; why not test for that? Test $DISPLAY, it's the Right Way to test for X. pgp4a4c5Tbig9.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Coming to closure on ae...
On Sat, 2 May 1998, Oliver Elphick wrote: > Dale Scheetz wrote:... > >There doesn't seem to be a "reliable" method for determining whether or > >not you are in an xterm. Any method so far suggested has "natural" > >configuration situations that break the method. > > When you start an xterm, TERM is set to xterm; why not test for that? > The trouble with using different executables is that they will only > get run when the user chooses. I have found ae popping up unexpectedly > after I have removed elvis. Because I didn't choose to load it, it came > up in its default state. When you remove the last vi alternative, ae is run by a script in /bin with the ae2vi.rc file. The current release is broken in this reguard, but the next one will be fixed to continue to emulate vi. > > If someone manages to get an xterm where TERM is set to something different, > it won't work, but it seems a bit unreasonable for anyone to do such > a thing. > Although the xterm does set itself up with TERM=xterm, there are any number of reasons for the TERM variable to be changed (vt100 comes to mind for various telnet targets), which makes this an unreliable way to deal with this. What would be wrong with having the "non-x" ae tell you in the help screen what you need to run to get xterm support? The need for this xterm support comes from folks who want to administer a base system remotely from a system using an xterm. This is a fairly restricted set of folks who should be "clued" enough to deal with the help message. Ya think? Dwarf -- _-_-_-_-_- Author of "The Debian Linux User's Guide" _-_-_-_-_-_- aka Dale Scheetz Phone: 1 (850) 656-9769 Flexible Software 11000 McCrackin Road e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tallahassee, FL 32308 _-_-_-_-_-_- If you don't see what you want, just ask _-_-_-_-_-_-_- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Coming to closure on ae...
Rev. Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Test $DISPLAY, it's the Right Way to test for X. But not the right way to test for xterm. -- Raul -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Coming to closure on ae...
Dale Scheetz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > What would be wrong with having the "non-x" ae tell you in the help > screen what you need to run to get xterm support? The need for this > xterm support comes from folks who want to administer a base system > remotely from a system using an xterm. This is a fairly restricted set > of folks who should be "clued" enough to deal with the help message. Should be sufficient to let them know that TERM=xterm is needed for xterm support. -- Raul -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Coming to closure on ae...
On Sat, 2 May 1998, Rev. Joseph Carter wrote: > On Sat, May 02, 1998 at 11:42:39PM +0200, Oliver Elphick wrote: > > >There doesn't seem to be a "reliable" method for determining whether or > > >not you are in an xterm. Any method so far suggested has "natural" > > >configuration situations that break the method. > > > > When you start an xterm, TERM is set to xterm; why not test for that? > > Test $DISPLAY, it's the Right Way to test for X. I see: in a console the environmental variable DISPLAY is not defined, but it will be in any X window. Sounds like it should work for ae's needs... Thanks, Dwarf -- _-_-_-_-_- Author of "The Debian Linux User's Guide" _-_-_-_-_-_- aka Dale Scheetz Phone: 1 (850) 656-9769 Flexible Software 11000 McCrackin Road e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tallahassee, FL 32308 _-_-_-_-_-_- If you don't see what you want, just ask _-_-_-_-_-_-_- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Coming to closure on ae...
On Sat, May 02, 1998 at 08:24:50PM -0400, Raul Miller wrote: > > Test $DISPLAY, it's the Right Way to test for X. > > But not the right way to test for xterm. If $DISPLAY is set you're either in an xterm, rxvt, or kvt. As far as ae would care, these are one and the same. pgpBM27t6J25C.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Coming to closure on ae...
> > > Test $DISPLAY, it's the Right Way to test for X. On Sat, May 02, 1998 at 08:24:50PM -0400, Raul Miller wrote: > > But not the right way to test for xterm. Rev. Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > If $DISPLAY is set you're either in an xterm, rxvt, or kvt. As far as ae > would care, these are one and the same. Yeah, Dale wrote me and pointed out that the problem wasn't the terminal emulation, but the function key bindings (which are outside the scope of something like a vt100 emulation). Though I must admit being confused why we can't have bindings for both the X and Console function keys. -- Raul -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Coming to closure on ae...
On Sat, 2 May 1998, Dale Scheetz wrote: > There doesn't seem to be a "reliable" method for determining whether or > not you are in an xterm. Any method so far suggested has "natural" > configuration situations that break the method. How about just checking for the existance of the DISPLAY variable? Anand. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Coming to closure on ae...
On Wed, 6 May 1998, Anand Kumria wrote: [snip] I guess I should learn to read faster since it has already been mentioned many times. Anand -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Coming to closure on ae...
On Wed, 6 May 1998, Anand Kumria wrote: > On Sat, 2 May 1998, Dale Scheetz wrote: > > > There doesn't seem to be a "reliable" method for determining whether or > > not you are in an xterm. Any method so far suggested has "natural" > > configuration situations that break the method. > > How about just checking for the existance of the DISPLAY variable? > What about trying to connext to X server, and if an error, do it in terminal mode. Bye Carlos Barros. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Coming to closure on ae...
On Tue, May 05, 1998 at 04:48:28PM +0300, Carlos Barros wrote: > On Wed, 6 May 1998, Anand Kumria wrote: > > > There doesn't seem to be a "reliable" method for determining whether or > > > not you are in an xterm. Any method so far suggested has "natural" > > > configuration situations that break the method. > > > > How about just checking for the existance of the DISPLAY variable? > > > > What about trying to connext to X server, and if an error, do it in > terminal mode. Which would result in opening X connections when working on the console. No, that's not funny, this already happened with urlview here, not funny to wait for your browser/editor while it runs somewhere on X. Regards, Joey -- / Martin Schulze * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * 26129 Oldenburg / / http://home.pages.de/~joey/ / VFS: no free i-nodes, contact Linus -- finlandia, Feb '94 / -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Coming to closure on ae...
On Tue, 5 May 1998, Martin Schulze wrote: > On Tue, May 05, 1998 at 04:48:28PM +0300, Carlos Barros wrote: > > On Wed, 6 May 1998, Anand Kumria wrote: > > > > There doesn't seem to be a "reliable" method for determining whether > > or > > > > not you are in an xterm. Any method so far suggested has "natural" > > > > configuration situations that break the method. > > > > > > How about just checking for the existance of the DISPLAY variable? > > > > > > > What about trying to connext to X server, and if an error, do it in > > terminal mode. > > Which would result in opening X connections when working on the > console. No, that's not funny, this already happened with urlview > here, not funny to wait for your browser/editor while it runs somewhere > on X. > That would be my expectation as well. As it turns out, thanks to some excellent help from Jim Mintha, I can now build an ae.rc file that works both in the console and in the xterm. I still have some details to work out, but the solution is complete at this point. I want to thank everyone who contributed ideas. You were all a great help to someone out in the middle of nowhere. Much appreciated. Luck, Dwarf -- _-_-_-_-_- Author of "The Debian Linux User's Guide" _-_-_-_-_-_- aka Dale Scheetz Phone: 1 (850) 656-9769 Flexible Software 11000 McCrackin Road e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tallahassee, FL 32308 _-_-_-_-_-_- If you don't see what you want, just ask _-_-_-_-_-_-_- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Coming to closure on ae...
On Tue, 5 May 1998, Carlos Barros wrote: > On Wed, 6 May 1998, Anand Kumria wrote: > > > On Sat, 2 May 1998, Dale Scheetz wrote: > > > > > There doesn't seem to be a "reliable" method for determining whether or > > > not you are in an xterm. Any method so far suggested has "natural" > > > configuration situations that break the method. > > > > How about just checking for the existance of the DISPLAY variable? > > > > What about trying to connext to X server, and if an error, do it in > terminal mode. That doesn't work properly when working from a console if you have access rights to a local X server. The same goes for testing the DISPLAY variable. The only other way I can come up with is checking the WINDOWID variable. Or look at how 'elvis' determines if it's running in X or not. I don't know how elvis checks for X, but it does this quite well. Remco -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Coming to closure on ae...
--On Wed, May 6, 1998 1:45 am +0200 "Remco Blaakmeer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tue, 5 May 1998, Carlos Barros wrote: > >> On Wed, 6 May 1998, Anand Kumria wrote: >> >> > On Sat, 2 May 1998, Dale Scheetz wrote: >> > >> > > There doesn't seem to be a "reliable" method for determining whether or >> > > not you are in an xterm. Any method so far suggested has "natural" >> > > configuration situations that break the method. >> > >> > How about just checking for the existance of the DISPLAY variable? >> > >> >> What about trying to connext to X server, and if an error, do it in >> terminal mode. > > That doesn't work properly when working from a console if you have access > rights to a local X server. The same goes for testing the DISPLAY > variable. The only other way I can come up with is checking the WINDOWID > variable. Or look at how 'elvis' determines if it's running in X or not. I > don't know how elvis checks for X, but it does this quite well. > The original problem has been resolved, but there is an important point here, I think. As far as possible, we shouldn't be playing games like this. It violates the principle of least surprise (IMHO). There are very few cases when an xterm should be handled differently from a console. If I unset DISPLAY in an xterm, I do it deliberately - I don't want X to be used by programs. If a clever program works out that X is there and uses it anyway, I'm going to be annoyed. Similarly, my vc sessions won't normally have a DISPLAY set. If they do, it's because I for some reason want to use X with my apps started from a console. I think an xterm should be exactly like a VC in almost every case I can bring to mind. Which is why this backspace/delete thing is so annoying... Yours, Jules /+---+-\ | Jelibean aka | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | 6 Evelyn Rd| | Jules aka | | Richmond, Surrey | | Julian Bean | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| TW9 2TF *UK* | ++---+-+ | War doesn't demonstrate who's right... just who's left. | | When privacy is outlawed... only the outlaws have privacy. | \--/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Coming to closure on ae...
On Tue, 5 May 1998, Martin Schulze wrote: > On Tue, May 05, 1998 at 04:48:28PM +0300, Carlos Barros wrote: > > What about trying to connext to X server, and if an error, do it in > > terminal mode. > > Which would result in opening X connections when working on the > console. No, that's not funny, this already happened with urlview > here, not funny to wait for your browser/editor while it runs somewhere > on X. > Well... if a connection is open, it means that the user has run the program under X or did tell the program to connect to a X server or a stale DISPLAY variable... and if that is not what the user want's is because a user error, or does not like to use it under X even if he is under X... I still dont see your point... --- if(XOpenDisplay()) xmode=true else xmode=false; --- That is what I propose. Bye Carlos Barros. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
